₦airaland Forum

kkins25:
You're funny. You have eyes to see but choose not to see. Even if Jesus came down and told you the info is 100% true, you'd slaughter him. If they don't use Koboko yo force you to learn, you won't learn.

don't play, you'll learn.

SIRTee15:
Father papias also confirmed the gospel of Mark was the account of Peter the apostle.

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0125.htm

SIRTee15:

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0125.htm

sonmvayina:
So name one person who actually saw him and what he wrote about him ?

In the first person....not reported speach...

Maynman:
From the link you sent.

Moreover, Papias himself, in the introduction to his books, makes it manifest that he was not himself a hearer and eye-witness of the holy apostles; but he tells us that he received the truths of our religion from those who were acquainted with them [the apostles] in the following

SIRTee15:
From father Clement another apostolic father

SIRTee15:
So somvayuna, can u give me one historical evidence of Moses. Just one.
Thanks.

Moses is part of the Jewish traditional religious belief when they were not under any occupation by another nation, just as the Yorubas had their traditional Ifa belief before they were under occupying. These traditional beliefs were not forced on them by any occupying nation.
But jesus christ is not a traditional religion, but was invented during occupation and was and is still a psychological tool forced on people in nations that have been occupied.

Maynman:
😂

Maynman:
😂

SIRTee15:
Then I can't help u if u don't accept the evidence I bring.
Anything I bring, u will simply claim it's Pseudepigrapha.

SIRTee15:
This is Didache, first century Christian manuscript quoting extensively from book of Matthew.

Maynman:
😂

EruditeSupport:
How did the individual who contributed the article to Britannica come to know that Christians were known to fabricate writings as he said? Was he there? Did he live at the time in question to have arrived at that conclusion?

By virtue of church history, we are aware that many charlatans arose in those days who in a bid to either gain undue recognition or promote antichristian ideologies, wrote books claiming to be authored by highly respected Christians. The book of Barnabas is an example. There are many such writings but the Church fathers filtered many of them off.
That's why, though there are several thousands of ancient Its writings as of today, only a few of those writings are accepted in christiendom.

This article written by Clement refered to by Sirtea15 above does not fall in the category of those unscrupulous Christian writings. It is adjudged to be an authentic writing of Clement himself.

SIRTee15:
Is SIRTee15 ok, I asked for historical evidence of Moses, what are u giving me?

Answer my question or swerve.

You cannot compare Moses in the Jewish traditional religious beliefs to that of your invented religion. Traditional religious beliefs give the communities that practiced them knowledge of rularship system, how to buid a community, how to make things, how to make iron from special sand and fire, how to weave clothes, marriage traditions to follow and so on.

But what has your invented jesus christ and invented christianity taught, to give to Caesar who is the occupier what is Caesar, not to have interested in the rularship system of your nation because the invented jesus christ has gone to prepare an imaginary mansion for you in the sky, for slaves to fear and obey the invented jesus christ like they fear and obey their worldly masters etc.
Are these not psychologicals tools to control the people in an occupied nation?

Maynman:
It's a pity.

EruditeSupport:
I just told you the truth.

Maynman:
And

Maynman:
Read what you posted, help yourself.

Maynman:
Post evidence of the truth.

SIRTee15:
So what did ifa bring to Yoruba people

I mentioned ifa just as an exmple. But let's stick to Moses you asked about in the Jewish traditional religion. If you read the Books of Moses and other Jewish religious books, you will find out more for yourself.

SIRTee15:
1st century manuscript
from the book of Mathew lend credence to the gospel of Mathew.

EruditeSupport:
The number 1 evidence is the Bible. Many books were purportedly written by the apostles of Christ which were filtered away and were not added to the Bible because they were regarded as spurious books.

SIRTee15:
Is the 1st epistle of Clement genuine or not?

Maynman:
It's a pity.

Maynman:
No it's not.

Maynman:
Didache ton apostolon (‘The Teaching of the Apostles’). Later writers altered the title slightly, as ‘The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles’.

Maynman:
Didache ton apostolon (‘The Teaching of the Apostles’). Later writers altered the title slightly, as ‘The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles’.

SIRTee15:
Besides Didache destroyed your earlier claim that there were no Christians in the first century.
I dont know if u have retracted the statement.

SIRTee15:
Do u understand my question.
I'm asking for extra biblical evidence for Moses.
That's what I'm asking for.
Don't bring up what's in the bible, we know that already.

Top Ten Discoveries Related to Moses and the Exodus

NOTE: Here is the video version of this blog, from Episode 157 of the TV show, Digging for Truth, by the Associates for Biblical Research.


The account of God raising up Moses to lead the people of Israel out of slavery in Egypt is one of the most important biblical events. In fact it is the most frequently mentioned event in the entire Old Testament, referred to over 120 times in subsequent stories, laws, poems, Psalms, historical writings and prophecies.1 In addition, there has been 3500 years of almost unbroken Passover celebrations. The Exodus is such a seminal event in Hebrew history that it stretches credulity to suggest, as some critics do, that it did not have a historical basis.

Is there archaeological evidence for the Israelite exodus from Egypt? I believe there is, providing one recognizes the limits of archaeology and looks in the correct time period. First, one would not expect to find Egyptian inscriptions directly referencing the plagues or the Exodus, as royal inscriptions never included negative reports about the Pharaoh and his armies.2 Moreover, the Israelites wandered in the desert as nomads for 40 years, leaving little, if any, cultural remains due to their transient nature. This doesn’t mean there is no evidence of the Exodus; it means one needs to look for the correct things (ie. evidence of the decline of Egyptian society) and not expect to find the remans of Hebrew campsites in the desert. Secondly, one needs to look in the correct time period for clues to the Exodus. Fortunately, the Bible gives ample chronological data relating to this event. 1 Kings 6:1 says that it was in the “four hundred and eightieth year after the people of Israel came out of the land of Egypt” that Solomon began building the temple.” A straightforward reading of this verse places the Exodus in 1446 BC.3 This timeframe is affirmed by numerous other passages: Judges 11:26-27, Acts 13:19-20 and the number of generations listed 1 Chron. 6:33-38.4 Thus, one needs to look in the 15th century BC for evidence of the Exodus, not the 13th century BC as some scholars claim.5

Here then are the top ten discoveries related to Moses and the Exodus which I believe are evidence of the historicity of the biblical account.

10. Proto-Sinaitic Inscriptions

A Proto-Sinaitic Inscription from Serabit el-Khadim (Sinai 361). Image Courtesy of Doug Petrovich
Some have suggested that Moses did not write the first five books of the Bible, but rather they were written a thousand years later by a supposed group of priests living in exile (or later) who were trying to invent a glorious history for their people. When this theory was first proposed in the 19th century, there was no known alphabetic script with which Moses could have recorded such lengthy reports. We now know that there was indeed an alphabetic script Moses could have used. Remember that Moses was literate, having been educated in Pharaoh’s household (Acts 7:22). In the early 20th century, examples of alphabetic writing were discovered by Sir Flinders Petrie inscribed on stones at Serabit el-Khadim, an Egyptian turquois mine in the Sinai.6 They date from the 19th to the 15th centuries BC.7 The Proto-Sinaitic script, as it is often called, was invented by Semites who worked at the turquois mine and adopted Egyptian hieroglyphic symbols as pictographic letters for their language. Most scholars agree that the language behind this script is from Canaan, but which language has been a matter of debate. Douglas Petrovich has presented evidence these inscriptions were written by Israelites, and that Hebrew is the language behind the script.8 His translation of one inscription (Sinai 361) contains the name of Moses.9 Not all scholars are convinced, however,10 11 which has resulted in much debate.12 It is interesting that an alphabetic script developed at the precise time the Israelites were in Egypt, and that the language behind it is from their place of origin. At the very least, we now know that there was indeed an alphabetic script Moses could have used to write the first five books of the Bible.

9. Egyptian Words in the Hebrew Text

The Egyptian word for the Nile is “great river”, represented by these hieroglyphs, literally itrw, and ‘waters’ determinative. The word “river,” in the biblical account of baby Moses refers is not the normal Hebrew word for river (nahar), but rather a transliteration of this Egyptian word. Image: Wing/Wikimedia Commons/CC BY-SA 3.0
One of the often-overlooked elements of the Exodus account in the Bible is the use of Egyptian words in the Hebrew text. After the birth of Moses, we read, “When she could hide him no longer, she took for him a basket made of bulrushes and daubed it with bitumen and pitch. She put the child in it and placed it among the reeds by the river bank” (Ex 2:3). Egyptologist, James Hoffmeier, has highlighted the numerous Egyptian words that are often missed in this verse. The Hebrew word for “basket” is tebat (nan) and derives from the Egyptian word dbjt. Similarly, the words “bulrushes” and “pitch” have Egyptian etymology and the Hebrew word “reeds,” is unquestionably the Egyptian word twfy. The word “river,” clearly referring to the Nile is not the normal Hebrew word for river (nahar), but rather a transliteration of the Egyptian word for the Nile.13 Even Moses’ name is Egyptian, having been named by Pharaoh’s daughter (Ex 2:10). Hoffemeier writes, “There is widespread agreement that at the root of the name of the great Hebrew leader is the Egyptian word msi, which was a very common element in theophonc names throughout the New Kingdom (e.g., Amenmose, Thutmose, Ahmose, Ptahmose, Ramose, Ramesses).14 The Egyptian loan-words in the Hebrew text are difficult to explain, unless one acknowledges Moses’ Egyptian education and authorship.

8. Papyrus Brooklyn 35.1446

Papyrus Brooklyn 35.1446 records the names of 95 household slaves, including some that are Hebrew. Photo: Brooklyn Museum / CC BY 3.0
Central to the Exodus account is the presence of Israelites in Egypt to begin with. The Bible describes Joseph’s entrance to Egypt as a slave (Gn 37:28), his rise to power (Gn 41:41), his initiative in bringing his family to Egypt (Gn 45:18), their subsequent growth (Ex 1:7) and eventual bondage (Ex 1:11). Some scholars, however, do not believe the Israelites were ever in Egypt. For example, in a 1999 article in Ha’aretz, Ze’ev Herzog boldly declared, “This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel.”15

There is evidence, however, of the Israelites in Egypt. Papyrus Brooklyn 35.1446 is an Egyptian document written in hieratic script, that names 95 household servants of a noblewoman named Senebtisi.16 Forty of the names are Semitic (Hebrew is a Semitic language),17 and several have been identified as Hebrew names. These include Menahema, a feminine form of the Hebrew name Menahem (2 Kgs 15:14), a woman whose name is a parallel to Issachar, one of Jacob’s sons (Gn 30:18), and Shiphrah, the name of one of the Hebrew midwives prior to the Exodus (Ex 1:15).18 To be clear, this papyrus dates to the 13th Dynasty (ca. 1809-1743 BC)19 just after the time of Joseph, and does not refer to Hebrew slaves at the time of Moses. Titus Kennedy summarizes its importance: “This list is a clear attestation of Hebrew people living in Egypt prior to the Exodus, and it is an essential piece of evidence in the argument for an historical Exodus.”20

7. Egyptian Records of Slaves Making Bricks

A brick-making scene in the tomb of Rekhmire in the Valley of the Nobles in lower Egypt. Photo: Ferrell Jenkins – https://ferrelljenkins.blog/2020/03/12/
One of the tasks the Israelite slaves were pressed into was making bricks (Ex 5:7-. When Moses petitioned Pharaoh to let God’s people go, Pharaoh responded making their labor more difficult (Ex 5:6-18). The biblical description of slaves making bricks is affirmed by a painting in the tomb of Rehkmire (ca. 1470-1445 BC), the vizier of Egypt under Thutmose III and Amenhotep II. The painting depicts Nubian and Asiatic slaves (Egyptians called people from Canaan “Asiatics”) making bricks for the workshops of the Karnak Temple.21 Slaves are seen collecting and mixing mud and water, packing the mud in brick molds, and leaving them to dry in the sun. Nearby Egyptian officials, each with a rod, oversee the work.

In addition to the Rehkmire tomb painting, a leather scroll in the Louvre which dates to the time of Rameses II mentions forty stablemasters (junior officers) who each had a quota of 2000 bricks to be made by the men under them.22 Two further Egyptian papyri (Anastasi IV and V) record that “there are no men to make bricks and no straw in the district,”23 which highlights the importance of straw as a binder in brickmaking, and the dismay the Israelites felt when Pharaoh stopped supplying it, but still required the same number of bricks to be made (Ex 5:18-21). Egyptian records affirm the biblical description of the process of making bricks.

6. Discoveries at Avaris

The city of Avaris beneath the city of Ramesses. Image: (c) Patterns of Evidence, LLC. Used with Permission https://patternsofevidence.com/
According to the biblical text, the Israelites settled in “the land of Rameses” (Gn 47:11) sometime in the 19th century. While they were initially free, at some point they became slaves to the native Egyptians and pressed into building the city of Rameses (Ex 1:11). When they left Egypt in 1446 BC, some 430 years later, they left from Rameses (Ex 12:37).24 The use of the word “Rameses” is an update of the biblical text by later editors to replace an archaic place name with one that was more recognizable, as it is in Gn 47:11: “So Joseph settled his father and his brothers in Egypt and gave them property in the best part of the land, the district of Rameses, as Pharaoh directed.”


Palace F and Palace G from ancient Avaris date to the time of Moses. Image: Bryant G. Wood, Associates for Biblical Research. Based on Figs. figs 4, 33 and 34b in Bietak, Manfred; Dorner, Josef; and Jánosi, Peter 2001 Ausgrabungen in dem Palastbezirk von Avaris. Vorbericht Tell el-Dab‘a/‘Ezbet Helmi 1993–2000. Egypt and the Levant 11: 27–119.
Thanks to five decades of excavations by the Austrian Archaeological Institute of Cairo at Tell el-Dab‘a in the eastern Nile Delta, we now know this was the site of the city Rameses, which was itself built over a previous city named Avaris. While the site is most famous as the Hyksos capital,25 it was originally settled in the 19th century (the time of Joseph) by a group of non-Egyptians from Canaan, as evidenced by the Canaanite pottery and weapons they used.26 There is even evidence of a four-roomed house in the village, the same layout as those typical of Israelite settlements in the later Iron Age, as well as a prominent tomb in which the remains of a statue of a Semitic man with a multi-coloured robe was found. The town grew and became more Egyptianized, with a mansion built atop the four-roomed house which some believe to be the residence of Ephraim and Manasseh, Joseph’s sons.27 A palace precinct was later built at Avaris during the Hyksos period, and then expanded during the 18th Dynasty, forming a new royal citadel.28 This later palatial complex dates to the time of Moses and is likely where he spent time when he was raised in Pharaoh’s courts. Interestingly, the excavators at Tell el-Dab’a note the site was suddenly and mysteriously abandoned after the reign of Amenhotep II, suggesting a plague may have been the reason.29 Bryant Wood summarizes the occupational history of the site: “The excavations at Tell el-Dab’a have revealed the presence of an “Asiatic” community who first settled as pastoralists, then grew in number as well-to-do entrepreneurs, became subservient to the Egyptians and finally left. This scenario exactly matches what we read in the Bible.”30