₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
Even though you pretend to be a Christian yet whenever you come in contact with JWs you're so week that you can't contain the bitterness in your heart! Luke 6:45

Lol the hypocrite. i am not bitter with or against or about you, why should i be? You must have seen Olaa my friend and his response to your wishes. It was what i referred to as hurting your feelings that you said you felt.

Image123:
Lol the hypocrite. i am not bitter with or against or about you, why should i be? You must have seen Olaa my friend and his response to your wishes. It was what i referred to as hurting your feelings that you said you felt.

If you call Olaa 'your friend' is he my own enemy?

MaxInDHouse:
If you call Olaa 'your friend' is he my own enemy?

You did read him, right? He's not learning from your comic books or asking questions about what he does not know.

Image123:
You did read him, right? He's not learning from your comic books or asking questions about what he does not know.

Says you, the self-appointed spokesman!

OLAADEGBU:
What did Jesus mean when He said, "Today you will be with me in paradise"? Where does the comma belong in Luke 23:43?

The Bible text had no punctuation marks as we know them today, so the translators into English are the ones who decide where to put quotation marks, dashes, commas, and fullstops/periods.

In Luke 23:43, some translators put the comma in the wrong place, changing the meaning of what Jesus was saying based on biased doctrines or might be a mistake.

Jesus was not saying “You will be with me today” because that day Jesus ended up in the grave, not in any Paradise.


Jesus meant he was promising the man “today”- that very day- that one day in the future that man would be resurrected to live in Paradise.

Putting the comma in the correct place (after the word “today”) correctly conveys what Jesus meant and is therefore the more accurate translation.

Kobojunkie:
I don't get it!

Also, why would the thief, contrary to all of Jesus Christ's very own teaching, be anywhere near Heaven?

Before you answer, make certain you understand what Jesus Christ meant when He said Heaven and Earth will pass away but not a jot of the Word of God will pass away (change).

You should have known the thief's statement was that of a repentant soul, he genuinely asked that Jesus remember him when HE gets back to his kingdom.
So it means the statement made by the thief was that of someone requesting for forgiveness.. you can't actually say the whole scenario was unclear, as to why the thief was forgiven his sins at that moment, since the bible also said it that as long as a soul genuinely admits his/ her wrongdoings and seek for forgiveness, he/she will surely be forgiven.
So the thief's sins were forgiven at that point in time, so he became a qualified candidate for heaven.

yommyoke:
1. You should have known the thief's statement was that of a repentant soul, he genuinely asked that Jesus remember him when HE gets back to his kingdom.

2. So it means the statement made by the thief was that of someone requesting for forgiveness.. you can't actually say the whole scenario was unclear, as to why the thief was forgiven his sins at that moment, since the bible also said it that as long as a soul genuinely admits his/ her wrongdoings and seek for forgiveness, he/she will surely be forgiven.

So the thief's sins were forgiven at that point in time, so he became a qualified candidate for heaven.

1. None of what the thief said there on the cross meets up with Jesus Christ own stipulations as far as Salvation and the Kingdom of God, this as documented right there in the the 4 Gospels, so it is a tremendous leap to assume that thief saved at that.

2. The thief's statement on the cross instead met God's Old Covenant Law criteria for Life - Ezekiel 33 vs 9 - 20 - which have nothing to do with the Kingdom of God or Heaven by the way.

Yes, a one will be forgiven of sins when he/she admits wrong doing but that doesn't mean such a one will enter into Heaven at the end, this since in order to gain access to Heaven one must also have done works of righteousness- Matthew 25 vs 31 - 40. Basically, it is not enough to claim one's has has his sins forgiven in order to make it into the Kingdom of God. Those who do not have extra oil(works of righteousness) like the 5 wise brides from the parable of the 10 Bridge, will not enter in to be with the bridegroom after all is said and done - Matthew 25 vs 1 - 13

Kobojunkie:
1. None of what the thief said there on the cross meets up with Jesus Christ own stipulations as far as Salvation and the Kingdom of God, this as documented right there in the the 4 Gospels, so it is a tremendous leap to assume that thief saved at that.

2. The thief's statement on the cross instead met God's Old Covenant Law criteria for Life - Ezekiel 33 vs 9 - 20 - which have nothing to do with the Kingdom of God or Heaven by the way.

Yes, a one will be forgiven of sins when he/she admits wrong doing but that doesn't mean such a one will enter into Heaven at the end, this since in order to gain access to Heaven one must also have done works of righteousness- Matthew 25 vs 31 - 40. Basically, it is not enough to claim one's has has his sins forgiven in order to make it into the Kingdom of God. Those who do not have extra oil(works of righteousness) like the 5 wise brides from the parable of the 10 Bridge, will not enter in to be with the bridegroom after all is said and done - Matthew 25 vs 1 - 13

So basically, what you meant is that repentance is not all that is require to enter into the Kingdom of God?
Seems I'm actually hearing this for the first time.
All those sinners seeking forgiveness at the verge of death can't make heaven even if they repent and accept Jesus as their Lord??
Seriously, either one of us need serious clearification on this.
I believe repentance and forgiveness is all that is required to enter heaven

yommyoke:
1. So basically, what you meant is that repentance is not all that is require to enter into the Kingdom of God?

2. Seems I'm actually hearing this for the first time.
All those sinners seeking forgiveness at the verge of death can't make heaven even if they repent and accept Jesus as their Lord??

3. Seriously, either one of us need serious clearification on this. I believe repentance and forgiveness is all that is required to enter heaven

1. Jesus Christ made it clear in John 3 vs 5 - 21 that in order to enter into the Kingdom of God, you must be born-again - born of water and of spirit.

2. Forgiveness from sin isn't the criteria for entering into Heaven. Jesus Christ made it also clear in His many teaching and parables - Matthew 25 vs 1 - 13 and Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 being some of them. It is only those who do the work given them by the master that will be rewarded when the master returns.

3. This belief is not based on the actual teachings of Jesus Christ but instead on the doctrines and traditions of men(and their churches) which Jesus Christ warned His followers against- Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14 & Mark 7 vs 1 - 13

MaxInDHouse:
Says you, the self-appointed spokesman!

Yes oh, i can speak for him. Ask him and get further heartbreaks.

Image123:
Yes oh, i can speak for him. Ask him and get further heartbreaks.

Allow him speak for himself nah!

Kobojunkie:
1. Jesus Christ made it clear in John 3 vs 5 - 21 that in order to enter into the Kingdom of God, you must be born-again - born of water and of spirit.

2. Forgiveness from sin isn't the criteria for entering into Heaven. Jesus Christ made it also clear in His many teaching and parables - Matthew 25 vs 1 - 13 and Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 being some of them. It is only those who do the work given them by the master that will be rewarded when the master returns.

3. This belief is not based on the actual teachings of Jesus Christ but instead on the doctrines and traditions of men(and their churches) which Jesus Christ warned His followers against- Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14 & Mark 7 vs 1 - 13

Hmmm,
Maybe then, the only thing that I can say about this is that, God is actually unquestionable, showing mercy to the e ones that least deserved it.
I'm not dusputing your points

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh8Jya2GK1w

yommyoke:
Hmmm,
Maybe then, the only thing that I can say about this is that, God is actually unquestionable, showing mercy to the e ones that least deserved it.
I'm not dusputing your points

The very same "unquestionable" God does not lie, nor does He change His mind like men do, so He will never go back on His Word, and Law, like men do.

yommyoke:
You should have known the thief's statement was that of a repentant soul, he genuinely asked that Jesus remember him when HE gets back to his kingdom.
So it means the statement made by the thief was that of someone requesting for forgiveness.. you can't actually say the whole scenario was unclear, as to why the thief was forgiven his sins at that moment, since the bible also said it that as long as a soul genuinely admits his/ her wrongdoings and seek for forgiveness, he/she will surely be forgiven.
So the thief's sins were forgiven at that point in time, so he became a qualified candidate for heaven.

Jesus promised the thief "Paradise" though it's somehow difficult for many to distinguish between heaven and Paradise but a little Bible study with the true Christians will help.

Heaven is where God and angels live so the place wasn't designed for flesh and blood like humans and animals but spirit beings. That's why God's word says heaven is God's abode while the earth has been given to mankind! Psalms 115:16


What about Paradise?

When God first settled the first human pair in the garden of Eden where they had all what they needed, nothing like sickness, nothing like oldage, nothing like death, all the animals both great and small were obedient to humans, it was indeed a PARADISE!
But after commiting sin they were driven out of that Paradisiac garden and they can only see it from a distance while the two Cherubs kept standing with a flaming sword right by the entrance. Genesis 3:24
This garden was there all along during the time people like Cain, Abel, Enoch, Methuselah and Noah walked the earth but they can only see the gate with the cherubs and flaming sword. The garden was washed away by the global deluge and God promised to restore the whole earth back to that condition when Jesus began ruling the earth, that's when we will no longer get sick {Isaiah 33:24} no more oldage {Job 33:25} God will swallow death completely so no one will die again neither are we going to cry or mourn our love ones due to death {Isaiah 25:8} in fact people living that time will not need to know dates anymore because they will always remain youthful as long as they live {Isaiah 65:22} no more blind, lame nor any other deformities because everyone will have sound health {Isaiah 35:5-6} and as for the animals none will be a carnivore because all of them will feed on grasses! Isaiah 11:6-7; 65:25

Please do not discard all what you're reading in God's word now because this is the Good News of God's Kingdom on earth and that's where Jesus meant when he told that dying guy:

"I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise"

Of course that thief who is a Jew surely knew all these because that's what they were expecting to experience when the Messiah (Christ) begin his rulership but they don't know that he must first gather his co-rulers, train them on how they're going to preach and teach all other nations before the establishment of God's Kingdom to end all badness! Matthew 24:14

So that thief died a blissful man with the hope of waking up in Paradise where everything we need will be provided by our God JEHOVAH! Psalms 67:6-7

May you have PEACE!

MaxInDHouse:
I have a feeling that the OP is secretly reading our publications because only those that read our publications can think this deep.
This question is uncommon among Churchgoers!

That verse is written in everyday language and a normal person who hasn't been indoctrinated will read and understand it. Real Christians wouldn't have a problem reading it as it is written especially in the authorised version but I know that many are naïve into assuming everyone sees it the same way. This is the reason I brought this question to the open for us to trash out especially when I know the heretical teaching your organisation spread to deceive unsuspecting Christians.

Image123:
The height of poo feeding. Anyway, it is not new. How can someone be so myopic to think that others cannot think without them?

God bless you my brother. They don't even study the Bible it's their heretical publications they study to disarm unsuspecting believers.

Image123:
Lol, who puts the comma, Jesus or translators?

The comma doesn't change the fact that one thief is in hell looking for water and the other is in paradise waiting for us.

Please permit me to say for the second time that the comma was neither inserted by Jesus nor by the translators it was actually added by a man called Archbishop Stephen Langton.

MaxInDHouse:
So in your own conclusion OLAADEGBU shouldn't ask the question, right?

I thought you're not supposed to THINK for him?

When or where did image123 suggest that I shouldn't ask that question?

cornelboy:
To be honest, I wanted to ask him if he's studying with the JWs, because the JW man from New Zealand opened my eyes to that when I was trying to defend the doctrine of immortal soul

I no dé use JWs play o.
Everything is well figured out.

This is the reason I brought this question to limelight because the likes of you who have not studied their bibles would be swept off their feet when they come in contact with these deceivers who are well armed to disarm you of the truth you once believed.

MaxInDHouse:
Well Jesus' statement about the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses always ring a bell in my mind:

“Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?" Matthew 24:45

If Kumuyi (the founder of the church where the OP attends) has done justice to the topic he won't have raised the question here.
Can't you see the other stupid Churchgoer complaining when he himself doesn't know the weight of the question OP raised?

Anyone reading your adulterated NWT that has the comma in the wrong place to change the import of the sentence. You might as well say that you are spreading your Watchtower magazine message and not the Bible.

Image123:
He's not asking the question out of ignorance or seeking for answers, you should learn to know people better. He's putting it up for forum discussion and knowledge share. Like a form of breaking bread, though that hardly exists on the platform. You think Jesus was confused or unsure of His identity when He asked questions?
On thinking, can't you see that you are so blind? Why do you think anywhere there's a semblance of agreement with you, the person must have learned from your little gods or be a member of your cult? Are you unaware that people study the Bible or they teach you that no one can study Bible if he's not from your little cult?

Remain blessed my brother from another mother for representing my intentions well.

MaxInDHouse:
Someone asked a question about what he don't know and here you are trying to tell us what he had in mind, are you his spokesman?

What don't you know? Tell us.

yommyoke:
Respect, never for once think in this direction. So this is a case of grammatical understanding,
"I tell you today, you will be ......." And "I tell you, today you will be ......."..
It sure means the thief will be in paradise, but might not be that same day, since Jesus was still probably on earth for the next three days before finally ascending into heaven.

Great!!

Your response is as a result of a person being cajoled into believing a person who neither believes we can be born again nor does he believe we are meant to go to heaven. Those who believe this heretical teaching will place the comma in a place that suits his narration.

MaxInDHouse:
Thanks, all glory and honor to the true God who dispensed His holy spirit so that we may understand these sacred secrets! 2Corinthians 13:14 compare to John 14:26; 16:12-13

It depend on which god you deem to be the true God. The God I serve opposes the lies you've used into deceiving your naïve audience.

Kobojunkie:
1. Wrong! The Kingdom of God is symbol for the Kingdom of God just as the earth of symbol for the earth!

2. Again wrong! Jesus died and was buried... He did not ascend up to Heaven until 2 weeks afterwards. Open your eyes in order to separate the delusions you have obviously been fed from what is in fact written!

3. Also Wrong! Heaven and Hell are currently unoccupied by humans, as the gates will not be made open to admission until after Jesus Christ returns. This is what Jesus Christ taught His followers literally and even in parables.

Also, the thief on the cross was promised Paradise, not the Kingdom of God so it is a lie to claim he will be in Heaven..

Half truths and outright lies from the pit of hell.

Kobojunkie:
I don't get it!

Also, why would the thief, contrary to all of Jesus Christ's very own teaching, be anywhere near Heaven?

Before you answer, make certain you understand what Jesus Christ meant when He said Heaven and Earth will pass away but not a jot of the Word of God will pass away (change).

Another deceiver on the prowl.

cornelboy:
Lemme just summarise everything for you.

Verse 43: And Jesus said unto him ,"verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise".
If the comma should be placed before "today" like most Bible translation do, it would mean that Jesus and the thief went to paradise that same day after they died on the cross.

But the fact is Jesus died and was in the grave for 3 days before GOD raised him from the dead. So logically he didn't go to paradise that same day he died.

And Jesus said unto him ,"verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise".

If the comma is placed after today {which is actually where it should be}, then it makes sense. Jesus promised the thief the future paradise here on earth.

Note that the thief asked Jesus to remember him in his kingdom.
The thief can't enter God's Kingdom because he wasn't baptized by the holy spirit (not born again).

In conclusion, only the few chosen people will inherit God's kingdom while the rest of the righteous will inherit the new earth paradise.
May you have peace!

The reason you place the comma where you did is to justify your heretical teachings of not being born again as well as not making heaven.

Acehart:
The comma means: after “today”. The context reveals its meaning; Do you see what the criminal said to Jesus in the previous verse, 42: “Remember me when you come into your kingdom.” The criminal was speaking about the “kingdom.” The “kingdom” is not “heaven,” rather, it is future, it is not available now, which is why the criminal said, ‘when you come into your kingdom.’

Let's see if there is any text in the scriptures that supports this "futuristic" conclusion and scenario- Job 33: 27-28,

He looketh upon men, and if any say, I have sinned, and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not; He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light.

It would not be wrong to state that Jesus' use of the word "today" together with the comma punctuation, is similar to the way we use the word "now" in the English Language when it isn't used as an adverb of time but rather to draw attention to a particular statement or point in a narrative.

It depends on what bible translation you use.

Acehart:
In the original language, it reads something like this: Now with me, you will be in paradise

Have you got a qualification in the original language?

MaxInDHouse:
Even though you pretend to be a Christian yet whenever you come in contact with JWs you're so week that you can't contain the bitterness in your heart! Luke 6:45

Are you bitter towards image123 because he easily punctures holes into your bubble?

Image123:
Lol the hypocrite. i am not bitter with or against or about you, why should i be? You must have seen Olaa my friend and his response to your wishes. It was what i referred to as hurting your feelings that you said you felt.

My response must have hurt his ego.