₦airaland Forum

The problem is, that believers often switch among 3 different concepts when discussing the topic of God (often multiple times in the same discussion), which make it even more important to know exactly what is being discussed.

In general, there are three basic concepts of “God”:

The first concept of God is the God actually worshiped by anybody throughout history, as generally described in various holy books as having said and done and promised to do various specific things for which there should be abundant evidence. The existence of any of the various gods that fall under this category can be easily dismissed, not only because of the lack of evidence that should be there if they did exist, but also because we can trace their origins directly to those ancient books that are filled with obvious superstitious nonsense. It’s like how you know that Harry Potter the wizard wasn’t a real person — sure, the fact that there is no evidence of magical spells and flying broomsticks is important, but you also know that the idea of Harry Potter originated in a particular book filled with obviously fictional accounts of all sorts of supernatural occurrences.

The second concept of God is the one that theistic apologists generally trot out in order to explain why none of the evidence that should be readily apparent if God exists can be actually found. This is the so-called “hidden” “God of the Philosophers” (a.k.a. the Deist God). It’s a God that exists as some sort of “pure intelligence” or “immaterial spirit” somewhere “outside of time and space” and, as a result, is completely and utterly mysterious, unknowable and undetectable. It’s a God that does not interact with the material world in any detectable way, nor does it intervene on our behalf. Well, not according to Deists, at least. As mentioned before, theistic apologists only tend talk about this concept of God when asked to explain why there is no evidence of God, but then they go right back to talking about all the things they know about this “unknowable” God and all the things this “hidden” God has said and done and promised to do.

Anyway, this second concept of God can be dismissed for a variety of reasons, including:

Despite claims that the “Deist” God is the product of purely philosophical reasoning, the truth is that it has its ultimate origins in the same ancient books of superstitious nonsense as the first concept of God. It’s basically just an attempt to provide a logical justification for an illogical belief in order to make it seem more rational.
Almost all the arguments in favor of this concept of God are variations on the classic argument from ignorance or personal incredulity. “Science cannot [yet] explain various phenomena, therefore the only other explanation [I am willing to accept] is that God did it.”
A truly “hidden” God that does not reveal its presence is indistinguishable from a God that does not actually exist. So what does it matter if such a God did actually exist?

The third main concept of God is one that basically just takes some known phenomenon and renames it to be “God.” God is the entire universe. God is nature. God is the laws of nature. God is love. God is everything. You get the picture. And the reason to reject this concept of God is simply that it is wholly unnecessary. There are already perfectly good words for “the universe” or “love” or “nature” or “everything,” so why not just say you believe in the universe and love and nature and everything without bringing “God” into the discussion? All it does is further muddy the water. I mean, sure, the Bible says “God is love” and I believe that love exists (as an emotion, at least), but that doesn’t mean I have to accept that the Bible is correct when it claims that God is love and therefore admit to believing in the specific being that is described throughout the Bible as having said and done and promised to do all sort of other things apart from just being “love.”

Workch:
The first concept of God is the God actually worshiped by anybody throughout history,

This concept is only open to you "I Hate God" people as it is you people who raise it up thinking you could use it against "Christians".

Among God Acknowledging people (Theists) this concept does not exist, for we clearly appreciate that God will have a Name in every Language.

Workch:
The second concept of God is... a God that exists as some sort of “pure intelligence” or “immaterial spirit” somewhere “outside of time and space” and, as a result, is completely and utterly mysterious, unknowable and undetectable.

THIS IS PERFECTLY RIGHT AND ACCURATE.

For it is seen that we never created ourselves and there is no thing in and on this world which is capable of creating itself from scratch. A House never builds itself, a car never builds itself, a mannequin did not build itself!

Workch:
Anyway, this second concept of God can be dismissed for a variety of reasons,

Only "I hate God" people dismiss it BECAUSE THEY NEVER WANT GOD AND CAN NEVER ACCEPT HIS PRESENCE AND MOST ESPECIALLY AS THEY HAVE NO WHERE TO GO WHEN GOD IS BROUGHT HERE.

Workch:
The third main concept of God is one that basically just takes some known phenomenon and renames it to be “God.” God is the entire universe.

God is nature. God is the laws of nature. God is love. God is everything.

This is a 50/50 Stand. Partly bad invalid argument and Party Good valid argument.

This is simply because, "BURNING PROVES FIRE, BLOOD PROVES WOUND, WETNESS PROVES WATER/LIQUID.

SO THE VALIDITY IS THAT MIGHTY SUPER HUMAN POWER PROVES THE MIGHTY PERSON, WHO WE CALL GOD!

@ Workch
There is little to contribute as I agree with the thrust of what you write here, even if I find it largely light-weight.

I really wonder how you can make an argument with your maker. Of what use is this argument, what do you intend to get from it. The truth is whether you believe God exists or not, it changes nothing. You'll eventually find out the truth when you pass on to the next world. However, you won't be able to come back on nairaland to tell anyone.

So you can live your life comfortably now that you've fully convinced yourself that Christians are hallucinating and are crazy. It's our belief, but I wonder why you keep opening new topics to argue about the God you don't believe in.

Are you expecting He will open an account on nairaland to respond to you? You sound like you're looking for him but I'm sure you'll find him, even after your one millionth thread on nairaland. After he answers those who seek for Him.

DeepSight:
@ Workch
There is little to contribute as I agree with the thrust of what you write here, even if I find it largely light-weight.

OK

peggywebbs:
I really wonder how you can make an argument with your maker. Of what use is this argument, what do you intend to get from it. The truth is whether you believe God exists or not, it changes nothing. You'll eventually find out the truth when you pass on to the next world. However, you won't be able to come back on nairaland to tell anyone.

So you can live your life comfortably now that you've fully convinced yourself that Christians are hallucinating and are crazy. It's our belief, but I wonder why you keep opening new topics to argue about the God you don't believe in.

Are you expecting He will open an account on nairaland to respond to you? You sound like you're looking for him but I'm sure you'll find him, even after your one millionth thread on nairaland. After he answers those who seek for Him.

There's no evidence for any maker, don't you get it?

I don't need to get it and I don't need you to convince me either. It's what you're telling yourself and trying very hard to digest it. Like I said, wait till you're dead, if you don't turn to manure and cease to exist, you will likely have the answers you're looking for.

Workch:
There's no evidence for any maker, don't you get it?

peggywebbs:
I don't need to get it and I don't need you to convince me either. It's what you're telling yourself and trying very hard to digest it. Like I said, wait till you're dead, if you don't turn to manure and cease to exist, you will likely have the answers you're looking for.

I'm not the person to convince you, you need to convince me with evidence

No I don't need to convince you. Nobody convinced me at all. I usually say something that belief is a strong conviction. You're believe in the non-existence of God is as solid as my belief in the existence of God.

If you can't convince me to change my beliefs then I can't convince you either. Every Christian knows that it is the Holy Spirit that has the power to convince people about God. No human on earth can by their ability to it. Conviction is from the Holy Spirit. If you don't experience the Holy Spirit, then you'll keep going back and forth with all of these obsessive arguements.

So like I said I'm not going to convince you but I'll tell you live a healthy life and focus on other things that you believe. I expect to see lots of threads about scientific breakthroughs.. you can even join the religion called Scientology, look it up. They are people like you who don't believe in God. Maybe that's where you'll get the answers you're looking for.

Workch:
I'm not the person to convince you, you need to convince me with evidence

peggywebbs:
No I don't need to convince you. Nobody convinced me at all. I usually say something that belief is a strong conviction. You're believe in the non-existence of God is as solid as my belief in the existence of God.

If you can't convince me to change my beliefs then I can't convince you either. Every Christian knows that it is the Holy Spirit that has the power to convince people about God. No human on earth can by their ability to it. Conviction is from the Holy Spirit. If you don't experience the Holy Spirit, then you'll keep going back and forth with all of these obsessive arguements.

So like I said I'm not going to convince you but I'll tell you live a healthy life and focus on other things that you believe. I expect to see lots of threads about scientific breakthroughs.. you can even join the religion called Scientology, look it up. They are people like you who don't believe in God. Maybe that's where you'll get the answers you're looking for.

After this, God still doesn't exist, he's a made-up entity

Cheers

Workch:
After this, God still doesn't exist, he's a made-up entity