₦airaland Forum

pizzzy:
Goodluck tried to remove it we had issues with his decision,now what would have been the right time to make his announcement?

First step is to sit down with NLC and all other sector heads, as well as investors to iron out the path forward!

This would form the clear basis of implementation!

Once everyone is on the same page, you announce!

Up till now, more than 80 percent of Nigerians don't even know Jack about the whole Subsidy issue... What efforts have gone into educating and explaining the key points to citizens especially the unlearned ones?!!

Even religious houses and cultural heads can be reached out to in order to disseminate this issue to their people!


This can take weeks to months, while also setting up processes to mitigate the effects!

This was the same mistake Jonathan made then... He rushed the whole process!

This is not a dictatorship, you know!!!

By the time the right steps are taken, people would be ready to take the shock...! The dissenting opinions would be highly in the minority!

Cloudflare:
Same way Tinubu love Nigeria but distracted GEJ govt? He even mobilized the entire nation and tore GEJ govt apart, he frustrated GEJ until Jonathan bowed to pressure and left. Is it the same Tinubu you are talking about?

At times, I no know whether na super glue just dey una Brain

I swear! some people speak through their anus or just talk for the sake of having made a speech.

Senseless people everywhere

Jokerman:
What about businesses that don't make use of petrol, will there be an increase in their services and goods?

Mention one thing that doesn't make use of fuel?

Even beggars make use of transportation.

If you're selling goods in a store and fuel hikes. I believe you'd sell for same price as before?

If you have a company and fuel hikes, even if you don't produce anything rather than rendering services, you'd definitely have workers who make use of fuel one way or the other. Their transport won't be the same, food also and other stuffs. This means their wages won't be enough for them anymore. Hence, better efficiency means improved wage structure for them. So, you charge your clients more. This open up competition and you may lose some clients who won't meet your price.

Everyone is affected. There's no business anywhere that's not affected, possibly, the dead. Inasmuch you feed, buy stuff and do other things with money, you're in business with another person. And cost of production determines how much you can buy, only if you're stupendously rich. In fact, you'd be affected.

Angelfrost:
You are speaking high grammar...!

This means nothing to over 100 Million working and suffering Nigerians!

If you want this to work, it has to be mitigated as much as possible!

Matter of fact, you are supposed to start by halving and cutting down drastically all government expenditures across arms of government especially Executive and Judiciary!

You want the citizens to pay for such a needed policy with their blood and tears while politicians continue to live like kings!!!


Labor is merely doing the needful!!!... They should have sat with them and ironed out such gray areas before even announcing the removal!

When you don't carry Labor along in such a critical economic move, you create such avoidable crisis.

Well said.

Employing twenty thousand guards to be paid N75k each comes to N20B a year and less than what we spend on subsidy in two days.
Before removing it they said the subsidy wasnt benefitting the masses again and that the smuggling was far more than actual local consumption but after removing the subsidy they are now saying only 30% will be affected.
That means they plan to inflate the actual figure for more corruption.

olatade:
If we all love Nigeria, nobody will do anything to distract Tinubu at this critical time.

But you people didn't love Nigeria in 2012, what changed?

wirinet:
Because we have over 40 billion barrels of proven oil reserves and over 5 trillion cubic metres of gas reserves. If corrupt political elites allow our refineries to work and exploit our gas reserves, we could sell petrol and gas to Nigerians at any price we like. We could even start exporting petrol and other oil products instead of export crude and importing petrol.

And the refineries have not been working because for decades we have been selling petrol, and until 2013, kerosene, diesel and company below the production price.

Which is why subsidy was removed in time for Dangote's refinery to be opened, it was because if it was not removed, Dangote won't make a profit, and his refinery would break down...because it can't make enough proft.

Then there is the harsh fact that we do not control oil prices. Nigeria is a member of OPEC. Right now, OPEC is meeting with the sole aim of cutting oil production to raise prices. If we go against OPEC and raise production....we would end up pushing the oil price down. For nothing. And where does that leave our revenue.? We can start selling all the oil reserves we have now, and oil prices would fall

Remember when Saudi let oil flow run like the wild mustangs on an American prarie. Oh yes, prices fell, the US oil industry whom the action was targeted at did not blink an eye, but we poor nations suffered.

Oh yes, subsidy means that the sector is not profitable enough to earn enough cash to open more fields...then there is the stealing going on by corrupt officals and by the local people in the name of resource control..(not that I blame them, their governments don't do nothing).

At the end of the day, if we want to be a prosperous nation we have to start doing things like improving our income from tax, moving away from oil, and removing subsides. We have done the subsidy part. As to whether this APC government would do the others...well, we shall see. I am not hopeful at all.


(P.S I am not saying we should not fight corruption or stop stealing or overlook bad governance, by the way.).

nairalanda1:
And the refineries have not been working because for decades we have been selling petrol, and until 2013, kerosene, diesel and company below the production price.

Keyword - Production price!!! What is the production price of Kerosene, diesel and petrol in Nigeria? There has to be production first before we start talking about Production price. Why is it that the government used our money to build 4 refineries and then later decided that government is not in the business of doing business and then refused to operate those refineries?
Why are we the ones to pay for government's corruption and incompetence?

Which is why subsidy was removed in time for Dangote's refinery to be opened, it was because if it was not removed, Dangote won't make a profit, and his refinery would break down...because it can't make enough proft.

Mute excuse. First the issue is not with the petroleum products themself but the price at which the crude oil is being sold to dangote or other refineries. Please note that 300,000 barrels per day for is allocated for local consumption and presently we produce just above 1.2 million barrels per day. At our highest we were producing 2.4 million barrel. So what happened to our allocations for local consumption?

We are not supposed to be buying diesel kerosene and petrol from foreign refineries. We were told we had a crude to petroleum products swap with foreign refineries, what happened? why do we still pay for the petroleum products?

As per Dangote, we would have preferred government enter the same crude swap agreement with Dangote. Government could give his refinery our allocated 300,000 barrels per day crude and get kerosene, diesel and crude in return. It will eliminate the long chain of corruption taking it abroad to refine.

Then there is the harsh fact that we do not control oil prices. Nigeria is a member of OPEC. Right now, OPEC is meeting with the sole aim of cutting oil production to raise prices. If we go against OPEC and raise production....we would end up pushing the oil price down. For nothing. And where does that leave our revenue.? We can start selling all the oil reserves we have now, and oil prices would fall

Opec control crude prices, they don't control petroleum products or gas prices. Why not go the finished products route instead of lazily selling raw crude. We own the crude. We can decide to refine all our crude like the US, China, Canada and co, instead of being at the mercy of OPEC.

Remember when Saudi let oil flow run like the wild mustangs on an American prarie. Oh yes, prices fell, the US oil industry whom the action was targeted at did not blink an eye, but we poor nations suffered.

Oh yes, subsidy means that the sector is not profitable enough to earn enough cash to open more fields...then there is the stealing going on by corrupt officals and by the local people in the name of resource control..(not that I blame them, their governments don't do nothing).

At the end of the day, if we want to be a prosperous nation we have to start doing things like improving our income from tax, moving away from oil, and removing subsides. We have done the subsidy part. As to whether this APC government would do the others...well, we shall see. I am not hopeful at all.


(P.S I am not saying we should not fight corruption or stop stealing or overlook bad governance, by the way.).

We are only subsidizing corrupt political elites and their officials. I don't see why me whose father land is awash with crude willbe forced to buy petroleum products at international prices determined in Riyadh, Newyork or Brussels.

nairalanda1:
The government has just let the sale of petrol operate under the prinicples of the free market, and you are claiming they seized property?

Oga, if you like, let them keep the subsidy. Run for office and get them to keep the subsidy. But I don't understand a policy where we buy petrol above N300 and sell it below N200.

If you like, call me an oppressor, call me a Tinubu supporter. You already are calling me one. But as for me, we can't sustain the subsidy.

And yes, it makes me sad....but it would be worse if the subsidy monster overwhelms the revenue we have.

Good afternoon. Finis.

Free market where government still seize factors of production? which is any land that oil is found in. If the government want to practice free market economy as is done in the US, they should let the owners of the lands crude and gas is discovered in to control their lands or at least let the states control their resources, whether crude, gold, diamond, cocoa, tomatoes, etc.

wirinet:
Free market where government still seize factors of production? which is any land that oil is found in. If the government want to practice free market economy as is done in the US, they should let the owners of land crude and gas is discovered in to control their lands or at least let the states control their resources, whether crude, gold, diamond, cocoa, tomatoes, etc.

Goverment has not seized any forms of production.

NNPC is now private plus people are allowed to sell fuel at market price.

Subsidy was not working anymore

Time to.face the.cold hard truth.

nairalanda1:
Goverment has not seized any forms of production.

NNPC is now private plus people are allowed to sell fuel at market price.

Subsidy was not working anymore

Time to.face the.cold hard truth.

I am not talking about fuel. I am referring to the crude itself. Government control all lands that crude oil is found in. That's against the tenets of true capitalism.

wirinet:
I am not talking about fuel. I am referring to the crude itself. Government control all lands that crude oil is found in. That's against the tenets of true capitalism.

Erm but the people that extract thw crude are free to sell it at international prices not at goverment set prices.

Plus crude oil wells belong to the owners once they paid the price.

Has nothing to do.with subsidy.

I'm ending our discussion here. Subsidy ain't suatainable. You don't want to accept it. I can't force you to.

Good evening

nairalanda1:
The government has just let the sale of petrol operate under the prinicples of the free market, and you are claiming they seized property?

Oga, if you like, let them keep the subsidy. Run for office and get them to keep the subsidy. But I don't understand a policy where we buy petrol above N300 and sell it below N200.

If you like, call me an oppressor, call me a Tinubu supporter. You already are calling me one. But as for me, we can't sustain the subsidy.

And yes, it makes me sad....but it would be worse if the subsidy monster overwhelms the revenue we have.

Good afternoon. Finis.

Small question. Do you think it right that in Nigeria (the country with the highest amount of poor people in the world) the people should purchase PMS at the same price now, as it sells for in the USA - the wealthiest country in the world?

MadarasBlade:
But you people didn't love Nigeria in 2012, what changed?

Nothing

nairalanda1:
The government has just let the sale of petrol operate under the prinicples of the free market, and you are claiming they seized property?

Oga, if you like, let them keep the subsidy. Run for office and get them to keep the subsidy. But I don't understand a policy where we buy petrol above N300 and sell it below N200.

If you like, call me an oppressor, call me a Tinubu supporter. You already are calling me one. But as for me, we can't sustain the subsidy.

And yes, it makes me sad....but it would be worse if the subsidy monster overwhelms the revenue we have.

Good afternoon. Finis.

Tell me how d common man on d street will benefit rite now or 2/3 months from now pls don't tell me benefits of faraway future

franciskaine:
which gas price is down?

CNG

mayor1814:
Tell me how d common man on d street will benefit rite now or 2/3 months from now pls don't tell me benefits of faraway future

K.

jesmond3945:
and price of goods will come down? Will it ever come down. Remember if minimum wage is increased, price of goods will still go up.

wages increment won't solve ds actually.

A cheaper transportation means and alternative to petrol will be the one to help out

nairalanda1:
Erm but the people that extract thw crude are free to sell it at international prices not at goverment set prices.

Plus crude oil wells belong to the owners once they paid the price.

Has nothing to do.with subsidy.

I'm ending our discussion here. Subsidy ain't suatainable. You don't want to accept it. I can't force you to.

Good evening

I know you don't understand. You are probably a member of the big three tribes (well two) that enjoy the present Nigerian arrangement, where crude oil is situated in the Niger delta but enjoyed mainly by the north and south west.
Let me break it down for you. Over 90% of Nigeria's revenue (meaning money used to run the government is obtained from sale of crude). Now over 70% of this crude is gotten from the Niger Delta. These are Nigerdeltan whose land is seized by the Nigerian state and then sold to multinational foreign companies and their Nigerian cronies. The people who owned the land lose all rights to the lands. The government just settle a few chiefs, elders and youths and the do as they like. That's the same model the colonial powers used to exploit and subjugate natives. Now that's a digression that's a whole chapter on its own.

Now back to subsidy. What we the Nigerdeltans are saying is that we have crude under our feet. We agree that we submit that crude to the Nigerian state for the common good. But what do we get in return, outside pollution, civil strife and neglect? Ordinary to buy petrol gotten from crude from our lands, you are telling us to buy at international price. Boys bust pipeline or oil wells and start selling the crude themselves, you arrest them and brand them thieves. Meanwhile the political elites are stealing the oil in supertankers.

Now let me brake it down further. The cost of refining Nigeria's crude is about $30 per barrel after removing all production costs. So even if price of crude internationally is $100, the remaining is still profit. Why should I an itsekiri man or an ijaw man be buying petrol produced with crude at $100 per barrel? Is it the government subsidizing me or me subsidizing the government at a crude price above $30 per barrel.

If you say subsidy is not sustainable, how then was Obasanjo able to sustain subsidy and at the same time pay up all our debt, hosted two huge international events and still left over $40 billion in our external reserves for Yaradua?

Once again, we are subsidizing corruption and not fuel.

Healthquest:
wages increment won't solve ds actually.

A cheaper transportation means and alternative to petrol will be the one to help out

Don't mind them, we have been removing subsidy since the 80s and each time inflation will rise, naira will fall and we will start discussing subsidy once again.

Abeg helep me ask Subsidy removal proponents how Abacha was able to do it despite all the corruption allegedly uncovered in his administration. Abacha increased petrol prices from N11 to N14 and gave the extra N3 to Buhari's PTF for infrastructure like roads, university buildings, etc. Till today we could see those infrastructure.please remember Abacha did not even borrow $1 from anyone despite crude prices never going beyong $16 per barrel, at a time it fell as low a $8.
Abacha must have been a miracle worker.

olatade:
If we all love Nigeria, nobody will do anything to distract Tinubu at this critical time.

But he distracted GEJ for his selfish ambition. The price must go back to old price. APC and their supporters will not know joy.

wirinet:
Don't mind them, we have been removing subsidy since the 80s and each time inflation will rise, naira will fall and we will start discussing subsidy once again.

Abeg helep me ask Subsidy removal proponents how Abacha was able to do it despite all the corruption allegedly uncovered in his administration. Abacha increased petrol prices from N11 to N14 and gave the extra N3 to Buhari's PTF for infrastructure like roads, university buildings, etc. Till today we could see those infrastructure.please remember Abacha did not even borrow $1 from anyone despite crude prices never going beyong $16 per barrel, at a time it fell as low a $8.
Abacha must have been a miracle worker.

yeap.


Govt need to move away from massive petrol consumption and also make sure we have excess petrol imported by everyone.

Price will fall because we have good numbers of nice guy that will enter d market.
Bovas and few others are very nice people who are doing well with price and have fear of God

wirinet:
I know you don't understand. You are probably a member of the big three tribes (well two) that enjoy the present Nigerian arrangement, where crude oil is situated in the Niger delta but enjoyed mainly by the north and south west.
Let me break it down for you. Over 90% of Nigeria's revenue (meaning money used to run the government is obtained from sale of crude). Now over 70% of this crude is gotten from the Niger Delta. These are Nigerdeltan whose land is seized by the Nigerian state and then sold to multinational foreign companies and their Nigerian cronies. The people who owned the land lose all rights to the lands. The government just settle a few chiefs, elders and youths and the do as they like. That's the same model the colonial powers used to exploit and subjugate natives. Now that's a digression that's a whole chapter on its own.

Now back to subsidy. What we the Nigerdeltans are saying is that we have crude under our feet. We agree that we submit that crude to the Nigerian state for the common good. But what do we get in return, outside pollution, civil strife and neglect? Ordinary to buy petrol gotten from crude from our lands, you are telling us to buy at international price. Boys bust pipeline or oil wells and start selling the crude themselves, you arrest them and brand them thieves. Meanwhile the political elites are stealing the oil in supertankers.

Now let me brake it down further. The cost of refining Nigeria's crude is about $30 per barrel after removing all production costs. So even if price of crude internationally is $100, the remaining is still profit. Why should I an itsekiri man or an ijaw man be buying petrol produced with crude at $100 per barrel? Is it the government subsidizing me or me subsidizing the government at a crude price above $30 per barrel.

If you say subsidy is not sustainable, how then was Obasanjo able to sustain subsidy and at the same time pay up all our debt, hosted two huge international events and still left over $40 billion in our external reserves for Yaradua?

Once again, we are subsidizing corruption and not fuel.

A lot of what you have said here which you think is correct and makes you smart and knowledgeable is actually wrong. Let me debunk them one by one.

90% of Nigerias revenue does not come from oil. It’s 90% of foreign exchange that comes from oil. Oil revenues currently make up about 60% of Nigeria’s revenue.

I can’t speak to every land in the niger delta but for the oil company I am very,very familiar with, there are land rents paid to the communities on whose lands the oil facilities are. Of course an oil company cannot deal with every individual in a community one by one. However if the chiefs and traditional rulers are scamming their own people, there is not a lot that oil companies can do about that.

I can’t argue whether cost of refining a barrel is $30 or not. But I do know for a fact that depending on the oil company and the terrain, unit development cost of a barrel of oil could be anywhere from $10 to $30 (that’s the cost of exploring for the oil, appraising the find if any and the developing the infrastructure to produce it). Remember that you might spend $50mln for an exploratory well and find nothing. Then you come to unit operating cost (that’s salaries, admin, production expenses, indirect taxes, nddc fees, host community fees, finance, security, legal, hse etc). Again depending on the company and terrain, it ranges from $10 to $30 per barrel. If you take the upper limit of those plus your refining cost, that comes to $90 per barrel ba?

On Obasanjos time, there are lots of actors at play, oil production level then vs now, oil price then vs now, volume of cars on the roads then vs now, population then vs now.

Obasanjo was President at a time just after military rule. How many people could afford cars back then. There is no doubt that middle class really boomed in obasanjos era and so many young people bought cars for the first time in that era when banks were really expanding rapidly and employing as well and the gsm companies.

There is a lot of difference between 2.2million barrels a day of that era and 1.3 million barrels of today. That 900k difference is more than some countries total production that they survive on like Gabon, Algeria, Ghana, Equatorial Guinea etc

Of course corruption is probably much worse in Jonathan and Buhari era compared to Obasanjo era.

wirinet:
Don't mind them, we have been removing subsidy since the 80s and each time inflation will rise, naira will fall and we will start discussing subsidy once again.

Abeg helep me ask Subsidy removal proponents how Abacha was able to do it despite all the corruption allegedly uncovered in his administration. Abacha increased petrol prices from N11 to N14 and gave the extra N3 to Buhari's PTF for infrastructure like roads, university buildings, etc. Till today we could see those infrastructure.please remember Abacha did not even borrow $1 from anyone despite crude prices never going beyong $16 per barrel, at a time it fell as low a $8.
Abacha must have been a miracle worker.

Bros, we have never removed subsidy. We increased the prices from time to time to reduce subsidy, but never removed it.

Besides you are talking almost 30years ago. The state of the Nigerian and global economies of 30years ago and now is not the same. $16 in 1997 has purchasing power of about $30 today.

Nigerias population has almost doubled in that time, consisting of mostly young people who will buy cars and generators. Think back to the military era, how many people had generators back then. It was quite a big deal for those who had. Now almost everybody has. Even those in batcha have I pass my neighbour. Also back then this okada craze wasn’t a thing. Now there are probably like 5million bikes in the country. So it’s reasonable to see Nigerias petrol consumption increasing dramatically between then and now.

Check the price of a new Camry is US in 1997 and in 2023 and tells me if it’s the same. Not to talk of here, where we have to factor devaluation into the equation again.

nairalanda1:
As If you were a businessman, would you allow government to set your prices so that they can 'help the poor'?

Will a sensible government restrict oil importation license to nnpc alone and allow 4 refineries to die?

hssd8nland:
Hmmm this is the initial test for PBAT. If he doesn't handle this well it can affect his govenerment till he finishes his tenure . He needs to stay firm with his decisions and policies and act swift.

Stand firm on a careless pronouncement that has thrown the nation into chaos?

Why do all APC supporters like lies so much? This was how you urged kept encouraging Buhari to decimate Nigeria for 8 years. Y'all have started again

Iamzik:
Will a sensible government restrict oil importation license to nnpc alone and allow 4 refineries to die?

Refinereis died because the inherent price controls that make subsidy possible prevented them from making a profit

NNPC became the sole importer because it was costing goverment too much money to subsidse private importers.

nairalanda1:
Refinereis died because the inherent price controls that make subsidy possible prevented them from making a profit

NNPC became the sole importer because it was costing goverment too much money to subsidse private importers.

You can't "remove subsidy" and still fix prices

This is price hike just like the buhari days. Deregulate the downstream and issue importation licenses to independent marketers and fix the refineries. That's the only way you can have price competition. Anything short of that is just pure price hike and labour understands this very well.

This hike will have multiplier effects on everyone except the political class who are not willing to make any sacrifice from their bogus allowances

Iamzik:
You can't "remove subsidy" and still fix prices

Well, the price list is NNPC's new price setting....they are now free to set prices as the market dictates. Same for independent marketers too.

The problem with subsidy is that prices are fixed below the production cost.

This is price hike just like the buhari days. Deregulate the downstream and issue importation licenses to independent marketers and fix the refineries. That's the only way you can have price competition. Anything short of that is just pure price hike and labour understands this very well.

1.Refineries are being fixed.
2.The government has opened the room for people to apply for import licences.
3.More refineries are coming.

This hike will have multiplier effects on everyone except the political class who are not willing to make any sacrifice from their bogus allowances

[/quote]So, you want us to keep borrowing to pay the subsidy, till IMF tells us they can't keep giving us money?

You want us to keep paying for subsidy until we have no money for other things?

Okay.

Iamzik:
Stand firm on a careless pronouncement that has thrown the nation into chaos?

Why do all APC supporters like lies so much? This was how you urged kept encouraging Buhari to decimate Nigeria for 8 years. Y'all have started again

My friend shift, and why must i agree or fall inline with your own candidate why ? ... I said what i said , everyone is entitled to his/her opinion stop shoving how you feel or thinking down peoples throat.