₦airaland Forum

sagenaija:
What do see of John 1: 3 - "All things came into existence through him, (i.e. Jesus) and apart from him NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence"?

MaxInDHouse:
When God created Adam and Eve only these two were here and it's through these two that all of us came into existence today there were no bicycles, cars, boats, aeroplane, helicopters, phones, televisions, computers and so many things we have today.
All these things came into existence through humans, no animal has ever made any advancement in technology, WHY? Because only human was created in the image of the Maker so they can't make anything.
So God created one creature in His image and this creature is responsible for all other creatures.
That's the import of what you're quoting!

sagenaija:
Can you explain what you mean by the HIGHLIGHTED?
Does the 'image' of God include omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence for example?

Btw, I hope you got what I pointed out that the "other" inserted in colossians in your NW translation is not in John 1:3

Your NW translation of John 1: 3 says "All things came into existence through him, (i.e. Jesus) and apart from him NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence".
"All things" means ALL THINGS doesn't it?
"Not even one thing" has been added for EMPHASIS by the Holy Spirit's inspiration to leave NO ONE in doubt as to what is being communicated here.
Not even Archangel Michael (who is included in 'All things') came into existence without Jesus.
In other words, the emphasis on Jesus being the uncaused cause of all that have been created is unmistakable here: don't you think?

sagenaija:
[size=6pt][/size]
MaxinDHouse, now you are being deceitful here.
The highlighted portion in your post was not referring to Adam, was it?
Is there any reference to Adam in the John 1 portion I have been highlighting or in the Colossians cross-referrenced?

You should understand that your consistent refusal to look at the passage and see it for what it says is a sign of dishonesty and a DISREGARD for Jehovah.

Secondly, you are deliberately not considering the context.

This is the issue:
1. In the first place was the Word. The Word was with God the Father, and the Word was himself God.
2. Through the Word all things were created.

Your NW translation of John 1: 3 says "All things came into existence through him, (i.e. Jesus) and apart from him NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence".

The only true and simple explanation of this is that the pre-exitent one (the first and the last - Rev. 22:13) is the uncaused cause of ALL creation.
Is the 'first and the last' a created being?
Do you remember from our previous discuss that the 'first and the last' is also in Isaiah 48?
And you know his identity in Revelation 22?
Would you want to separate the two?

sagenaija:
MaxinDHouse, Don't get ahead of yourself here.
You can see that rather than explain issues from the Bible texts I am presenting, you are running away to your preconceived position to answer. You're unable, or refusing, to give straightforward answers to simple questions.

When Jesus said "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."
Revelation 22: ‬13
What do you believe he means?

MaxInDHouse:
because He is willing to end it and He has the power to do so, that's the meaning of ALPHA and OMEGA, Jesus is not the one speaking there rather it's the One who sent Jesus to come and represent Him! Isaiah 44:6; 48:12; Revelations 1:8

sagenaija:
See this:
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
Revelation 22:16 NIV
Does it agree with your bolder above?

Revelation 1:1,his Father's angel,led by Jesus their leader..

That a child says "my Nanny," mean he owns the Nanny?
Use your brain, Sagenaija!!
Open your heart and eyes to see that @ Job38:7 & Revelation 22:16, Jesus is a bright morning Star, a creature of his Father. .

MaxInDHouse:
The word "FIRST" come to mind when we are talking about the beginning of something, Paul identified Jesus as the FIRST BORN of all creation just as Adam was the FIRST BORN of all humans. Paul even liken Jesus to Adam because both of them are the beginning of something, Jesus the beginning of God's work as an intelligent being in the spirit realms, Adam is the beginning of God's work as an intelligent being in the physical realms.

So there's nothing that can equate the created with the Almighty God who is the uncaused CAUSE, Jesus has a beginning but JEHOVAH has no beginning!

MaxInDHouse:
When God created Adam and Eve only these two were here and it's through these two that all of us came into existence today there were no bicycles, cars, boats, aeroplane, helicopters, phones, televisions, computers and so many things we have today.
All these things came into existence through humans, no animal has ever made any advancement in technology, WHY? Because only human was created in the image of the Maker so they can't make anything.
So God created one creature in His image and this creature is responsible for all other creatures.
That's the import of what you're quoting!

sagenaija:
[/size]
MaxinDHouse, now you are being deceitful here.
The highlighted portion in your post was not referring to Adam, was it?
Is there any reference to Adam in the John 1 portion I have been highlighting or in the Colossians cross-referrenced?

sagenaija:
[size=6pt]
You should understand that your consistent refusal to look at the passage and see it for what it says is a sign of dishonesty and a DISREGARD for Jehovah.

Secondly, you are deliberately not considering the context.

sagenaija:
This is the issue:
1. In the first place was the Word. The Word was with God the Father, and the Word was himself God.

sagenaija:
2. Through the Word all things were created.

Your NW translation of John 1: 3 says "All things came into existence through him, (i.e. Jesus) and apart from him NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence".

sagenaija:
The only true and simple explanation of this is that the pre-exitent one (the first and the last - Rev. 22:13) is the uncaused cause of ALL creation.
Is the 'first and the last' a created being?
Do you remember from our previous discuss that the 'first and the last' is also in Isaiah 48?
And you know his identity in Revelation 22?
Would you want to separate the two?

sagenaija:
Can you explain what you mean by the HIGHLIGHTED?
Does the 'image' of God include omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence for example?

Btw, I hope you got what I pointed out that the "other" inserted in colossians in your NW translation is not in John 1:3

sagenaija:
Your NW translation of John 1: 3 says "All things came into existence through him, (i.e. Jesus) and apart from him NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence".
"All things" means ALL THINGS doesn't it?
"Not even one thing" has been added for EMPHASIS by the Holy Spirit's inspiration to leave NO ONE in doubt as to what is being communicated here.

sagenaija:
Not even Archangel Michael (who is included in 'All things') came into existence without Jesus.

sagenaija:
In other words, the emphasis on Jesus being the uncaused cause of all that have been created is unmistakable here: don't you think?

sagenaija:
[size=6pt][/size]
1. Janosky fails to understand that the humanity of Christ and his pre-exitent nature need to be put into consideration in interpretation. (Reread this. A word is enough for the 'wise').

Then Jesus said to them, “Why is it said that the Messiah is the son of David? David himself declares in the Book of Psalms: “ ‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” ’ David calls him ‘Lord.’ How then can he be his son?”
Luke 20:41‭-‬44 NIV

2 questions for Sagenaija:
"Sit at my right hand"?
Who gives this command?
In heaven,Who obeys that command?
Your preexisting deity in heaven dey obey command.
Sagenaija,are you ready to receive SENSE?

sagenaija:
2. You like running from pillar to post because you want to convince yourself against the truth that your preconceived position is the right one. So, for example, if you are shown that Jesus was called God with the statement "My Lord and my God" you will look for how to make the 'God' in that statement mean something else. You would have said it was 'Lord' but because 'Lord' is already there you will look for another word just to make it conform to your position. Your references to Lexicon, Hebrew, etc are all to obscure things. We can see through you.

sagenaija:
In Genesis 26:26 we have:
Then Abimelech went to him from Gerar, and Ahuzzath one of his friends, and Phichol the chief captain of his army.
The 'one of' in that verse must mean that Ahuzzath was his 'senior' friend or 'first' friend by your logic. Interesting!

sagenaija:
Or this:
Genesis 25:23
And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
So, 'the one people' here should be interpreted to mean 'the first' or 'the Senior', according to your logic.
You should begin to see through your facade.

Shame on you.
Is Hebrew lexicon 3816 "Community/people"
(screenshot) the same as Hebrew lexicon 259 "One of"?
Capital no !!!
Trinity GIBBERISH synonymous with Fraud

sagenaija:
3. So, when in Revelation 5 the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell before the Lamb it was not worship?
And all that is said and done elsewhere in that chapter to the Lamb is not worship?
Only a show of respect?

Are you saying that you can go through the book of Revelation and still go away with the thinking that the Lamb is not worshipped?

Bishop Kingsley your Trinitarian devotees on this forum on 16th September 2021 @9:21pm proven your claim is FALSE.
Why is the same ghost giving Sagenaija & BishopKingsley conflicting revelations?

sagenaija:
4. Again, your translation of John 1: 3 says "All things came into existence through him, (i.e. Jesus) and apart from him NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence".
But you are not explaining that verse!
Instead you keep running elsewhere to attempt to convince yourself that the position you hold is it!
Your translation says NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence apart from Jesus!
Are you denying your translation?
You need to deal with that!

Hebrews 1:2 "God made the universe through His Son"
Sagenaija, What is left out of Hebrews 1:2 that is not in John 1:3?
1 Corinthians 8:6, God the Father created everything" and Christ THROUGH whom all things are"

What is left out of 1 Corinthians 8:6 that is not in John 1:3?
Las las Jesus is NEVER the creator.
Colossians 1:15 dey pain una too much.
Continue WAILING

MightySparrow:
Janosky!
You are just cutand paste person. I don't want to respond to your posts.

MightySparrow:
Anyways,
Jesus created all else with his word or he is the word through which all things were created.

With what did God create Jesus?
I like direct answers. Direct answers. Direct answers.

Janosky:
These Scriptures dey pain you?
1 Corinthians 8:6, JEHOVAH God created ALL things.
Colossians 1:15 Jesus the first born of every creature"
Genesis 49:3 Reuben the first born of every child of Jacob.

Yahweh spoke the spirit entity Jesus into existence in the spiritual realm.
In the same way Yahweh spoke light into existence "Let there be light"

Janosky:
These Scriptures dey pain you?
1 Corinthians 8:6, JEHOVAH God created ALL things.
Colossians 1:15 Jesus the first born of every creature"
Genesis 49:3 Reuben the first born of every child of Jacob.

Yahweh spoke the spirit entity Jesus into existence in the spiritual realm.



In the same way Yahweh spoke light into existence "Let there be light"

sagenaija:
See this:
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
Revelation 22:16 NIV
Does it agree with your bolder above?

Janosky:
Yahweh spoke the spirit entity Jesus into existence in the spiritual realm.
In the same way Yahweh spoke light into existence "Let there be light"

Jesus is not the one speaking there rather it's the One who sent Jesus to come and represent Him! Isaiah 44:6; 48:12; Revelations 1:8

the persons talking in the book are many:
Then this:
In some cases JEHOVAH speaks while in some cases it's Jesus

So instead of concluding that only Jesus is speaking in that book why not first consider each verse and find out who is speaking and to who?

Let me oblige to your persistence perhaps you will still learn something today!

It's JEHOVAH'S own words!

You're very funny, this is Jesus nah!

sagenaija:
[size=6pt][/size]
MaxinDHouse, Again why not try and be straightforward.
Nobody is saying that only one person spoke throughout the book of Revelation.
We are not talking about different chapters of the book of Revelation. We are looking at what is stated in the space of FIVE VERSES!
Five verses within the same chapter. And it has been so DIFFICULT for you to explain or answer even if it means using your own translation. How come?
I asked questions about SPECIFIC verses, and they are single verses and it has taken us this lo-o-o-ong to get a 'No answer' from you. Why is that so?
How do 'some people think this', 'some people think that' answer a question?
Jesus said "Let your 'yes' be 'yes' and your 'no' be 'no'. Anything else comes from the evil one".
Why look for some other issue to deflect attention from answering a question directly? Is it not better to say 'I don't know' than move others around in a circle?
I asked:
When Jesus said "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."
Revelation 22: ‬13
What do you believe he means?
You responded with:
I then showed you where Jesus CLEARLY said IN THE SAME PORTION:
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
Revelation 22:16 NIV
And I asked you this:
Does it agree with your bolder above?
And your response is now about:
And
Is that verse “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches......" wrong? Or mistranslated?
Do you remember when I asked you a while back:
MaxinDHouse, who is speaking in Isaiah 48:12-13?
You were quick to answer:
When I went on to ask
MaxinDHouse, Thank you. Now, who is speaking here:
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
Revelation 1:17‭-‬18 NIV
Your response was:
Then when I went further with:
MaxinDHouse, do you see the "I am the First, I am also the Last" in Isaiah 48 and the "I am the First and the Last" in Revelation 1?
You said that the the First and the Last in Isaiah 48 is Jehovah and the one in Revelation is Jesus.
Now, are there two different "the First and the Last" persons ‐ one being Jehovah and the other Jesus Christ?
Your response began to change:
This is where deeper understanding is required. When Jehovah said he is the beginning and the end, and Jesus also said the same thing it simply means both persons knows the beginning of mankind's history and rebellion in the garden of Eden, and certainly they will both see the end of badness!
Remember they've been together from the time of creation until now! Proverbs 8:22; John 1:1
That doesn't implies the voice belongs to the same person!
What was a simple question now requires a 'deeper understanding'. The answer changed from 'It is......' to 'That doesn't implies the voice belongs to the same person!'.
I guess you were confused because the person who said "I am the first and the last.."
in Revelation 1 also added "I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever!"
So, it is unmistakable who is speaking. But your DOGMA already has a position on things and you can't immediately reconcile the two. So you had to 'switch gear'.
We are seeing that again here!
A passage with statements that should be clear enough but you now have to hide under the cover of translations and translators.
I didn't ask about translators. I only asked:
When Jesus said "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."
Revelation 22: ‬13
What do you believe he means?
Can you have a go at that question MaxinDHouse?

sagenaija:
[size=6pt][/size]
Janosky, You're a JOKER.
You prefer fluttering around from one thing to another. No focus.
Did you see the questions I asked? And understand them? I guess not.

Emusan:
Another dimension from the JWs

But it's not only light YAHWEH spoke into existence.

Las Las JWs are calling God a liar when He says that "ALL THINGS are created through Jesus"

Janosky:
Why do you type GIBBERISH?
You are definitely not interested in the Bible truth.
Matthew28:18, Jesus told Sagenaija,
"ALL authority have been given to me in heaven and on earth".
The man is still stuck on Revelation 22:16 as if Jesus is equal to God his Father.
Revelation 3:12 & Colossians 1:15 no dey him Bible

MightySparrow:
So, Yahweh spoke Jesus into existence as did other creatures?

MaxInDHouse:
When the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and other Jewish Rabbis were speaking against one another using the scriptures the people were confused as to which group has God's backing, but when Jesus arrived and started teaching what can't be faulted or refuted everyone noticed that this man's teaching is unique! Matthew 7:28-29

Sajenaija just wanted to console himself that there is no group worth taking seriously after all of them have flaws, but right now he is having a big problem because i presented the one and only group practicing Christianity in the right sense, he couldn't present any all he's after is to bring out the flaws in any group claiming the one and only Christian group.

So he's really battling vehemently with his mind over what he can say to disapprove the JW Organization. What a pity all his arguments are futile. I usually ignore his type because it's pointless debating with someone who doesn't want to know God's approved organization, our search is for the lost sheep of the house of Israel (people who are elderly searching for the group practicing what Jesus taught) not those who don't want to subject themselves to any form of tenets.
I only wanted to dig it with him to any length since he's insinuating that i often run away from him. Now i'm with him let's see how he disapproves what JEHOVAH has approved!

Sagenaija is answering his own Father's name.
John 5:43, Jesus bears his own Father's name & titles given to him @ Matthew 28:18
Yet, Sagenaija's brain grasps nothing

Janosky:
Yes !
Is Colossians 1:15 and Romans 11:35-36, in your Bible?
Did Jesus come through his Father?
Yes!
Your Bible says Jesus is a Creature.
Through Jesus, the Father created ALL other things in the universe.
Hebrews 1:2, 1Corinthians 8:6, John 1:3 & Colossians 1:16 proven that.
Are you, Sparrow, ready to receive SENSE?.

sagenaija:
[size=6pt][/size]
MaxinDHouse, Again why not try and be straightforward.

Nobody is saying that only one person spoke throughout the book of Revelation.
We are not talking about different chapters of the book of Revelation. We are looking at what is stated in the space of FIVE VERSES!
Five verses within the same chapter. And it has been so DIFFICULT for you to explain or answer even if it means using your own translation. How come?

I asked questions about SPECIFIC verses, and they are single verses and it has taken us this lo-o-o-ong to get a 'No answer' from you. Why is that so?

How do 'some people think this', 'some people think that' answer a question?

Jesus said "Let your 'yes' be 'yes' and your 'no' be 'no'. Anything else comes from the evil one".

Why look for some other issue to deflect attention from answering a question directly? Is it not better to say 'I don't know' than move others around in a circle?

I asked:
When Jesus said "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."
Revelation 22: ‬13
What do you believe he means?

You responded with:


I then showed you where Jesus CLEARLY said IN THE SAME PORTION:
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
Revelation 22:16 NIV
And I asked you this:
Does it agree with your bolder above?

And your response is now about:

And


Is that verse “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches......" wrong? Or mistranslated?

Do you remember when I asked you a while back:
MaxinDHouse, who is speaking in Isaiah 48:12-13?

You were quick to answer:


When I went on to ask
MaxinDHouse, Thank you. Now, who is speaking here:
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
Revelation 1:17‭-‬18 NIV

Your response was:


Then when I went further with:
MaxinDHouse, do you see the "I am the First, I am also the Last" in Isaiah 48 and the "I am the First and the Last" in Revelation 1?

You said that the the First and the Last in Isaiah 48 is Jehovah and the one in Revelation is Jesus.

Now, are there two different "the First and the Last" persons ‐ one being Jehovah and the other Jesus Christ?

Your response began to change:

This is where deeper understanding is required. When Jehovah said he is the beginning and the end, and Jesus also said the same thing it simply means both persons knows the beginning of mankind's history and rebellion in the garden of Eden, and certainly they will both see the end of badness!

Remember they've been together from the time of creation until now! Proverbs 8:22; John 1:1

That doesn't implies the voice belongs to the same person!

What was a simple question now requires a 'deeper understanding'. The answer changed from 'It is......' to 'That doesn't implies the voice belongs to the same person!'.

I guess you were confused because the person who said "I am the first and the last.."
in Revelation 1 also added "I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever!"
So, it is unmistakable who is speaking. But your DOGMA already has a position on things and you can't immediately reconcile the two. So you had to 'switch gear'.

We are seeing that again here!
A passage with statements that should be clear enough but you now have to hide under the cover of translations and translators.

I didn't ask about translators. I only asked:
When Jesus said "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."
Revelation 22: ‬13
What do you believe he means?

Can you have a go at that question MaxinDHouse?

Janosky:
Yes !
Is Colossians 1:15 and Romans 11:35-36, in your Bible?
Did Jesus come through his Father?
Yes!
Your Bible says Jesus is a Creature.


Through Jesus, the Father created ALL other things in the universe.
Hebrews 1:2, 1Corinthians 8:6, John 1:3 & Colossians 1:16 proven that.
Are you, Sparrow, ready to receive SENSE?.

MightySparrow:
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col.1:15

Born and create are they the same?