benodic:
the process of learning the lessons of life takes millions of lifetimes.
lifetime after lifetime soul gathers precious experiences which teaches it the value and importance of love .
it can take a soul as much as a thousand lifetimes just to learn contentment and do away with greed.
in the journey of soul there is no hurry and no compulsion .

soul is allowed to learn life lessons at its own pace. there is total free will for each soul.
more advanced souls always give a helping hand to younger less experienced souls to facilitate their journey back to God.

i thought all souls started the journey at the same time, or what do you mean by younger souls?

@ Templee333

i thought all souls started the journey at the same time, or what do you mean by younger souls?

Soul does not grow old or mature with time. What matures Soul are experiences in the lower worlds. More in the physical plane expecially earth.

When God created the lower universes and sent souls down some tarried at the mental plane, some at the causal plane deciding to take their time before making it down to the physical plane. The more rugged ones made it to the physical plane and started the climb back to the God realm with more experience and maturity.

The lesser experiences soul has, the more immature and younger it will be.
That is the beauty of being on earth. The opportunity to have rugged experiences that can propel you back to the heart of God abounds here. It is really a privilege to reincarnate on earth.

benodic:
@ Templee333



Soul does not grow old or mature with time. What matures Soul are experiences in the lower worlds. More in the physical plane expecially earth.

When God created the lower universes and sent souls down some tarried at the mental plane, some at the causal plane deciding to take their time before making it down to the physical plane. The more rugged ones made it to the physical plane and started the climb back to the God realm with more experience and maturity.

The lesser experiences soul has, the more immature and younger it will be.
That is the beauty of being on earth. The opportunity to have rugged experiences that can propel you back to the heart of God abounds here. It is really a privilege to reincarnate on earth.

what extra ordinary thing does soul accomplish after all the unpleasant journey? Isn't it going back to the same state it was before?

@ Templee333

what extra ordinary thing does soul accomplish after all the unpleasant journey? Isn't it going back to the same state it was before?

Soul in its original state is all loving, omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent just like God but it didn't have a realization of these qualities within it. The qualities were latent and undeveloped. That was the reason God had to create the lower universes, to help Soul unfold it's latent qualities.

That Light and Sound—which means anything that you can see, anything that you can hear in your world—is the expression of God’s love for you.

—Harold Klemp

Experiences in the Sound and Light of God accelerate Soul’s unfoldment.

—Harold Klemp

The inner experiences occur more often and with more vividness in ECK than in possibly any other spiritual path on earth, because this teaching has the Light and Sound as living elements.

—Harold Klemp

As you receive more of the Sound and Light of ECK, you get greater responsibility along with the greater freedom.

—Harold Klemp

To see the Light and hear the Sound is to experience spiritual upliftment that pulls you into the worlds of knowing.

—Harold Klemp

The purpose of the spiritual path of ECK is to give you an idea of how to become a more spiritual being and master your spiritual destiny.

—Harold Klemp

To become a Co-worker with God is the main mission each Soul is trying to accomplish.

—Harold Klemp

Each must make his own way to truth, on his own path and in his own time.

—Harold Klemp

The route of this quest is both a unique and solitary one. Yet all creation awaits the awakening of each individual Soul.

—Harold Klemp

The teachings of ECK work on the simple principle that love is the divine current which makes all life possible.

—Harold Klemp

ECK is the Holy Spirit, and It pervades everything with Its presence. ECK is the Spirit of life.

—Harold Klemp

HU is the love song to God that we sing. And it’s to open your heart—like opening your wings. Opening your wings simply means opening your state of consciousness.

—Harold Klemp

An ECK Master, like a good teacher, will teach you the lessons most able to help you lead a happy and useful spiritual life.

—Harold Klemp

Find out for yourself. This is what the teachings of ECK are prepared to help you do.

—Harold Klemp

When we move into new areas of consciousness, we find that our whole life must change around us. We have to live by new rules.

—Harold Klemp

You make a conscious effort to align yourself or put yourself in tune with Divine Spirit. And you do that by chanting a spiritual word, such as HU (pronounced like the word hue).

—Harold Klemp

benodic:
You make a conscious effort to align yourself or put yourself in tune with Divine Spirit. And you do that by chanting a spiritual word, such as HU (pronounced like the word hue).

—Harold Klemp

Knowing that you belief in reincarnation, I would like to know your thought on this message said to have been communicated by an ancient spirit that dead more than 5000 years ago.


...... And this I must say, that in all the centuries of my spirit existence, never have I known a spirit or the soul of a spirit to reincarnate, and in this my disappointment has been grievous.

Many spirits of our association have become perfect through renunciation, and yet they have remained spirits and progressed to the highest heavens of our possibilities (the Sixth Sphere).

Yet, strange as it may seem in view of this experience, we still, to a more or less degree, cling to our old beliefs in reincarnation, thinking that there is something else, that we know not of, to be done in order for reincarnation to become the destiny of our souls.

Sometimes I think that my beliefs in this particular must be wrong, for in comparing the condition of mortals, the most advanced in their mind and soul development, I realize that they are not in a small degree the equal of us in development, and then I wonder and, wondering, cannot understand what good could be accomplished or what improvement made in our condition for progressing, should we again enter mortal bodies.

As true theosophy taught, as we conceived it, reincarnation was a supposed process of purification, and necessary in order that the spirit could attain to a state of perfection and freedom from everything that defiles his soul and prevents that soul from arriving at the blissful state of Nirvana, which means only that condition of soul where no longer reincarnation is necessary or possible; and when I know that many of our spirits - one time believers in these doctrines - have arrived at that condition and entered a state of perfect happiness, I hesitate longer to believe, and only hold the faith because I fear that the experience mentioned may be the results of special circumstances.

But if I cease to believe these teachings, what shall I believe? No one can tell me that this reincarnation will not take place, and I fear to surrender the belief. I further believe that in order for the workings of karma, as the doctrines hold, reincarnation is necessary - that only in the mortal body could I do the reaping that my sowing demands, and yet, I see and know that karma has been and is working in this spirit world, to the extent that the reaping has all been accomplished, and the spirit made perfect, and this without any reincarnation; for as I have said, never have I known or heard of the reincarnation of a spirit or of anything that is connected with or represents the spirit.

@bolded

This is one of the reasons why I don't belief in reincarnation. If reincarnation is true, should we not see a steady increase in human moral development. In your estimate, would you say humanity is more materialistic in this age of social media and all or is humanity more spiritual.

For example, which is more advanced?

1. The moral development of Nigeria youths of 200 years ago.
2. The moral development of Nigeria youths of today.

In other words which of the two is more materialistic?

HU is an ancient name for God. It is also a love song to God. You sing it silently or aloud, with love in your heart.

—Harold Klemp

Divine Spirit is not a person. “A force” is not even the correct way to speak of It. The best we can usually do is to say It’s the Light and Sound of God, the Voice of God, the creative force that made all creation.

—Harold Klemp

@ justlove91

This is one of the reasons why I don't belief in reincarnation. If reincarnation is true, should we not see a steady increase in human moral development. In your estimate, would you say humanity is more materialistic in this age of social media and all or is humanity more spiritual.

For example, which is more advanced?

1. The moral development of Nigeria youths of 200 years ago.
2. The moral development of Nigeria youths of today.

In other words which of the two is more materialistic?

The key word here is believe. In Eckankar we don't work with believe. We work with knowingness which is far beyond believe.

What you know is reality and what you believe may be an illusion until you experience it and become a knower.

For me the concept of Reincarnation was a reality from childhood as I experienced it and proved it for myself long before becoming an Eckist.

I remembered fully why I had to return and the people I has karmic scores to settle with.

Another thing you need to know is that reincarnation does not only occur between the astral plane and physical plane. It also occurs between the lower heavens e.g one can reincarnate between 4th and 3rd heaven

Also some souls can spend an extremely long length of time in the lower heavens before choosing to reincarnate.
Of course karmic interplay still goes on in the lower heavens as they are still within the worlds of polarity: good and bad

As for the degeneration of moral values in this age, this has to do with the different epochs or ages the lower universe goes through.
You have the golden age, silver age, bronze age and iron age. We are currently in the iron age when the Kal or negative power takes over the universe completely and things gets very tough and bad.

The negativity is just getting started and it's going to get much worse.

The advantage of reincarnation into the physical universe is that it speeds up your spiritual growth. What you can achieve spiritually in 100 years of earth time may take you thousands of years to achieve in the inner worlds because life is simpler and easier there.
So it is a conscious decision that Soul makes to come back here on order to fast forward it's journey back Home to God.

benodic:
@ justlove91



The key word here is believe. In Eckankar we don't work with believe. We work with knowingness which is far beyond believe.

What you know is reality and what you believe may be an illusion until you experience it and become a knower.

For me the concept of Reincarnation was a reality from childhood as I experienced it and proved it for myself long before becoming an Eckist.

I remembered fully why I had to return and the people I has karmic scores to settle with.

Another thing you need to know is that reincarnation does not only occur between the astral plane and physical plane. It also occurs between the lower heavens e.g one can reincarnate between 4th and 3rd heaven

Also some souls can spend an extremely long length of time in the lower heavens before choosing to reincarnate.
Of course karmic interplay still goes on in the lower heavens as they are still within the worlds of polarity: good and bad

As for the degeneration of moral values in this age, this has to do with the different epochs or ages the lower universe goes through.
You have the golden age, silver age, bronze age and iron age. We are currently in the iron age when the Kal or negative power takes over the universe completely and things gets very tough and bad.

The negativity is just getting started and it's going to get much worse.

The advantage of reincarnation into the physical universe is that it speeds up your spiritual growth. What you can achieve spiritually in 100 years of earth time may take you thousands of years to achieve in the inner worlds because life is simpler and easier there.
So it is a conscious decision that Soul makes to come back here on order to fast forward it's journey back Home to God.

Of course I'm aware people remember part live and there is a book written by Ian Stevenson on accounts of children remembering their part lives.
The problem is how would one know it's ones part lives? One of the ways some people explain past live remembrance is this:

"There are millions of spirits in the astral plane that belief they've to reincarnate to progress, these spirits attach themselves to pregnant women trying to reincarnated that way.
If the child is sensitive to some extent, he/she starts to remember the past live of the spirit that gets attached to it thinking it was it own past live."

The above is why remembering past live doesn't necessarily proof reincarnation is true.

@ Justlove91

Of course I'm aware people remember part live and there is a book written by Ian Stevenson on accounts of children remembering their part lives.
The problem is how would one know it's ones part lives? One of the ways some people explain past live remembrance is this:

"There are millions of spirits in the astral plane that belief they've to reincarnate to progress, these spirits attach themselves to pregnant women trying to reincarnated that way.
If the child is sensitive to some extent, he/she starts to remember the past live of the spirit that gets attached to it thinking it was it own past live."

The above is why remembering past live doesn't necessarily proof reincarnation is true

The teachings of ECK takes it a bit further. So it doesn't just end at remembering your past live as a child. You have the privilege to soul travel into the causal plane beyond the influences of spirits hovering at the astral plane .

The causal plane stores the records of all your past incarnations in the lower worlds including earth. You get to see for yourself how you have made your journey of Soul through the different planes of God. Your experience still remains your authority and not based on the someone's own believes.

As Soul, you have the God-knowledge within you. My main job is to awaken the knowledge and love for the divine things that are already in your heart. You are Soul. You are a child of God.

—Harold Klemp

benodic:
@ Justlove91



The teachings of ECK takes it a bit further. So it doesn't just end at remembering your past live as a child. You have the privilege to soul travel into the causal plane beyond the influences of spirits hovering at the astral plane .

The causal plane stores the records of all your past incarnations in the lower worlds including earth. You get to see for yourself how you have made your journey of Soul through the different planes of God. Your experience still remains your authority and not based on the someone's own believes.

Remember in our previous conversations I was asking you about soul travel, whether you experience vibration while inducing it etc.
The reason I was asking you all those questions then was because I am a lucid dreamer. And one of the most important thing I've learnt is "seeing is not believing".

One time I was in a lucid dream and decide to see an angel, I closed my eyes, focus on that intention, then felt a movement, seconds later the movement stopped, I opened my eyes and there in front of me was an angel, radiant, beatiful wearing a shining robe. I asked for his name, he said Gabriel.

Then I started singing hiphop song and asked him to sing and dance with me. Moments later he was singing and dancing and really rocking the song. So, my suspicion was right, the "angel" was a being of my making afterall, a thought form.

Now imagine I'm a devoted Christian, will I think of testing the angel? Of course, I will wake up and start telling everybody that cares to listen that I saw angel Gabriel.

Years ago, a friend of mine told me he was travelling, I later learnt he died but was unable to know the cause of death then. I decided to get the information in my lucid dream, I found him covered in blood and he told me he had an accident while travelling.
It turns out this information was completely false, that my brain just fabricated the whole thing.

So, the issue is not whether one can visit the casual plane or access the akashic record or see Eck masters but whether what one is experiencing and the information gathered is objectively true or not.

I'm not trying to claim this also applies to your experiences just relating my own.

@ justlove91

The fact is that I have really taken for granted the training I have received in Eckankar and reading about your inner experiences brings a lot of memories in my early days in Eckankar back to the fore.
I remember the inner trainings on how to separate mind creations from reality. How to challenge Beings that come into your vision. How to use the fine art of inner discrimination to decipher messages that come from the inner planes.

The most important of all being how to open your consciousness to the Holy Spirit and allowing it to direct the inner experiences that is needed for one's spiritual growth.

I have never had a misleading inner experience., Maybe that is why I have been taken them for granted.
I remain grateful and I am humbled by this fact.
May the blessings be.

But to the individual under the guidance of Divine Spirit, it’s walking the path of Light and Sound, the Light and Sound of God.

—Harold Klemp

benodic:
@ justlove91

The fact is that I have really taken for granted the training I have received in Eckankar and reading about your inner experiences brings a lot of memories in my early days in Eckankar back to the fore.
I remember the inner trainings on how to separate mind creations from reality. How to challenge Beings that come into your vision. How to use the fine art of inner discrimination to decipher messages that come from the inner planes.

The most important of all being how to open your consciousness to the Holy Spirit and allowing it to direct the inner experiences that is needed for one's spiritual growth.

I have never had a misleading inner experience., Maybe that is why I have been taken them for granted.
I remain grateful and I am humbled by this fact.
May the blessings be.

I was once a devoted Muslim, I believed with all my heart I was on the right and only path. Then I started asking questions, started questioning my beliefs, in the end I left it all behind. Now, I do not have any religion, because I'm not a fan of belief system anymore, I would rather know for sure than rely on belief or faith.

Eckankar seems enticing since you prioritize experience over belief but my experience with lucid dream also taught me one can't entirely trust experience.

Like you claim, maybe there is a way to separate subjectively generated experiences from objective experiences.

Thanks again for your patience replying my questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oipc8TE9R_I



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