₦airaland Forum

kabe1:
There has never been any helicopter in history of warfare that has been involved in such a complex war environment.
.

**clears throat**

The first Gulf War, Apaches and Cobras flew into formidable Iraqi airspace against experienced Iraqi AA teams and pilots armed with European and Soviet missiles...

jl115:
I don't know the details of the black hawk that was downed in Yemen but the very famous one in black hawk down(the movie) was certainly downed due to incompetence.

As for the KA-52.... Well if it was so good Russia would have bought more of it.... Instead they order more mi28s and Mi35s.... And mi28s I believe have also been deployed to Ukraine with fewer losses

Irrespective of your political leanings, the war in Ukraine is clearly the most complex war faced by humans since the end of world war 2.

The amount of firepower the Russians have brought to bear on Ukraine is unprecedented, the amount of support the Ukrainians have received from the west is also unprecedented.

I don't know the number of KA-52s or helicopters the Russians have in service. From the start of the war we've been told the Russians have only 1 weeks worth of missiles left. Open sources can never be trusted for military information, we can only use open sources for estimates (basic).

So the number of helicopters is not known, we can't say how many MI-28s, KA-52 or MI-35M's are in service with the Russians. What we know is, the Russians use the KA-52 helicopters in the most active, SAM infested environments.

The MI-35M has been rarely used for Frontline missions.

GreenandGold:
**clears throat**

The first Gulf War, Apaches and Cobras flew into formidable Iraqi airspace against experienced Iraqi AA teams and pilots armed with European and Soviet missiles...

Please be realistic. Iraqi airspace and formidable

kabe1:
Please be realistic. Iraqi airspace and formidable

I forgot, the Nigerian Air Force flies into formidable airspace in the country's NE states where random bandits can shoot down a sub-sonic jet

GreenandGold:
I forgot, the Nigerian Air Force flies into formidable airspace in the country's NE states where random bandits can shoot down a sub-sonic jet

kabe1:
Irrespective of your political leanings, the war in Ukraine is clearly the most complex war faced by humans since the end of world war 2.

The amount of firepower the Russians have brought to bear on Ukraine is unprecedented, the amount of support the Ukrainians have received from the west is also unprecedented.

I don't know the number of KA-52s or helicopters the Russians have in service. From the start of the war we've been told the Russians have only 1 weeks worth of missiles left. Open sources can never be trusted for military information, we can only use open sources for estimates (basic).

So the number of helicopters is not known, we can't say how many MI-28s, KA-52 or MI-35M's are in service with the Russians. What we know is, the Russians use the KA-52 helicopters in the most active, SAM infested environments.

The MI-35M has been rarely used for Frontline missions.

we know the mi28 has also been used in the same environment due to the fact that at least one has been shot down by Ukrainian SAMs.

Also politically I'm as neutral as they come, and couldn't give an ass who will come out on top... All I want is for the war to end because paying R25 a liter for petrol is kak...

kabe1:
Please be realistic. Iraqi airspace and formidable

my bru....he's talking about 1990 Iraq not 2003 Iraq

jl115:
my bru....he's talking about 1990 Iraq not 2003 Iraq

Yes, I'm referring to 1990 Iraq also.

jl115:
we know the mi28 has also been used in the same environment due to the fact that at least one has been shot down by Ukrainian SAMs.

Also politically I'm as neutral as they come, and couldn't give an ass who will come out on top... All I want is for the war to end because paying R25 a liter for petrol is kak...

... The highlighted is just f#cked up.

kabe1:
Yes, I'm referring to 1990 Iraq also.

Take a time machine, fly your dodo-birds into 1990 Iraqi airspace and see if they would come back.

Just to add, the SAAF flew Puma Helicopters into southern Angolan airspace, at that time it was the most actively protected airspace in Sub-Sahara and possibly the whole hemisphere... The radars covered the whole of northern Namibia, SAAF movement was detected and tracked while inside Namibia BUT still the Pumas flew into that airspace, shook off a few missiles and flew back... So, don't sing us the Russian helicopter praises.

GreenandGold:
Just to add, the SAAF flew Puma Helicopters into southern Angolan airspace, at that time it was the most actively protected airspace in Sub-Suhura and possibly the whole hemisphere... The radars covered the whole of northern Namibia, SAAF movement was detected and tracked while inside Namibia BUT the still Pumas flew into that airspace and back... So, don't sing us the Russian helicopter praises.

What's makes an airspace contested? Comparing 2 children fighting to 2 adults fighting expecting the losses to be similar and very brutal. Angolan airspace was protected , with what?...... Radars is different from sams etc, y'all love to over-hype your military too much.
Iraqi war losses according to Wikipedia(not.really credible per se) during 2003 and 2009.
I sighted over over 5 downed black hawk and their airspace then wasn't even hot compared to the 90's according to the article.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aviation_shootdowns_and_accidents_during_the_Iraq_War

davefurn:
What's makes an airspace contested? Comparing 2 children fighting to 2 adults fighting expecting the losses to be similar and very brutal. Angolan airspace was protected , with what?...... Radars is different from sams etc, y'all love to over-hype your military too much.

3 seconds of Google would have given you the answer... but anyways since you never bordered, here;

davefurn:
y'all love to over-hype your military too much.

Bro, this was the SADF, only Egypt (for the obvious reasons) had a larger military. This is no overhype.

GreenandGold:
In fact, a few of the SASFB members formally deployed in Mozas have done a few off-the-record gigs in that country before, acting as (classified) to infiltrate (classified) groups for (classified) missions before there was even "ISIL" in Mozas.

Part of the indirect cost of having a trained military next to an insecure neighbour beset by Islamic insurgency with half trained militias instead of a proper army!

GreenandGold:
Bro, this was the SADF, only Egypt (for the obvious reasons) had a larger military. This is no overhype.

Lol, Algeria, Morroco, Nigeria!!!!!

GreenandGold:
3 seconds of Google would have given you the answer... but anyways since you never bordered, here;

A country that has the largest airforce closing in to Egypt on paper in Africa but no one seems to care or hyped about it; maybe I'm missing something!!!

GreenandGold:
Truvelo CMS Sniper Rifle, same capabilities without the price tag

Are you sure? I've seen 3500$ but it was a civvy gun broker site-fk me!

Unit cost depends on the configuration of the weapon, with the "typical" example outlined above costing between $2 000 and $2 500.

[url]http://www.military-today.com/firearms/truvelo_sg1.htm/url]

That's recent. Imo, they're throwing it away at that price despite an equivalent or 50 % higher price for requisite long distance German glass.

GreenandGold:
**clears throat**

The first Gulf War, Apaches and Cobras flew into formidable Iraqi airspace against experienced Iraqi AA teams and pilots armed with European and Soviet missiles...

**clears throat**

**clears throat**

All European systems were compromised

Same for Soviet systems to a large extent

Understand that a system can be comprised in system level in best case ( than entire system useless unless target wants to get killed ) or at sub system level ( system can still be leveraged but effectiveness is sub optimal ) in worse case vis a vis the attacker

Also literally half the words EW system was in play

Imported weapons are always a liability if one goes against superior side and comedy if against those who supplied them ( monkey versions ) in the first place

If you disagree than you must agree that intelligence community of the coalition forces was piece poor at their job

davefurn:
Lol, Algeria, Morroco, Nigeria!!!!!

Do you know how powerful Nigeria's military is? This little vehicle here can shoot down all of Nigeria's Air Force fighters without even reloading

davefurn:
A country that has the largest airforce closing in to Egypt on paper in Africa but no one seems to care or hyped about it; maybe I'm missing something!!!

Reading comprehension issues here... I said "was" NOT "is"..

GreenandGold:
Do you know how powerful Nigeria's military is? This little vehicle here can shoot down all of Nigeria's Air Force fighters without even reloading

That vehicle would get blown up before it leaves Simmons Town Naval base in South Africa, and you wouldn't know what hit it.

Nemesis4you:
All European systems were compromised

Same for Soviet systems to a large extent

Export versions are not compromised, they're just export versions. It does not mean they're not lethal, all the AAMs that were fielded by Iraq had the capability to shoot down a helicopter or a dozen. Their failure to do is was a doctrine issue (Soviet doctrine to be precise), not an equipment issue.

GreenandGold:
Take a time machine, fly your dodo-birds into 1990 Iraqi airspace and see if they would come back.

You are delusional, the Iraqi's got their asses handed to them by a much weaker Iran in the Iraq-Iran war.

Till today, Iran flies Iraqi SU-25s. Iran gifted Iraq, Iraqi SU-25s. Get a load of that.

GreenandGold:
Do you know how powerful Nigeria's military is? This little vehicle here can shoot down all of Nigeria's Air Force fighters without even reloading

If wars were fought like that, damn!!! US would have thrashed Vietnam, Russia would have trampled Ukraine; Soviets would have lost the battle of stanlingrad.

kabe1:
That vehicle would get blown up before it leaves Simmons Town Naval base in South Africa, and you wouldn't know what hit it.

Juju spells don't work in the military

GreenandGold:
Juju spells don't work in the military

Laser guided bombs, ATAKA ATGMs and AR-1 ATGMs from distances greater than 25km.

GreenandGold:
Export versions are not compromised, they're just export versions. It does not mean they're not lethal, all the AAMs that were fielded by Iraq had the capability to shoot down a helicopter or a dozen. Their failure to do is was a doctrine issue (Soviet doctrine to be precise), not an equipment issue.

Doctrine issues, but that doctrine have been winning them wars despite the cost; Well, atleast their generals are not more in the comfort zone again but with their soldiers at the warfront. You guys are still salty from your loss with Cuba inwhich you won but lost at thesame time.

kabe1:
Laser guided bombs, ATAKA ATGMs and AR-1 ATGMs from distances greater than 25km.

Let him cope with denels and gripen

kabe1:
Yes, I'm referring to 1990 Iraq also.

well then you are very ill informed on the weaponry they possessed back then

GreenandGold:
Reading comprehension issues here... I said "was" NOT "is"..

Even then, They had soo much toys from Soviets but didn't even know how to use it to full capacity.

https://books.google.com.ng/books?id=P4iWDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA410&lpg=PA411&ots=Vb5kJFyg-M&focus=viewport&dq=angolan+air+defence+sams

Read the book

kabe1:
Laser guided bombs, ATAKA ATGMs and AR-1 ATGMs from distances greater than 25km.

Defense News Nigeria's prayers are working against you bro.. you are losing it.. Simmon's Town and Lagos are some 4700km apart.. In fact, that missile would not even do a return trip from the edge of Lagos.