₦airaland Forum

I don't think there is any problem with that if it is well implemented as it no different with the current salary structure. For example with the current structure employees are expected to work 8hours/day, 40hours/week and 160hours/month in the event one is sick he is expected to take sick leave and his salary will still be paid in full. the advantage of this is to checkmate the unproductive government workers who take their employment as their share of national cake by limiting they pay to the of numbers work.

Nigerians work 12 to 14 hours daily on 30k salary. What's humane about that. Hourly payment is better for us. Obi is coming

Maybe I'm not getting it right. In the so-called advanced countries y'all talk about, both hourly and salary payment systems are adopted. Employees can register as independent contractors (paid hourly) and take full control the period they want to work and when they don't. Employers can also save by hiring such workers for jobs that are considered temporary (e.g software projects) while still having permanent salaried employees. So introducing that to the country won't eliminate the salary system but give both the employer and employee choices, right? It has consequences for both parties, but they can always opt out, right? Educate me, please.

onumadu:
Those countries are trailblazers and the world is fortunate to have them do what they have done, so that the rest of the world don't repeat their mistakes.
That is why the happiest among them are SCANDINAVIAN countries that practice something close to a fixed salary/income system.
In fact, the happiest among those countries are the ones that practice fixed income of some sort.
Go and verify.
They are working their ways back, while ignorant Nigerians are advocating we go back to where those countries are fleeing.

Scanfinavia is wealthy, and their population is few, and jobs are high paying.
And their govt takes care of a lot for them.

Most Nigerians are either underemployed or unemployed.
Bills are everywhere, and govt is non-existent.
We need hourly rates.

socialmediaman:
Onumadu hourly rate won’t be applicable to everyone. One thing hourly rate brings to the table is helping to curb the issue of overworking mostly lower level employees

At hourly rates, the government can enforce overtime payments which isn’t available to salary workers. This way an employer can employ multiple workers instead of employing 1 person and paying them the same salary but working them long hours

Salary system was invented when the world was still not ruled by pure greed.
Overtime payment is inherently assumed in the salary system. That is why you still get paid even if you stay away sick for long periods.
You sacrifice your overtime payment for your other days of non-work due to whatever human reason.
You cannot have it all. It is supposed to be a give and take world.
No party should be cheated, whether employer or employee.
Fixed pay is a just HUMAN/HUMANE system.
Even if all employers replace workers with robots, the government can then force a fixed income of sorts to keep society human.
It is easier to go from a salary system (paid by employers) to a fixed income paid by businesses and government, than to do so from an hourly payment system.

etrange:
Maybe I'm not getting it right. In the so-called advanced countries y'all talk about, both hourly and salary payment systems are adopted. Employees can register as independent contractors (paid hourly) and take full control the period they want to work and when they don't. Employers can also save by hiring such workers for jobs that are considered temporary (e.g software projects) while still having permanent salaried employees. So introducing that to the country won't eliminate the salary system but give both the employer and employee choices, right? It has consequences for both parties, but they can always opt out, right? Educate me, please.

Let me try:
The reason we are even raising/discussing this issue is because a leading presidential candidate included it in a manifesto.
Which means that it can become GOVERNMENT POLICY.
The implication is enormous.
On the face value, it looks good, but the devil is in the detail or rather the vicissitudes of its implementation.

onumadu:
But it is calculated at hourly rate.
What I can't even understand is how a LABOUR PARTY candidate can touch this issue.

With hourly pay, you don't have to force anybody to come to work, people will get to work early, rather than claiming traffic, traffic.

With Hourly pay, African time will instantly be a thing of the past. Nigerians will naturally start respecting time.

CSTRR:
Scanfinavia is wealthy, and their population is few, and jobs are high paying.
And their govt takes care of a lot for them.

Most Nigerians are either underemployed or unemployed.
Bills are everywhere, and govt is non-existent.
We need hourly rates.

But the problem is unemployment or underemployment. Not payment structure.
Like someone (was that you?) said, a Nigerian worker gets paid something like N30k/month, and yet the employer still owes him or her?
What makes you think that the employer would even pay the hourly rate when due?
Greed is a slippery slope.
Let's not introduce something that can worsen workers existing precarious situation.
I can't understand how a Labour party candidate would touch this, even with a long stick.

You cannot develop a society to world-class standards without competition and not everybody wins in a competitive economy.

You're talking about people exhausting their sick days while still being sick, how about we improve our healthcare system to make people fit quickly?

If it is working in major economies, why can't it work in Nigeria? Why are you resisting positive change? Go to government offices and see how people get paid for gisting 70% of the time

onumadu:
Some of you are just irredeemable, but some of us who know (and have seen) better owe it a duty to save innocent Nigerians in Nigeria.
When you say that your slaving system "moved entire populations from poverty to a strong middle class country", you don't say the number of homelessness in such system compared with Nigeria that is supposed to be underdeveloped.
You should simply provide counter argument/evidence rather than insult. You provided none.
Ain't gat time for kids.

CSTRR:
And yet you will cry that Nigeria is the poverty capital of the world

Schools have increased their fees by 100%

Inflation is high and prices are not going back to where t was before.

Hourly rates are necessary so that the populace can earn multiple income.

Students can work for some hours to pay school fees and feed.

That is enough reason to vote for Peter obi.

many of you don't lean and not ready to bcs you take everything as politics. Many of you had never enter labour market but best you know is theories and insult . Hourly pay in developed country is meant for unskill workers not official I stand to be corrected. The only advantages of those that are working Hourly abroad is just an exchange rate . Now back to Nigeria If to practice what is in abroad here is like calling someone to clear your Gutters, clean your room, care for your old one or work in a Factory hourly .mind you Nigeria currency will be used as payment . Then where is the job in Nigeria to practice this? Hourly pay practice in Nigeria will throw many Nigeria on unemployment. But once many of you only believe whatever comes out from where you put your interest is the right and best one.

MarketDispatch:
With hourly pay, you don't have to force anybody to come to work, people will get to work early, rather than claiming traffic, traffic.

With Hourly pay, African time will instantly be a thing of the past. Nigerians will naturally start respecting time.

Good point, but have you addressed the traffic jam problem?
How much road infrastructure have been developed to ensure free movement of people?
First world countries built all those infrastructure first before experimenting with hourly payment system, from which some of them are stepping back.

DMerciful:
You cannot develop a society to world-class standards without competition and not everybody wins in a competitive economy.

You're talking about people exhausting their sick days while still being sick, how about we improve our healthcare system to make people fit quickly?

If it is working in major economies, why can't it work in Nigeria? Why are you resisting positive change? Go to government offices and see how people get paid for gisting 70% of the time

Why do you think Nigerians in diaspora vacation in Nigeria? You think it is all about family? lol
Well, una go learn the hard way sha.

onumadu:
Let me try:
The reason we are even raising/discussing this issue is because a leading presidential candidate included it in a manifesto.
Which means that it can become GOVERNMENT POLICY.
The implication is enormous.
On the face value, it looks good, but the devil is in the detail or rather the vicissitudes of its implementation.

Government policy, enormous, vicissitudes, none of the words actually tells me what the concerns are. Let's get to those details and see the devil. What are these extreme consequences that would make us outrightly reject the introduction hourly payment system? No country uses the hourly payment system alone. It's always there as an option. No establishment can survive with only hourly paid employees because they are contractors that either get renewed after a period or they move on. So there's no possibility of that taking away the salaried/permanent employment. Besides, some people in Nigeria are already paid hourly. So when you fear it might become a policy, what is the concern? I personally believe the policy will standardize it and make such employees have contract numbers for management and even protection.

Honestly, the only I see here is the usual fear of change. People (especially the older ones) always get nervous when the system they know so well is about to change. They see it as a threat and start kicking against it without good reasons.

I live in Canada, it works!

You can't develop a country by paying people for unproductivity

onumadu:
Why do you think Nigerians in diaspora vacation in Nigeria? You think it is all about family? lol
Well, una go learn the hard way sha.

onumadu:
I like Obi/Datti and have been campaigning for them all these while. However, someone should please tell them that the hourly payment is not good for Nigerians. Nigeria has a lot of problems, but Nigeria also has a lot of good socioeconomic practices, some of which Nigerians have taken for granted because they don't know better. One of such practices is SALARY payment system.

In developed countries, the people who get paid salaries are top executives of companies, therefore on its face value, it may seem like a good idea to scrap the salary system in Nigeria. However if you have lived in developed countries, you would see that the get-paid-as-you-work system has many systemic problems. One of such problems is the dehumanizing nature of the system.
It is a system that can easily (and often does) replaces human workers with robots.

In many cases, the human workers are even forced to train customers to use robots, essentially training for their own future unemployment.
The salary system is an inherently human/humane system that takes into consideration the workers humanity. When a worker gets sick or unable to work, he/she still gets paid in full, because they have human commitments.

In a get-paid-as-you-work system, once a worker gets sick, s/he only gets paid for yearly assigned sick-off days, which usually lasts for about one month or six weeks max. Once the worker exhausts the sick-off days, s/he is only limited to getting part payment for government approved disability days, which is also usually exhausted quickly (matter of 3 months max), and the worker is then faced with all kinds of economic problems, which usually ends in homelessness. It happens fairly often. Getting sick in such a system is usually the cause of most homelessness. You risk being homeless once you get sick!

When I was in Nigeria, and one of my kids got sick and was rushed to a private children's hospital, the nurse that attended to us had an infant child who she brought with her to work. The baby was sleeping in a small bed next to her, and that was fine. The whole place felt human and normal, and we even enjoyed the company of her new baby. You cannot have such in a developed country, but that is the point of the humanity of the Nigerian system.

Though we often lament the lack of development in Nigeria, we should always be mindful that some of those things that develop a country also dehumanize the country.

Salary system humanizes a country, while the get-paid-as-you-work dehumanizes and creates a lot of social problems. Everything cannot be monetized; some things are beyond money.

Someone should please advise Obi-Datti to drop the get-paid-as-you-work idea, and focus on improving what Nigeria is already doing right. Salary system should be strengthened rather than replaced.

We should not jump from frying pan to fire.



Nlfpmod
Mynd44

Ths sole aim of using the hourly system is to increase productivity. To increase output, to increase gdp. Nigerians are lazy and paying you for doing nothing will not make us grow. There is a lot of waste in the system, you are paid based on what you invest in the system which is your time and energy while the system rewards you with bettet standard of living. The reason why you are enjoying obodo oyibo is because of productivity, everybody is doing their bit even the person packing shit but come to Nigeria ordinary to staple document the person will tell you to come back tommorow. If you are paid per hour you would beg people to staple their work because you would be looking for things to engage you and in the process the system is churning out results. Another thing obi should do is to level up the country, make going to lagos unattractive, create opportunities all over Nigeria and the best way is to increase productivity.

onumadu:
Some of you are just irredeemable, but some of us who know (and have seen) better owe it a duty to save innocent Nigerians in Nigeria.
When you say that your slaving system "moved entire populations from poverty to a strong middle class country", you don't say the number of homelessness in such system compared with Nigeria that is supposed to be underdeveloped.
You should simply provide counter argument/evidence rather than insult. You provided none.
Ain't gat time for kids.

homelessness can be caused by several factors and is not an indices to use. He is right, a good example is china and india. Those guys work for their money, only in Nigeria that we reward laziness.

etrange:
Government policy, enormous, vicissitudes, none of the words actually tells me what the concerns are. Let's get to those details and see the devil. What are these extreme consequences that would make us outrightly reject the introduction hourly payment system? No country uses the hourly payment system alone. It's always there as an option. No establishment can survive with only hourly paid employees because they are contractors that either get renewed after a period or they move on. So there's no possibility of that taking away the salaried/permanent employment. Besides, some people in Nigeria are already paid hourly. So when you fear it might become a policy, what is the concern? I personally believe the policy will standardize it and make such employees have contract numbers for management and even protection.

Honestly, the only I see here is the usual fear of change. People (especially the older ones) always get nervous when the system they know so well is about to change. They see it as a threat and start kicking against it without good reasons.

As you noted in the first bolded words, the system already includes both payment system.
The problem is that if Obi government makes it GOVERNMENT POLICY, it becomes the dominant system and once Nigerian employers see the loop holes as I have already shared in my earlier comments, they will abuse it. Ask yourself why there are LOTS of homeless people in first world countries. Nigeria is poorer, but we don't have them in similar numbers. WHY? It is a combination of social and economic reasons.

@Your second bolded words, what an elder sees sitting down a child cannot see even if he climbs Mt Everest.

onumadu:
But dignity in labour is inherent and not something you impose.
A good worker (in either system) has dignity and is diligent -always.
Hourly pay is a slippery slope that makes employers greedier and greedier up to the point of replacing workers with machines and robots.
Honestly, Nigerians don't know that even some developed countries envy them in ways that they won't understand until they make that mistake. I can bet that a lot of developed countries workers rue the day they adopted this pay as you go system.
Everything is not about money. Only philosophers can understand this thing.
A Labour party candidate shouldn't even be caught dead near this system.

You have to impose it. Look at Nigeria, if not for oil, I dont think you would be saying this. How do i guage your output? Even places that pay monthly salary, they overwork them to stupor and sack them flimsy reasons but if I can guage an employee by the number of hours worked and I can be able to gauage performance and in the process reward deserving employees.

onumadu:
Salary system was invented when the world was still not ruled by pure greed.
Overtime payment is inherently assumed in the salary system. That is why you still get paid even if you stay away sick for long periods.
You sacrifice your overtime payment for your other days of non-work due to whatever human reason.
You cannot have it all. It is supposed to be a give and take world.
No party should be cheated, whether employer or employee.
Fixed pay is a just HUMAN/HUMANE system.
Even if all employers replace workers with robots, the government can then force a fixed income of sorts to keep society human.
It is easier to go from a salary system (paid by employers) to a fixed income paid by businesses and government, than to do so from an hourly payment system.

I see your perspective though I don’t quite agree with it. I have been calling for hourly payments for long now due to how workers are overworked in Nigeria

You’re jumping to a perfect salary system where employers are considerate to their employees, which isn’t available anywhere in the world, and isn’t achievable in Nigeria either. How do you ensure humaneness when all you have is human beings motivated by different things?

Employers want as much profit as possible. They already think they’re paying too much in taxes, salaries, mistakes while figuring their businesses out and competing with rivals.

Employers themselves work long hours which they also expect from their staff for their businesses to get ahead of the competition, so they will never be humane to their workers though they feel they are, that’s where the government comes in to ensure the employees are not cheated

onumadu:
But it is calculated at hourly rate. You get paid exactly how many hours you worked. Period.
If you have malaria (as is often the case in Nigeria), TOUGH LUCK.
I can't recall how many times people have told me that they have malaria/typhoid in Nigeria -annually.
On this new scale, they are on their own.
It is a sure way to increase in homelessness.
Try and see.
Throw in the fact that Nigeria employers are already abusing workers, then you get the lesson.
What I can't even understand is how a LABOUR PARTY candidate can touch this issue.

If you are sick, you call in sick. Probably, their might be sick support. By the way if you are sick then try and treat yourself. Dont justify sickness as a reason. So I can claim sickness and still collect salary? Why not turn Nigeria to a full socialist state and buy bread for 1m naira?

jesmond3945:
Ths sole aim of using the hourly system is to increase productivity. To increase output, to increase gdp. Nigerians are lazy and paying you for doing nothing will not make us grow. There is a lot of waste in the system, you are paid based on what you invest in the system which is your time and energy while the system rewards you with bettet standard of living. The reason why you are enjoying obodo oyibo is because of productivity, everybody is doing their bit even the person packing shit but come to Nigeria ordinary to staple document the person will tell you to come back tommorow. If you are paid per hour you would beg people to staple their work because you would be looking for things to engage you and in the process the system is churning out results. Another thing obi should do is to level up the country, make going to lagos unattractive, create opportunities all over Nigeria and the best way is to increase productivity.

Do you know how many Nigerian doctors left Nigeria this year alone?
Go and find out HOW MUCH THEY WERE PAID before they chose to leave.
The single most important reason Nigerians leave Nigeria is POOR PAY. Or rather poor purchasing power of the money they get paid.
My smart bet is that once the politicians stop stealing and actually deliver infrastructure, businesses will start springing up in all nooks of Nigeria. Once businesses flourish, the general economy will grow and Naira will strengthen.
Just 24/7 electricity alone can do all these wonders!
Proof? We had a brief period under Yar adua/Jonathan when Nigerians abroad started going back home to start businesses and employ people.
Productivity can NEVER happen unless infrastructure is developed.
A good government should FOCUS ON INFRASTRUCTURE DEVELOPMENT rather than experimenting with something they scarcely understand.

Peterobi90:
Well AI or robotic workers still have a very very long way before it gains inroads into Nigeria.. hourly pay makes work flexible.. I could decide to spend vacation with my fam and my employer would employ another to replace me.. no rigorous resignation period alongside it makes the employer accord respect to me and my Job description due to endless trainings for new intake whom could resign the next hour.

Okay, how do you think your employer generates money to pay you salary?
For example, you are supposed to serve 10 customers a day but you serve only 3 and use your time for vacation, how do you expect your employer to pay you for 3 customers when he is supposed to pay you for 10 customers?

onumadu:
Those countries are trailblazers and the world is fortunate to have them do what they have done, so that the rest of the world don't repeat their mistakes.
That is why the happiest among them are SCANDINAVIAN countries that practice something close to a fixed salary/income system.
In fact, the happiest among those countries are the ones that practice fixed income of some sort.
Go and verify.
They are working their ways back, while ignorant Nigerians are advocating we go back to where those countries are fleeing.

what is the gdp of scadinavian countries? They pay you salary but tax you heavily.

jesmond3945:
If you are sick, you call in sick. Probably, their might be sick support. By the way if you are sick then try and treat yourself. Dont justify sickness as a reason. So I can claim sickness and still collect salary? Why not turn Nigeria to a full socialist state and buy bread for 1m naira?

No economic policy can end JIPITI anywhere in the world.
Nigeria already has a national Id card system which can be used to verify workers attendance.
You should not kill a fly with a sledgehammer.
BTW the Scandinavian countries I referenced earlier are (if you look closely) almost "socialist". Even in France, Germany et al.
We are in 21st century and cannot be intimidated by labels.
What matters is that we fight to ensure that our HUMAN system endures as long as possible.
If you are Nigerian, I believe it is your duty too.
I support Peter Obi, but will never support his idea to bring in a system from which its founders are already fleeing.
I owe that duty of faith to my children and other clueless kids here in Nairaland.

jesmond3945:
what is the gdp of scadinavian countries? They pay you salary but tax you heavily.

And what is wrong with that? Why are they happier than others?
"GDP" is a worthless matrix when human lives are concerned.
That is why certain "third world countries" enjoy things that some first world countries only dream of.

onumadu:
Do you know how many Nigerian doctors left Nigeria this year alone?
Go and find out HOW MUCH THEY WERE PAID before they chose to leave.
The single most important reason Nigerians leave Nigeria is POOR PAY. Or rather poor purchasing power of the money they get paid.
My smart bet is that once the politicians stop stealing and actually deliver infrastructure, businesses will start springing up in all nooks of Nigeria. Once businesses flourish, the general economy will grow and Naira will strengthen.
Just 24/7 electricity alone can do all these wonders!
Proof? We had a brief period under Yar adua/Jonathan when Nigerians abroad started going back home to start businesses and employ people.
Productivity can NEVER happen unless infrastructure is developed.
A good government should FOCUS ON INFRASTRUCTURE DEVELOPMENT rather than experimenting with something they scarcely understand.

doctors left for several reasons and not only pay. The conditions of service, the condition of the country and so on. You can only see infrastructure if the people are productive. Infrastructure is the job of the government to bolster productivity and in the process enjoy more taxes. Go to the villages nothing is going on, the young people are busy scamming, the ladies are busy selling their bodies, there is grave danger bro when the young people, the hope of the nation are not being engaged. As Nigeria dey so can you gladly pay your taxes to the government?

onumadu:
No economic policy can end JIPITI anywhere in the world.
Nigeria already has a national Id card system which can be used to verify workers attendance.
You should not kill a fly with a sledgehammer.
BTW the Scandinavian countries I referenced earlier are (if you look closely) almost "socialist". Even in France, Germany et al.
We are in 21st century and cannot be intimidated by labels.
What matters is that we fight to ensure that our HUMAN system endures as long as possible.
If you are Nigerian, I believe it is your duty too.
I support Peter Obi, but will never support his idea to bring in a system from which its founders are already fleeing.
I owe that duty of faith to my children and other clueless kids here in Nairaland.

How many places have the id being used to verify attendance or you are just making claims. I used the word productive. That you go to work doesnt mean you are productive. They are not fully socialist. They are more capitalist and some aspect of socialism. A full social state is venezuela. A human system that left Nigeria as the poverty capital?

onumadu:
And what is wrong with that? Why are they happier than others?
"GDP" is a worthless matrix when human lives are concerned.
That is why certain "third world countries" enjoy things that some first world countries only dream of.

because the tax is not spread but rather paid at once which is not palatable. GDP worthless matrix? I am done bro. EOD

Stupid govt workers already crying on the thread...

They know hourly pay with stop all their trashy nonchalant behaviours....

This pay as you work system is exactly what Nigeria needs now. If you have lived abroad you will know this system really benefits the masses more, one can actually give account of his earnings and how his time is spent, it will also boost productivity and the economy at large as all parties involved both employees and employers would make the best of their 24 hour per day.
No more laziness as time will be the new currency, which is what it is literarily and people can easily switch inbetween jobs.

This thread is getting interesting.
Now I know some people are opposing Obi because corruption is enriching them.

How can you continue doing same thing over and over again and expect something different?
The funny thing is that those opposing the proposed hourly wage system have not seen Badagry border before let alone leaving the country.

onumadu:
I like Obi/Datti and have been campaigning for them all these while. However, someone should please tell them that the hourly payment is not good for Nigerians. Nigeria has a lot of problems, but Nigeria also has a lot of good socioeconomic practices, some of which Nigerians have taken for granted because they don't know better. One of such practices is SALARY payment system.

In developed countries, the people who get paid salaries are top executives of companies, therefore on its face value, it may seem like a good idea to scrap the salary system in Nigeria. However if you have lived in developed countries, you would see that the get-paid-as-you-work system has many systemic problems. One of such problems is the dehumanizing nature of the system.
It is a system that can easily (and often does) replaces human workers with robots.

In many cases, the human workers are even forced to train customers to use robots, essentially training for their own future unemployment.
The salary system is an inherently human/humane system that takes into consideration the workers humanity. When a worker gets sick or unable to work, he/she still gets paid in full, because they have human commitments.

In a get-paid-as-you-work system, once a worker gets sick, s/he only gets paid for yearly assigned sick-off days, which usually lasts for about one month or six weeks max. Once the worker exhausts the sick-off days, s/he is only limited to getting part payment for government approved disability days, which is also usually exhausted quickly (matter of 3 months max), and the worker is then faced with all kinds of economic problems, which usually ends in homelessness. It happens fairly often. Getting sick in such a system is usually the cause of most homelessness. You risk being homeless once you get sick!

When I was in Nigeria, and one of my kids got sick and was rushed to a private children's hospital, the nurse that attended to us had an infant child who she brought with her to work. The baby was sleeping in a small bed next to her, and that was fine. The whole place felt human and normal, and we even enjoyed the company of her new baby. You cannot have such in a developed country, but that is the point of the humanity of the Nigerian system.

Though we often lament the lack of development in Nigeria, we should always be mindful that some of those things that develop a country also dehumanize the country.

Salary system humanizes a country, while the get-paid-as-you-work dehumanizes and creates a lot of social problems. Everything cannot be monetized; some things are beyond money.

Someone should please advise Obi-Datti to drop the get-paid-as-you-work idea, and focus on improving what Nigeria is already doing right. Salary system should be strengthened rather than replaced.

We should not jump from frying pan to fire.



Nlfpmod
Mynd44

But that's why things work in other civilised countries , not somebody sitting down chewing gum frustrating people just to get a bribe.....if na me be Obi I go do pay based on productivity..