What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? - Christianity Etc (2)

What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? - Christianity Etc (2) - Nairaland

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Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by MaxInDHouse(m): 2:59pm On Oct 21, 2022

cornelboy:
Max do you remember when I said this guy claimed that "God is a state" and he denied it?
He's saying it here again.
Athiest full everywhere o.

The only organization of faithful people is JWs it's either one stays or go and join the atheists.

Jesus declared that all faithful people will be in one organization with Jesus and his father {John 17:22} everyone of them will know the difference between Jesus and his father {John 17:3} the rest will continue to seek what suits their thinking which will give room for diversity hence they can never agree on the same line of thought, so spiritually speaking they are SCATTERED! Luke 11:23

1 Like

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by elated177(op): 6:59pm On Oct 21, 2022

budaatum:
My antecedents, lol. Jesus did not tell you that. What he said was he "will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth".

But I guess you, world that you are, cannot accept him because you neither see nor know him.

Don't confuse yourself, budaatum.

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by budaatum: 7:05pm On Oct 21, 2022

elated177:
Don't confuse yourself, budaatum.

Don't confuse you, you mean.

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by Janosky: 10:17pm On Oct 21, 2022

elated177:
El Elohe Yahshrael!

[b] John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with YHVH, and the Word was YHVH.

The Word of YHVH Almighty cannot be separated from YHVH Almighty, they are one.

Is the Tetragramatton YHVH @ John 1:1?
You placed it there to DISTORT holy scriptures. grin

According to your claim on John 1:1 "the Word",
@ John 17:17, is Jesus Christ refering to himself as "your Word"?
No,not at all.

Oga, let's examine the holy scriptures.

Deuteronomy 6:6
"Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah: 5 and thou shalt love Jehovah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be upon thy heart"

John 17:17, Yahweh's word is all instructions @ Deuteronomy 6:6 and every command from Yahweh the God whom Jesus Christ obeyed, John 12:49.
Your Word at John 17:17 is instructions, command of Yahweh @ Deuteronomy 10:17 & elsewhere in your Bible.
@ John 1:1,"the word" is being with different from your Word, (instructions)
[/b]

elated177:
John 1: 18 No one has ever seen YHVH, but the one and only Son, [b]who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.[/b]

El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu YAH!

, [b"]who is himself God" [/b] is a Trinitarian insertion into the holy scriptures.

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by elated177(op): 11:30pm On Oct 21, 2022*

Apt.

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by elated177(op): 11:36pm On Oct 21, 2022

Janosky:
Is the Tetragramatton YHVH @ John 1:1?
You placed it there to DISTORT holy scriptures.

Janosky, watchtower member, point out the differences in the Scriptures below.

Deut 8:3 He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your ancestors had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of YHVH.
Vs

Matthew 4: 4 Yahushua answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’

Deut 6: 16 Do not put the LORD your God to the test as you did at Massah.

Vs

Matthew 4: 7 answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

Isaiah 61: The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me,because the LORD has anointed me
    to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
    to proclaim freedom for the captives
    and release from darkness for the prisoners,
2 to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor
    and the day of vengeance of our God,
to comfort all who mourn,

Vs

Luke 4: 18“The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

Deut 6: 13 Fear the LORD your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name.

Vs

Matthew 4:10 Yahushua said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”

There are others, but take care of those ones first.

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by elated177(op): 11:39pm On Oct 21, 2022

Janosky:
According to your claim on John 1:1 "the Word",
@ John 17:17, is Jesus Christ refering to himself as "your Word"?
No,not at all.

I don't think you made much sense by that assertion. However, hear this, janosky:

John 14: 8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Yahushua answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by elated177(op): 11:43pm On Oct 21, 2022

Janosky:
Oga, let's examine the holy scriptures.

Deuteronomy 6:6
"Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah: 5 and thou shalt love Jehovah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be upon thy heart"

John 10:30 I and the Father are one.”

Janosky:
John 17:17, Yahweh's word is all instructions @ Deuteronomy 6:6 and every command from Yahweh the God whom Jesus Christ obeyed, John 12:49.
Your Word at John 17:17 is instructions, command of Yahweh @ Deuteronomy 10:17 & elsewhere in your Bible.
@ John 1:1,"the word" is being with different from your Word, (instructions)
[/b]

Throw more light here so I can get what you are espousing clearly.

Janosky:
, [b"]who is himself God" [/b] is a Trinitarian insertion into the holy scriptures.

I don't know what you were on about.

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by elated177(op): 12:05pm On Nov 04, 2022

Janosky, did you run away?

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by Janosky: 12:39pm On Nov 05, 2022

elated177:
John 10:30 I and the Father are one.”

I will give three Points explanation with holy scriptures.
Point #1.
Deuteronomy 6:5 has already explained verse 4.
[b]And these words, which I command thee.
Oga, are you learning & AGREE that your YHVH of Deuteronomy 6:4-5 is "I"?
Deuteronomy 6:4-5 your YHVH is NEVER "I" & another being, which you claim in John 10:30.

Point #2.
Is Greek 2316 Theos (God) written in John 10:30?
No, definitely!
You are adding to the scriptures by adding ('Theos' to John 10:30).
Did Jesus say Theos @ John 10:30?
No....

Point #3.
John 17:21-22 Jesus, the disciples & his Father "Are one."
The Greek expression "are one" mean the same thing @ Matthew 19:4-5, John 10:30 & John 17:21-22.
Do you understand that 1 Corinthians 11:3 have a direct bearing on John 17:21-22, John 10:30 & Matthew 19:4-5?[/b]

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by Janosky: 12:40pm On Nov 05, 2022

elated177:
Janosky, did you run away?

No sir.
I'm back again.

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by Janosky: 12:48pm On Nov 05, 2022*

elated177:
"who is himself God”

"Who is himself God"
Bible translators ADDED, INSERTED that phrase into the holy Bible @ John 1:18.

John 1:18 correct version translation : "only begotten god"/son."
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by Janosky: 1:16pm On Nov 05, 2022*

elated177:
I don't think you made much sense by that assertion. However, hear this, janosky:

John 14: 8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Yahushua answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10[b] Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? [/b]The words I say to you [/b]; I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

Oga,Believe the statement of Jesus Christ in your Bible. John 14:10-11 = John 17:21-22.
Please note the bolded Viz a vix your claim.

21 that all of them may be one,Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.(C) 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me ,that they may be one as we are one—.
********

**

Jesus is in the Father @ John 14:10.
The disciples /Jesus is in the Father, @John 17:21-22.
That is Jesus response to your claim on John 14:10-11
There is NOTHING Trinitarian about John 14:10-11 and John 17:21-22. ONENESS of the disciples with God our Father and Jesus Christ his Son is Unity of purpose just as Man and wife are one is unity of purpose (in marriage)
The same manner Paul and Apollos are One.

John 17:17 Jesus says "your word is truth."
"Your word" @ John 17:17 is NOT Jesus Christ.

John 14:10 Jesus said "The words I say to you", is "your (his Father's ) Word" @ John 17:17 & John 7:16 & John 15:15.
Oga, do you now understand?
John 14:10 "The words I say to you "( @ John 17:17)" is the doctrine our Heavenly Father instructed Jesus to teach @ John 7:16 & John 15:15.
Shalom.

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by elated177(op): 1:39pm On Nov 05, 2022

Janosky:
Oga,Believe the statement of Jesus Christ in your Bible. John 14:10-11 = John 17:21-22.
Please note the bolded Viz a vix your claim.

21 that all of them may be one,Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.(C) 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me ,that they may be one as we are one—.
********

**

Jesus is in the Father @ John 14:10.
The disciples /Jesus is in the Father, @John 17:21-22.
That is Jesus response to your claim on John 14:10-11
There is NOTHING Trinitarian about John 14:10-11 and John 17:21-22. ONENESS of the disciples with God our Father and Jesus Christ his Son is Unity of purpose just as Man and wife are one is unity of purpose (in marriage)
The same manner Paul and Apollos are One.

John 17:17 Jesus says "your word is truth."
"Your word" @ John 17:17 is NOT Jesus Christ.

John 14:10 Jesus said "The words I say to you", is "your (his Father's ) Word" @ John 17:17 & John 7:16 & John 15:15.
Oga, do you now understand?
John 14:10 "The words I say to you "( @ John 17:17)" is the doctrine our Heavenly Father instructed Jesus to teach @ John 7:16 & John 15:15.
Shalom.

I will hold on to mine. Hold onto yours. It is quite obvious that we are never going to agree on any of the issues raised here.

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by Janosky: 2:01pm On Nov 05, 2022

elated177:
Janosky, watchtower member, point out the differences in the Scriptures below.

Deut 8:3 He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your ancestors had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of YHVH.
Vs

Matthew 4: 4 Yahushua answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’

Deut 6: 16 Do not put the LORD your God to the test as you did at Massah.

Is Jesus "every word that comes from the mouth of YHVH @ Deuteronomy 8:3 given to the Israelites?
Did Jesus quote Deuteronomy 8:3 @ Matt 4:4. Did Jesus tell you that Deuteronomy 8:3 reference Jesus as "The Lord your God"?

elated177:
Vs

Matthew 4: 7 answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

Isaiah 61: The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me,because the LORD has anointed me
    to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
    to proclaim freedom for the captives
    and release from darkness for the prisoners,
2 to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor
    and the day of vengeance of our God,
to comfort all who mourn,

Vs

Luke 4: 18“The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

Deut 6: 13 Fear the LORD your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name.

Vs

Matthew 4:10 Yahushua said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”

There are others, but take care of those ones first.

Matthew 4:7,10, Luke 4:18, Deuteronomy 6:13 & Isaiah 61:1 is Jesus referenced as "the Lord your God?"
Isaiah 61:1 ,Matthew 12:15-18, Luke 4:18 did Jesus Christ reference himself as "me" NOT the lord your God?"

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by Janosky: 2:07pm On Nov 05, 2022

elated177:
I will hold on to mine. Hold onto yours. It is quite obvious that we are never going to agree on any of the issues raised here.

However this fact espoused by Jesus is crystal clear.
John 17:21-22, the disciples is in the Father & Jesus. "Just as you are in me, they also be in us".
Therefore, John 14:10-11 = John 17:21-22.
If you see your Trinity in John 14:10-11, see your Trinity too in John 17:21-22 with the disciples.

1 Corinthians 3:8,English Standard Version.
He who plants and he who waters [b] (Paul & Apollos) are one," "just as we (Jesus and his Father) are one," John 17:21-22.
Or argue against your deity Jesus Christ.
Shikena![/b]

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by elated177(op): 4:24pm On Nov 05, 2022

Janosky:
Is Jesus "every word that comes from the mouth of YHVH @ Deuteronomy 8:3 given to the Israelites?
Did Jesus quote Deuteronomy 8:3 @ Matt 4:4. Did Jesus tell you that Deuteronomy 8:3 reference Jesus as "The Lord your God"?

Matthew 4:7,10, Luke 4:18, Deuteronomy 6:13 & Isaiah 61:1 is Jesus referenced as "the Lord your God?"
Isaiah 61:1 ,Matthew 12:15-18, Luke 4:18 did Jesus Christ reference himself as "me" NOT the lord your God?"

You don't make discussion flow well when you mention Scriptures without quoting them fully. Go back and find out why I gave you those Scriptures for comparison.

If you really want to have a Scriptural discourse, quote them whenever you mention them.

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by elated177(op): 4:28pm On Nov 05, 2022

Janosky:
However this fact espoused by Jesus is crystal clear.
John 17:21-22, the disciples is in the Father & Jesus. "Just as you are in me, they also be in us".
Therefore, John 14:10-11 = John 17:21-22.
If you see your Trinity in John 14:10-11, see your Trinity too in John 17:21-22 with the disciples.

1 Corinthians 3:8,English Standard Version.
He who plants and he who waters [b] (Paul & Apollos) are one," "just as we (Jesus and his Father) are one," John 17:21-22.
Or argue against your deity Jesus Christ.
Shikena![/b]

Where else will the Word of YHVH Almighty be? Was the Word with the Father from the beginning. Janosky, stop confusing yourself.

Unless you prepare your mind to accept the truth, janosky, any scriptural discourse with you can as well be a wasting of time and energy.

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by elated177(op): 4:31pm On Nov 05, 2022

Janosky, how many gods do you have and worship?

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by sonmvayina(m): 5:31pm On Nov 05, 2022

Janosky:
Is the Tetragramatton YHVH @ John 1:1?
You placed it there to DISTORT holy scriptures.

According to your claim on John 1:1 "the Word",
@ John 17:17, is Jesus Christ refering to himself as "your Word"?
No,not at all.

Oga, let's examine the holy scriptures.

Deuteronomy 6:6
"Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah: 5 and thou shalt love Jehovah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be upon thy heart"

John 17:17, Yahweh's word is all instructions @ Deuteronomy 6:6 and every command from Yahweh the God whom Jesus Christ obeyed, John 12:49.
Your Word at John 17:17 is instructions, command of Yahweh @ Deuteronomy 10:17 & elsewhere in your Bible.
@ John 1:1,"the word" is being with different from your Word, (instructions)
[/b]

, [b"]who is himself God" [/b] is a Trinitarian insertion into the holy scriptures.

How did you know it wasn't there in the beginning ?

1 Like

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by sonmvayina(m): 5:37pm On Nov 05, 2022

elated177:
I will hold on to mine. Hold onto yours. It is quite obvious that we are never going to agree on any of the issues raised here.

And both of you are reading from the same new testament.

Just a "peace" of advice. When you are confused about something in the Bible, look for the first time it was used in the Bible...

1 Like

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by elated177(op): 8:49pm On Nov 05, 2022

sonmvayina:
And both of you are reading from the same new testament.

Just a "peace" of advice. When you are confused about something in the Bible, look for the first time it was used in the Bible...

National adviser. Mtcheeeeew!

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by sonmvayina(m): 9:38pm On Nov 05, 2022

elated177:
National adviser. Mtcheeeeew!

It is common sense

I guess you don't have it..

You go to the first time it was used ....

1 Like

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by elated177(op): 10:05am On Nov 06, 2022

sonmvayina:
It is common sense

I guess you don't have it..

You go to the first time it was used ....

When they have nothing to say, they resort to emptiness.

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by Janosky: 6:26pm On Nov 06, 2022

sonmvayina:
How did you know it wasn't there in the beginning ?

Oga, please do the needful. Greek interlinear of the New Testament plentiful online.

1 Like

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by Janosky: 6:31pm On Nov 06, 2022

elated177:
Janosky, how many gods do you have and worship?

JWs stand with Jesus Christ.
John 20:17. Our God is his God.
Our heavenly Father is his heavenly Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6," there is ONLY One God, the Father.
Deuteronomy 10:17 the Father is the God (ho Theos ) of gods.
1 Corinthians 3:23 Jehovah's servants belong to the God as Jesus belong to the God.

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by Janosky: 6:39pm On Nov 06, 2022

elated177:
Where else will the Word of YHVH Almighty be? Was the Word with the Father from the beginning. Janosky, stop confusing yourself.

Unless you prepare your mind to accept the truth, janosky, any scriptural discourse with you can as well be a wasting of time and energy.

The Word has a Father, our God.
The Word came forth from his Father our God.
Oga,did you come forth from your Father?

Colossians 1:15= Genesis 49:3.
Jesus Christ is a Creature (Revelation 3:14 & Mark13:19).
"The beginning of Creation which God created."
Psalm 90:2, did God born the mountains with pregnancy?

Every first born is a Creature.

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by elated177(op): 7:32pm On Nov 06, 2022

Janosky:
The Word has a Father, our God.
The Word came forth from his Father our God.
Oga,did you come forth from your Father?

Colossians 1:15= Genesis 49:3.
Jesus Christ is a Creature (Revelation 3:14 & Mark13:19).
"The beginning of Creation which God created."
Psalm 90:2, did God born the mountains with pregnancy?

Every first born is a Creature.

You are not ready.

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by Janosky: 7:42pm On Nov 06, 2022

elated177:
You are not ready.

Or Elated 177 is NOT READY to believe Psalm 90:2, Colossians 1:15, Genesis 49:3 , Revelation 3:14& Mark 13:19 PROVEN Jesus Christ is a Creature. .

Every first born in the holy scriptures is a Creature.
Biblical Fact .

Shalom.

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by elated177(op): 12:51pm On Nov 07, 2022

Janosky:
Or Elated 177 is NOT READY to believe Psalm 90:2, Colossians 1:15, Genesis 49:3 , Revelation 3:14& Mark 13:19 PROVEN Jesus Christ is a Creature. .

Every first born in the holy scriptures is a Creature.
Biblical Fact .

Shalom.

When you are ready, inform me.

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by Janosky: 2:41pm On Nov 07, 2022

elated177:
When you are ready, inform me.

I espoused the scriptural Fact you are uncomfortable with.
When you delete Psalm 90:2, Colossians 1:15, Genesis 49:3 , Revelation 3:14& Mark 13:19 from your Bible, please inform me.
grin

Re: What If John 1:1 Was Put This Way? by Janosky: 2:49pm On Nov 07, 2022

elated177:
Where else will the Word of YHVH Almighty be? Was the Word with the Father from the beginning. Janosky, stop confusing yourself.

Oga, these scriptures in your Bible (Colossians 1:15, Genesis 49:3 , Revelation 3:14& Mark 13:19) are not rocket science.

Revelation 3:14 Jesus Christ told you what you need to know about his antecedents.

elated177:
Unless you prepare your mind to accept the truth, janosky, any scriptural discourse with you can as well be a wasting of time and energy.

You worship 2 persons Jesus Christ and his Father.
John 20:17,did Jesus Christ agree with your stand?
No !

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