₦airaland Forum

tshtsh:
Like you said everyone has what they want. I grew up in northern Nigeria where my parents worked in the academia. Moved to USA at age 19 and moved to UK at age 23. Returned to Nigeria after Grad school at age 25 and worked for three years (NYSC year, one year at a tech company and a little over one year in a bank). Moved to South Africa on a work permit in 2021 and moved to Canada in 2022. Growing up in Nigeria did me no harm. If anything I keep going back to Nigeria on vacation every 6 months. I understand the country and the people and I'm grateful for spending my formative years in Nigeria.
When I meet Nigerians who have lived for long in Canada and USA I even appreciate my years in Nigeria more. They are very naive. They think they are in paradise (carrying heavy debts and living the rat race) while they also Nigeria is hell . Their host society has changed their way of thinking to the point that they think every rich Nigerian is a thief.
How many Nigerian immigrants or children of Nigerian immigrants lead Fortune 500 companies today ? My guess is zero or one but most likely zero. What is the social capital of an average immigrant ? In Nigeria I worked for three years but the social capital I built is much more valuable to me than the one I have in USA or even Canada.
To each there own though

This is what loads of guys here fail to understand. If you have enough money in Nigeria, you can almost have everything xcept buying a life to replace yours. Untap resources and Biz ideas.

Duplicate

tshtsh:
Like you said everyone has what they want. I grew up in northern Nigeria where my parents worked in the academia. Moved to USA at age 19 and moved to UK at age 23. Returned to Nigeria after Grad school at age 25 and worked for three years (NYSC year, one year at a tech company and a little over one year in a bank). Moved to South Africa on a work permit in 2021 and moved to Canada in 2022. Growing up in Nigeria did me no harm. If anything I keep going back to Nigeria on vacation every 6 months. I understand the country and the people and I'm grateful for spending my formative years in Nigeria.
When I meet Nigerians who have lived for long in Canada and USA I even appreciate my years in Nigeria more. They are very naive. They think they are in paradise (carrying heavy debts and living the rat race) while they also Nigeria is hell . Their host society has changed their way of thinking to the point that they think every rich Nigerian is a thief.
How many Nigerian immigrants or children of Nigerian immigrants lead Fortune 500 companies today ? My guess is zero or one but most likely zero. What is the social capital of an average immigrant ? In Nigeria I worked for three years but the social capital I built is much more valuable to me than the one I have in USA or even Canada.
To each there own though

erico2k2:
This is what loads of guys here fail to understand. If you have enough money in Nigeria, you can almost have everything xcept buying a life to replace yours. Untap resources and Biz ideas.

Biz ideas? Why is unemployment so high in Nigeria if there's so much business to tap. How come the biggest crude oil and natural gas producer in Africa has petrol scarcity and c mains electricity supply is dead?

Nigeria is a business heaven and ALSO the Poverty Capital of the World. Make it make sense for me please. You guys brag for nothing.

So why you don't you both live PERMANENTLY in Nigeria? I used to visit Nigeria often in my early years and because I believed all the patriotic spiels and tales of nativist power and also with faith in the early PDP years of reform, yes I was naive enough to have left a job at the NUMBER ONE ranked hospital in the whole world and abandoned it to return to Nigeria.

Social capital is built over time. My children and grandchildren will have more social capital than me. I have more social capital in the USA now than in Nigeria, but then I came from a lower middle class home, my parents were secondary school teachers, maybe yours were higher status and thus you have more recognition.

Those who think they have social capital in Nigeria, get injured in an accident on a highway and see if you get hospital service without paying out a CASH deposit, have your car stolen and see if police will investigate.

If you're Igbo, any Oba can seize your house in Lagos and nothing will be done about it. How come the Northern rioters who killed all those Yoruba youth corpers in 2011 are only getting arrested this year under Tinubu? Apparently Yoruba social capital has increased tremendously in the past one year

Social capital my nyash....yeye de smell.

Good Luck to Nigeria.

IbeOkehie:
Biz ideas? Why is unemployment so high in Nigeria if there's so much business to tap. How come the biggest crude oil and natural gas producer in Africa has petrol scarcity and c mains electricity supply is dead?

Nigeria is a business heaven and ALSO the Poverty Capital of the World. Make it make sense for me please. You guys brag for nothing.

So why you don't you both live PERMANENTLY in Nigeria? I used to visit Nigeria often in my early years and because I believed all the patriotic spiels and tales of nativist power and also with faith in the early PDP years of reform, yes I was naive enough to have left a job at the NUMBER ONE ranked hospital in the whole world and abandoned it to return to Nigeria.

Social capital is built over time. My children and grandchildren will have more social capital than me. I have more social capital in the USA now than in Nigeria, but then I came from a lower middle class home, my parents were secondary school teachers, maybe yours were higher status and thus you have more recognition.

Those who think they have social capital in Nigeria, get injured in an accident on a highway and see if you get hospital service without paying out a CASH deposit, have your car stolen and see if police will investigate.

If you're Igbo, any Oba can seize your house in Lagos and nothing will be done about it. How come the Northern rioters who killed all those Yoruba youth corpers in 2011 are only getting arrested this year under Tinubu? Apparently Yoruba social capital has increased tremendously in the past one year

Social capital my nyash....yeye de smell.

Good Luck to Nigeria.

point of correction not everyone is Igbo or yoruba in Nigeria, some of us are from Rivers Delta and Edo state.
I say Biz Ideas untapped that is what is attracting the Chinese to Africa as a whole.
People travel out of Nigeria for various reasons.
Regards Biz, this include those who already know what Biz they can do or are doing in small scale then travel abroad to hustle for initial capital. This is next to never in Nigeria cos the lack of money will kill you and your dreams in Nigeria .You should try and come more to the Building section and the Auto sections of this forum.There is such word as HUSTLER though

erico2k2:
point of correction not everyone is Igbo or yoruba in Nigeria, some of us are from Rivers Delta and Edo state.
I say Biz Ideas untapped that is what is attracting the Chinese to Africa as a whole.
People travel out of Nigeria for various reasons.
Regards Biz, this include those who already know what Biz they can do or are doing in small scale then travel abroad to hustle for initial capital. This is next to never in Nigeria cos the lack of money will kill you and your dreams in Nigeria .You should try and come more to the Building section and the Auto sections of this forum.There is such word as HUSTLER though

Why is it NOBODY wants to discuss the experience of those who moved back to Nigeria in the 1970s? Mmmmm.

I've posted enough about my own experience. I understand there are successful people there, I actually moved back in 2011 and I met such people. Success is basically an equivalent to at least a middle class Western lifestyle, the whole world aspires to that.

The truth is you must be blessed with EXTRAORDINARY drive, intellect, talent, wickedness or social capital to achieve success in Nigeria. Out in the Anglo-West that kind of outstanding endowment is not necessary.

You can keep selling that Nigerian Dream to ignorant people. We've been reading your kind on Nairaland since 2005. The threads are there, anyone can go read and draw conclusions based on reality.

Only 7% of the population in Lagos State have a working flush toilet. I repeat...if you want to experience, interact with or observe POVERTY, then Nigeria is the place to be.

Good Luck to Nigeria.

tshtsh:
How many Nigerian immigrants or children of Nigerian immigrants lead Fortune 500 companies today ?.
To each there own though

80% of the 10 top earning CEOs of quoted companies in Nigeria are FOREIGNERS, many Asian, not even Europeans.

The top earning CEO of a quoted company in Nigeria is the that of Dangote Cement, he's NOT a Nigerian. His TOTAL COMPENSATION is $600K per year.

Dude, I know TWO Nigerian EMPLOYEE doctors in my small city here that earn more than that. They may not be CEOs but they're paid higher than the highest earning CEO in Nigeria...and that CEO is not even Nigerian!

A White man can kill you in Nigeria and NOTHING will happen and you know it. For YOU in particular, the only reason it will even raise dust is that you're likely carrying a Western passport.

Please stop ✋️ Enough abeg.

Good Luck to Nigerians

Love800:
Okay.
You are a student. Which program are doing. Undergraduate studies or masters?

And i thought the work you get as a student hardly sustain one?

masters

IbeOkehie:
Why is it NOBODY wants to duscuss the experience of those who moved back to Nigeria in the 1970s? Mmmmm.

I've posted enough about my own experience. I understand there are successful people there, I actually moved back in 2011 and I met such people. Success is basically an equivalent to at least a middle class Western lifestyle, the whole world aspires to that.

The truth is you must be blessed with EXTRAORDINARY drive, intellect, talent, wickedness or social capital to achieve success in Nigeria. Out in the Anglo-West that kind of outstanding endowment is not necessary.

You can keep selling that Nigerian Dream to ignorant people. We've been reading your kind on Nairaland since 2005. The threads are there, anyone can go read and draw conclusions based on reality.

Only 7% of the population in Lagos State have a working flush toilet. I repeat...if you want to experience, interact with or observe POVERTY, then Nigeria is the place to be.

Good Luck to Nigeria.

This is ignorant, sorry to say, you seem to be amongs the small % of those who have social and economic disconnect with Nigeria.
There are people like you abroad who think the vast majority of Nigerians are dying. Yes it is though. Corruption is high, this is everywhere. I have moved my family back to Nigeria years ago.I cam to the Uk as a young man in 2000.I have friends in PH who visit the UK like no mans Biz.I also have friends on N100k a month salary in same PH.I can also tell you this free of charge. Over the past 24 years I have seen people pay off thier mortgage, then sell the house and move into Old people's home and no one visits them sometimes in a whole year. If you have lived abroad for a very long time say like 25 years and you are still under 50, you thinking will def be different, You say I am selling Nigeria to ignorant people, So you think people who do not travel are ignorant??(Bross no dey bragg just cos God butter your bread you manage enter Abroad you go call a whole people wey dey try Ignorant cos lass lass nah there U from) I think right there you just redefined SELLING lol I don't have to sell nothing as a matter of fact stay abroad for ever die there get buried there, how does that affect the price of garri o n the street?Bros the reality on ground in Nigeria as I have found is this, NO ONE CARES!

IbeOkehie:
80% of the 10 top earning CEOs of quoted companies in Nigeria are FOREIGNERS, many Asian, not even Europeans.

The top earning CEO of a quoted company in Nigeria is the that of Dangote Cement, he's NOT a Nigerian. His TOTAL COMPENSATION is $600K per year.

Dude, I know TWO Nigerian EMPLOYEE doctors in my small city here that earn more than that. They may not be CEOs but they're paid higher than the highest earning CEO in Nigeria...and that CEO is not even Nigerian!

A White man can kill you in Nigeria and NOTHING will happen and you know it. For YOU in particular, the only reason it will even raise dust is that you're likely carrying a Western passport.

Please stop ✋️ Enough abeg.

Good Luck to Nigerians

We've met many like you in USA who don't know anything about PPP. Money is what it can do for you. Numbers means nothing. A single person earning the equivalent of $1,000 a month in Nigeria can save $600 and still live comfortably in a utility-provided estate. A person Earning $3,000 a month in a small town in Virginia may just be able to afford to rent a room in someone's house. Your $600k a year neighbor cannot match the spending power or afford the lifestyle or asset portfolio of the Dangote Cement CEO or any bank CEO in Nigeria. Its people that don't know nigeria that use salaries to rate people. Bank CEO's in some of Nigeria's banks get 0.5% or 1% of PAT as bonus annually. I hear in GTBank the CEO gets 2%. Dividends also flows to them. Allowances are multiple times their salaries.
Enjoy your USA and let those who have lived a middle income life in both USA & Nigeria do what they want to do. A Dangote Cement CEO has a huge social capital and is an industry captain with probably high level of job satisfaction. We've seen successful doctors in Potomac MD still complain about USA with plans to setup a practice back home. Aliko Dangote is the CEO of his company. That he hired a CEO to head his cement business doesn't mean the foreign CEO is his boss. Austin Avuru is the boss of Seplat. That he hired a scottish CEO does not mean the Scottish man is his boss. Until I start to see black Nigerian immigrants heading fortune 500 coys or build unicorns in USA I will continue to maintain that a glass ceiling on blacks exist. Show me a Nigerian in USA who achieved half of what Herbert Wigwe achieved in his lifetime in USA.

erico2k2:
This is ignorant, sorry to say, you seem to be amongs the small % of those who have social and economic disconnect with Nigeria.
There are people like you abroad who think the vast majority of Nigerians are dying. Yes it is though. Corruption is high, this is everywhere. I have moved my family back to Nigeria years ago.I cam to the Uk as a young man in 2000.I have friends in PH who visit the UK like no mans Biz.I also have friends on N100k a month salary in same PH.I can also tell you this free of charge. Over the past 24 years I have seen people pay off thier mortgage, then sell the house and move into Old people's home and no one visits them sometimes in a whole year. If you have lived abroad for a very long time say like 25 years and you are still under 50, you thinking will def be different, You say I am selling Nigeria to ignorant people, So you think people who do not travel are ignorant??(Bross no dey bragg just cos God butter your bread you manage enter Abroad you go call a whole people wey dey try Ignorant cos lass lass nah there U from) I think right there you just redefined SELLING lol I don't have to sell nothing as a matter of fact stay abroad for ever die there get buried there, how does that affect the price of garri o n the street?Bros the reality on ground in Nigeria as I have found is this, NO ONE CARES!

You even tried to respond to him. I see many like him in Canada who think Canada is heaven and continue to share data about Nigeria's poverty and all that. The society has wired them to think the rat ace life they live is paradise. There are Nigerians doing amazingly well in Nigeria and there are those struggling to get by. As a person I make decisions based on what works for me not based on some data. Some of them return to Nigeria on wheel chair in old age and live a miserable life after living the rat race life abroad

tshtsh:
We've met many like you in USA who don't know anything about PPP.

Nonsense. Money is money and even on PPP or the Economist Big Mac Index, Nigeria is one of the most expensive places to live in the world. If indeed you've considered the subject logically, you know this. That's the data.

But I've also done my own personal measure. In 2010 I travelled to 4 countries on a 6 month tour before moving to Nigeria. I lived in FAMILY HOMES with real people, not in hotels...developed AND developing countries. I found that Nigeria was the most expensive for SIMILAR QUALITY of goods and services. It's undeniable. Even the PETROL dispensed in Nigeria is BANNED in Europe and North America from whence its imported.

Dude go talk that rubbish to those who don't know. Go and pump full tank into an SUV in Nigeria on a ₦300K salary and come tell us PPP.

A minimum wage earner in the USA & UK can reliably save $200 = £150 = ₦300,000 on a monthly basis. This is the koko of the matter.
That's an amount that less than 1% of Nigerians can earn. Carry am go heaven or hell, that's the FACT and that's why Nigerians have embarked on a mass migration out of that Zoo. My young cousin that entered UK less than a year ago is already sending money home to his mother and siblings. He should have stayed and taken his chances with Nigeria abi? Una de craze.

erico2k2:
This is ignorant, sorry to say, you seem to be amongs the small % of those who have social and economic disconnect with Nigeria.
There are people like you abroad who think the vast majority of Nigerians are dying. Yes it is though. Corruption is high, this is everywhere. I have moved my family back to Nigeria years ago.I cam to the Uk as a young man in 2000.I have friends in PH who visit the UK like no mans Biz.I also have friends on N100k a month salary in same PH.I can also tell you this free of charge. Over the past 24 years I have seen people pay off thier mortgage, then sell the house and move into Old people's home and no one visits them sometimes in a whole year. If you have lived abroad for a very long time say like 25 years and you are still under 50, you thinking will def be different, You say I am selling Nigeria to ignorant people, So you think people who do not travel are ignorant??(Bross no dey bragg just cos God butter your bread you manage enter Abroad you go call a whole people wey dey try Ignorant cos lass lass nah there U from) I think right there you just redefined SELLING lol I don't have to sell nothing as a matter of fact stay abroad for ever die there get buried there, how does that affect the price of garri o n the street?Bros the reality on ground in Nigeria as I have found is this, NO ONE CARES!

Oga, trust me....I've experienced everything I need to know about Nigeria and abroad, at least the USA where I reside. I know enough. Like I told you earlier, I know some successful people in Nigeria, I have friends in the oil & gas industry that earn $1K per day, people that own homes in Switzerland and London. I know other Nigerians like you who keep their family in Nigeria and shuttle abroad, some keep their families abroad and live in Nigeria. It's all good, just please stop implying I regard every Nigerian as poor...but I do have poor relatives and friends too, both in Nigeria and USA

What is not in doubt is this - MOST RESIDENTS OF NIGERIA ARE IN POVERTY, the UN didn't crown that country the POVERTY CAPITAL for nothing. It used to be India, now it's Nigeria, it's an impartial measure. The chances of falling into poverty are HIGH in Nigeria, ask those whose families returned in the 1970s, compare them to those Nigerians who remained behind in the UK & USA. Why won't anyone tackle that subject?

There's not up to 1% of adults in Nigeria as employees or business owners earning over ₦500K/month...which is $325. That's just FACT, I've lived there, it's not disrespect or contempt, it's just FACT. You may be among the happy high earners, good for you. Enjoy your riches amongst the desperate poor, I'm sure it makes for a nice spectacle.

So old peoples home is terrible...but old people get treated worse in Nigeria , that's if they live long enough. How many people live to be 90 in Nigeria? Such really old people get burned as witches, there's an Akwa Ibom woman living in the USA that the mother got burned alive. I have a friends whose parents in Nigeria have become HOSTAGES to their relatives who use them to extort money from their children. This whole "community care" thing in Nigeria is a Big Lie, it simply isn't as rosy as you claim.

My entire nuclear family is here in the USA. Speaking for myself, I'm done with Nigeria. You all can have it. I'm not making the error of consigning my fate to Black rulers or a majority Black nation ever again and I encourage those who can make it out to take the chance.
Nigeria has become the Poverty Capital of the World precisely because of THE KIND OF PEOPLE that inhabit it, people who take delight in watching others suffer, a country of sadists.

tshtsh:
Debt is a double edged sword (good debt/bad debt). One rule I live by is to avoid interest payments where necessary. A phone debt, credit card debt, card debt and other consumer debts are bad debts IMO and makes people rate their finances much higher than it is. If a person's debt is higher than their assets then they are in negative.

If I talk now they say I've come again. Not just avoiding interest, if you pay your credit card in full every month here in the USA, the card company actually PAYS YOU money. Yep, I wrote that. I'm talking hundreds of dollars per quarter for an average family. You don't need to believe me, just do cursory research on Google. It's not a secret, it's NORMAL. Some Nigerians are just too IGNORANT....tufiakwa.

Good Luck to Nigerians.

RodgersAkpafu:
This is a very interesting read...
Seems like we have had one or two engagements on twitter before
anyways that aside, this is my perspective sha

Just like you, I'll say that the biggest pro, despite the many ugly sides to spending your formative years in Nigeria is that you learn GRATITUDE and appreciate more, what the west has to offer.

A second generation American or Brit will see the country as his country (which is the norm and expected) and only see the issues and conplain a lot, entitlement may even creep in
but for us that came from literal "hell fire" , we appreciate more what is available in the west and work with it.

You made a reference about the rich in Nigeria and how people think they are criminals.
My fellow Nigerian, take it from me, most "rich" fellows in Nigeria are "criminals" or lemme use a more polite word, rent seekers.

The Nigerian economy is what you call a near imperfect economy, in an economic sense, that means that outlandish economic returns are very much possible, especially when you throw in cronyism and weak institutions in the mix.....
That explains how soneone can out of the blues blow, in Nigeria and say China, than in the west, because as an economy nears perfection, the returns normalise, and the returns tend closer to zero as the economy nears perfection (there is no 100% perfect economy sha, because that will mean zero returns)
My point is the supposed elite class claiming big boys in Nigeria, operating in a space where the economy nears the perfection line exposes their underbelly, so I understand WHY they will think that rich Nigerians are crooks (not all but most) and I side them on that one.

The undertone as to why I say that my descendants have minimum interaction with Nigeria is because the dominant cultural mentality in that space is antithetical to common sense and proper development...
to put it more mildly, I don't agree with it and to be frank that is the major motivation for escaping the country

I strongly believe that burning myself out and sending them to the best schools here like Winchester Eton or one fancy school in Switzerland that i used to admire will be better for them in the long run, as they will make global connections which will better position them for great things in the west , which Nigeria cannot offer let's be frank.

I see my sons as a Kwasi Kwarteng, Sajid Javid, Sunak or Chan...... or even Tidjane Thiam
that's the vision for them....
but for now they are all dreams and that's what I work towards day and night everyday.

the above answers your question about social capital. Going to Eton or Winchester gives you social capital that BIS or Turkish international cannot give.

on a final note, you made mention of the rat race and the debt accumulation that they have.
I wonder why a typical Nigerian who grew up in Nigeria have this kind of antagonist mentality towards debt.
Debt is the number one wealth building tool and has been what have pulled hundreds of millions of folks across the western world and even China out of poverty.
Our aversion to debt is the reason why Africa will remain poor and wretched, because just like a knife that is a good tool, but could kill as well, debt is the same
will you say cos knife can kill, I won't use it ?

On a final note, I can tell that you are a very intelligent person who has some balance.
I wish you the very best out there mehn.

Debt is a double edged sword (good debt/bad debt). One rule I live by is to avoid interest payments where necessary. A phone debt, credit card debt, card debt and other consumer debts are bad debts IMO and makes people rate their finances much higher than it is. If a person's debt is higher than their assets then they are in negative.
i don't believe western economies are anything near perfect but rather rigged against most people. Many of the business practices in USA and Canada will be classified as corrupt practices in most Asian countries. For instance company valuation methods used in negotiating company M&A.
At the end of it all humans will continue to do what is in their best interest. I understand your points though but I still believe emerging economies still offer some form of first mover advantages in undeveloped sectors.

tshtsh:
You even tried to respond to him. I see many like him in Canada who think Canada is heaven and continue to share data about Nigeria's poverty and all that. The society has wired them to think the rat ace life they live is paradise. There are Nigerians doing amazingly well in Nigeria and there are those struggling to get by. As a person I make decisions based on what works for me not based on some data. Some of them return to Nigeria on wheel chair in old age and live a miserable life after living the rat race life abroad

Every young Nigerian who have emigrated have to make a choice from the jump whether they are returning to Nigeria (like some of you) or burning the bridge kpata kpata and dying in the west (like me and what is common in my nuclear and extended family)

it is failure to put ones affairs in order, aligning it with their choice that makes them go back to naija miserable or even remain here miserable.

My uncles are way into their 70s and if you want them to swear for you,, just mention Nigeria to them
And no, they are not failures, they did well and their kids and grand kids are doing fine too

there are others who retire back to Africa (like those who worked with the World Bank) and are collecting their pensions in their states "enjoying life"

in the real sense of it, the two groups of people made the right choice.

P.S.
An older Nigerian told me that the easiest way to "burn the bridge" was to marry into a family from here (like he did)
Once her family becomes your family, that's the end
I don't agree or disagree, I just found such thinking interesting

Mcslize:
Nothing will happen to dorm accounts. It's just lamba. Some banks actually put an interface where you can convert to naira by yourself. Government will never do such. It's just rumour. Domiciliary accounts have been in existence for quite a long time. Banks only put an interface in their banking apps where you can convert directly to naira at a good rate on their banking app. No be today.

Don't be too sure
that's what the Lebanese thought
Now see their lives outside
Just be on the lookout
keep your eyes on the reserves.

IF the foreign reserves go below $15billion, tending towards $10 billion, the govt WILL seize foreign deposits surreptitiously.
When govts are backed in a corner, you will be surprised at what becomes possible

Who would have thought that the US will go off the gold standard ? But they did anyways now look where we are

IbeOkehie:
Why is it NOBODY wants to discuss the experience of those who moved back to Nigeria in the 1970s? Mmmmm.

I've posted enough about my own experience. I understand there are successful people there, I actually moved back in 2011 and I met such people. Success is basically an equivalent to at least a middle class Western lifestyle, the whole world aspires to that.

The truth is you must be blessed with EXTRAORDINARY drive, intellect, talent, wickedness or social capital to achieve success in Nigeria. Out in the Anglo-West that kind of outstanding endowment is not necessary.

You can keep selling that Nigerian Dream to ignorant people. We've been reading your kind on Nairaland since 2005. The threads are there, anyone can go read and draw conclusions based on reality.

Only 7% of the population in Lagos State have a working flush toilet. I repeat...if you want to experience, interact with or observe POVERTY, then Nigeria is the place to be.

Good Luck to Nigeria.

I'm just wondering
Why the "Anglo West" distinction in all your posts.

France and Germany are also very good countries , maybe language barriers but apart from that they are alright too

IbeOkehie:
80% of the 10 top earning CEOs of quoted companies in Nigeria are FOREIGNERS, many Asian, not even Europeans.

The top earning CEO of a quoted company in Nigeria is the that of Dangote Cement, he's NOT a Nigerian. His TOTAL COMPENSATION is $600K per year.

Dude, I know TWO Nigerian EMPLOYEE doctors in my small city here that earn more than that. They may not be CEOs but they're paid higher than the highest earning CEO in Nigeria...and that CEO is not even Nigerian!

A White man can kill you in Nigeria and NOTHING will happen and you know it. For YOU in particular, the only reason it will even raise dust is that you're likely carrying a Western passport.

Please stop ✋️ Enough abeg.

Good Luck to Nigerians

lmaoooo
you dey vex ooo

tshtsh:
We've met many like you in USA who don't know anything about PPP. Money is what it can do for you. Numbers means nothing. A single person earning the equivalent of $1,000 a month in Nigeria can save $600 and still live comfortably in a utility-provided estate. A person Earning $3,000 a month in a small town in Virginia may just be able to afford to rent a room in someone's house. Your $600k a year neighbor cannot match the spending power or afford the lifestyle or asset portfolio of the Dangote Cement CEO or any bank CEO in Nigeria. Its people that don't know nigeria that use salaries to rate people. Bank CEO's in some of Nigeria's banks get 0.5% or 1% of PAT as bonus annually. I hear in GTBank the CEO gets 2%. Dividends also flows to them. Allowances are multiple times their salaries.
Enjoy your USA and let those who have lived a middle income life in both USA & Nigeria do what they want to do. A Dangote Cement CEO has a huge social capital and is an industry captain with probably high level of job satisfaction. We've seen successful doctors in Potomac MD still complain about USA with plans to setup a practice back home. Aliko Dangote is the CEO of his company. That he hired a CEO to head his cement business doesn't mean the foreign CEO is his boss. Austin Avuru is the boss of Seplat. That he hired a scottish CEO does not mean the Scottish man is his boss. Until I start to see black Nigerian immigrants heading fortune 500 coys or build unicorns in USA I will continue to maintain that a glass ceiling on blacks exist. Show me a Nigerian in USA who achieved half of what Herbert Wigwe achieved in his lifetime in USA.

Of course there is a glass ceiling for all ethnicities, not just black people. This glass ceiling is because you don't fit the prototype
A white cracker head in Kentucky is already at a disadvantage compared to a black person who went to all the elite schools in America.

Obama was a black man, but fit into that "prototype" (top class education et al) and became president TWICE...
What ceiling is higher than the POTUS?
This is a very interesting discussion and I see your perspective and see SOME merit to it, but still....

I guarantee you that two to three generations fron now, you will see more descendants of Nigerians in high places, especially when WE RECOGNISE the importance of putting them through the best education and connections through and through
Kwasi Kwarteng became the first chancellor of the exchequer and he is a Cambridge/Eton Baby

Tidjane Thiam led Credit Suisse, one of the biggest banks on planet earth out of the woods and back to winning ways.
Where Thiam can enter, Wigwe plus Ovia plus Emefiele sef can only dream about it
He went to the best schools in Europe

just saying sha

RodgersAkpafu:
Of course there is a glass ceiling for all ethnicities, not just black people. This glass ceiling is because you don't fit the prototype
A white cracker head in Kentucky is already at a disadvantage compared to a black person who went to all the elite schools in America.

Obama was a black man, but fit into that "prototype" (top class education et al) and became president TWICE...
What ceiling is higher than the POTUS?
This is a very interesting discussion and I see your perspective and see SOME merit to it, but still....

I guarantee you that two to three generations fron now, you will see more descendants of Nigerians in high places, especially when WE RECOGNISE the importance of putting them through the best education and connections through and through
Kwasi Kwarteng became the first chancellor of the exchequer and he is a Cambridge/Eton Baby

Tidjane Thiam led Credit Suisse, one of the biggest banks on planet earth out of the woods and back to winning ways.
Where Thiam can enter, Wigwe plus Ovia plus Emefiele sef can only dream about it
He went to the best schools in Europe

just saying sha

Its all good. Even though I don't want to delve into British politics as I've not lived there in the last 10 years. I watched how Kwasi Kwarteng was humiliated and fired after 30 - 40 days in office. The British media humiliated him and blamed him for their economic woes the UK faced. Even his predecessor originally from Iraq managed to spend up to three months in office but it looked like they could not even tolerate him. Tidjane Thiam is an outlier who was a shining star at Mckinsey. At the end Thaim also ran into some kind of investigation at Credit Suisse which led to his early resignation. Here and there you'll find pockets of Africans in these top positions but with what I saw some blacks achieve in South Africa and Nigeria, I think a black man who is capable of making it to the top will be able to achieve more in their home ground. Just my opinion though.

tshtsh:
Its all good. Even though I don't want to delve into British politics as I've not lived there in the last 10 years. I watched how Kwasi Kwarteng was humiliated and fired after 30 - 40 days in office. The British media humiliated him and blamed him for their economic woes the UK faced. Even his predecessor originally from Iraq managed to spend up to three months in office but it looked like they could not even tolerate him. Tidjane Thiam is an outlier who was a shining star at Mckinsey. At the end Thaim also ran into some kind of investigation at Credit Suisse which led to his early resignation. Here and there you'll find pockets of Africans in these top positions but with what I saw some blacks achieve in South Africa and Nigeria, I think a black man who is capable of making it to the top will be able to achieve more in their home ground. Just my opinion though.

Kwarteng and Liz Truss got booted out because their Ill fated and timed policy drew public anger.
Nothing to do with his race. He served the shortest lived prime minister and it was only normal for her govt to sink just under three months (Kwarteng was in that boat too)
So again, has very little to do with racism.

Thiam got into issues with that South Indian fellow who was out to be a thorn in his flesh (Khan)
If Thiam was a conventional Nigerian, Khan's body would have been floating somewhere in the Danube river. He did not resign because of fraud, he resigned because of the espionage issue AFTER Khan was forced out and he moved across the street to UBS...
Small racism was inside Thiam matter I won't lie to you, but that did not stop Thiam from having a legacy in the bank and in the financial circles in Europe.
Rishi Sunak is being hammered left and right because the Conservative policy (to which Kwarteng is part of) are not working.
This country needs way more than austerity if not we will be so fvxked in 20 years.

As for your last statement
an African who is rightly placed can become a "somebody" in Africa.
That is not in doubt.
If UBA survives another two decades, Elumelu kids will be shining stars there. they have the right education and connections and blue blood to make it happen.
why join credit suisse or goldman sachs when your father is a "baba isaale " in a tier 1 African bank. Their own case is different

But if you are coming from "down under"
I always recommend jaapa and slug it out here

I really gey what you are saying sha
I hope u see my own perspective too

RodgersAkpafu:
Kwarteng and Liz Truss got booted out because their Ill fated and timed policy drew public anger.
Nothing to do with his race. He served the shortest lived prime minister and it was only normal for her govt to sink just under three months (Kwarteng was in that boat too)
So again, has very little to do with racism.

Thiam got into issues with that South Indian fellow who was out to be a thorn in his flesh (Khan)
If Thiam was a conventional Nigerian, Khan's body would have been floating somewhere in the Danube river. He did not resign because of fraud, he resigned because of the espionage issue AFTER Khan was forced out and he moved across the street to UBS...
Small racism was inside Thiam matter I won't lie to you, but that did not stop Thiam from having a legacy in the bank and in the financial circles in Europe.
Rishi Sunak is being hammered left and right because the Conservative policy (to which Kwarteng is part of) are not working.
This country needs way more than austerity if not we will be so fvxked in 20 years.

As for your last statement
an African who is rightly placed can become a "somebody" in Africa.
That is not in doubt.
If UBA survives another two decades, Elumelu kids will be shining stars there. they have the right education and connections and blue blood to make it happen.
why join credit suisse or goldman sachs when your father is a "baba isaale " in a tier 1 African bank. Their own case is different

But if you are coming from "down under"
I always recommend jaapa and slug it out here

I really gey what you are saying sha
I hope u see my own perspective too

Yes boss I get your point. At the end may we all live our dream and achieve all that we work towards

RodgersAkpafu:
Tidjane Thiam led Credit Suisse, one of the biggest banks on planet earth out of the woods and back to winning ways.
Where Thiam can enter, Wigwe plus Ovia plus Emefiele sef can only dream about it
He went to the best schools in Europe

just saying sha

Are you really sure about that? A prosperous Nigeria would see those who built thriving businesses or head similar organisations in Nigeria being accorded higher respect than successful blacks in Europe. Chinese entrepreneurs in China are accorded higher respect than those elsewhere because their companies thrive in one of the biggest economies. So, anyone who wants to partake in it has to meet them, not those elsewhere. The same applies to Indian CEOs in India vs those in say the US/UK. A good example is the music industry: DonJazzy has greater social capital than say Jidenna (if there is a much better example, someone should please mention him/her). DonJazzy can enter any music circle in the world because of his feats in Afrobeats as he is a Don (pun unintended) in his industry. Now, compare this to when we were listening to American hip-hop artists during the early-2000s. Should Nigeria's tech industry continue to blossom and become financially/venture capital independent, Shola of PayStack would command greater social capital than say Tope Awotona.

The problem is a poor sub-Saharan Africa, which is why I long to see prosperous countries on the continent.

---

The conversation has been very interesting and data-driven. Thanks to Mr IbeOkehie. Even though we disagree on a few issues. Thanks too to Mr Tshtsh. Mr Ibe, I think your animosity is largely because of the sector you attempted to break into, coupled with your ethnicity. Some ethnicities would find it hard to thrive in some sectors in Nigeria.

Gerrard59:
Are you really sure about that? A prosperous Nigeria would see those who built thriving businesses or head similar organisations in Nigeria being accorded higher respect than successful blacks in Europe. Chinese entrepreneurs in China are accorded higher respect than those elsewhere because their companies thrive in one of the biggest economies. So, anyone who wants to partake in it has to meet them, not those elsewhere. The same applies to Indian CEOs in India vs those in say the US/UK. A good example is the music industry: DonJazzy has greater social capital than say Jidenna (if there is a much better example, someone should please mention him/her). DonJazzy can enter any music circle in the world because of his feats in Afrobeats as he is a Don (pun unintended) in his industry. Now, compare this to when we were listening to American hip-hop artists during the early-2000s. Should Nigeria's tech industry continue to blossom and become financially/venture capital independent, Shola of PayStack would command greater social capital than say Tope Awotona.

The problem is a poor sub-Saharan Africa, which is why I long to see prosperous countries on the continent.

---

The conversation has been very interesting and data-driven. Thanks to Mr IbeOkehie. Even though we disagree on a few issues. Thanks too to Mr Tshtsh. Mr Ibe, I think your animosity is largely because of the sector you attempted to break into, coupled with your ethnicity. Some ethnicities would find it hard to thrive in some sectors in Nigeria.

Its a very debatable topic lol. Irrespective of all the data out there, I prefer to attain success in my home country than in any other country. Tony and Jim built a bank in the largest black nation. I don't think the achievement of an African appointee in EU dwarfs their achievement. I know an ex-IFC/WBG employee who was always lobbying to serve as an appointee in Nigeria. He was earning a tax free income in Washington with a number of benefits here and there. I asked him why he was so interested in an appointment in Nigeria. He told me you have to show that you're valuable back in your home country to be able to rise within the world bank group. Okonjo Iweala returned to the WBG in a higher capacity after serving in Nigeria as minister (2003-2007). Ali Pate resigned as CEO-designate of GAVI to take up an appointment in Tinubu's government. Chikwe became a Deputy-DG at the World health Organization after his stint at the Nigerian Centre for Disease Control. The current DG-of World Health Organization was a health minister in Ethiopia. One of the serving UN under-secretary generals was a cabinet member back in Buhari's government. The current chief economist of AFREXIM bank served at the Nigeria Bureau of Statistics (NBS). I can go on and on even though many see their home country as hell. The current exchange rate seems to mask every other thing but I wouldn't like to be in any environment that limits what I'm able to do or achieve. Nigeria has its own limitations but home advantage is underrated

RodgersAkpafu:
I'm just wondering
Why the "Anglo West" distinction in all your posts.

France and Germany are also very good countries , maybe language barriers but apart from that they are alright too

Mr Ibe would touch it on later, but from a previous conversation, he narrowed it to prosperity, rule of law, meritocracy, protection of property rights and a dominant ethnic/racial group. He defines it as "Anglo-Saxon". The Anglo-West is specifically English-speaking countries because Nigeria is an English nation. I recall proffering that East Asia - China, South Korea, Japan and Singapore - could be alternatives to the Anglo-Saxons, which he agreed to.

Over to IbeOkehie

tshtsh:
Its a very debatable topic lol. Irrespective of all the data out there, I prefer to attain success in my home country than in any other country. Tony and Jim built a bank in the largest black nation. I don't think the achievement of an African appointee in EU dwarfs their achievement

Undeniable and unbeatable. This debate reminds me of this thread where folks argued that being wealthy in a foreign land supersedes the same in one's home turf.

Gerrard59:
Mathematically, it is appropriate for the wealthy to reside in their dominant environment. The wealthiest Japanese reside in Japan, ditto Chinese in China or Singaporeans in Singapore. Expecting your wealthiest folks to reside outside their dominant environment is an aberration. The tale that they won't get the level of respect abroad as at home is even more reason they remain in their dominant environment. Wealthy Chinese who relocate from Mainland China tend to move to Singapore or Hong Kong, where the majority look like them.

The mathematical reason is also why most black billionaires come from Africa, not the US or Europe (no black billionaire in all of Europe anyway). Sub-Saharan Africa is the home of black people. So, statistically, it should produce more black billionaires.

Modified: Mo Ibrahim and Strive Masiyiwa are black billionaires with British nationality. However, both men generated their wealth from Sudan, South Africa and Zimbabwe.

I know an ex-IFC/WBG employee who was always lobbying to serve as an appointee in Nigeria. He was earning a tax free income in Washington with a number of benefits here and there. I asked him why he was so interested in an appointment in Nigeria. He told me you have to show that you're valuable back in your home country to be able to rise within the world bank group. Okonjo Iweala returned to the WBG in a higher capacity after serving in Nigeria as minister (2003-2007). Ali Pate resigned as CEO-designate of GAVI to take up an appointment in Tinubu's government. Chikwe became a Deputy-DG at the World health Organization after his stint at the Nigerian Centre for Disease Control. The current DG-of World Health Organization was a health minister in Ethiopia. One of the serving UN under-secretary generals was a cabinet member back in Buhari's government. The current chief economist of AFREXIM bank served at the Nigeria Bureau of Statistics (NBS). I can go on and on even though many see their home country as hell. The current exchange rate seems to mask every other thing

My own be say upon all these achievements and appointments, the life of the average African never change. Chai!

but I wouldn't like to be in any environment that limits what I'm able to do or achieve. Nigeria has its own limitations but home advantage is underrated

Undisputed. If e didn't dey, e didn't dey.

IbeOkehie:
80% of the 10 top earning CEOs of quoted companies in Nigeria are FOREIGNERS, many Asian, not even Europeans.

The top earning CEO of a quoted company in Nigeria is the that of Dangote Cement, he's NOT a Nigerian[b]. His TOTAL COMPENSATION is $600K per year.

Dude, I know TWO Nigerian EMPLOYEE doctors in my small city here that earn more than that. They may not be CEOs but they're paid higher than the highest earning CEO in Nigeria[/b]...and that CEO is not even Nigerian!

A White man can kill you in Nigeria and NOTHING will happen and you know it. For YOU in particular, the only reason it will even raise dust is that you're likely carrying a Western passport.

Please stop ✋️ Enough abeg.

Good Luck to Nigerians

God have mercy, make una Dey lie with fear of God abeg! Which country in this world would you see average employee doctors earning $50,000 per month!!! Are those two Nigerians specialist brain or heart surgeons!!!!

That’s a lie from the pit of hell.

Okay.

But you did not answer the last paragraph.

osothermal:
masters

Gerrard59:
Mr Ibe would touch it on later, but from a previous conversation, he narrowed it to prosperity, rule of law, meritocracy, protection of property rights and a dominant ethnic/racial group. He defines it as "Anglo-Saxon". The Anglo-West is specifically English-speaking countries because Nigeria is an English nation. I recall proffering that East Asia - China, South Korea, Japan and Singapore - could be alternatives to the Anglo-Saxons, which he agreed to.

Over to IbeOkehie

Germany and France are also countries governed by rule of law.
Heck...
I even know a few buddies who are based in The Netherlands and are doing really well, that's why I asked

IbeOkehie:
Nonsense. Money is money and even on PPP or the Economist Big Mac Index, Nigeria is one of the most expensive places to live in the world. If indeed you've considered the subject logically, you know this. That's the data.

But I've also done my own personal measure. In 2010 I travelled to 4 countries on a 6 month tour before moving to Nigeria. I lived in FAMILY HOMES with real people, not in hotels...developed AND developing countries. I found that Nigeria was the most expensive for SIMILAR QUALITY of goods and services. It's undeniable. Even the PETROL dispensed in Nigeria is BANNED in Europe and North America from whence its imported.

Dude go talk that rubbish to those who don't know. Go and pump full tank into an SUV in Nigeria on a ₦300K salary and come tell us PPP.

A minimum wage earner in the USA & UK can reliably save $200 = £150 = ₦300,000 on a monthly basis. This is the koko of the matter.
That's an amount that less than 1% of Nigerians can earn. Carry am go heaven or hell, that's the FACT and that's why Nigerians have embarked on a mass migration out of that Zoo. My young cousin that entered UK less than a year ago is already sending money home to his mother and siblings. He should have stayed and taken his chances with Nigeria abi? Una de craze.



Oga, trust me....I've experienced everything I need to know about Nigeria and abroad, at least the USA where I reside. I know enough. Like I told you earlier, I know some successful people in Nigeria, I have friends in the oil & gas industry that earn $1K per day, people that own homes in Switzerland and London. I know other Nigerians like you who keep their family in Nigeria and shuttle abroad, some keep their families abroad and live in Nigeria. It's all good, just please stop implying I regard every Nigerian as poor...but I do have poor relatives and friends too, both in Nigeria and USA

What is not in doubt is this - MOST RESIDENTS OF NIGERIA ARE IN POVERTY, the UN didn't crown that country the POVERTY CAPITAL for nothing. It used to be India, now it's Nigeria, it's an impartial measure. The chances of falling into poverty are HIGH in Nigeria, ask those whose families returned in the 1970s, compare them to those Nigerians who remained behind in the UK & USA. Why won't anyone tackle that subject?

There's not up to 1% of adults in Nigeria as employees or business owners earning over ₦500K/month...which is $650. That's just FACT, I've lived there, it's not disrespect or contempt, it's just FACT. You may be among the happy high earners, good for you. Enjoy your riches amongst the desperate poor, I'm sure it makes for a nice spectacle.

So old peoples home is terrible...but old people get treated worse in Nigeria , that's if they live long enough. How many people live to be 90 in Nigeria? Such really old people get burned as witches, there's an Akwa Ibom woman living in the USA that the mother got burned alive. I have a friends whose parents in Nigeria have become HOSTAGES to their relatives who use them to extort money from their children. This whole "community care" thing in Nigeria is a Big Lie, it simply isn't as rosy as you claim.

My entire nuclear family is here in the USA. Speaking for myself, I'm done with Nigeria. You all can have it. I'm not making the error of consigning my fate to Black rulers or a majority Black nation ever again and I encourage those who can make it out to take the chance.
Nigeria has become the Poverty Capital of the World precisely because of THE KIND OF PEOPLE that inhabit it, people who take delight in watching others suffer, a country of sadists.



If I talk now they say I've come again. Not just avoiding interest, if you pay your credit card in full every month here in the USA, the card company actually PAYS YOU money. Yep, I wrote that. I'm talking hundreds of dollars per quarter for an average family. You don't need to believe me, just do cursory research on Google. It's not a secret, it's NORMAL. Some Nigerians are just too IGNORANT....tufiakwa.

Good Luck to Nigerians.

This guy you talk from both side of ur moith.U 4get the internet dnt 4get.I ja e go e fru ur post from 2022.U just jump from.table to chair and make u realistic conclusions and guesses.
Like I said B4 if you like write full text book here.the facts remains Dsame no one cares.

NaijaVietnamese:
God have mercy, make una Dey lie with fear of God abeg! Which country in this world would you see average employee doctors earning $50,000 per month!!! Are those two Nigerians specialist brain or heart surgeons!!!!

That’s a lie from the pit of hell.

U know those people we just start nah so dem dey talk.everybody ignorant nah them sabi pass.

Love800:
Okay.

But you did not answer the last paragraph.

Oh actually I'm with my partner who is working full time hence we're okay. As a student working partime you'll be okay if you don't have school fees to pay