₦airaland Forum

mostob:
You're twisting this thing bro.... Height!!!!! That's the point.


You can't be expecting him to be puffing the ball towards Jesus or Nketiah who are clearly shorter. His passes are not the main issue but the kind of goals he conceded.

When Ramsdale was punting it for us during his last two seasons, who were the height players we had? Havertz?

When Raya was adjudged to have good long ball accuracy in Brentford, who were the height players? Toney, wissa or Mbeumo?

Lol, so If Havertz go injury, Raya no go play long ball again?

And does he necessarily have to give it to Havertz? We have tall Midfielders and defenders bumping forward like Ben White, why is he not locating them. At least, Ramsdale effectively uses those group. No?

Jodera:
This Raya sef, the guy dey give me palpitations wey I no even know say I get when Ramsdale dey keep.

The long passes wey dem ditch Ramsdale for, I no dey see am. His passing out from the back is always always jittery (he always seems panicky as if him deh learn the work). I can't even measure his saves to Ramsdale cos he hasn't really been tested so far(thanks to our standard back 4 so far)...

So how this Raya take better pass Ramsdale wey dem
bench?. At least when Ramsdale bench Leno, the difference was clear

You nailed your comments! I’m yet to see him prove in any slightest that he’s better than Ramsdale. Man can’t even command his defenders the Ram does

Jodera:
Like I said it's only Jorginho that he started that has question mark. That was our best 11 bar Jorginho, so it's unfair to pin only Jorginho. When the lineup came out, nobody talked ill of the lineup and I'm not sure you saw it that way too.
Same Jorginho started against Man city, I didn't see you rate Arteta poorly for the starting selection after the match.


2. Isn't it surprising that the match you rated Havertz as influential (against Man city CC, crystal palace towards the end of the game and City EPL) are times in which he played as Cf? Same thing have been harping since beginning of preseason. He always always underwhelms in midfield (Nottingham forest, Fulham, Man u, crystal palace before we went one man down). This are match I watched and every single time he underwhelms in midfield

Anytime he does well, it's certainly when he plays CF and you want to use that to compare with ESR who just played his 2nd match in midfield this season from bench?

O wrong nau!!

It is like you don't know the extent of the damage Jorginho did to our entire system yesterday. Yes, he started against City but what exactly were his contributions? Does that mean we expect Chelsea and City games to turn out the same?


The only match Havertz started as the natural CF among all the games I listed was that community shield. Havertz might have drifted to the CF but he didn't play as a CF. Whenever Havertz move to the center, Ode will drop deep while the wingers and Rice would all contested for the second ball. (this one na another topic sha).


BTW, what I'm talking about here is what each player brings to the team not a general comparison per say. ESR came in yesterday but couldn't influence the match. Against a team sitting deep and defending their lead, ESR would have 'cooked'. So before we started protesting against a player starting or whatever, we need to consider their importance to the tactic the coach wants to execute. That's my point.

Mostob, watch "Ramsdale passing compilation of 2021/22" in YouTube. You'll see that you don't necessarily need tall players or height to give a good long ball. Ederson and Allison are good long ball passers, how many of their attackers had height??. None!!!(pre Haaland for Man City)

Just try and watch it and you'll see this your "height" reasons no hold water.

The reason why I'm even hard on Raya like this is because we already had a set system that was good and he's brought in to elevate that system. He was suppose to be the premium and from the look of things, he's our number one. I would have been less critical if they're made to compete for that role the way Arteta sold it to us

tintedniggz:
You nailed your comments! I’m yet to see him prove in any slightest that he’s better than Ramsdale. Man can’t even command his defenders the Ram does

Lol... It's just surprising Tbh.

I had a really high expectations from him and the manner Ramsdale was dropped, I expected something premium. Mehnn, I'm disappointed so far but make we dey see sha

Jodera:
When Ramsdale was punting it for us during his last two seasons, who were the height players we had? Havertz?

When Raya was adjudged to have good long ball accuracy in Brentford, who were the height players? Toney, wissa or Mbeumo?

Lol, so If Havertz go injury, Raya no go play long ball again?

And does he necessarily have to give it to Havertz? We have tall Midfielders and defenders bumping forward like Ben White, why is he not locating them. At least, Ramsdale effectively uses those group. No?

Lol... Statistically, how many of Ramsdale's long balls were accurate? Back then, most of his long balls were not even looped which made it easy for Auba to quickly knock the ball down for onrushing teammate. Laca may just drop into space and boom, Rammy would launch a low pass.



At Brentford, Toney, Wissa and even Mbeumo are players that are very good in the air irrespective of their heights. Give me one...like one player currently in our squad that is as good as them aerially. Moreso, most of Raya's long balls at Brentford were often sent to the channels towards any of the trio. Yesterday, he played the same passes but our players failed to control them. Saka and White specifically were the recipients. I've seen him played a lot of accurate long balls this season so this is not even a debate. The debate is his positioning and lack of concentration.

mostob:
It is like you don't know the extent of the damage Jorginho did to our entire system yesterday. Yes, he started against City but what exactly were his contributions? Does that mean we expect Chelsea and City games to turn out the same?


The only match Havertz started as the natural CF among all the games I listed was that community shield. Havertz might have drifted to the CF but he didn't play as a CF. Whenever Havertz move to the center, Ode will drop deep while the wingers and Rice would all contested for the second ball. (this one na another topic sha).


BTW, what I'm talking about here is what each player brings to the team not a general comparison per say. ESR came in yesterday but couldn't influence the match. Against a team sitting deep and defending their lead, ESR would have 'cooked'. So before we started protesting against a player starting or whatever, we need to consider their importance to the tactic the coach wants to execute. That's my point.

1.My point was you saying he deserves 0/10 for starting Jorginho and for the subs. Everyone knows Jorginho is not that good but you can't slate a coach for putting in his best players bar Jorginho and you say he deserves 0/10.
I agree ESR shouldn't start cos presently the game would be too big for him as he hasn't really imposed himself this season.
But you're just only on ESR forgetting that Tomi, Trossard (who scored equalising goal) and Havertz (who had a good game) are all subs too.
Giving Arteta 0/10 for both scenerios is harsh to be honest


2. You called EPL game against Man city. Everyone knows he played as Cf when he came on.
Against Crystal palace, where he really influenced the game was when he was shifted to CF and he served as outlet for aerial balls.

That same crystal palace before the switch he was average in midfield.

Jodera:
Mostob, watch "Ramsdale passing compilation of 2021/22" in YouTube. You'll see that you don't necessarily need tall players or height to give a good long ball. Ederson and Allison are good long ball passers, how many of their attackers had height??. None!!!(pre Haaland for Man City)

Just try and watch it and you'll see this your "height" reasons no hold water.

The reason why I'm even hard on Raya like this is because we already had a set system that was good and he's brought in to elevate that system. He was suppose to be the premium and from the look of things, he's our number one. I would have been less critical if they're made to compete for that role the way Arteta sold it to us

I'm not disputing this. Both are good with long balls but what gives Raya an edge are accuracy and the timing of his passes. In addition, he has this commanding presence in the box. His saves and reflexes are what we should be comparing not the long balls.


I still don't know why you're still fixated on this height stuff when I clearly mentioned other reasons too. Where the height talk even suffice was when I mentioned Havertz. it is really funny. Against City, He started going long when Havertz came in...why? there was height.


I think you should watch his YouTube compilations at Brentford.

Jodera:
1.My point was you saying he deserves 0/10 for starting Jorginho and for the subs. Everyone knows Jorginho is not that good but you can't slate a coach for putting in his best players bar Jorginho and you say he deserves 0/10.
I agree ESR shouldn't start cos presently the game would be too big for him as he hasn't really imposed himself this season.
But you're just only on ESR forgetting that Tomi, Trossard (who scored equalising goal) and Havertz (who had a good game) are all subs too.
Giving Arteta 0/10 for both scenerios is harsh to be honest


2. You called EPL game against Man city. Everyone knows he played as Cf when he came on.
Against Crystal palace, where he really influenced the game was when he was shifted to CF and he served as outlet for aerial balls.

That same crystal palace before the switch he was average in midfield.

1. If you are trying to cook soup and ended up adding kerosene to the soup as part of the ingredients, will that make the soup more delicious? One of the reasons we couldn't play our game yesterday was due to Jorginho starting and I rated the manager low for this. What exactly is wrong here? Bringing in ESR was another naive move when he knew he was going to let Chelsea have the ball.


2. You're twisting this argument bro. When you brought in a player to provide an outlet and give you an option to bypass press, where do you expect him to play? Then going by your logic, Tomi was playing CF too right? Havertz in Midfield has not really clicked for us but why was he brought in? Why not Vieira? ESR? Trossard can play CF too right? Why didn't Arteta move him to CF and bring in Nelson? Answer these questions and you would understand what I'm saying.

mostob:
Lol... Statistically, how many of Ramsdale's long balls were accurate? Back then, most of his long balls were not even looped which made it easy for Auba to quickly knock the ball down for onrushing teammate. Laca may just drop into space and boom, Rammy would launch a low pass.



At Brentford, Toney, Wissa and even Mbeumo are players that are very good in the air irrespective of their heights. Give me one...like one player currently in our squad that is as good as them aerially. Moreso, most of Raya's long balls at Brentford were often sent to the channels towards any of the trio. Yesterday, he played the same passes but our players failed to control them. Saka and White specifically were the recipients. I've seen him played a lot of accurate long balls this season so this is not even a debate. The debate is his positioning and lack of concentration.

Watching Ramsdale playing long balls for us, you won't use height as excuse


Last season, Jesus was winning a lot of aerial balls because of passes from Ramsdale. Saka, Martinelli, White were winning and receiving passes from Ramsdale. They weren't tall players.

It seems you've forgotten how I always praise Ramsdale for being a modern keeper her during most of my post match analysis

mostob:
Which of them abeg....

I said everything bros

Jodera:
While I agree Havertz helped but I think we played better due to Chelsea gifting us the first goal. It's always known that a 2 goal lead is a very very dangerous lead. Worse still was that we didn't even have to stress ourselves to score that first goal, they literally gave us.

Nothing can be more demoralising to a team that conceded in that manner and nothing can be more motivating to a team was gifted a goal in that manner. It's normal in football. It's just up to arsenal to ride with the wave because they(Chelsea) will be panicky and I'm grateful we obviously did

You just gave Chelsea all the credits for the point like we didn't have to do anything to equalise.

beIN Sports reporter to Mikel Arteta:



“Mudryk has actually come out and revealed that his goal keeping coach Toni Jiminez said that Raya likes to come out and to loop it over him!”




Arteta: “He said it was intentional? Ah okay, it didn’t seem, but if they done it on purpose then credit to them”



This one don use us collect small shine.

Spy360:
I said everything bros

Well...your opinion bro

Jodera:
Watching Ramsdale playing long balls for us, you won't use height as excuse


[b]Last season, Jesus was winning a lot of aerial balls because of passes from Ramsdale. Saka, Martinelli, White were winning and receiving passes from Ramsdale. They weren't tall players.[b]

It seems you've forgotten how I always praise Ramsdale for being a modern keeper her during most of my post match analysis

You don't have any tangible proof for this bro.....short passes? agreed but not aerial balls please. Although, I might partially agree about Jesus. I remember Ramsdale almost gave him an assist against Leceister. Even at that, his penchant to drop deep doesn't exactly make him a good outlet.


BTW why aren't you responding to the other excuse of the recipients miscontrolling the passes? That was my first major point.

mostob:
1. If you are trying to cook soup and ended up adding kerosene to the soup as part of the ingredients, will that make the soup more delicious? One of the reasons we couldn't play our game yesterday was due to Jorginho starting and I rated the manager low for this. What exactly is wrong here? Bringing in ESR was another naive move when he knew he was going to let Chelsea have the ball.


2. You're twisting this argument bro. When you brought in a player to provide an outlet and give you an option to bypass press, where do you expect him to play? Then going by your logic, Tomi was playing CF too right? Havertz in Midfield has not really clicked for us but why was he brought in? Why not Vieira? ESR? Trossard can play CF too right? Why didn't Arteta move him to CF and bring in Nelson? Answer these questions and you would understand what I'm saying.

1. So you are saying the above Is the big reasons why he should be rated 0/10 for team selection and substitutions. Starting Jorginho and subbing in Esr is the reasons he should be rated 0/10 In ystdy match?
If you don't see how harsh it is, then it's okay.


2. Tomi against Man city played as an attacker. It's a tactical switch. I won't be wrong to say he played as an attacker. If tomorrow, Tomi starts playing as Cf, then obviously he's a CF. Ben White was a CB and he started playing RB last season, nobody says he's still a CB.
So yeah, In those matches, Havertz played as a CF, it's no debate

mostob:
You don't have any tangible proof for this bro.....short passes? agreed but not aerial balls please. Although, I might partially agree about Jesus. I remember Ramsdale almost gave him an assist against Leceister. Even at that, his penchant to drop deep doesn't exactly make him a good outlet.


BTW why aren't you responding to the other excuse of the recipients miscontrolling the passes? That was my first major point.

I just told you to check that name on YouTube and you said I don't have evidence?

Ramsdale that was finding even Laca and G.jesus in deep Midfield, Auba in midfield, Saka and Martinelli In wings is who you say no evidence.

That's because it's only one you named(, Ben White). All our players can't be miscontrolling in one match. If they do, then the pass is wrong.

We no dey hear of miscontrolling during Ramsdale time

Spy360:
You just gave Chelsea all the credits for the point like we didn't have to do anything to equalise.

The first goal gave us the impetus through their mistake. Before then zero shot on target nor zero threat.

Without that goal I believe it would have ended 2-0, so yeah.

Ibime:
You like to chook mouth in Jogginghoe matter at Chelsea then. Na who wear shoe know where e dey pinch am. Taste and enjoy

😆😆😆

Jodera:
The first goal gave us the impetus through their mistake. Before then zero shot on target nor zero threat.

Without that goal I believe it would have ended 2-0, so yeah.

Did the goals come due to changes in our set up?

Jodera:
1. So you are saying the above Is the big reasons why he should be rated 0/10 for team selection and substitutions. Starting Jorginho and subbing in Esr is the reasons he should be rated 0/10 In ystdy match?
If you don't see how harsh it is, then it's okay.


2. Tomi against Man city played as an attacker. It's a tactical switch. I won't be wrong to say he played as an attacker. If tomorrow, Tomi starts playing as Cf, then obviously he's a CF. Ben White was a CB and he started playing RB last season, nobody says he's still a CB.
So yeah, In those matches, Havertz played as a CF, it's no debate

1. There are standards set by Arteta that making such silly mistakes are unacceptable. Moreso, it is my rating. I believe everybody has their own opinion on that.


2. When we were discussing, you clearly used 'CF' for Havertz but used 'attacker' for Tomi. How? You are now sure Tomi moving up top was a tactical switch yet doesn't want to believe same when it comes to Havertz. You can now see the inconsistencies. You have still not answered my questions which is my major point specifically.

Jodera:
I just told you to check that name on YouTube and you said I don't have evidence?

Ramsdale that was finding even Laca and G.jesus in deep Midfield, Auba in midfield, Saka and Martinelli In wings is who you say no evidence.

That's because it's only one you named(, Ben White). All our players can't be miscontrolling in one match. If they do, then the pass is wrong.

We no dey hear of miscontrolling during Ramsdale time

YouTube? Statistically, it has been proven that Raya has the better accuracy. This is even not debatable.


Maybe you're referring to short or low passes. None of the players you mentioned bar Jesus can confidently contest aerially for long balls and still retain possession. Even, Jesus struggles against tall and physical defenders.



I don't really think you watched our recent matches TBH. Because debating on Raya's passes is actually weird. I mentioned Saka too BTW. And my examples are as far as the last match is concerned.

Jodera:
I'm glad we drew the game ystdy cos omorr we could have easily have lost it But.....

I'm not too effused about this unbeaten ish. I mean, Man city have lost two matches yet we're still the same points just because we drew 3 matches.

It means 2 losses is equivalent to 3 draws.
Sometimes this unbeaten na scam!!

Hahh!!!!

Haaaaaa! Lai lai! Unbeaten no be scam at all ooo because should we repeat our invincible feat by winning the EPL without a loss again,

We would then be presented with a Gold plated trophy ooo unlike the silver type being given presently

Spy360:
Did the goals come due to changes in our set up?

Lol...
The first goal was a gift.

Changes in our setup yet few minutes prior the gift they were toying with our Midfield even trying all kinds of training ground skills they haven't tried before

mostob:
1. There are standards set by Arteta that making such silly mistakes are unacceptable. Moreso, it is my rating. I believe everybody has their own opinion on that.


2. When we were discussing, you clearly used 'CF' for Havertz but used 'attacker' for Tomi. How? You are now sure Tomi moving up top was a tactical switch yet doesn't want to believe same when it comes to Havertz. You can now see the inconsistencies. You have still not answered my questions which is my major point specifically.

1. You're carrying this thing personal and e no suppose to be so.
Saying Arteta got 0/10 in both selection and substitutions means there's absolute nothing he did right or what he did right is not even negligible. If that rating isn't harsh on Arteta then I don't know what is with obvious reasons. I never for once doubted it's your opinion bro, I only said it was very very harsh.

2. Lol, you don't know the difference between an attacker and a CF again?
I never claimed Havertz playing CF wasn't tactical, I only said the ONLY TIME HE IMPRESSES IS WHEN HE PLAYS AS A CF.
The crystal palace game where Havertz played Cf was a tactical switch cos that's not where he started but like I said he only impressed in that game because he moved to the CF position.
It's that simple as that.

I still dey wait for am to impress in that Midfield position.

mostob:
YouTube? Statistically, it has been proven that Raya has the better accuracy. This is even not debatable.


Maybe you're referring to short or low passes. None of the players you mentioned bar Jesus can confidently contest aerially for long balls and still retain possession. Even, Jesus struggles against tall and physical defenders.



I don't really think you watched our recent matches TBH. Because debating on Raya's passes is actually weird. I mentioned Saka too BTW. And my examples are as far as the last match is concerned.

Lol, you were the one that quoted me on this Raya issue not the other way round.

When I talk about Raya, I didn't use the last match to criticize him, I use the cumulation of our 3 big matches (Tottenham, Man City and Chelsea) and I shared my concerns. Even all my argument with you about him, I didn't specifically use Chelsea because I feel using one match to judge a keeper is not fair.

Like I said statistically, I agree that Raya was the better GK than Ramsdale and that's the main reason why I'm highly disappointed seeing what he's serving us. This is just like us having Saka and we are all happy about Saka, then Arteta goes on to buy prime Salah saying he needs him to compete with Saka. Obviously prime Salah have more stats than Saka and the expectations from him will be more(knowing his reputation). If Salah starts dropping underwhelming performances here, you think we will criticize him less? You think he was brought in not to bring in premium levels to what Saka obviously offers?

And that is my point.


Also when I mean long balls, it doesn't have to necessarily be height, sometimes even weighted low speed passes deep into the Midfield can be classified as long balls (as long it travels a long distance) and that's how Ramsdale was giving passes to our attackers.

I expected Raya to offer something much more than what I'm seeing from Ramsdale and so far I'm not seeing it. If you're seeing it, then Good for you!!

Na my heart wey dey beat whenever Raya hold ball I and some of us here dey voice out. His long balls sef is not that effective ( I don't buy that excuse of our players miscontrolling balls knowing how good all our players are in controlling balls)

Kbs468:
Haaaaaa! Lai lai! Unbeaten no be scam at all ooo because should we repeat our invincible feat by winning the EPL without a loss again,

We would then be presented with a Gold plated trophy ooo unlike the silver type being given presently

Lol, true, it'll be an admirable feat. My only hope is that we should just try and cut out any unnecessary draws sha(tho Chelsea own wasn't unnecessary).

I just don't want us to be comfortable accumulating draws while singing unbeaten not knowing we're dropping mighty points

Raya has better ball distribution than Ramsdale. Fact.
Ramsdale is taller than Raya giving him some advantage.
However overall performance of Raya has not been very convincing of recent to warrant him starting over Ramsdale.
We need to Raya time b4 we can fully judge. We have seem Ramsdale over 3 season with us. Raya only 5 games or so.

I can't remember Ramsdale playing alongside Laca .

Jodera:
1. You're carrying this thing personal and e no suppose to be so.
Saying Arteta got 0/10 in both selection and substitutions means there's absolute nothing he did right or what he did right is not even negligible. If that rating isn't harsh on Arteta then I don't know what is with obvious reasons. I never for once doubted it's your opinion bro, I only said it was very very harsh.

2. Lol, you don't know the difference between an attacker and a CF again?
I never claimed Havertz playing CF wasn't tactical, I only said the ONLY TIME HE IMPRESSES IS WHEN HE PLAYS AS A CF.
The crystal palace game where Havertz played Cf was a tactical switch cos that's not where he started but like I said he only impressed in that game because he moved to the CF position.
It's that simple as that.

I still dey wait for am to impress in that Midfield position.

1. I already gave you reasons for my rating. No need explaining further.


2. Martinelli and Saka are attackers not CF. You classified Havertz who moved to CF in a tactical switch as a CF which he is not but you couldn't said the same with Tomiyasu. You can see you're been partial here. You said he only impressed as a CF. What I'm correcting is that in some of the matches where you said he impressed as a CF, he actually started/played in Midfield.

mostob:
1. I already gave you reasons for my rating. No need explaining further.


2. Martinelli and Saka are attackers not CF. You classified Havertz who moved to CF in a tactical switch as a CF which he is not but you couldn't said the same with Tomiyasu. You can see you're been partial here. You said he only impressed as a CF. What I'm correcting is that in some of the matches where you said he impressed as a CF, he actually started/played in Midfield.

Na so...

Lush100:
Raya has better ball distribution than Ramsdale. Fact.
Ramsdale is taller than Raya giving him some advantage.
However overall performance of Raya has not been very convincing of recent to warrant him starting over Ramsdale.
We need to Raya time b4 we can fully judge. We have seem Ramsdale over 3 season with us. Raya only 5 games or so.

I can't remember Ramsdale playing alongside Laca .

Lol... Even Ramsdale played with Auba how much more Laca

2021/22 season Ramsdale played with both

Jodera:
Lol, true, it'll be an admirable feat. My only hope is that we should just try and cut out any unnecessary draws sha(tho Chelsea own wasn't unnecessary).

I just don't want us to be comfortable accumulating draws while singing unbeaten not knowing we're dropping mighty points

Exactly and our draw vs Chelsea is actually the only positive draw else the one vs Fulham was caused by Jorginho while the entire team was to be blamed for the Tottenham Hotspur draw.

Again, And interestingly, all the draws were against our London rivals and at the Emirates vs 2 in Fulham and Tottenham