₦airaland Forum

For me, hell is simply the complete absence of God in a place or a system.

If God is the author of anything good, then the complete absence of God will mean the complete presence of everything bad.

If you will break this down, tons of books can be written.

No matter how bad things may seem now, the fact that God is present moderates the evil you see. Hell is a place where God grants the wishes of those who chose to reject Him by simply saying, "as you wish". God will not be there. If the absence of God is unimaginable then you get the point; hell's evil cannot be imagined.

Well, according to the scriptures, you are wrong.


Psalm 139:8 NKJV - If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.

So he'll is just the place where rejected souls go to shortly before they together with hell itself are cast into the lake of fire. It is an eternal separation from God, not that God is not there. He knows what's happening anywhere in the universe

Gagare1:
■ For me, hell is simply the complete absence of God in a place or a system. If God is the author of anything good, then the complete absence of God will mean the complete presence of everything bad. If you will break this down, tons of books can be written. No matter how bad things may seem now, the fact that God is present moderates the evil you see. Hell is a place where God grants the wishes of those who chose to reject Him by simply saying, "as you wish". God will not be there. If the absence of God is unimaginable then you get the point; hell's evil cannot be imagined.

Where do you get this idea that a complete absence of God in a place or system is even possible?

By the way, are you attempting to speak figuratively of hell in this life or what?

Gagare1:
For me, hell is simply the complete absence of God in a place or a system.

If God is the author of anything good, then the complete absence of God will mean the complete presence of everything bad.

If you will break this down, tons of books can be written.

No matter how bad things may seem now, the fact that God is present moderates the evil you see. Hell is a place where God grants the wishes of those who chose to reject Him by simply saying, "as you wish". God will not be there. If the absence of God is unimaginable then you get the point; hell's evil cannot be imagined.

Who is doing the punishing in hell?

Maynmann:
Who is doing the punishing in hell?

Hell is a reward for choices made. I am of the opinion that God, having given us freewill, is bound by His Word to allow us exercise that power. But we must also own up to the results of our choices. If your choice in this life is "I don't want to submit to God", then God will accept your choice by withdrawal from you in the next life. So the pains of hell is not really God choosing to torment you. No. It is simply you experiencing what you willingly chose: God leaving you alone, as you willed.

It doesn't sound like punishment, but harvest.

Gagare1:
Hell is a reward for choices made. I am of the opinion that God, having given us freewill, is bound by His Word to allow us exercise that power. But we must also own up to the results of our choices. If your choice in this life is "I don't want to submit to God", then God will accept your choice by withdrawal from you in the next life. So the pains of hell is not really God choosing to torment you. No. It is simply you experiencing what you willingly chose: God leaving you alone, as you willed.

It doesn't sound like punishment, but harvest.

That’s not how free will works, free Will should come with no conditions.
How is choosing your choices, i mean making use of your free will take you go to hell?
What’s now the essence of the free will if you can’t freely will what you want?
If a visitor comes to your house and you offer them different fruit and that they can choose anyone they like, yet you later tell them only certain fruits are allowed to be eaten in your house, where is now the choice you gave them to freely choose the fruit they like?

So people in hell are harvesting what, their choices?

Maynmann:
That’s not how free will works, free Will should come with no conditions.
How is choosing your choices, i mean making use of your free will take you go to hell?
What’s now the essence of the free will if you can’t freely will what you want?
If a visitor comes to your house and you offer them different fruit and that they can choose anyone they like, yet you later tell them only certain fruits are allowed to be eaten in your house, where is now the choice you gave them to freely choose the fruit they like?

So people in hell are harvesting what, their choices?

You have the freedom to make choice but once you make the choice you don't have the freedom not to recieve the consequence.
A criminal has the choice not to do crime but once he commits crime he loses his freedom.

Steep:
You have the freedom to make choice but once you make the choice you don't have the freedom not to recieve the consequence.
A criminal has the choice not to do crime but once he commits crime he loses his freedom.

That’s not free will then, if there are consequences to my choices then how is it a free will?

But if you tel the criminal he has the free choice to do anything, then go back and punish him for doing anything, you are not been honest and sincere, why tell him in the first place he can do anything?
There’s no law in any constitution that says you can do anything you like, regulations are spelt out and if you break it you will be punished.

Maynmann:
That’s not how free will works, free Will should come with no conditions.
How is choosing your choices, i mean making use of your free will take you go to hell?
What’s now the essence of the free will if you can’t freely will what you want?

So people in hell are harvesting what, their choices?

Very interesting!

Check this out:
So you decided to build a mansion with hundreds of well furnished rooms. Everything in the mansion is elite grade. You also reserve a room, just like the others, where the house documents are kept. Then, you found a homeless person and offered him the complete management of the mansion. He should treat the mansion AS his home, make any necessary decisions concerning the mansion. You told that person, "you can do whatever you like in this house, live in the house and take care of it. All I ask is that you remember and acknowledge that the house is mine. Therefore, to remind you of my ownership of the house, I am placing a limit on that one room reserved for me. You can take care of the room, just like the others, but don't use the room as yours. This is simply to remind you that you are enjoying someone's benevolence.

So after some time in the mansion, having enjoyed all it has to offer, this person felt like, "why the hell should I not use that room? I am now the owner of this house. And to prove my elevated status, I will claim it as mine by using the owner's room."

But that singular act carries a deep meaning. It means you no longer acknowledge the rightful owner of the house. This automatically means you have eaten your cake, therefore you can't still have it. Refusing to acknowledge the rightful owner is the same as choosing to vacate the mansion. So when you become homeless again, is that a punishment or a result of you choice?

God gave you freewill and respects your choices, the least you can do is respect his own will too.

You can't live your life in disregard for God and expect to reap the same result with those who regarded God.

That is not how freewill works.

Maynmann:
That’s not free will then, if there are consequences to my choices then how is it a free will?

But if you tel the criminal he has the free choice to do anything, then go back and punish him for doing anything, you are not been honest and sincere, why tell him in the first place he can do anything?
There’s no law in any constitution that says you can do anything you like, regulations are spelt out and if you break it you will be punished.

Can you punish a computer for not functioning well? If not why?

Steep:
Can you punish a computer for not functioning well? If not why?

How is it the computer fault?
And “punishing” it will do what?

Gagare1:
Very interesting!

Check this out:
So you decided to build a mansion with hundreds of well furnished rooms. Everything in the mansion is elite grade. You also reserve a room, just like the others, where the house documents are kept. Then, you found a homeless person and offered him the complete management of the mansion. He should treat the mansion AS his home, make any necessary decisions concerning the mansion. You told that person, "you can do whatever you like in this house, live in the house and take care of it. All I ask is that you remember and acknowledge that the house is mine. Therefore, to remind you of my ownership of the house, I am placing a limit on that one room reserved for me. You can take care of the room, just like the others, but don't use the room as yours. This is simply to remind you that you are enjoying someone's benevolence.

So after some time in the mansion, having enjoyed all it has to offer, this person felt like, "why the hell should I not use that room? I am now the owner of this house. And to prove my elevated status, I will claim it as mine by using the owner's room."

But that singular act carries a deep meaning. It means you no longer acknowledge the rightful owner of the house. This automatically means you have eaten your cake, therefore you can't still have it. Refusing to acknowledge the rightful owner is the same as choosing to vacate the mansion. So when you become homeless again, is that a punishment or a result of you choice?

God gave you freewill and respects your choices, the least you can do is respect his own will too.

You can't live your life in disregard for God and expect to reap the same result with those who regarded God.

That is not how freewill works.

“I am placing a limit on that one room reserved for me.”
You have already limited the free will of the person in the house.
I don’t think you understand what “freewill” means.

Maynmann:
“I am placing a limit on that one room reserved for me.”
You have already limited the free will of the person in the house.
I don’t think you understand what “freewill” means.

Please educate me on what freewill is.

And, does freewill implies a complete absence of responsibility for actions taken?

Gagare1:
Please educate me on what freewill is.

And, does freewill implies a complete absence of responsibility for actions taken?

Freewill. 2 words.
Free- not costing or charging anything.
Will- used to express desire, choice, willingness.
freewill- expressing your choice and desires without any cost.


Once you have laws and consequences that someone has to follow it’s no more free will.

Gagare1:
For me, hell is simply the complete absence of God in a place or a system.

If God is the author of anything good, then the complete absence of God will mean the complete presence of everything bad.

If you will break this down, tons of books can be written.

No matter how bad things may seem now, the fact that God is present moderates the evil you see. Hell is a place where God grants the wishes of those who chose to reject Him by simply saying, "as you wish". God will not be there. If the absence of God is unimaginable then you get the point; hell's evil cannot be imagined.

++++++++

You are correct in part... it is a separation from GOD (or the second death)... just like the separation of the spirit and body causes physical death. Yet, it is imperative to let the Holy Bible - GOD's inerrant word - define all things:

Hell...

Mark 9:48
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 22:13
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Maynmann:
Freewill. 2 words.
Free- not costing or charging anything.
Will- used to express desire, choice, willingness.
freewill- expressing your choice and desires without any cost.


Once you have laws and consequences that someone has to follow it’s no more free will.

Deep. Very deep. Going by this, who is free?

Gagare1:
Deep. Very deep. Going by this, who is free?

Everyone is and everyone is not.

Maynmann:
How is it the computer fault?
And “punishing” it will do what?

Then why punish criminals for crime if they don't have freewill?

Steep:
Then why punish criminals for crime if they don't have freewill?

You can only be a “criminal” if you break a law.
If you are a criminal under that law then you will be treated like one.
So whose law?

Maynmann:
You can only be a “criminal” if you break a law.
So whose law?

So how is it the criminals fault that he broke a law since he doesn't have freewill?

Steep:
So how is it the criminals fault that he broke a law since he doesn't have freewill?

How did the person become a “criminal”?
Who created the law?

Maynmann:
How did the person become a “criminal”?
Who created the law?

The term criminal assumes that he or she has free will?
If freewill does not exist, then crime is non existent, and those labeled as criminals are not guilt since they have no free will, right?

Maynmann:
Everyone is and everyone is not.

How do you mean?

Steep:
The term criminal assumes that he or she has free will?
If freewill does not exist, then crime is non existent, and those labeled as criminals are not guilt since they have no free will, right?

Why are you contradicting yourself.
Where did you get the definition of this “the term criminal assumes that he or she has free will?”

Who said free will does not exist?

Gagare1:
How do you mean?

What Is the opposite of free?

Maynmann:
Why are you contradicting yourself.
Where did you get the definition of this “the term criminal assumes that he or she has free will?”

Who said free will does not exist?

You are the one contradicting yourself.
You said how does a person (who don't have free will) commit a crime which means accountability can only be required from free agent.

Steep:
You are the one contradicting yourself.
You said how does a person (who don't have free will) commit a crime which means accountability can only be required from free agent.

You can’t have crimes without laws.
So what will he be commit?

Steep:
You are the one contradicting yourself.
You said how does a person (who don't have free will) commit a crime which means accountability can only be required from free agent.

No, stop confusing yourself, i said if you have freewill you can’t commit a crime.

HELL simply means GRAVE a place of inactivity!

Maynmann:
No, stop confusing yourself, i said if you have freewill you can’t commit a crime.

Lol, you are reinstating my point, so people who commit crime do not have freewill, so why are they punished for they were programmed or forced to do?

Steep:
Lol, you are reinstating my point, so people who commit crime do not have freewill, so why are they punished for they were programmed or forced to do?

Which crimes are they committing in the first place?
If there are laws that they CANNOT break, where is the free will in that society?

Do you think you have free will in Nigeria to do whatever you want?
You can’t even wear army clothes.

If you have free will you can’t break any law.
If there is no law, there is no crime.
Once someone is under a law, they have limited freedom.

Hell is Tinubu's Nigeria, handed to him by Buhari