₦airaland Forum

vislabraye:
Can we all be objective ? I'm sure if this happened when GEJ was in power, I bet you the whole country will come for him. That's by the way.

Every country needs foreign investors. They help the economy.
Do you think USA do not have foreign investors ?
Do you think Russia, China, Germany, France etc don't have foreign investors?
Or do you think companies like Mercedes Benz, Toyota, Porsche, Honda, HP, GE, Mersk etc only have investments in their parents companies? FYI, Toyota has offices in USA and Europe as well. Same with Benz which is a German country.
Every country needs foreign investors.
WHen an economy is failing, just admit it. It's not everything that should be politics.

My brother, ask your relative who owns a business abroad if they are considered a foreign investor. You're choosing to confuse what I'm telling you. Do you know the measures China takes to block US companies from entering their market and how much effort to puts into driving away the ones that are currently there?

Toyota in the US is a business. Ford in the US is a business. They're both treated like businesses. We hear more about 'foriegn investors' closing shop that actual nigerian businesses closing. Why? What is the difference?

You're being duped

tctrills:
First, if we are really bending over backwards as you say, businesses would be flooding in and not running away.
Let me give you a better definition of bending over backwards for businesses and then I will ask you, if you are a business man, which of these business climates would you prefer.
Bending over backwards means making it easy for businesses to incorporate and have all the needed licenses.
It means building the infrastructure that grow businesses.
It means having policies that give small businesses a little chance to disrupt.
It means funding universities and giving them independence to innovate.
It means government not being able to close down any business just for the fun of it.
It means frowning upon corruption so that businesses do not invest much of their resources on bribes.
This is what it means to bend over backwards for businesses and this is why businesses don't choose Africa.
Still on topic, Nigeria continues to bend over backwards for Dangote more than any foreign business.
Again, having free trade zones is to build your own businesses much more that foreign companies. Please ask the Chinese if you disagree.

Again .... that's a good business climate .... for everyone . We do not have a good business climate for reasons you mentioned. But we bend over backwards to attract foreign investors and that leads to exploitation. Dangote is an exception ... pretty much like him running a government entity. No doubt ... the government bends more than backwards forDangote ... but that's an exception for local businesses. I prefer the FG bend over backwards for local businesses than for foreign ones. Can we do a lot better in the business sector for both local and foreign investors to improve the economy? Absolutely ... a whole lot better but who will take greed off the table?

Originalsly:
The US does not roll out the red carpet for foreign businesses.... Nigeria does. Ease of doing business is a different topic. Free Trade Zones do not abide by the laws of the host country ... and always set up in impoverished countries for the exploitation of cheap labour. If a foreign company is mining cobalt .... employing a few hundred unskilled laborers... having them work long hours at below minimum wage ... abusing them ... making US100M per year profit but giving $1 M to the country .... is this really adding value to the economy? ... or exploitation? Depends on how you look at it.... if anyone or the economy gains anything ... no matter how small ... one can consider it beneficial to the economy... exploitation will never exist.

The free trade zones are the stupidest most backwards chimpanzee mentality concept imaginable. So you bring the so called foreign investor. They now don't pay taxes like local businesses. They don't follow laws like local businesses. They get free land, free loans often with no interest, and infrustructure that is unanimously superior to the average used by people in the same country outside of this zone. They still send all the money the make back to their home country unlike the local business. So now, the ONLY benefit is the 5-500 jobs this non-tax paying business 'creates' and they go to their home country and recruit their countrymen to do the jobs they are 'creating'.

Then a governor will be hailed for this.

adonuj:
Abeg, help America google how to land spaceship to the moon. They have not been able to do that after their fall-out with Russia.

Here is a list of every document used to guide, inform and build the Apollo 13 program

https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap13fj/a13-documents.html

Here is the blueprint and instructions for building the Apollo 13 rocket

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20090026451/downloads/20090026451.pdf

Adolfnigeria:
@Ofodirinwa
for your info all economies need multinational investors even the united states.
Its about foreign exchange and liquidity.

Btw your politicians that steal money do not invest in anything tangible that creates opportunitiesbor prosperity.

Foreign exchange is foreigners buying your products, not foreigners taking your oil and money back to their home country. That's not exchange that's extraction. Foreign exchange means trading one thing for another. If I build a biscuit factory in Nigeria, and Nigerians pay me for the biscuit then a shovel 15 million USD every year back to my home country, where is the exchange?

What foreign exchange happened? Because I spent $10,000 paying my 'local employees' to help me shovel $15,000,000 back home?
What foreign exchange is happening with MTN? MTN makes ₦1.77 trillion a year from the Nigerian market. All of that goes to their back accounts outside Nigeria. What is being exchanged?

Foriegn exchange is you making things and selling it to foreigners, not foriegners making things and selling it to you lol.

Originalsly:
Again .... that's a good business climate .... for everyone . We do not have a good business climate for reasons you mentioned. But we bend over backwards to attract foreign investors and that leads to exploitation. Dangote is an exception ... pretty much like him running a government entity. No doubt ... the government bends more than backwards forDangote ... but that's an exception for local businesses. I prefer the FG bend over backwards for local businesses than for foreign ones. Can we do a lot better in the business sector for both local and foreign investors to improve the economy? Absolutely ... a whole lot better but who will take greed off the table?

Dangote is not the exception. Every connected business man in Nigeria gets a lot of bending over. Almost every business that ever won a contract in Nigeria benefited from the bending over
Now I keep asking you, how do foreign businesses exploit you? Are you not being much more exploited by you local businesses?
I know secondary schools that pay graduates 25k a month and they are not foreign owned.

Ofodirinwa:
Africans are clowns.

You will continue courting 'FOREIGN INVESTMENT' as if it is a good thing. You will not ask yourself what is good about it.
Ok it 'creates jobs', but the minute one kpim happens, they pack up and leave. Imagine creating useless jobs that disappear when the economy is bad. Mind you, when the economy is bad is when you need jobs. So now you have a situation where when an economic problem is supposed to be a 2, it immediately becomes a 10 because you're depending on people who are ready to run when any sign of stress appears.

Please. Let them leave, and let us stop trying to pretend that 'multinationals' are worthwhile assets to ANY economy.

Agbado miscreant detected.

They can turn logic on it's head to defend their poor political choices and decisions.

How can you assert that it's better for the foreign companies that have existed over a decade to leave your country, when your country is not in anyway competitive locally.

Everything shouldn't be politicize.

Only Agbado miscreant.

The topic is about 3years you are taking about 7months
It really shows your brain capacity and also how bitter your soul is.
Not a supporter of candidate tho fyi

BossGerald:
You can never see tilumbu praise singers here...never!


Failed people

Kruzxx:
So local companies don't fold up ?

Which one of those multinationals folded up? There's a difference between folding up and leaving Nigeria. Local companies have to completely collapse for them to disappear from Nigeria. Foreign companies have to hear that there's insecurity, or get annoyed by the heat, or government and they're gone. Meanwhile the local companies, under the same conditions, don't go anywhere.

There was a time in the 00s that Saraki when he was governor invited white zimbabwean farmers. He gave them acres upon acres of free land. 100% of them got frustrated by Nigeria and left in less than 3 years. The same Nigeria that local farmers farm in daily. But they don't get free land because they are citizens and citizens, in Nigeria, have less rights and importance than foreigners. If a foreigner (SABMiller) comes to sell alcohol we celebrate and stop tasking them. Meanwhile local breweries are even triple taxed.

tctrills:
Now I keep asking you, how do foreign businesses exploit you? Are you not being much more exploited by you local businesses?
I know secondary schools that pay graduates 25k a month and they are not foreign owned.

Whatever is done by locals .... the resulting gains remain within the country and boosts the economy. Whatever is done by foreign companies ... almost the whole loaf is taken out of the country and crumbs left for the local economy. I guess we should be thankful for crumbs ... it is better than nothing.

Originalsly:
Whatever is done by locals .... the resulting gains remain within the country and boosts the economy. Whatever is done by foreign companies ... almost the whole loaf is taken out of the country and crumbs left for the local economy. I guess we should be thankful for crumbs ... it is better than nothing.

I think Crumbs is a very long stretch. I don't think China would call their deal with the iPhone and with Tesla eating of crumbs. I am not sure the US calls their over 5 trillion dollars in foreign investments crumbs. The same goes for the UK. The economies of Hong Kong and Singapore are almost completely built on foreign investments.
Foreign investment is more like a trade deal. Someone provides jobs and develops a nation in exchange for money. He pays tax to your government. He introduces new products, new technology, and capital into your economy.
He does business with the local companies thus, increasing local content. I don't see these as crumbs. I see this as a very positive thing that has lifted many nations out of poverty.
Today, Bangladesh has lower poverty and a bigger per capita income than India. 50 years ago, they were poorer than most African countries.
How did this happen? American and European fashion giants made the country their production base.
They took in billions of dollars in investment. These fashion houses came there for cheap labor. It ended up being a win-win for everyone.
The nation and people of Bangladesh were pulled out of poverty, The investors became richer and the customers could access cheaper mass-produced fashion.
I will never see this as crumbs.

tctrills:
I think Crumbs is a very long stretch. I don't think China would call their deal with the iPhone and with Tesla eating of crumbs. I am not sure the US calls their over 5 trillion dollars in foreign investments crumbs. The same goes for the UK. The economies of Hong Kong and Singapore are almost completely built on foreign investments.
Foreign investment is more like a trade deal. Someone provides jobs and develops a nation in exchange for money. He pays tax to your government. He introduces new products, new technology, and capital into your economy.
He does business with the local companies thus, increasing local content. I don't see these as crumbs. I see this as a very positive thing that has lifted many nations out of poverty.
Today, Bangladesh has lower poverty and a bigger per capita income than India. 50 years ago, they were poorer than most African countries.
How did this happen? American and European fashion giants made the country their production base.
They took in billions of dollars in investment. These fashion houses came there for cheap labor. It ended up being a win-win for everyone.
The nation and people of Bangladesh were pulled out of poverty, The investors became richer and the customers could access cheaper mass-produced fashion.
I will never see this as crumbs.

Why has Nigeria progressed half as much as the countries listed? Crumbs is not about investing but how much does the host country gain from the investment. What has Nigeria gained ? Were the conditions same as the other countries? IPhone and Tesla in China.... what has China gained? .... their technology. China is now top producer of electric cars ... surpassing Tesla. They are sekling phones and cars to the world. How about us? We got crumbs.

Originalsly:
No doubt. But what are the conditions under which foreign companies operate in the US? The US does not lay out the red carpet for foreign companies like they do in Nigeria ... neither can they just pack up and leave overnight. What we refer to as foreign investment is almost always foreign exploitation. Question to you ... how many Free Zones in the US?

So, what is the ChipsAct all about? Besides, the US is already the world's largest economy with the deepest pool of financial capital. So, she is already attractive to foreign investors. However, in areas she needs investment, carpets are rolled. Very long carpets.

It is a lie to say the US does not roll out the carpets for foreign investments.

Originalsly:
Why has Nigeria progressed half as much as the countries listed? Crumbs is not about investing but how much does the host country gain from the investment. What has Nigeria gained ? Were the conditions same as the other countries? IPhone and Tesla in China.... what has China gained? .... their technology. China is now top producer of electric cars ... surpassing Tesla. They are sekling phones and cars to the world. How about us? We got crumbs.

There again, you keep blaming the wrong people.
You ask why Nigeria has progressed half as much as these nations and I am going to give a couple of reasons.
1. Nigeria has much less foreign investment as the nations stated above.
2. Nigeria has a hopeless government and terrible policies that wouldn't allow the nation reap the reward of foreign investment.
3. Nigerian policy actually discourage foreign investment. This is very clear as we see small countries like Ghana getting more foreign investment per Capita than Nigeria.
It is wrong to blame foreign investment for our problems. Let us look inwards at our own corruption.
I personally know a few businesses that had intentions of setting up shop in Nigeria but went to Ghana because your evil government made it so hard for them.
Guinness and Michelin left Nigeria for Ghana so the idea that we bend over backwards can't be true.
Despite the fact that more than 70% of west African Twitter accounts are Nigerian, their regional headquarters is in Ghana.
So the idea that we are doing well for foreign companies is not true. We have a negative and unfriendly system.

tctrills:
There again, you keep blaming the wrong people.
You ask why Nigeria has progressed half as much as these nations and I am going to give a couple of reasons.
1. Nigeria has much less foreign investment as the nations stated above.
2. Nigeria has a hopeless government and terrible policies that wouldn't allow the nation reap the reward of foreign investment.
3. Nigerian policy actually discourage foreign investment. This is very clear as we see small countries like Ghana getting more foreign investment per Capita than Nigeria.
It is wrong to blame foreign investment for our problems. Let us look inwards at our own corruption.
I personally know a few businesses that had intentions of setting up shop in Nigeria but went to Ghana because your evil government made it so hard for them.
Guinness and Michelin left Nigeria for Ghana so the idea that we bend over backwards can't be true.
Despite the fact that more than 70% of west African Twitter accounts are Nigerian, their regional headquarters is in Ghana.
So the idea that we are doing well for foreign companies is not true. We have a negative and unfriendly system.

Bending over backwards to attract foreign investment is not the same as the local business climate. Let's say a foreign investor .... Shop Rite ... wants to fo business in Nigeria. The FG says ok ... we will provide you with land to set up your business including for parking lot..... we will provide the basic infrastructure ... roads ... drainage .... electricity.... and for communication. We will give you a tax break and duty free concession on all imports for 7 years ... the following 5 years you'll pay 1% tax. When they set up business and find they have to pay bribes etc...etc.... that's a different matter... that's about the business climate.

What is the local content?... you must employ at least 100 Nigerians. This is bending backwards. What do other countries do? They have strong local content .... you must employ 100 locals with a minimum salary of X. You must have a training programme to equip workers with the relevant skills. After 1 year at least 5 % of management staff must be locals .... products that can be sourced locally must not be imported...etc. These are the types of conditions under which foreign investors must abide by in those countries but not ours.

Originalsly:
Bending over backwards to attract foreign investment is not the same as the local business climate. Let's say a foreign investor .... Shop Rite ... wants to fo business in Nigeria. The FG says ok ... we will provide you with land to set up your business including for parking lot..... we will provide the basic infrastructure ... roads ... drainage .... electricity.... and for communication. We will give you a tax break and duty free concession on all imports for 7 years ... the following 5 years you'll pay 1% tax. When they set up business and find they have to pay bribes etc...etc.... that's a different matter... that's about the business climate.

What is the local content?... you must employ at least 100 Nigerians. This is bending backwards. What do other countries do? They have strong local content .... you must employ 100 locals with a minimum salary of X. You must have a training programme to equip workers with the relevant skills. After 1 year at least 5 % of management staff must be locals .... products that can be sourced locally must not be imported...etc. These are the types of conditions under which foreign investors must abide by in those countries but not ours.

I completely disagree with you. In the US, the only pay requirement is the minimum wage. Government dies not decide how much foreign businesses pay their staff. Also government does not mandate a transfer of technology. Also, the government of US gives tax brakes to businesses, it's not unique with Nigeria. TSMC is getting lots of tax break for investing in Arizona.
In the UK, many of the stores are owned by indians and the government does not mandate them to replace their staff with citizens.
Also, the UK bends over backwards to maintain their foreign student business.
Infact, its a much easier process to qualify become a foreign student in UK than in Nigeria. These people do everything to make come to their school.

Again, I disagree with your definition of bending over backwards but for the fun of it, it's agree you are right.
With our negative business climate, do you think we would be able to attract business without bending over backwards?
So it's either you have the right business environment or you enact favourable policies for businesses.
Again have you asked yourself why businesses prefer investing in Ghana despite our so called bending over backwards?

Very funny comments on this thread, especially those suggesting Nigeria should look beyond foreign investments.

And instead of coming from facts, I see it's coming from lots of bias.

Economies that have grown exponentially in the 20th century like Japan, South Korea, Singapore, UAE and even China have made the most of "foreign investments" in terms of technology transfer, human capacity development and forex. But those countries also have something very important going for them - that is, serious and forward-thinking leadership over several decades.

Forget IMF, World Bank and Western media for a second and let's look inward at how we have mismanaged resources.

The oil we have as a natural resource has not been properly managed over the years (as UAE has used their own and grown beyond depending on it). Not to talk of gas that is wasted daily and the multitude of other natural resources that can bring amazing real wealth to this country.

If we put our house in order, we will definitely enjoy prosperity as a nation.

@Ofodirinwa
Its about liquidity.

MTN pays staff, pays contractors , to people These people go own to buy from their communities and invest. MTN brought their foreign money into Nigeria, invested it and stimulated the society.

All societies need foreign investors, moreso Nigeria. Where the vegabonds in power invest the money outside. While within Nigeria they forment trouble.

Ofodirinwa:
Foreign exchange is foreigners buying your products, not foreigners taking your oil and money back to their home country. That's not exchange that's extraction. Foreign exchange means trading one thing for another. If I build a biscuit factory in Nigeria, and Nigerians pay me for the biscuit then a shovel 15 million USD every year back to my home country, where is the exchange?

What foreign exchange happened? Because I spent $10,000 paying my 'local employees' to help me shovel $15,000,000 back home?
What foreign exchange is happening with MTN? MTN makes ₦1.77 trillion a year from the Nigerian market. All of that goes to their back accounts outside Nigeria. What is being exchanged?

Foriegn exchange is you making things and selling it to foreigners, not foriegners making things and selling it to you lol.

Adolfnigeria:
@Ofodirinwa
Its about liquidity.

MTN pays staff, pays contractors , to people These people go own to buy from their communities and invest. MTN brought their foreign money into Nigeria, invested it and stimulated the society.

All societies need foreign investors, moreso Nigeria. Where the vegabonds in power invest the money outside. While within Nigeria they forment trouble.

but so does Glo, only Glo doesn't send 90% of its earnings to a foreign country. Business 101. If I invest 1 Naira, I except to take back 2 Naira or more. If I don't take back more than 1 Naira, I failed.

So if a foriegn company 'Brings in' 1 dollar, they must take out 2 dollars or else they failed. Whatever money they bring in, they take out more.

All societies have foreign investors, nobody needs them. It is only 3rd world countries that get told they 'need' them. No country in the developed world is breaking it's back in bring in foreign investors. Just use regular logic, there's nothing complicated about this.

Rating:
Very funny comments on this thread, especially those suggesting Nigeria should look beyond foreign investments.

And instead of coming from facts, I see it's coming from lots of bias.

Economies that have grown exponentially in the 20th century like Japan, South Korea, Singapore, UAE and even China have made the most of "foreign investments" in terms of technology transfer, human capacity development and forex. But those countries also have something very important going for them - that is, serious and forward-thinking leadership over several decades.

Forget IMF, World Bank and Western media for a second and let's look inward at how we have mismanaged resources.

The oil we have as a natural resource has not been properly managed over the years (as UAE has used their own and grown beyond depending on it). Not to talk of gas that is wasted daily and the multitude of other natural resources that can bring amazing real wealth to this country.

If we put our house in order, we will definitely enjoy prosperity as a nation.

Japan industrialized during the Meiji restoration. They brought in foreign experts (European) and sent their own people to the universities of these countries to learn. This is 'technology transfer'. Can you please explain who you think Shell coming to Nigeria to drill oil causes technology transfer? lol

If this is what you think is normal I'm only inviting you to reconsider or at least think about it again. What you're calling technology transfer is what the rest of the world calls education lol. There is nothing that is happening in a Shell refinery that you can't put in a university cirriculum and all of it is available for free online. Once you teach your people how to do it (Japan, South Korea, Singapore) they will do it.

So do you get 'technology transfer' from MTN coming to Nigeria or can a government take money aside to give Glo a grant to invest in research and development like every country you listed?


Foreign companies go to China, S.Korea. Japan etc because they need those countries, not because those countries need them. the IMF has invested a lot into lying to you because your in Africa watching their propaganda like CNN international talk trash about foreign investment and development goals. I live in the US, we can go 10 years before a politician mentions 'foriegn investment' and most of the country will see that word as something negative because it means that someone is coming to take american money to their home country.

NIGERIA MUST BE A PRODUCTIVE CENTRE OF EXCELLENCE.

@Ofodirinwa

You need to use logic and stop being apologetic for the wrongs in Nigeria. Even the so called glo you are talking about we all know its corruption money that set it up.

The political elite that embezzle money how many of Nigeria's 200M population do they employ ? How much do they add to the nations GDP ? Majority of Nigeria's population are in poverty and you here talking that we don't need foreign investment. When the guys with the money in the country would rather sleep on it or out in soak-way.

Stop supporting incompetence.

They steal the money and hide in empty air conditioned buildings all around the country. Majority of them do not even pay tax.

Yes, Nigeria needs foreign investments: because they come in, employ people, pay taxes. They do a lot better job of this than the political elite who steal majority of the nation's assets.

Why is it so difficult for you to understand that all the top 10 economies in the world all compete to attract investment and RETAIN these investments and some countries are a lot more attractive than others. For your info. even TINUBU has most of his assets in the United STATES. GSK lost more than half of its business value in Nigeria - so why retain your wealth in a currency that his MISMANAGED. U need to seek wisdom.

Ofodirinwa:
but so does Glo, only Glo doesn't send 90% of its earnings to a foreign country. Business 101. If I invest 1 Naira, I except to take back 2 Naira or more. If I don't take back more than 1 Naira, I failed.

So if a foriegn company 'Brings in' 1 dollar, they must take out 2 dollars or else they failed. Whatever money they bring in, they take out more.

All societies have foreign investors, nobody needs them. It is only 3rd world countries that get told they 'need' them. No country in the developed world is breaking it's back in bring in foreign investors. Just use regular logic, there's nothing complicated about this.

Adolfnigeria:
@Ofodirinwa

You need to use logic and stop being apologetic for the wrongs in Nigeria. Even the so called glo you are talking about we all know its corruption money that set it up.

The political elite that embezzle money how many of Nigeria's 200M population do they employ ? How much do they add to the nations GDP ? Majority of Nigeria's population are in poverty and you here talking that we don't need foreign investment. When the guys with the money in the country would rather sleep on it or out in soak-way.

Stop supporting incompetence.

They steal the money and hide in empty air conditioned buildings all around the country. Majority of them do not even pay tax.

Yes, Nigeria needs foreign investments: because they come in, employ people, pay taxes. They do a lot better job of this than the political elite who steal majority of the nation's assets.

Why is it so difficult for you to understand that all the top 10 economies in the world all compete to attract investment and RETAIN these investments and some countries are a lot more attractive than others. For your info. even TINUBU has most of his assets in the United STATES. GSK lost more than half of its business value in Nigeria - so why retain your wealth in a currency that his MISMANAGED. U need to seek wisdom.

Your actual problem is you think corrupt only exists in Nigeria lol. I can't really have this discussion with you because you have to let go of that childish idea.

@Ofodirinwa

People like you that accept mediocrity, rubbish, and give excuses to our leaders are part of the problem in this country.

Yes corruption exists in the uk, america, any and all developed countries.

But the difference between them and Nigeria is that: 63% of persons living within Nigeria (133 million people) are multidimensionally poor. Those countries do not have such human development statistics


and your government has seen it fit, since independence, to ensure the currency has devalued by over 500%...

Yes the acceptance of mediocrity and this talk that "Nigeria is not the only corrupt country", is why Nigeria is the way it is. U wey be adults na una be our problem.

 

Ofodirinwa:
Your actual problem is you think corrupt only exists in Nigeria lol. I can't really have this discussion with you because you have to let go of that childish idea.