Jodera:
What's the depth if he won't be involved in either competition?

So many dross depth in this team

Actually, he is going for another international tournament.

daveP:
make he still dey avoid am na. He think say na beans? Ucl football go change his OT. Lol

Bro.... headers are special skillset. Not everybody possesses it. Infact, you can be as long as NEPA pole and not have the ability to use your head (nodding).

afrodoc2:


1) You are comparing apples and oranges. Lampard usually played with 2 more defensive minded midfielders in order to make those runs, whether it was Mendes and Makelele or Essien and Makelele. That was when he played his best. Havertz can't play the same when his partners are Odegaard and Rice. It leaves an imbalance and lack of control in your midfield.

Lampard essentially played as the most advanced midfielder (the 10) in those successful Chelsea sides. That is the role Odegaard plays in your team albeit a bit skewed to the right. Your team required a deeper lying player to replace Xhaka not a German McTominay/VDB with excellent PR.

2) So, because the managers decided to sign them they can't be wrong? I better not find any evidence of you criticizing a manager on this site then, since a manager making a decision automatically makes it right. Also, it is not an afterthought if people predicted that it would not work out before it happened. That is the very opposite of afterthought.

Nice point bro.
For he bolded, Ode actually plays deeper than Kai. And Xhaka in his last season was more advanced.

mostob:
Nice point bro.
For he bolded, Ode actually plays deeper than Kai. And Xhaka in his last season was more advanced.

Then your manager has made a critical error and the repercussions are what you are experiencing.

I don’t think a disappearing act like Havertz can play in the same midfield with Odegaard. It will lead to loss of control and that is what is happening now.

You can play one or the other with 2 proper midfielders who are not interested in controlling space. Whatever that means.

afrodoc2:


Space wetin?

Can you name other space controllers in midfield that you know?

An easy way to identify them is that they are one touch ballers in contrast to ball carriers. Lampard, Fabregas, Muller, Nzaghi, Crespo, Trezeguet etc. These days they are hard to find among popular players

afrodoc2:


Then your manager has made a critical error and the repercussions are what you are experiencing.

I don’t think a disappearing act like Havertz can play in the same midfield with Odegaard. It will lead to loss of control and that is what is happening now.

You can play one or the other with 2 proper midfielders who are not interested in controlling space. Whatever that means.

There is a tactical flaw this season following the absence of Xhaka and especially Partey which meant less control in midfield. This tactics worked last season but it seems the team have been found out. Hence my call for a tactical change for the rest of the season. I believe the Dubai camp was to correct the tactical mistake. Who knows Kai may come back and overtake KDB in goals and assists in PL history.

Spy360:

An easy way to identify them is that they are one touch ballers in contrast to ball carriers. Lampard, Fabregas, Muller, Nzaghi, Crespo, Trezeguet etc. These days they are hard to find among popular players

You named 4 forwards and 2 midfielders.

Out of the 2 midfielders you mentioned which of them averaged 22 passes per game because he was “controlling space”?


So you can’t name another space controller midfielder currently playing football in the whole world?

Don’t restrict yourself to only premier league o. Even if it is local league we fit manage am like that.

mostob:
Nice point bro.
For he bolded, Ode actually plays deeper than Kai. And Xhaka in his last season was more advanced.

Odegaard plays deeper when Zinny is not inverting. That is in a flat 4-3-3. When Zinny is inverting it's a 3-4-3 so that both Odegaard and Kai are in advanced positions.

As for Xhaka, you are correct.

Spy360:

There is a tactical flaw this season following the absence of Xhaka and especially Partey which meant less control in midfield. This tactics worked last season but it seems the team have been found out. Hence my call for a tactical change for the rest of the season. I believe the Dubai camp was to correct the tactical mistake. Who knows Kai may come back and overtake KDB in goals and assists in PL history.

There is definitely a tactical flaw. The team has not been found out though. The problem is putting a square peg like Havertz in a round hole. That is the tactical flaw.

afrodoc2:


You named 4 forwards and 2 midfielders.

Out of the 2 midfielders you mentioned which of them averaged 22 passes per game because he was “controlling space”?


So you can’t name another space controller midfielder currently playing football in the whole world?

Don’t restrict yourself to only premier league o. Even if it is local league we fit manage am like that.

Me , Dele Alli, Youri Tielemans

That's why I said they are hard to find.

Spy360:

No everyone will have tactical eyes.

The managers, players and ex-players and national team coaches and myself know what we see.

Kai is a space controller and that skill set is difficult to see. The same way a dribbler is difficult to see.

Actually Midfield controllers are not difficult to see.

I don't know if you invented the word Space controllers cos I've never heard of anything like that in football.

I just skimmed through your other posts and I saw space controllers examples and I'm just amused.

Anything sha for Havertz. Effects of Massive Pr and JuJu

afrodoc2:


There is definitely a tactical flaw. The team has not been found out though. The problem is putting a square peg like Havertz in a round hole. That is the tactical flaw.

No Kai is not the flaw in the tactics. The flaw is that the wingers were found out. Last season teams were easily exposed to one on one situations with our wingers and both of them shined off it. This season they are double marked and because there is no plan B the whole set up now look cagey.

Xhaka could not have had a solution, except that he was a good crosser (unlike Kai), so when the LW is marked out he simply receives the ball and crosses for a header. Arsenal scored the most headers last season. But that wasn't the pattern.

An option could be to play either Trossard or ESR who could take up a wide position on the left and provide a passing option or a decoy for Martinelli. Same way Odegaard does for Saka. But when it comes to the other aspect they don't perform well compared to Kai. Basically the tactics does not work any more and requires change or adjustments.

Spy360:

I am also convinced that given time Trossard will click in that LAM position. I have also held the opinion that our best bet there is even ESR. I have so much conviction that he will overtake everybody in that position if his injuries allow him.

But for now it's all about Kai.

This is what you should get.

If you feel he'll click in that Lam position, why are you saying Kai is the best we got?

Shebi na more than one matches Kai played to become your best bet as Lam. Make Trossard play him own more than one match too

Jodera:
Actually Midfield controllers are not difficult to see.

I don't know if you invented the word Space controllers cos I've never heard of anything like that in football.

I just skimmed through your other posts and I saw space controllers and I'm just amused.

Anything sha for Havertz. Effects of Massive Pr and JuJu

Lol.

I didn't say midfield controllers, I said space controller or space reader. Google raumdeuters in football for further explanations. It's not my term.

Jodera:
Actually Midfield controllers are not difficult to see.

I don't know if you invented the word Space controllers cos I've never heard of anything like that in football.

I just skimmed through your other posts and I saw space controllers and I'm just amused.

Anything sha for Havertz. Effects of Massive Pr and JuJu

That is why i said space wetin? Controlling space in midfield with 22 passes per game?

mostob:
Actually, he is going for another international tournament.

E better like that

Spy360:

Lol.

I didn't say midfield controllers, I said space controller or space reader. Google raumdeuters in football for further explanations. It's not my term.

The only Raum.deuter in that list is Muller.
An Raum.deuters are mostly SS.

This one I dey see strikers and correct Midfielders especially Fabregas defeats your definition.

where you see your this space controllers examples from? I beg I need evidence

Jodera:
If you feel he'll click in that Lam position, why are you saying Kai is the best we got?

Shebi na more than one matches Kai played to become your best bet as Lam. Make Trossard play him own more than one match too

Kai is the best option for now. That's because compared to others that have been used there, he completes the team more. Though personally, I prefer a right footed player in that role and ESR looks good for me. I even prefer him there to Rice. Hence I will support any change that will include him and hope his recurring injuries don't spoil things all over again.

afrodoc2:


That is why i said space wetin? Controlling space in midfield with 22 passes per game?

Spy sabi invent words ehh

Jodera:

The only Raum.deuter in that list is Muller.
An Raum.deuters are mostly SS.

This one I dey see strikers and correct Midfielders especially Fabregas defeats your definition.

where you see your this space controllers examples from? I beg I need evidence

At least you found one evidence yourself, meaning that it wasn't my idea in the first place. All you now need to do is to use the evidence and apply it to other players.

Spy360:

Kai is the best option for now. That's because compared to others that have been used there, he completes the team more. Though personally, I prefer a right footed player in that role and ESR looks good for me. I even prefer him there to Rice. Hence I will support any change that will include him and hope his recurring injuries don't spoil things all over again.

Lmaoooo...
See cruise!!!!


Havertz10 = Spy360

Nothing wey anybody fit tell me.

Havertz10 give Spy360 him phone back cos I can't take it anymore

Spy360:

At least you found one evidence yourself, meaning that it wasn't my idea in the first place. All you now need to do is to use the evidence and apply it to other players.

Like I said, Raumdeuters are mostly SS and not Lam/LCM so that even tells you that your definitions are way off to what Havertz is doing.

It's like you calling ball playing CBs and you start calling Haaland and mbappe.

Who does that?

Jodera:


Like I said, Raumdeuters are mostly SS and not Lam/LCM so that even tells you that your definitions are way off to what Havertz is doing.

It's like you calling ball playing CBs and you start calling Haaland and mbappe.

Who does that?

What you're saying is similar to saying that dribblers are mostly midfielders or sweepers are only defenders.

Today goalkeepers have been sweepers, dribblers have been defenders so why can space readers be midfielders.

For your information, Muller was a 10. A SS is basically an advanced midfielder. Kai can be a SS in the LAM position so what's your problem?

Now look at the pix below that describes Thomas Muller, change the name to Kai Havertz and see if the description also fits.

Spy360:

What you're saying is similar to saying that dribblers are mostly midfielders or sweepers are only defenders.

Today goalkeepers have been sweepers, dribblers have been defenders so why can space readers be midfielders.

For your information, Muller was a 10. A SS is basically an advanced midfielder. Kai can be a SS in the LAM position so what's your problem?

Now look at the pix below that describes Thomas Muller, change the name to Kai Havertz and see if the description also fits.

Sweepers are mostly for GK and CBs.
A FB can't be a sweeper neither can an attacker be a sweeper. Go look for the definition of sweeper and educate yourself.

Kai can't play Ss as an Lam/LCM. I don't know where you're getting all these stuff from. As like saying Alonso (of Chelsea) is playing striking from defence because he scores goals.
Ss predominantly plays close to the Striker in an advanced position and hardly drops deep.

Will you be truthful that that's what Havertz plays here??

Finally, the pictures below describes Muller.

Show me the attributes of a Raumd.euter not Muller characteristics?

Space controller. Didn’t know Aang the airbender now plays football.

This is hardly surprising when you realise that its origins start with a current player — the aforementioned Thomas Müller, who invented the term himself.



He's usually defined as being in the Number 10 slot behind the striker, in a 4-2-3-1 shape...

And lastly, Raum.deuter are known as Space interpretators or investigators and not "space controllers" as you make us to believe

We can see that it's Muller who invented it, yet Spy360 you say examples are Old men crespo, old men Inzaghi and old men Trezeguet.

Lastly the other examples given are Callejon and Delle Alli. These are players who played predominantly as SS during their prime in Napoli and Tottenham respectively.

We don't use 4231 so any Rau.mdeuter for Havertz is totally wrong cos we don't use one

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://jobsinfootball.com/blog/raumdeuter-role-explained/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiy5OPsstqDAxWbU0EAHV7ZC1wQFnoECAMQAg&usg=AOvVaw2L26_PMniWQLyEtZm_pwfB

Here's the link Spy in case you're interested.
Not the one you're describing me Muller saying it's Raumdeuter definition.

Leyqute:
Space controller. Didn’t know Aang the airbender now plays football.

Person dey control space without ball

Nothing wey we no go hear for Havertz matter

Space controller. 😂😂😂 Tor.
At this point, it feels like Spy is just trolling.
Na Arteta and Havertz sabi. This season is almost over for us anyways (unless a miracle happens).

Ahhhhh🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

O ma se o!!

When you see someone inventing new words from their own list of vocabulary just to defend a player whose ability is non existence, just know the player is trash.

Spy360:

An easy way to identify them is that they are one touch ballers in contrast to ball carriers. Lampard, Fabregas, Muller, Nzaghi, Crespo, Trezeguet etc. These days they are hard to find among popular players

Remove Fabregas here abeg. I'm not disputing your points but Fabregas was more than what you're saying here.