₦airaland Forum

Janosky:
@ John 1:1 rendition: " the word was a god."

The Word, Came from God and is Born by God, so it must be A God! John 3:6

Dtruthspeaker:
See jw speaking with reservation on the matter

Jude expressly shows that Arc Michael is less than Jesus.

But when the archangel Michael contended with the Devil and disputed about the body of Moses, he did not dare to bring a condemnation of slander against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" (Jude 9).

And Who is The Lord?

Jesus is The Lord!

Michael is obviously not the Lord. He could not rebuke the Devil on his own, but rather called upon the Lord to rebuke him. Jesus has no such problem with the Devil - He personally rebuked him, since He is the Lord.

Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.' " Then the Devil left Him, and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him (Matthew 4:10,11).

And in John 8. Jesus directly calls Satan a Liar thereby bringing a condemnation of slander on Satan. What Arc Michael could not do.

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The LORD in both verses Jude 9 and Mathew 4:10 you presented refers to Jehovah not Jesus.
Jesus doesn't have his own authority.
There are similarities and connection between Jesus and Michael throughout the Bible.

It's not my fault that KJV and some translations replaced God's name "Yahweh /Jehovah" to "LORD".

delkuf:
I had this argument recently with a jw and he showed me some bible verses that angel Michael is Jesus Christ. I must confess this guy almost won me and over with his argument. So I want to ask, can anyone bring out bible verses to refute this claim. I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ can never be angel Michael. I just want bible verses to refute this because the jw is coming on Saturday to continue this argument

My name is Maximus and i'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses, though for the past five years of my participation on this forum i've spent a lot of time and data debating with people of different religious backgrounds but this is our new service year so i've decided not to engage any churchgoer in debates anymore but for you to ask this question it means you've seen the efficacy in the argument of the JW about Jesus being the Archangel Michael.

So these are few points i will like you to think about whenever anyone kicks against the opinion of JWs on this topic:

[1] After the event in Noah's day God turned His attention away from mankind in general because what they choose to do on daily basis always saddens Him {Genesis 6:6} afterwards an angel representing God {Exodus 13:21 compare to Exodus 14:19} began standing for the salvation of obedient mankind! Daniel 12:1

Who could be this angel who always represent God?

[2] When Moses died we read that God buried him {Deuteronomy 34:5-6} later we heard that Satan had a dispute with the angels God sent to bury Moses only for Archangel Michael to show up {Jude 9} so did God buried Moses or it was the Archangel Michael?


[3] We read in the Bible that the one and only person given the power to resurrection the dead is Jesus Christ {John 11:25} but then Paul said the Lord (Jesus) will raise the dead using the Archangel's voice! 1Thessalonians 4:16
So why using the Archangel's voice and not his own?

[4] We also read that Archangel Michael will lead God's people to salvation and many will gain freedom from the grave (sign of resurrection) and many evil things will occur but those trusting in God will be saved! Daniel 12:1-3
So why is Michael mentioned in connection to all these activities that we all know are Jesus' responsibility?


[5] Apart from Satan who is leading rebellious angels against God's sovereignty only Michael is mentioned to have his own angels and he'll lead them to war against all the agents of darkness {Revelations 12:9-12} Jesus also was mentioned as having his own angels! Matthew 25:31
So why is it that both Michael and Jesus were mentioned in connection with loyal spirit sons of God as their captain or commander?

I'm not here to argue with anyone but to see how that your Jehovah's Witnesses friend or any pastor can explain all of these.

God bless you and may you have PEACE!

Janosky:
The oldest Bible, older than ALL English language Bibles by more than a thousand years.
@ John 1:1 rendition: " the word was a god."




Exodus 6:3 + Psalm 83:18 KJV, the God Almighty, Jehovah is NOT anybody's son.

Acts 3:13, Jesus Christ is his Son/Servant

What does the Greek Bible say? Was the Bible originally written in English? Should we not expect more errors in the first translations? The reason why there are revised translations is because the translators saw the need to correct the errors of the previous translations. The oldest translation therefore would be more errornous than the latest translations because the former is an attempt to upgrade the latter to a state of more accuracy.

Attached is the interlinear Greek translation of john 1:1.

Janosky:
The oldest Bible, older than ALL English language Bibles by more than a thousand years.
@ John 1:1 rendition: " the word was a god."




Exodus 6:3 + Psalm 83:18 KJV, the God Almighty, Jehovah is NOT anybody's son.

Acts 3:13, Jesus Christ is his Son/Servant

Yes, God almighty is not anybody's son. The physical Jesus was a son of Mary in the flesh but God in the Spirit.

The resurrected Jesus is Lord and God. Thomas called the resurrected Jesus 'My Lord and my God' (John 20:38). Did Jesus rebuke Thomas for that?

Janosky:
1 Timothy 3:16 "He was manifest in the flesh"
Greek lexicon 3739 @ 1 Timothy 3:16, Oga go & verify this fact PROVEN in the screenshot.

Your screenshot says nothing.

See attached screenshot from interlinear Greek translation.

Also follow the analysis on this link:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.quotescosmos.com/bible/bible-verses/1-Timothy-3-16.html

cornelboy:
No verse explicitly says that Jesus is Michael. No verse outrightly say Jesus is not angel Michael. Indeed there are clues in the Bible that shows that archangel Michael could be the one sent as Jesus Christ by God.

My brother, you don't need to stress yourself delkuf is one of those vehemently criticizing Jehovah's Witnesses on this forum over many topics so obviously he has tried to calmly address one of our brothers in the field that's why he now seek backup from his fellow religionists to counter what our brother showed him.
Of course this has proved that he is challenged with the efficacy and the competency our brother displayed in the debate.
So now it's left for him to decide what to do at least the message has been delivered successfully let him figure out why only JWs who says their leader is Archangel Michael are the most effective and consistent preachers and teachers of God's word throughout the earth today! Act 1:8

Janosky:
LIAR confusing himself.

The God is a spirit, said Jesus Christ. John 4:24.

Is the God , angels and Jesus spirits?
Yes. 1 Corinthians 15:45 NLT.
Hosea 12:3-4, Psalms 8:5 angels called God.
Therefore, God himself, angels and Jesus, ALL of them possess the nature of spirits, the nature of spirits is the nature of God.
Simple.

Absolutely ✅

Dtruthspeaker:
The Word, Came from God and is Born by God, so it must be A God! John 3:6

And that god is Jesus Christ.
So that word which is Jesus Christ was with GoD(Jehovah) from the beginning of creation

So let me rephrase john 1verse 1 again.

In the beginning was the Word(Jesus), and the Word(Jesus) was with God, and the Word(Jesus )was a god.

God’s Word refers to Michael “the archangel.” (Jude 9) This term means “chief angel.” Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term “archangel” occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is linked with the office of archangel. Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states: “The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice.” Thus the voice of Jesus is described as being that of an archangel. This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.

Also,The Bible states that “Michael and his angels battled with the dragon . . . and its angels.” (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.” (Matthew 13:41; 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven​—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—​it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.

Prosper1912:
And that god is Jesus Christ.
So that word which is Jesus Christ was with GoD(Jehovah) from the beginning of creation

So let me rephrase john 1verse 1 again.

In the beginning was the Word(Jesus), and the Word(Jesus) was with God, and the Word(Jesus )was a god.

Wrong!

Genesis 1 shows SOMEONE MOVED AND SPOKE!

John 1 clearly directs us to look at "The Word'. Verse 3 shows The Word made us. Genesis 1:3-29 Showing SOMEONE SPOKE SAYING "Let there be... or Let the...".

Anyway off point. Delkuff see! This thread is about Jesus and Arc Michael not Jesus and His Father!

I only answered the jw guy to point out that What comes from God must be God John3:6

Dtruthspeaker:
Wrong!

Genesis 1 shows SOMEONE MOVED AND SPOKE!

John 1 clearly directs us to look at "The Word'. Verse 3 shows The Word made us. Genesis 1:3-29 Showing SOMEONE SPOKE SAYING "Let there be... or Let the...".

Anyway off point. Delkuff see! This thread is about Jesus and Arc Michael not Jesus and His Father!

I only answered the jw guy to point out that What comes from God must be God John3:6

Oga u are wrong
See wenti john 1verse 2-3 talk

This one be dey with God from the beginning.  God use-am make everything, e no get anything wey dey wey God no use-am make

So who be this one
Na Jesus Christ .

Dtruthspeaker:
Wrong!

Genesis 1 shows SOMEONE MOVED AND SPOKE!

John 1 clearly directs us to look at "The Word'. Verse 3 shows The Word made us. Genesis 1:3-29 Showing SOMEONE SPOKE SAYING "Let there be... or Let the...".

Anyway off point. Delkuff see! This thread is about Jesus and Arc Michael not Jesus and His Father!

I only answered the jw guy to point out that What comes from God must be God John3:6

Oga now I see yr misconception
That language "WORD" nor mean speech or when someone is saying something.
Rather the language "WORD" refer to someone which is Jesus Christ.
So u are viewing that verse for a literal view.

Prosper1912:
Oga u are wrong
See wenti john 1verse 2-3 talk

This one be dey with God from the beginning.  God use-am make everything, e no get anything wey dey wey God no use-am make

So who be this one
Na Jesus Christ .

So are you not saying 2 People are there?
1) Big Papa God and

2) He Pikin God wey Papa God dey Send "make light, make toy house, decorate the house eel well, make toys and put them inside the house make dem live for the house (and now our toy story don start be dat.)

Prosper1912:
Oga now I see yr misconception
That language "WORD" nor mean speech or when someone is saying something.
Rather the language "WORD" refer to someone which is Jesus Christ.
So are viewing that verse for a literal view.

Word always mean speech, that is why Genesis 1 dey show us say SOMEBODY GO FIRST TALK, BEFORE SOMETHING HAPPEN! Aka. "AND GOD SAID..."!

But your trouble be dat you no fit accept say, God Word na Person, Who we dey Call Jesus Christ!

Dtruthspeaker:
Wrong!

Genesis 1 shows SOMEONE MOVED AND SPOKE!

John 1 clearly directs us to look at "The Word'. Verse 3 shows The Word made us. Genesis 1:3-29 Showing SOMEONE SPOKE SAYING "Let there be... or Let the...".

Anyway off point. Delkuff see! This thread is about Jesus and Arc Michael not Jesus and His Father!

I only answered the jw guy to point out that What comes from God must be God John3:6

And if u say that "WORD" is GoD or a spoken word by GOd.
If u look at the first line of john 1 verse 1
Which say "In the beginning was the Word"

You are trying to tell me that GOD has a beginning but God had no beginning. Jehovah God is “from everlasting to everlasting.”he nor get beginning or ending (Psalm 90:1, 2) However, The "Word" which is Jesus Christ, did have a beginning. So He is “the beginning of the creation by God.”—Revelation 3:14.
So if u put Jesus in place of the WORD in the first line u which see the meaning in that scripture.

Prosper1912:
And if u say that "WORD" is GoD or a spoken word by GOd.
If u look at the first line of john 1 verse 1
Which say "In the beginning was the Word"

You are trying to tell me that GOD has a beginning but God had no beginning. Jehovah God is “...

Nope.

John 1 is talking about "our own beginning " Genesis 1. (Man's beginning).

Not God's beginning!

You are it clearly in Proverbs 8:22-31. And that is still Jesus Again.

Dtruthspeaker:
So are you not saying 2 People are there?
1) Big Papa God and

2) He Pikin God wey Papa God dey Send "make light, make toy house, decorate the house eel well, make toys and put them inside the house make dem live for the house (and now our toy story don start be dat.)

Oga u sure say u dey read yr bible abi u wan just make jest of jw
See wenti collossian 1:15,16 talk.

He is the image of the invisible God,a the firstborn of all creation;b 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible,c whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him.

Dtruthspeaker:
Nope.

John 1 is talking about "our own beginning " Genesis 1. (Man's beginning).

Not God's beginning!

You are it clearly in Proverbs 8:22-31. And that is still Jesus Again.

Shia nothing musa nor go see for gate
So GoD don get beginning.

Prosper1912:
Oga u sure say u dey read yr bible abi u wan just make jest of jw
See wenti collossian 1:15,16 talk.

He is the image of the invisible God,a the firstborn of all creation;b 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible,c whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him.

Do children not bear the images of their Father? Still the same thing John is saying!

Dtruthspeaker:
Nope.

John 1 is talking about "our own beginning " Genesis 1. (Man's beginning).

Not God's beginning!

You are it clearly in Proverbs 8:22-31. And that is still Jesus Again.

@ courz @ advocatejare @ achrolaye abeg make una show me wey dem take write for john 1verse 1 "MAN BEGINNING".

Prosper1912:
Shia nothing musa nor go see for gate
So GoD don get beginning.

Delkuf, See as jw don twist am as he no get wetin e won talk again way dey valid.


Eclearly I said "our own beginning " Genesis 1. (Man's beginning).

Not God's beginning!

Jw don twist am.

There is no way you people can get to the Kingdom of God!

Dtruthspeaker:
Do children not bear the images of their Father? Still the same thing John is saying!

Oga Dtruthspeaker
U don dey deviate

Prosper1912:
@ courz @ advocatejare @ achrolaye abeg make una show me wey dem take write for john 1verse 1 "MAN BEGINNING".

I concur.

Even after verse 4 don show am and after that all the talk na about man, this world, man John, man Moses ...

Prosper1912:
Oga Dtruthspeaker
U don dey deviate

Na you deviate go Collossians from John, na me bring am back to John.

Dtruthspeaker:
Delkuf, See as jw don twist am as he no get wetin e won talk again way dey valid.


Eclearly I said "our own beginning " Genesis 1. (Man's beginning).

Not God's beginning!

Jw don twist am.

There is no way you people can get to the Kingdom of God!

If na even GENESIS 1-1 u dey talk about i nor see where dey write "MAN BEGINNING"
Make I quote am for u
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”
This opening passage of the Bible states important truths. the “heavens and the earth,” or the material universe

I nor see where dey write MAN BEGINNING

Dtruthspeaker:
Na you deviate go Collossians from John, na me bring am back to John.

I nor dey deviate oo
Na u say na only GoD created everything say Jesus nor join.
Na make I quote collossian for u make u see say na GOD and Jesus create everything from the beginning.
So I nor deviate.

Dtruthspeaker:
I concur.

Even after verse 4 don show am and after that all the talk na about man, this world, man John, man Moses ...

Oga Dtruthspeaker
Na for genesis chapter 2 GoD take make man
Oga u don dey deviate
Tell how john 1vs 1 and Genesis 1 vs 1 take related.

Prosper1912:
Oga Dtruthspeaker
Na for genesis chapter 2 GoD take make man
Oga u don dey deviate
Tell how john 1vs 1 and Genesis 1 vs 1 take related.

Make the people way you call kon chook mouth for dis matter. Me I don talk my own already.

Dtruthspeaker:
Make the people way you call kon chook mouth for dis matter. Me I don talk my own already.

Them nor be yr people again abi una nor dey share thesame faith again?

Prosper1912:
I nor dey deviate oo
Na u say na only GoD created everything say Jesus nor join.
Na make I quote collossian for u make u see say na GOD and Jesus create everything from the beginning.
So I nor deviate.

Your twisted eye no let you dey see. My talk dey very clear and e no get where I talk say Jesus no join. E no even normal for anybody to stretch am reach there. Your twisty-twisty no dey let you see wetin dey your front.

Prosper1912:
Them nor be yr people again abi una nor dey share thesame faith again?

Schweppes! E no reach say I talk say make dem show chook mouth for d mata?