₦airaland Forum

mostob:
Excellent analysis. That Liverpool game was one of Arteta's best from tactical POV.
However, TBH, this video didn't categorically states who is cerebral, who is cerebellum and who is medulla oblongata. It is just a match analysis.

No the video was referenced to show that some players especially Havertz and Jorginho are cerebral players. I guess you and Jodera missed the first few seconds where he points to his head saying that Havertz is full of brains.

What that analysis aimed at is that it was our cerebral players that made the difference against Liverpool otherwise that game was a balanced draw.

Jodera:
Is the bolded you trying to indirectly tell us you formed those terms from your head yet you want us to just gobble it up because you're the alpha and omega of football?
Even people wey dey embark on project, write articles and essays always have references to show yet you couldn't even bring one. Typical you, always forming words and definition of football terms from your head then turn around to accuse me of always rejecting it.

NB: Just because Havertz was instrumental in the first goal against Liverpool doesn't make him the "brain" in our team. I've watched that video a day after our win against Liverpool and because of you I have to rewatch it again, no where was cerebral ever mentioned (which was what I asked you to bring).
I guess you didn't watch his analysis Vs west ham where he specifically said it's through Odegaard our football flows and it was an in-game decision from Arteta that White have to play the Inverted role just so that Odegaard would be accessible. To put it clearly, Arteta basically have to bring Odegaard into the game for we to break their defensive shape.
If you've not watched it, see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5beivGJWHFc?si=4v65V5EPBhoo_3QD


Also, try and watch this too and see how Rice is also the brains behind this team. It also answers why we always need a false 9(in this system) instead of the traditional 9 most of us are always clamouring for here.

A traditional 9 won't make this system flow well. It's one of the main reasons arsenal got better when Auba was exiled and it's also one of the main reasons Nketiah isn't seeing match presently again (Jesus, Havertz, Trossard in that order). I'll encourage all of us to watch it if we haven't

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPEJlPKWY84?si=5UEvVbh_JeAYR34f

Lol. You will always go off point trying to catch up with my intelligent analysis.

Mind you, my hypothesis on players' skillset is a personal and not a scientific principle and so you have no obligation to accept it. However, you were not able to refute it either. You failed to give one single logical reason why you rejected it. You simply asked for a reference which I gave for showing that players can be cerebral.

As for the video you posted, it was not about Rice but about Arteta and his tactical formation. You are right that a striker will not do well playing in that formation. I have already seen and talked about this since like months ago when you were still a tactical toddler and argued about why Gabriel Jesus isn't scoring goals like every other striker. Remember?

In that same video you posted at the end of it, it was obvious that though all the players must be involved, the main deciding factor in Arteta's positionless tactics is Havertz and not Rice.

Like I said before Havertz is a space controller and interpreter which you argued for days with me. It's funny how you argue with me but still prove me right by trying to prove smart. 🤣

daveP:
That's tue more reason coach playing him as CF is wack. If football was 12 men i wouldn't mind having him in any free role on the pitch. What's painful is he's missed 16 chances to bury balls this season. If we didn't win most of those games by others scoring, even you no go wan talk or defend him. But yeah, off the ball.

It would be nice if he were a good goal scorer and finisher. However those are not the reasons Arteta plays him as a CF. In fact he is not really playing CF. He is just occupying a space to create chances for others. Our main goal outlets in that team are Saka and Martinelli/Trossard. The earlier we get this the better our analysis of the game.

Gary Neville in March 2023: "I wouldn't be spending £110m or £120m on Declan Rice if I was Manchester United this summer. I would spend £50m-£60m on Declan Rice, but I wouldn't spend the figures being reported because I feel in that position, I still feel like he's got a lot to grow." [@GNev2 via @centredevils]

clown

Jodera:
Actually, I knew he formed all those things from his head especially with those accompanying examples but I just wanted to give him benefits of doubt to prove me wrong.

Him no disappoint at all

But I won't deny that there is an iota of truth in what he said. Though the way he classified them and his examples may be debatable. Spy na one of a kind.

Jodera:
Actually, I knew he formed all those things from his head especially with those accompanying examples but I just wanted to give him benefits of doubt to prove me wrong.

Him no disappoint at all

Off course it came from my head. There was never at any part of that post did I say it is an established scientific law. It came from my head. The question you should be asking is if it was right or wrong.

I'll also like to see something that came from your head.

daveP:
Okay. I get you.


Me i just felt like he rushed Auba into it. Someone is used to a system for decade of his career approaching 30 and you want to now change his OT of attacking just like that. Not that he was not scoring o. Golden boot too o.

The grace he's giving Kai, he never gave Auba. The ish is no one can determine the depth of a fall off with a manager. That's where Auba really messed up.


They don't suit style, yet ya forcing figs to turn apples?? Haba.

There is really no need to discredit the manager with all this Kai slander.
Fact is Auba was never serious. Like he lost interest in everything we were doing. How many months did it take the like of Xhaka, Saka and even Martinelli to adapt? Auba was not the only one... Pepe and even Sambi failed to adapt. That your second paragraph no follow abeg.

mostob:
But I won't deny that there is an iota of truth in what he said. Though the way he classified them and his examples may be debatable. Spy na one of a kind.

It open for debate.

You ask yourself, what's special about this player. Is it his physical attribute or his technical or his brains.

Saying that White and Havertz are cerebral players does not suggest that they are the best. That's is just what makes them unique.

Ordinary the best player should have a high dose of all three skillsets and not just major on one. For example, Saka has a lot of pace and stamina, he can also dribble and curl the ball, but he is also very good with his brains in his spacial awareness and movements.

Saka, Odegaard and Rice have the best combination at the club.

Spy360:
No the video was referenced to show that some players especially Havertz and Jorginho are cerebral players. I guess you and Jodera missed the first few seconds where he points to his head saying that Havertz is full of brains.

What that analysis aimed at is that it was our cerebral players that made the difference against Liverpool otherwise that game was a balanced draw.

Ok..
Let's check your examples. You classified Kai as the brain of the team and Jesus as the 'hand'. Meanwhile, both actually does the same thing and play the same role.

You mentioned White as a cerebral player but he had nothing to do with all the goals that was analysed in that video.

Infact, going by your last paragraph, Gabriel, Martinelli, Zinchenko and Saka should be classified as cerebral players. You can see where you're contradicting yourself now.

mostob:
There is really no need to discredit the manager with all this Kai slander.
Fact is Auba was never serious. Like he lost interest in everything we were doing. How many months did it take the like of Xhaka, Saka and even Martinelli to adapt? Auba was not the only one... Pepe and even Sambi failed to adapt. That your second paragraph no follow abeg.

Was Auba a failure? Football wise that's very far from the truth. Auba's problems were off the field issues not onfield.

Spy360:
It open for debate.

You ask yourself, what's special about this player. Is it his physical attribute or his technical or his brains.

Saying that White and Havertz are cerebral players does not suggest that they are the best. That's is just what makes them unique.

Ordinary the best player should have a high dose of all three skillsets and not just major on one. For example, Saka has a lot of pace and stamina, he can also dribble and curl the ball, but he is also very good with his brains in his spacial awareness and movements.

Saka, Odegaard and Rice have the best combination at the club.

Havertz is more of physical player though. He is being used as a target man at times. He understands the art of movement and spaces. But the fact that he can't dictate the tempo of the game on his own, rules him out of being classified as a cerebral player.

Spy360:
Was Auba a failure? Football wise that's very far from the truth. Auba's problems were off the field issues not onfield.

I think you should direct this to DaveP.

mostob:
Ok..
Let's check your examples. You classified Kai as the brain of the team and Jesus as the 'hand'. Meanwhile, both actually does the same thing and play the same role.

You mentioned White as a cerebral player but he had nothing to do with all the goals that was analysed in that video.

Infact, going by your last paragraph, Gabriel, Martinelli, Zinchenko and Saka should be classified as cerebral players. You can see where you're contradicting yourself now.

Lol. I think you didn't understand my analysis in what I posted. You should be asking questions and not trying to argue, it an analysis OK.

Now first look at the players as individuals first before looking at their roles.

What are their attributes?

Then tell us why you would consider Gabriel, Zinchenko, Martinelli and Saka as cerebral players? Why?

Spy360:
Lol. I think you didn't understand my analysis in what I posted. You should be asking questions and not trying to argue, it an analysis OK.

Now first look at the players as individuals first before looking at their roles.

What are their attributes?

Then tell us why you would consider Gabriel, Zinchenko, Martinelli and Saka as cerebral players? Why?

No need for unnecessary drags. You mentioning White and Kai as cerebral players is what I'm arguing against. The explanation of cerebral you put up there doesn't correlate with their attributes.

mostob:
Gary Neville in March 2023: "I wouldn't be spending £110m or £120m on Declan Rice if I was Manchester United this summer. I would spend £50m-£60m on Declan Rice, but I wouldn't spend the figures being reported because I feel in that position, I still feel like he's got a lot to grow." [@GNev2 via @centredevils]

clown

Una too they give relevance to all these clowns(carragher, owen, neville, shearer, even th14)
These are guys that can't survive coaching and run to pundit for cover.

Arteta on Fabio Vieira:

“He’s very close. He’s been training already for a few days with the team, so I think it’s very close.

“He’ll be back probably faster than we expected and he’s in a good place. There is a chance (he could play vs Porto) – yes.”

mostob:
No need for unnecessary drags. You mentioning White and Kai as cerebral players is what I'm arguing against. The explanation of cerebral you put up there doesn't correlate with their attributes.

What then are their attributes and how will you classfy them?

White played inverted midfield against West Ham. Which was what gave Odegaard the freedom to destroy their defense.

Spy360:
White played inverted midfield against West Ham. Which was what gave Odegaard the freedom to destroy their defense.

Boss, please what's inverted midfield?

How can someone play there?

akwesenana:
Boss, please what's inverted midfield?

How can someone play there?

Inverted fullback actually. Playing RB and drifting into midfield. Other examples are TAA and Walker

daveP:
Okay. I get you.


Me i just felt like he rushed Auba into it. Someone is used to a system for decade of his career approaching 30 and you want to now change his OT of attacking just like that. Not that he was not scoring o. Golden boot too o.

The grace he's giving Kai, he never gave Auba. The ish is no one can determine the depth of a fall off with a manager. That's where Auba really messed up.


They don't suit style, yet ya forcing figs to turn apples?? Haba.

Well, the thing is that is just the off field issues of Auba that facilitated things. Arteta was ready to give him chances esp since Auba helped arsenal and to a large extent Arteta in keeping his job with goals and fa cup. Remember the last season Auba was really trying to always come deep and try to facilitate things during the 2021/22 season?

He tried but he just didn't have the attributes. It was just during his exile(which was his fault) that arsenal really picked up big form with Laca as Cf

mostob:
But I won't deny that there is an iota of truth in what he said. Though the way he classified them and his examples may be debatable. Spy na one of a kind.

I'm not doubting his iota of truth. Everyone knows there's physical and technical players or skills, the one category no one knows is cerebral. Oya where did he get it from?
How did White, Elneny (jeezzzz), Havertz and Jorginho fit into the narratives in this team?

That's where is pure lie

Spy360:
Off course it came from my head. There was never at any part of that post did I say it is an established scientific law. It came from my head. The question you should be asking is if it was right or wrong.

I'll also like to see something that came from your head.

You can't coin a term and expect us to gobble it up. You ought to have references. Read any footballing analytical opinions in sites or blog and stuffs like what you wrote always always have references to back it up. That doesn't mean you can't write something off your head through observations.

Even if I give you doubt for Cerebral players, with your definition and examples, it's way off.

You said Rice is more cerebral than Elneny yet you called Elneny a cerebral player while Rice is a physical abi technical player. You just dey muddle everything up and you think you made sense

Jodera:
I'm not doubting his iota of truth. Everyone knows there's physical and technical players or skills, the one category no one knows is cerebral. Oya where did he get it from?
How did White, Elneny (jeezzzz), Havertz and Jorginho fit into the narratives in this team?

That's where is pure lie

I think they might be cerebral players sha. Although it kinda falls under technical, I feel there's a little difference.

Spy360:
No the video was referenced to show that some players especially Havertz and Jorginho are cerebral players. I guess you and Jodera missed the first few seconds where he points to his head saying that Havertz is full of brains.

What that analysis aimed at is that it was our cerebral players that made the difference against Liverpool otherwise that game was a balanced draw.

So havertz is full of brains now makes him the "brain" of the team?

At this point na comprehension you suppose dey get first. I'm sorry

akwesenana:
I think they might be cerebral players sha. Although it kinda falls under technical, I feel there's a little difference.

no difference between what he gave as cerebral players and what we know as technical players. But the chief thing I note is that he claims with cerebral players, they're the brains of the team.

Na only person wey no dey watch arsenal go see Havertz and White call dem "brains of the team"

Spy360:
Lol. You will always go off point trying to catch up with my intelligent analysis.

Mind you, my hypothesis on players' skillset is a personal and not a scientific principle and so you have no obligation to accept it. However, you were not able to refute it either. You failed to give one single logical reason why you rejected it. You simply asked for a reference which I gave for showing that players can be cerebral.

Wait, You're claiming it's a hypothetical skillset? Like you are watching something and you're still doing hypothesis in something we all are observing?
And same you still claim it's personal and when you wanted to start your article you started with :
"There are three categories of skills for footballers. They are physical, technical and cerebral"

Imagine you stating the above in italics and still claim it's hypothetical and personal.


You're not serious Spy. I no dey argue hypothetical and personal things.

How you want make I argue 1+1= 11 with you when it's your own personal calculation.

When you bring something that's general instead of personal and you bring something that's observatory instead of hypothetical we can have a discussion.

Gracias!!

Spy360:
What then are their attributes and how will you classfy them?

Both maybe under physical or technical.
But Cerebral? No. They're not the brain of the team as you claimed. Replace them with Tomiyasu and Jesus and we will still be fine. Those are not the kind of players you termed as cerebral.

Spy360:
It would be nice if he were a good goal scorer and finisher. However those are not the reasons Arteta plays him as a CF. In fact he is not really playing CF. He is just occupying a space to create chances for others. Our main goal outlets in that team are Saka and Martinelli/Trossard. The earlier we get this the better our analysis of the game.

Are you saying that the coach is very aware that Kai is not expected to finish 1v1 or big chances? He doesn't need to play that position to score either(false or actual cf)

mostob:
There is really no need to discredit the manager with all this Kai slander.
Fact is Auba was never serious. Like he lost interest in everything we were doing. How many months did it take the like of Xhaka, Saka and even Martinelli to adapt? Auba was not the only one... Pepe and even Sambi failed to adapt. That your second paragraph no follow abeg.

We all know how cocky it was very early on being a young manager. It's not discrediting as you call it but a preference for one compared to one that's proven. Yeah he lost interest cos MA too was trying to change a 9 in prime time to fit his philosophy in under a season. That's like asking Benzema or Kane to change style from what they're traditionally known to have played for 10yrs. Figs vs Apples situo. We can also agree that Auba had a bad attitude too. All that failed to adapt are out las las. Physiological.

Jodera:
Well, the thing is that is just the off field issues of Auba that facilitated things. Arteta was ready to give him chances esp since Auba helped arsenal and to a large extent Arteta in keeping his job with goals and fa cup. Remember the last season Auba was really trying to always come deep and try to facilitate things during the 2021/22 season?

He tried but he just didn't have the attributes. It was just during his exile(which was his fault) that arsenal really picked up big form with Laca as Cf

It looked lile he wanted to give him chance cos nobody dey again. We were all here together na when we were vexed at player management plus the lazy attitudes of players as well. I rem the late coming and all but I'm focusing on the role playing aspect. Not defending the guy. He messed up!!

daveP:
It looked lile he wanted to give him chance cos nobody dey again. We were all here together na when we were vexed at player management plus the lazy attitudes of players as well. I rem the late coming and all but I'm focusing on the role playing aspect. Not defending the guy. He messed up!!

The role aspect, I still believe Arteta would have still used Auba till maybe he(Auba) will leave on a good term. I believed Arteta knew he owes him that. Even though his man-management was poor in the beginning, there were some few people Arteta can't do without and Auba once among those alongside Xhaka.

Na just Auba cast everything.