₦airaland Forum

Lessonteacher:
first, you have to know i didn't say "all atheists"; that said, judging by the way you seemed not to understand my position there , i can say you r a baby atheist.
i have seen existence through the eye of people like 'Charles Darwin', i know how it feels being a real atheist and i know you have to be out of your ordinary mind for you to doubt the existence of God,

Ahh, OK it's not the atheists want to sin trope, it's the atheists are crazy trope. LoLz.

My bad, you didn't say all atheists you said almost all atheists. LMAO.

So the ones that are not included in your statement what explains their own position since they aren't on psychedelics?

Image123:
Notice that i did not say Christianity, i said the Bible. Man is created to worship, each human being has a soul and a spirit (something other animals don't have, though that's probably another discussion entirely) and so will generally crave for something/someone to worship. That's the practice of religion. Just like the human body naturally has characteristics that will continue to be there, the human spirit also has the tendency to worship and commune with some 'higher' power.
That being sorted, God is not the ONLY spirit. The Bible teaches that there are principalities and POWERS. There are powerful books inspired by POWERS, i am not denying that. What i have said and maintain is that the Bible is no ordinary book, but divinely inspired by God. Books have influence, even the media has some influence. But there is NO book that has the kind of influence that the Bible has continued to have. Let me list some to be specific.
- Transformation of sinners. If you have been in an evangelistic crusade or outreach, you'd probably understand better. i'm not talking about mental gymnastics or even solid, clear, or even motivational teaching. i mean just mere reading of the Bible, and people are grown men and women are crying, and confessing crazy stuff and dropping all kinds or horrid lifestyles for better ones. A total turn around. i don't know any other book that does that and has been doing that for thousands of years.
- Reported healing. You don't believe in healing and miracle that's why i use the word reported. Apart from the Bible and MAYBE you may mention the Koran. i am certain that you cannot mention up to 10 other books of the billions of books written that people claim to read and it gives them physical healing. Let alone the other forms of healing.
- Influence on politics, prediction and unmatgched insight into the present, past and future.

i'll stop on these, i'm not sure i want to type long epistles for now.

I mentioned those religions because they also have their own scriptures so it's just a reference to their own sustained existence which is backed by their own belief and inspiration from their own scriptures. You cannot claim divine inspiration for yours and use its continuous existence as an evidence of its divine origin then deny same for others, that is just an arbitrary line you drew up.

Maybe you are not familiar with the Buddhist scripture and how people claim to receive healing from it's practice and I have no doubt you will find similar claims from the Hindus as well as other religious scripture backed practices. These are all human experiences as far as we can tell since that is the common denominator among them. If you want to prove divine origin then inspiration and length of existence is NOT an indicator.

LordReed:
I mentioned those religions because they also have their own scriptures so it's just a reference to their own sustained existence which is backed by their own belief and inspiration from their own scriptures. You cannot claim divine inspiration for yours and use its continuous existence as an evidence of its divine origin then deny same for others, that is just an arbitrary line you drew up.

Maybe you are not familiar with the Buddhist scripture and how people claim to receive healing from it's practice and I have no doubt you will find similar claims from the Hindus as well as other religious scripture backed practices. These are all human experiences as far as we can tell since that is the common denominator among them. If you want to prove divine origin then inspiration and length of existence is NOT an indicator.

Those religions(including Christianity) didn't increase or continue because of their books/scriptures. They continued because humans are naturally religious, they'll take the religion that they find. Humans will always find something or someone to worship, these religions supply that demand. What is the name of the Hindu or Buddhist scriptures, it's largely unheard of or localized.
One of the reasons why the Bible is a great book is its relevance for length of existence. How many books are as old as the Bible and still relevant? They've all lost their relevance. Like i hinted, the Bible is not the only inspired book. It's different because it is inspired by God. i have not denied inspiration of other books by some other spirits. There are principalities and powers and the Bible teaches that, it's not new. There's no book that surpasses the Bible in influence, time span, present past and future insight, and change of life. The Bible changes lives, not just instruct.

Image123:
Those religions(including Christianity) didn't increase or continue because of their books/scriptures. They continued because humans are naturally religious, they'll take the religion that they find. Humans will always find something or someone to worship, these religions supply that demand. What is the name of the Hindu or Buddhist scriptures, it's largely unheard of or localized.
One of the reasons why the Bible is a great book is its relevance for length of existence. How many books are as old as the Bible and still relevant? They've all lost their relevance. Like i hinted, the Bible is not the only inspired book. It's different because it is inspired by God. i have not denied inspiration of other books by some other spirits. There are principalities and powers and the Bible teaches that, it's not new. There's no book that surpasses the Bible in influence, time span, present past and future insight, and change of life. The Bible changes lives, not just instruct.

The Hindu and Buddhist scriptures are older than the Bible and are still very relevant to those who find them inspirational. In fact, in the West the Buddhist scriptures seem to be gaining more ground than the Bible. These are all human experiences, there is nothing divine about it. The Quran has just as much influence globally as the Bible does so why should we believe the Bible is divinely inspired and the Quran or the Buddhist scriptures are not? No reason at all.

LordReed:
The Hindu and Buddhist scriptures are older than the Bible and are still very relevant to those who find it inspirational. In fact in the West the Buddhist scriptures seem to be gaining more ground than the Bible. These are all human experiences, there is nothing divine about it. The Quran has just as much influence globally as the Bible does so why should we believe the Bible is divinely inspired and the Quran or the Buddhist scriptures are not? No reason at all.

Talking about numbers and religion,
There are about 2.4 billion christians in the world (Personally and BTW, i don't believe that a huge % of them are true Bible christians).
There are about 21.9 billion muslims in the world.
There are about 1.2 billion hindus in the world.
There are about 535 million buddhists in the world.

All four religions are from Asia as you know. Now to define their influence and relevance to the world,
99% of Buddhists are found in the Asia -Pacific region. Most of the 1 % outside Asia are still migrants from Asia.
It's also a staggering less than 1% figure for Hindu population outside Asia. Again, most of these less than 1% are migrants from Asia.
You cannot compare these to the muslim and christian numbers and percentages. That is influence and relevance.
But like i have said many times, i am not talking about religion. i am talking about the Bible.
While the Buddhist and Hindu books may be older than the Bible, nobody knows them, or let's say, an insignificant number of people know them outside the Asia-Pacific. They lack global influence and relevance. They cannot compete on level ground. If you remove tradition, restriction and force (which ALL the other books enjoy), most of them will further lose their influence and relevance. They can't even survive half of what the Bible has gone through if you know history well.
Once again, i have not said that the Quran or the Buddhist scriptures are not inspired. The Bible is inspired by God, they are the ones that know the spirit that inspired their own books. The only spirit that i know is God and my own spirit. i have not said that other spirits do not exist, even the Bible affirms that they do.

StillDtruth:
Cllearly, the youtube owner organized it that way.

I know a youtuber, she brought an atheist against me, and he was decimated in 15 minutes and till today since 2 years back she has never brought me into her channel.

Many who call themselves christians are just church goers and closet atheists, and i know that is who the youtuber will bring.

Wait. Is it the 'decimation' you have been displaying here? Lol. You? DTruthSpeaker? Decimate an adult human? Lollest
This Friday is turning out to be the funniest I have had

StillDtruth:
The youtube owner can pick anyone. He can find a most intelligent atheist and pair him against a very simple sunday sunday church goer who goes there out of duty rather than conviction.

As i said, i met a youtuber, who clearly was a closet atheist but because she did not know my stand and because atheism was reigning,she thought i was in support and wanted me in her channel until i tore at some of her beliefs as proclaimed by atheist.

Then she brought one she thought better than her, and she saw him fall.

Till today, she hasn't called me, neither did she produce that debate and the most interesting .and comical part is that never again has she raised any topic about God and atheism in my presence again.

Please name the Youtube channel and the link if possible.
Not only are you an idiotic liar, you are a foolish one

Peledonomy:
He also asked what he could have done differently. It now became an issue of "did I not have enough faith? Was I not worthy of God revealing himself to me?"

Well let me state this here now that it's not too late, I don't claim to have the answers, but what I hope to do is to ask the atheist who shares in this sentiment a simple question.

If there is a God and you want to feel him or experience him, is it not proper you first ask how he wants to be known, or felt?

I mean it's just normal to think that if there is a God who is high and mighty, then he must have his terms and conditions. Do you just go around looking for him and expecting he shows up anywhere anyhow to prove himself to you? That you are who?


Just a question o.

He clearly stated in his book that you should ask and he given. He also said he reveals himself to anyone who wants

StillDtruth:
Catholic church teaches the bible in a most pervertous way and unfortunately for mozt church folks, many doctrines they have all come from the catholic church, so serious pervertion are the basis of people's beliefs.

And since most people do not read.the bible for themselves, they are already bye bye.

And based on these stupid and sometimes evil doctrines, many are misled and thought to think stupidly. (as if we do not already think stupidly sometimes)

So idiots who become atheist think that God is like Aladin's genie.

It may amaze you that most atheists here were ex-pentecostals like me. So shut that your ignorant latrine

Peledonomy:
Here is what I like to ask all those who don't believe in God.

No let me rephrase the question.

Here is what I'll like to ask those who don't believe the Bible.

I know the Bible is not a scientific book.
I know that you have seen some contradictions in the Bible.
I know that the resurrection of Jesus is still a debate.

But wait.

Why would a man called Saul of Tarsus, aka Paul the apostle, die for a lie?

Take note. Paul never met Jesus in his life time.

The historicity of Jesus may be in doubt, but Paul is well known through out history. I'm not just talking about the Bible.

Why would that man called Paul, give up his life and comfort for a story/myth/legend?

It's just a question.

Lets assume Paul of Tarsus really existed. Many folks have died for lies, hope you know. Example is suicide bombers. They are so such that Allah would bless them that they killed themselves violently, that's how sure they are. Many Christians sef no go die like suicide bombers even the ones wey love sure of Christianity. They gave up their lives for myths

Everyday247:
Na wa oh.
Person ask you for link and this is how you respond.
The funny part is that after this you aggressive response you still get mind to call yourself a "CIVIL HUMAN".
Isoright sha, make I go back to playing my game. So pretend you never saw me.

The guy turned aggressive instantly. Lol

hopefulLandlord:
If the number of people willing to die indicates the truth of a religious claim, then Jim Jones is god.

Exactly. Dude had folks ready to die for him

Image123:
Jesus Christ pretty much spoke for Himself. God also speaks to people today in different ways. God's Word does not need constant revision and interpretation, it's usually PEOPLE that need the revision and interpretation. Any version of the Word will give you about the same power.

Obviously this is a lie. Many versions of the bible contradict themselves. Some even omit, some add stuff. I'm sure you know all these. Question u need to ask yourself is this. Why do you people revise and edit your word of god?

Image123:
Suicide bombers die because they are brainwashed/deceived or for money. Paul did not.

How do you know he wasn't?

Image123:
Every language when translated in big chunks will lose some of its nuance. People don't need to constantly revise and interpret the Bible, they choose to. It has not exactly proven to be better.
You put the fault on God and His Word, i put it on people. That changes what you said.

So god stood back and watched while folks misinterpreted his word which led to deception. And he does nothing about it? And whats more, he knew this would happen but chose not to do anything about it?

Image123:
Talking about numbers and religion,
There are about 2.4 billion christians in the world (Personally and BTW, i don't believe that a huge % of them are true Bible christians).
There are about 21.9 billion muslims in the world.
There are about 1.2 billion hindus in the world.
There are about 535 million buddhists in the world.

All four religions are from Asia as you know. Now to define their influence and relevance to the world,
99% of Buddhists are found in the Asia -Pacific region. Most of the 1 % outside Asia are still migrants from Asia.
It's also a staggering less than 1% figure for Hindu population outside Asia. Again, most of these less than 1% are migrants from Asia.
You cannot compare these to the muslim and christian numbers and percentages. That is influence and relevance.
But like i have said many times, i am not talking about religion. i am talking about the Bible.
While the Buddhist and Hindu books may be older than the Bible, nobody knows them, or let's say, an insignificant number of people know them outside the Asia-Pacific. They lack global influence and relevance. They cannot compete on level ground. If you remove tradition, restriction and force (which ALL the other books enjoy), most of them will further lose their influence and relevance. They can't even survive half of what the Bible has gone through if you know history well.
Once again, i have not said that the Quran or the Buddhist scriptures are not inspired. The Bible is inspired by God, they are the ones that know the spirit that inspired their own books. The only spirit that i know is God and my own spirit. i have not said that other spirits do not exist, even the Bible affirms that they do.

Christianity and Islam achieved achieved its influence and relevance in the world through death and destruction: jihads and crusades ( forceful conversions).

Not so ,for Buddhism and Hinduism . Both respect the sanctity of the human life and never try to force their religion on others.

StillDtruth:
Is that how low you have fallen just to say sonething?

Do we not see how these muslims are brainwashed, compared to Paul who we can see asks questions people do not even consider asking just to be sure of his actions and beliefs?

How do you know those suicide bombers didn’t ask questions and were satisfied with the answers?
Besides its the same way Christian terrorists were brain washed

Image123:
i will agree to the extent that the constant revision and interpretation of the Bible is all human effort. The Bible itself is not all human effort but inspired and consistently life changing.

Explain the bolded

Image123:
It is quite the insult considering that Paul is like the version of Mo in christianity. Like after God, it's Paul (for the Gentiles), or let's safely add Peter, James, John and the other apostles. We both know Mo is incomparable to mere suicide bombers in that religion. Mo will never commit suicide, none of the leaders of the religion will attempt such, none of the rich or well established would. That option is usually for the poor and ill-informed amongst them. Just one day ago, i read that Gwoza suicide bombers are given as low as N20.
On the other hand, Paul is never willing to do something that other christians should not follow. The principle is clearly, "follow me as I follow Christ." He's not deceived into what he is doing. In fact, most of his many epistles explain what he is doing and why other believers should do same. Paul, brainwashed by who? Paul, whose experiences are clearly documented across the New Testament. Who experienced a life-transforming change from a murderer and persecutor to a saint. Paul, who healed sicknesses and raised the dead. Paul's life, as we read it, was not dem say. Aprons from him were healing the sick. Paul who had been to heaven in a vision is who you are comparing to suicide bombers that did not even read their book not to talk of revelation. Wake Paul up now now, he will explain to you how he met Jesus on the way to Damascus. The comparison is a complete fail abeg. Try maybe some brainwashed church-goers, not apostle Paul.

There is no extrabiblical evidence Paul of Tarsus existed. You can check yourself. So rest

Image123:
The Bible is not mere human inspiration but divine inspiration. Reason why it remains more relevant than the most inspired of human books and doings. Human inspiration or genius moments fail and wane, the Bible remains with same potency for thousands of years.

The bible is the most read book simply cos the world powers/Western countries have more christians. Right now, christianity is in decline and so is the number reading the bible

Image123:
Suicide bombers are not martyrs, they kill themselves with others for reward. Many of them don't even have an idea of what they are doing or a deep understanding of what they believe. Reason why their top leaders would never do such. Again, who offered money to Paul, or brainwashed Paul or indoctrinated Paul? i guess you'd assume the same stance for Jesus Christ and all true Christians because we all have the same understanding. To live us Christ and to die is gain.

Obviously you dont know the definition of a martyr. Please do well to check it up

Image123:
Notice that i did not say Christianity, i said the Bible. Man is created to worship, each human being has a soul and a spirit (something other animals don't have, though that's probably another discussion entirely) and so will generally crave for something/someone to worship. That's the practice of religion. Just like the human body naturally has characteristics that will continue to be there, the human spirit also has the tendency to worship and commune with some 'higher' power.
That being sorted, God is not the ONLY spirit. The Bible teaches that there are principalities and POWERS. There are powerful books inspired by POWERS, i am not denying that. What i have said and maintain is that the Bible is no ordinary book, but divinely inspired by God. Books have influence, even the media has some influence. But there is NO book that has the kind of influence that the Bible has continued to have. Let me list some to be specific.
- Transformation of sinners. If you have been in an evangelistic crusade or outreach, you'd probably understand better. i'm not talking about mental gymnastics or even solid, clear, or even motivational teaching. i mean just mere reading of the Bible, and people are grown men and women are crying, and confessing crazy stuff and dropping all kinds or horrid lifestyles for better ones. A total turn around. i don't know any other book that does that and has been doing that for thousands of years.
- Reported healing. You don't believe in healing and miracle that's why i use the word reported. Apart from the Bible and MAYBE you may mention the Koran. i am certain that you cannot mention up to 10 other books of the billions of books written that people claim to read and it gives them physical healing. Let alone the other forms of healing.
- Influence on politics, prediction and unmatgched insight into the present, past and future.

i'll stop on these, i'm not sure i want to type long epistles for now.

Do you have evidence humans have spirit?
So if humans are created to worship a god, which god are the millions of atheists worshipping?

Lessonteacher:
first, you have to know i didn't say "all atheists"; that said, judging by the way you seemed not to understand my position there , i can say you r a baby atheist.
i have seen existence through the eye of people like 'Charles Darwin', i know how it feels being a real atheist and i know you have to be out of your ordinary mind for you to doubt the existence of God,

What is the evidence of your god

jaephoenix:
What is the evidence of your god

where did you come from or you created yourself?

Image123:
Talking about numbers and religion,
There are about 2.4 billion christians in the world (Personally and BTW, i don't believe that a huge % of them are true Bible christians).
There are about 21.9 billion muslims in the world.
There are about 1.2 billion hindus in the world.
There are about 535 million buddhists in the world.

All four religions are from Asia as you know. Now to define their influence and relevance to the world,
99% of Buddhists are found in the Asia -Pacific region. Most of the 1 % outside Asia are still migrants from Asia.
It's also a staggering less than 1% figure for Hindu population outside Asia. Again, most of these less than 1% are migrants from Asia.
You cannot compare these to the muslim and christian numbers and percentages. That is influence and relevance.
But like i have said many times, i am not talking about religion. i am talking about the Bible.
While the Buddhist and Hindu books may be older than the Bible, nobody knows them, or let's say, an insignificant number of people know them outside the Asia-Pacific. They lack global influence and relevance. They cannot compete on level ground. If you remove tradition, restriction and force (which ALL the other books enjoy), most of them will further lose their influence and relevance. They can't even survive half of what the Bible has gone through if you know history well.
Once again, i have not said that the Quran or the Buddhist scriptures are not inspired. The Bible is inspired by God, they are the ones that know the spirit that inspired their own books. The only spirit that i know is God and my own spirit. i have not said that other spirits do not exist, even the Bible affirms that they do.

Your ignorance is palpable. Maybe u need to check the growing Hindu population in Nigeria/Africa. Also Asia has more Buddhists/Muslims than Christians. So using your global penetration as a measure of how christianity is dominant falls glat

Lessonteacher:
where did you come from or you created yourself?

My parents

jaephoenix:
Wait. Is it the 'decimation' you have been displaying here? Lol. You? DTruthSpeaker? Decimate an adult human? Lollest
This Friday is turning out to be the funniest I have had

Its like with every passing day you get more stupid than the previous day upto the point of now deluding yourself that people are blind and live on delusions like you do. And you are so stupid to the extend that you do not know that you have become the slowpoke of nairaland.

jaephoenix:
Do you have evidence humans have spirit?
So if humans are created to worship a god, which god are the millions of atheists worshipping?

This thread already shows you are well aware of the existence of spirit.
https://www.nairaland.com/8061156/atheist-says-spirit-nothing-because#129431311

jaephoenix:
It may amaze you that most atheists here were ex-pentecostals like me. So shut that your ignorant latrine

Do we not know that you atheists are a liars especially you? Not withstanding the mere fact that you are the only stupid enough to come and deny it, already shows how stupid you are!

jaephoenix:
Lets assume Paul of Tarsus really existed. Many folks have died for lies, hope you know. Example is suicide bombers. They are so such that Allah would bless them that they killed themselves violently, that's how sure they are. Many Christians sef no go die like suicide bombers even the ones wey love sure of Christianity. They gave up their lives for myths

See how stupid you are that you did not get that it is not about Paul's death but about convincing a die hard antichristian who cannot be convinced unless a better and faultless case is made?

See simple thing like this you could not understand is it now the bible you would understand? Just ccontinue playing tetris that one is easy for you.

Image123:
Talking about numbers and religion,
There are about 2.4 billion christians in the world (Personally and BTW, i don't believe that a huge % of them are true Bible christians).
There are about 21.9 billion muslims in the world.
There are about 1.2 billion hindus in the world.
There are about 535 million buddhists in the world.

All four religions are from Asia as you know. Now to define their influence and relevance to the world,
99% of Buddhists are found in the Asia -Pacific region. Most of the 1 % outside Asia are still migrants from Asia.
It's also a staggering less than 1% figure for Hindu population outside Asia. Again, most of these less than 1% are migrants from Asia.
You cannot compare these to the muslim and christian numbers and percentages. That is influence and relevance.
But like i have said many times, i am not talking about religion. i am talking about the Bible.
While the Buddhist and Hindu books may be older than the Bible, nobody knows them, or let's say, an insignificant number of people know them outside the Asia-Pacific. They lack global influence and relevance. They cannot compete on level ground. If you remove tradition, restriction and force (which ALL the other books enjoy), most of them will further lose their influence and relevance. They can't even survive half of what the Bible has gone through if you know history well.
Once again, i have not said that the Quran or the Buddhist scriptures are not inspired. The Bible is inspired by God, they are the ones that know the spirit that inspired their own books. The only spirit that i know is God and my own spirit. i have not said that other spirits do not exist, even the Bible affirms that they do.

You are kidding if you think the Buddhist influence is limited because most Buddhists are in Asia. It will interest you to know that a lot of the top Fortune 500 CEOs and other C Suite Executives have some Zen Buddhist influence in their life. So to think because the people around you have no clue about Buddhist scripture doesn't mean it is limited to one part of the world.

Another thing to note is neither Buddhism nor Hinduism is evangelical nor do they seek world conquest in contrast to Islam and Christianity.

BTW the Muslim population is projected to exceed that of Christians in the coming decades, is that a sign of divine origin? Of course you'll say no, again because your choosing the wide spread nature of Christianity is just a confirmation bias you are indulging in because if the Christian population is no longer the dominant one you'll claim some other thing and discard this population/spread as a point.

Dtruthspeaker:
Its like with every passing day you get more stupid than the previous day upto the point of now deluding yourself that people are blind and live on delusions like you do. And you are so stupid to the extend that you do not know that you have become the slowpoke of nairaland.

Hahahahaha
U can't even do a coherent debate here on nairaland, never mind debate with an outsider.
Oga show us link to that debate or shut that latrine