Openmine..

wasnt lovren exit d reason we got vvd... U said matip stepped up only when we go konate.. No that's very wrong.. Being paired with vvd might have bring out his best but it's surely nt wen konate was gotten.. If u say gomez- vvd pair was better, y did klopp kept opting for matip- vvd pair

alekside:
LOL... Klopp didn't buy VVD because Matip wasn't good enough. It was obvious to everyone that Lovren was the Calamity in the defence that needed to be changed.

Ohh lord....so lovren was the only defender that partnered Matip abi?
Did Matip not partner Gomez? What was the outcome? More goals conceded!
Even when VVD partnered lovren,he turned to a superstar defender thanks to VVD!

You keep talking about Matip's stats. I have been expecting that you'd share his stat in 16/17 and 17/18 to clear my doubt. Since you said he was poor for two straight seasons before VVD's arrival, let's see the stats that proves this.

Matip was so poor in his first season that he was rated high by Whoscored and Sofascore.

Smh
I even thought I was going to see an 8 or even an 8.5 at least to justify your 'best defender' narrative of Matip!

Now go and check the stats of VVD and while checking also compare with Matip's performance after VVD arrived!

Oga let's get one thing clear....l admire the performance of Matip so far as an LFC fan and I have said it in several occasions but confidently saying Matip was the best defender before VVD showed up is absurd and explicitly confusing!

If I buy a defender and he is already walking into the first team and giving instructions,then it means there was virtually no defence initially!

Why hire an expert to an accounting firm when the head accountant who is described as being the best and yet can't tell why the company keeps losing money!

VVD made all the defenders better joor!
Give honour to whom its due!

openmine:


Ohh lord....so lovren was the only defender that partnered Matip abi?
Did Matip not partner Gomez? What was the outcome? More goals conceded!
Even when VVD partnered lovren,he turned to a superstar defender thanks to VVD!



Smh
I even thought I was going to see an 8 or even an 8.5 at least to justify your 'best defender' narrative of Matip!

Now go and check the stats of VVD and while checking also compare with Matip's performance after VVD arrived!

Oga let's get one thing clear....l admire the performance of Matip so far as an LFC fan and I have said it in several occasions but confidently saying Matip was the best defender before VVD showed up is absurd and explicitly confusing!

If I buy a defender and he is already walking into the first team and giving instructions,then it means there was virtually no defence initially!

Why hire an expert to an accounting firm when the head accountant who is described as being the best and yet can't tell why the company keeps losing money!

VVD made all the defenders better joor!
Give honour to whom its due!

So, LFC conceeding too much goals wasn't because of Klopp's non-conservative approach in his earlier days, Lovren being a shitty defender, and Mignolet/Karius being shitty keepers? According to you, it was all down to Matip's ineptitude.

You are very funny. . How many defenders in the world gets an 8 or 8.5 rating after a season?



Below is a list of LFC Centre backs before VVD:
Joel Matip
Mamadou Sakho
Dejan Lovren
Ragnar Klavan
Joe Gomez

Please tell me who was better than Matip amongst the listed.

alekside:
The little drop in his rating was as a result of his reoccurring injuries which made him miss games in his later seasons. He was definitely our best defender before VVD's arrival.

You're right.. 4rm what i recall, lovren was d problem of our backline then not matip.. Atleast if matip wasnt so good, klopp wouldnt prefer his pairing with vvd over gomez's. What now has me shocked abt his whole write up was when he said d purchase of konate made matip stepped up.

Openmine, do u knw using stats to judge a player has its flaws esp wen d player constantly goes out on injury..

Silentgroper:
Openmine..

wasnt lovren exit d reason we got vvd... U said matip stepped up only when we go konate.. No that's very wrong.. Being paired with vvd might have bring out his best but it's surely nt wen konate was gotten.. If u say gomez- vvd pair was better, y did klopp kept opting for matip- vvd pair

The context of Matip stepping up was that he became more prominent this season in defence and attack esp and also had more time to rest as konate was also sharing in the partnership of VVD...hence he never played all the matches which would have been bad considering his injury history!

VVD didn't just make the other defenders better,he made them step up to the plate....infact,according to a pundit,VVD made the job of his partner to be less stressful due to his leadership,calmness and the very fact that he anticipates danger before it happens with his timely tackles!

During the 2019/2020 season which was our season when we clinched the EPL,VVD/Gomez were so phenomenal in defence to a point where we hardly conceded goals...All of a sudden,Matip and lovren were looking like 3rd and 4th choice defenders!
The VVD/Matip partnership returned after Gomez had a lengthy injury!

Lovren did not leave after the emergence of VVD!
VVD came during the middle of 2017/2018 season and lovren left after the 2019/2020!

Silentgroper:
You're right.. 4rm what i recall, lovren was d problem of our backline then not matip.. Atleast if matip wasnt so good, klopp wouldnt prefer his pairing with vvd over gomez's. What now has me shocked abt his whole write up was when he said d purchase of konate made matip stepped up.

Openmine, do u knw using stats to judge a player has its flaws esp wen d player constantly goes out on injury..

Ask him to bring the stats to prove Matip was not our best defender pre-VVD.

EgusiShankly:


Gerrard take over after Klopp?
Please! Please!! Abort it. The guyman is trash

He is actually starting out bro. Saying he is trash just condemns him totally.
Even Klopp almost got Mainz relegated.
Have some respect for him.
He is why we won the 5th and 6th UCL.

Silentgroper:
You're right.. 4rm what i recall, lovren was d problem of our backline then not matip.. Atleast if matip wasnt so good, klopp wouldnt prefer his pairing with vvd over gomez's. What now has me shocked abt his whole write up was when he said d purchase of konate made matip stepped up.

Openmine, do u knw using stats to judge a player has its flaws esp wen d player constantly goes out on injury..

There is no difference between stats and watching a game!
Infact watching a game can make one bypass the performance of some players that are key to the overall success of the team...for instance,not everyone sees what the likes of Fabinho or Jorginho does on the pitch but only stats will actually let u in on their performance!
Don't get me wrong, I also watch games asides checking the stats!
See I acknowledge the fact the performance of Matip and we all can relate with his injury history,however we must put things into context...Before VVD,we were poor in defence and this was not only the fault of lovren because when Matip was partnered with Gomez,the leak did not stop!

alekside:
Ask him to bring the stats to prove Matip was not our best defender pre-VVD.

Yeah best defender and we could not stop the goals until VVD showed up!
Waoh...amazing!

alekside:

So, LFC conceeding too much goals wasn't because of Klopp's non-conservative approach in his earlier days, Lovren being a shitty defender, and Mignolet/Karius being shitty keepers? According to you, it was all down to Matip's ineptitude.

You are very funny. . How many defenders in the world gets an 8 or 8.5 rating after a season?



Below is a list of LFC Centre backs before VVD:
Joel Matip
Mamadou Sakho
Dejan Lovren
Ragnar Klavan
Joe Gomez

Please tell me who was better than Matip amongst the listed.

None until VVD showed up and made them better!
Simple!

openmine:

Yeah best defender and we could not stop the goals until VVD showed up!
Waoh...amazing!

Only VVD was responsible for the reduction in goal conceeded. Klopp tweaking his game to a more conservative approach, Allison's outstanding performances, selling dross like Moreno, Mignolet, Lovren etc played no part

openmine:

None until VVD showed up and made them better!
Simple!

That's has been my point since the beginning. Matip was clear of the rest of our defenders before VVD.

alekside:
The bolded is false. Matip was our best defender before VVD came in. The only issue he had was his reoccurring injuries.

Openmine. Matip was actually really good and our best before VVD. The problem is he rarely frequently played, and had people who were too error prone alongside him. Don't forget the GKs we had, and oh,the Midfield. We also had Moreno in defense.
Gomez and Matip first partnered as CBs last season. They've never ever been paired prior to then.
For Matip to still remain even after Klavan, Lovren Sakho, you need to know he did something right. Don't forget the others aren't injury prone.
Even Van Dijk admits Matip is better than him in some areas. What Matip lacks is that calmness and commanding nature and game reading. But if it's to carry the ball, tackle and all, he is good. Real good, and better than the others we had.
The only debate is who between him and Gomez is better.
I would say, it has both sides to look at. In terms of defending, Gomez on his day is ruthless, you can't bully him, he bullies you. But when it comes to giving that attacking pass or breaking into Midfield, Matip has it.
Lovren is good but too error prone and too hasty. The guy too dey do gra gra. But I like him in terms nodding ball into the net and bullying attackers.

alekside:
Only VVD was responsible for the reduction in goal conceeded. Klopp tweaking his game to a more conservative approach, Allison's outstanding performances, selling dross like Moreno, Mignolet, Lovren etc played no part

This is the mistake you guys have. He isn't really the only one, cause if you follow it well, when VVD came, the error prone guys started taking a step back, guys like Moreno, we got Robertson playing more and Trent getting into the team.
Am not discrediting VVD but putting it on the team also.
After all, VVD was in the game we played where 7 goals went past him.

Minemrys:

Openmine. Matip was actually really good and our best before VVD. The problem is he rarely frequently played, and had people who were too error prone alongside him. Don't forget the GKs we had, and oh,the Midfield. We also had Moreno in defense.
Gomez and Matip first partnered as CBs last season. They've never ever been paired prior to then.
For Matip to still remain even after Klavan, Lovren Sakho, you need to know he did something right. Don't forget the others aren't injury prone.
Even Van Dijk admits Matip is better than him in some areas. What Matip lacks is that calmness and commanding nature and game reading. But if it's to carry the ball, tackle and all, he is good. Real good, and better than the others we had.
The only debate is who between him and Gomez is better.
I would say, it has both sides to look at. In terms of defending, Gomez on his day is ruthless, you can't bully him, he bullies you. But when it comes to giving that attacking pass or breaking into Midfield, Matip has it.
Lovren is good but too error prone and too hasty. The guy too dey do gra gra. But I like him in terms nodding ball into the net and bullying attackers.

I do not deny what you are saying!
However, the narrative of Matip being the 'best defender' felt sightly odd to me and made it look as though VVD was not actually needed!
They were all average until VVD showed up and administered is leadership qualities and calmness which none of them including Matip had!
This brought the best out of Matip and Gomez and also lovren because VVD had once pair with him!

alekside:
Only VVD was responsible for the reduction in goal conceeded. Klopp tweaking his game to a more conservative approach, Allison's outstanding performances, selling dross like Moreno, Mignolet, Lovren etc played no part

Simple!
Sarcasm or not!

Minemrys:

This is the mistake you guys have. He isn't really the only one, cause if you follow it well, when VVD came, the error prone guys started taking a step back, guys like Moreno, we got Robertson playing more and Trent getting into the team.
Am not discrediting VVD but putting it on the team also.
After all, VVD was in the game we played where 7 goals went past him.

That was an off game that could have happened to any team!
Even during the glory days of manutd,they got trashed by a LFC at old trafford and yet won the league!

openmine:

That was an off game that could have happened to any team!
Even during the glory days of manutd,they got trashed by a LFC at old trafford and yet won the league!

Getting trashed by arch rivals Lfc at old Trafford isn't to be considered a one off. We actually challenged for the league in those years.
Yes, the Villa game was a one off but my point is it happened not because of one person but cause the team was off.
It was until Klopp's 2nd full season that we started having a team.

openmine:

I do not deny what you are saying!
However, the narrative of Matip being the 'best defender' felt sightly odd to me and made it look as though VVD was not actually needed!
They were all average until VVD showed up and administered is leadership qualities and calmness which none of them including Matip had!
This brought the best out of Matip and Gomez and also lovren because VVD had once pair with him!

You aren't getting the argument.
The argument was of all the CBs then,Matip was the best. He was actually better than the average guys.
In games without VVD, he has actually had to stand up. That's assuming everyone in the team do their part.

Minemrys:

This is the mistake you guys have. He isn't really the only one, cause if you follow it well, when VVD came, the error prone guys started taking a step back, guys like Moreno, we got Robertson playing more and Trent getting into the team.
Am not discrediting VVD but putting it on the team also.
After all, VVD was in the game we played where 7 goals went past him.

Oh! You didn't get the sarcasm.

openmine:

Simple!

Sarcasm my friend, sarcasm

alekside:
Sarcasm my friend, sarcasm

Unfortunately your half hearted sarcasm is an indirect plus about VVD!
VVD is the one and only defender!
He leads the defence calmly and the rest follow including your dearly beloved 'world best defender' Matip!
Its as simple as that!

Minemrys:

You aren't getting the argument.
The argument was of all the CBs then,Matip was the best. He was actually better than the average guys.
In games without VVD, he has actually had to stand up. That's assuming everyone in the team do their part.

This is not true!
Games without VVD have been tough and the goals started leaking!
Case in study...LFC vs Benfica!
At this stage,we cant do without him..Its as simple as that!

Minemrys:

Getting trashed by arch rivals Lfc at old Trafford isn't to be considered a one off. We actually challenged for the league in those years.
Yes, the Villa game was a one off but my point is it happened not because of one person but cause the team was off.
It was until Klopp's 2nd full season that we started having a team.

You were alluding to VVD letting 7 goals get past him and i only showed U using that Manutd as an instance where they conceded heavily despite having a watertight defence then!

Good news LFC fans!
Thiago will likely play tomorrow!

openmine:

You were alluding to VVD letting 7 goals get past him and i only showed U using that Manutd as an instance where they conceded heavily despite having a watertight defence then!

That one is quite different. We were actually good on the day and better than United. Besides when we have always beaten United at old Trafford, it usually goes by 3 goals, 4 goals. It's not like it's a one off.
Vvd letting 7 past him was because the boys lost focus against an opponent that wasn't a derby. It's like saying we concede 7 against Everton or United. We can't cause we will be very focused.
Winning a derby is by merit.

openmine:

This is not true!
Games without VVD have been tough and the goals started leaking!
Case in study...LFC vs Benfica!
At this stage,we cant do without him..Its as simple as that!

Nope. I disagree. You make it sound like we don't keep clean sheets without VVD.
Listen, VVD is good at defense but it's also a team effort. I have seen where Vvd makes a mistake and Robbo covers for him.
Vvd has an input but it's all on the team not just him. That's the notion I want to correct.

openmine:

This is not true!
Games without VVD have been tough and the goals started leaking!
Case in study...LFC vs Benfica!
At this stage,we cant do without him..Its as simple as that!

If you talk about Benfica then what about Inter Milan or Villarreal?
It's cause the boys lacked concentration. Like against West Ham, Brentford Brighton. Van Dijk started those games.

Minemrys:

If you talk about Benfica then what about Inter Milan or Villarreal?
It's cause the boys lacked concentration. Like against West Ham, Brentford Brighton. Van Dijk started those games.

Those were just few games...the question is did such results happen consistently?
However games where he didn't feature, we suffered defensively!
Check your stats!

Minemrys:

Nope. I disagree. You make it sound like we don't keep clean sheets without VVD.
Listen, VVD is good at defense but it's also a team effort. I have seen where Vvd makes a mistake and Robbo covers for him.
Vvd has an input but it's all on the team not just him. That's the notion I want to correct.

U are entitled to your opinion!
VVD is not just great but a colossal in defence!
He brought calmness and leadership qualities to that defence that no one has ever done since the time of Sami Hyypia!
True its a team game but without VVD we are no where!
Let me ask...if you were a manager playing Real madrid or Mancity,would you pair Matip and konate knowing there is a VVD on the bench?
Input? hilarious!
Please state just 5 EPL games we played this season without VVD and did not concede!