₦airaland Forum

jl115:
Patmor 100%....brilliant ambush defence especially for smaller squads!!! Being able to reply with mortar fire(within seconds) in an ambush situation is gold!!

Typical Saffa opting for mortars!
For what it's worth, I agree. 40mm grenade launcher and screw the RPG. 60mm Patmor anyday. But here's the question: a Patmor requires 2 pax; in a section, that's a rifleman less in your counter-ambush drills.

kikuyu1:
In theory its always good to have enough firepower! IRL weight is a problem for dismounts so it becomes an either or proposition: if this were a mere section I'd include the 60 milly for unit plunging fire capability seeing there's already a Milkor for 37 mm direct fire. Every 2 guys would carry 4 rounds in addition to personal kit. If this were a platoon I'd throw in an RPG-7 distributing at least 24 rounds each weighing at least 2.5 kg among 7 guys.

Milkor 40mm, if you please!
I disagree with you and jl155 on patmor in a section. For the extra rifleman on mortar duty, I'd rather have a 2nd 40mm GL.
Of course in a platoon, I express my full Saffa love for mortars.

SuperSixSeven:
Take a look at the map and tell me what NZ needs to maintain an Air Force for? Rationality before dogmatism - that is was drove this decision.
This is the very reason why the West will always be ahead of us.

Seriously!? Platforms are also a deterrent-ask the Algerians! Any threat or proxy force with ugly intentions would be forced to think twice considering the mere existence of FSBs. The complete lack of this in the NZAF greatly complicates any defensive posture. The Aussies are farther away than I thought-a whole 4000 km! Modern battles are won in half the time it would take for Aussie F 35s to arrive on scene.
Also nothing is free! Aussies would depend a heavy price for risking their own expensive assets and lives thanks to a neighbours carelessness.

The Royal Australian Air Force has welcomed the arrival of a new tranche of fifth-generation fighter jets, in its final delivery for 2021.

The RAAF announced on Tuesday that it had taken delivery of three new Lockheed Martin-built F-35A Lightning II aircraft, bringing the force’s total size of the fleet to 44.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2021/11/raaf-takes-delivery-of-three-new-f-35a-lightning-jets/

Fyi,NZ forces suffered the lack of FSBs in Afghanistan.

At 12.27 hours, shortly after the arrival of KT3 with the officer commanding Insurgent forces engaged the New Zealand patrols and vehicles on the road. Upon receiving word of contact KT1 mounted up and traveled to the contact area. The KT1 commander did not know of the clearance operation being carried out by a patrol. KT3 also had little information of the situation prior to the engagement and did not know of the positions of KT4. The LAVs of KT2 started firing on suspected insurgent positions on the high ground and was then joined by KT1. KT3 received sporadic insurgent fire. All 8 NZPRT casualties, those killed and those wounded including the OC wounded, occurred in the space of 12 minutes where the heaviest fighting happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Baghak

What if they had a pair of NZAF jets in country? They'd have been overhead less than 2 minutes.

Lurker4Long:
Everything about this foot patrol in the DRC just seems correct:
- Designated Marksman -> check;

- Grenadier -> check;

- Foot patrol TTPs -> check;

- Walk where locals walk -> check;

What I've not been able to establish is whether this foot patrol was undertaken by a section or platoon.

Kikuyu1, Odunayaw, CaptainStephen, Jl115, shadowprimezero, SuperSixSeven : would you include the 60mm patmor and RPG-7 on this patrol, and why?

Given the thick vegetation that would probably give the enemy good concealment, I'd go for the 60mm Commando Motar and Milkors anytime, any day. An RPG would be useless, given enemy's good concealment and probable spacing.

60mm IDF in the general direction of the enemy + a salvo of 40mm AGL for enemy suppression. Bonus points if you came with 40mm smoke rounds for the Milkor to give yourself better concealment while you unleash hell downrange.

dragon2:
Didn't know they would put those two high up mid-ship. I wonder what they will put on the aft-deck.

Gpmg's and 40mm grenade launcher.

Nigerian Navy vessels commissioned.

Nigerian Navy, NNS Oji

Armament.

- 1 x 30mm RCWS main gun

- 4 x .50 caliber HMG

_ 1 x 40mm grenade launcher

Lurker4Long:
Typical Saffa opting for mortars!
For what it's worth, I agree. 40mm grenade launcher and screw the RPG. 60mm Patmor anyday. But here's the question: a Patmor requires 2 pax; in a section, that's a rifleman less in your counter-ambush drills.

yeah we like em because they are brilliant, as in Bangui

Nigerian Navy NNS Oji, Seaward Defence Boat III

kikuyu1:
Seriously!? Platforms are also a deterrent-ask the Algerians! Any threat or proxy force with ugly intentions would be forced to think twice considering the mere existence of FSBs. The complete lack of this in the NZAF greatly complicates any defensive posture. The Aussies are farther away than I thought-a whole 4000 km! Modern battles are won in half the time it would take for Aussie F 35s to arrive on scene.
Also nothing is free! Aussies would depend a heavy price for risking their own expensive assets and lives thanks to a neighbours carelessness.

I dont know how you measured the distance but i can tell you by fact :

Auckland to Sidney = ~ 2000km.
Auckland to Port Morsbey = ~4000km
Auckland to Hong Kong = ~9000km

I understand that the dogma that every country regardless their geopolitical location needs an air force is strong among enthusiasts. But there is no realistic scenario where out of nothing some other country could take this distance to attack NZ (- and why?). There is non, as there is no for isolated countries Ireland or Iceland. There have been 3 different administrations since the decision in 1999 non of them were concerned bringing fighter jet back into the NZ air force.

Fyi,NZ forces suffered the lack of FSBs in Afghanistan.

What if they had a pair of NZAF jets in country? They'd have been overhead less than 2 minutes.

And forces deployed under NATO in Afghanistan and elsewhere carry out Air Combat Operations only under the Joint Air Command. On request for air support the AC will assign platforms based on current availability regardless which country provided or needs them. Even when NZ jets where forward deployed to the country they would not carry out air operations as the NZ commanders would feel like. Not even given that NZ Fighter jets would be ordered to support NZ ground troops - it just does not work like that. Those decisions will also fall exclusively under the Joint Command. And that NZ will do military operations anywhere else without allied support is also unrealistic.

Oryx door gunners making it rain in Moz

Nigerian made Vulcar M1A self-proppelled artillery system.

SuperSixSeven:
I dont know how you measured the distance but i can tell you by fact :

Auckland to Sidney = ~ 2000km.
Auckland to Port Morsbey = ~4000km
Auckland to Hong Kong = ~9000km

I understand that the dogma that every country regardless their geopolitical location needs an air force is strong among enthusiasts. But there is no realistic scenario where out of nothing some other country could take this distance to attack NZ (- and why?). There is non, as there is no for isolated countries Ireland or Iceland. There have been 3 different administrations since the decision in 1999 non of them were concerned bringing fighter jet back into the NZ air force.



And forces deployed under NATO in Afghanistan and elsewhere carry out Air Combat Operations only under the Joint Air Command. On request for air support the AC will assign platforms based on current availability regardless which country provided or needs them. Even when NZ jets where forward deployed to the country they would not carry out air operations as the NZ commanders would feel like. Not even given that NZ Fighter jets would be ordered to support NZ ground troops - it just does not work like that. Those decisions will also fall exclusively under the Joint Command. And that NZ will do military operations anywhere else without allied support is also unrealistic.

You've missed out SMTH crucial. Defence obligations. Fyi, apart from deterring aggression on own soil they're a member of ANZUS.

Australia, New Zealand, United States Security Treaty (ANZUS or ANZUS Treaty) is the 1951 collective security non-binding agreement between Australia and New Zealand and, separately, Australia and the United States, to co-operate on military matters in the Pacific Ocean region, [/b]although today the treaty is taken to relate to conflicts worldwide.

[url][/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANZUS]

Meaning their primary AO includes places like West Papua under endless Indonesian aggression. Yes, I get that air assets are under joint command. That DOESN'T absolve them responsibility of owning their OWN platforms.

As far back as the Vietnam war they had FSBs under USMC opcon.

A small detachment of RNZAF A-4 Skyhawk pilots were also attached to a U.S Marine Corps A-4 Skyhawk unit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_in_the_Vietnam_War

NZ is 23rd globally in GDP per capita rank with 38k $ for 2020.
[b]They CAN'T afford a squadron and a half, 18 ships of low hr F 16 Block 70s? Like Bulgaria and it seems even the Phils'? SERIOUSLY!?

MELBOURNE, Australia — The U.S. State Department has paved the way for the Philippines to potentially acquire Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon multirole fighter jets and associated weapons, as the U.S. ally moves toward a decision for a key component of its military modernization program.

[urlhttps://www.defensenews.com/global/the-americas/2021/06/25/philippines-gets-approved-for-f-16-missile-buy-worth-over-2-billion/][/url]
These guys need a REAL AIR FORCE.

Nigeria and the UAE seem to always be fighting.

Lurker4Long:
Everything about this foot patrol in the DRC just seems correct:
- Designated Marksman -> check;

- Grenadier -> check;

- Foot patrol TTPs -> check;

- Walk where locals walk -> check;

What I've not been able to establish is whether this foot patrol was undertaken by a section or platoon.

would you include the 60mm patmor and RPG-7 on this patrol, and why?

I'm an evangelist for my firepower at lower levels. Assuming there's solid competence and effectiveness, and that ambushes will likely occur in such thick vegetation at under 400m. I'd have the RPG-7 with each soldier in the section carrying 2rounds for it. (well you left me with only two options )

If it were a platoon? Say no more, I'm in love with the patmor. That counts more to me than its obvious battlefield benefits

X

Ugandan Troops conducting Anti-Terror operations against ADF terrorists in the DRC.

..

UPDF SF in the DRC

Nigerian Navy NNS Lana armed with a 40mm grenade launcher and a 12.7mm HMG

Nigerian made PF Viper Fast Attack Infantry Support Vehicle.

Proforce PF Viper Fast Attack Infantry Vehicle

First batch of 2x T-129 'ATAK' helicopters for the Philippines Air Force due to be delivered this month.

kabe1:
Proforce PF Viper Fast Attack Infantry Vehicle

How many troops does it carry

Odunayaw:
How many troops does it carry

9 including gunner.

Lurker4Long:
Everything about this foot patrol in the DRC just seems correct:
- Designated Marksman -> check;

- Grenadier -> check;

- Foot patrol TTPs -> check;

- Walk where locals walk -> check;

What I've not been able to establish is whether this foot patrol was undertaken by a section or platoon.

Kikuyu1, Odunayaw, CaptainStephen, Jl115, shadowprimezero, SuperSixSeven : would you include the 60mm patmor and RPG-7 on this patrol, and why?

Forgot to say you should've specified 2 things:
- the Denel 60 mm has an extended blast affect compared to an 81 milly

For its part, the optimized 60mm IHE pre-formed fragments (PFF) round [b]produces destructive force comparable to 81 mm ammunition, [/b]even though the round and the weapon both weigh less.

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/featured/rdm-receives-south-african-army-60-mm-mortar-contract/
- despite the pic many parts of E DRC are swampy which severely negates mortar effects
- heavy jungle also prevents mortar usage for OBVIOUS reasons and this place has triple canopy in almost half of the region.

kabe1:
Nigerian made PF Viper Fast Attack Infantry Support Vehicle.

Fantastic progress.
Let them consider an ambulance version too.

BlackBaron:
Fantastic progress.
Let them consider an ambulance version too.

They already offer ARA MRAPs in ambulance, command & control and recovery versions.

Rare pic, and not to be repeated. 16 Squadron was testing the CSIR-designed fuel drop tanks for the Rooivalk. Designing, manufacturing the tanks was expensive enough, without dropping and destroying them.
How do you test that the Rooivalk can carry and drop them?

Do the same test with another equivalent product, of course.

Members of Ghana Navy SBS.

All members of Ghana Navy SBS get selected and go through initial SBS training in Nigeria.

Nigeria's advanced and heavily armed warship, NNS Oji.