₦airaland Forum

Kingsempires:
ok explain

The patriarchs are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob..

According to what is written on page 319, they believed the Patriarchs were also pre-existing even before the Messiah. Yet they did not believed in their divinity.

What does that tell you about their belief of the Messiah?

Qasim6:
The patriarchs are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob..

According to what is written on page 319, they believed the Patriarchs were also pre-existing even before the Messiah. Yet they did not believed in their divinity.

What does that tell you about their belief of the Messiah?

the full explanation of that page 319 is in the book of Enoch if you have red the book of enoch you will understand the page 319 very well

Qasim6:
Let's assume they truly believed the Messiah was pre-existing, they also believed the patriarchs were pre-existing. Did they believe the patriarchs were divine?

Bring evidence the mainstream ancient Jews believed the partriach were pre existent. Stop making claims up. Bring evidence.
I brought evidence they believed the Messiah is not only persistent, but has the power of resurrection on the last day, will execute judgement on righteous and sinners on the last day n will rule both gentiles and Jews.
Above is divine attributes my friend, whether U accept or not isn't my problem but yours.

Qasim6:
Or do you believe the patriarchs were pre-existing?
This is the reason why I keep saying you can't rely solely on what they believed prior to the coming of Christ, the Messiah already came. We have seen the prophecy he fulfilled 💯.

This is what U should say and stop wasting my time. Just say ancient Judaism is corrupt just like the imaginary injil and Torah.
But don't come here n hope on ancient Judaism to validate your faith because they will disappoint U.
Ancient Judaism validate Christianity, it's the modern day rabinnical Jews that are now misinterpreting their scriptures to invalidate Jesus Christ.
If U want independent non bias exegesis of the Tanakh- go to 2nd temple Judaism texts and it will lead U straight to Christianity.
Remember the first Christians were Jews, they became Christians even when the NT wasn't even in existence. The only thing thing they had was oral gospel and Paul's letters.
If not for destruction of the Jerusalem in 70AD, modern day Judaism would have been the face and extension UNITARIAN CHRISTIANITY.

Qasim6:
He did not fulfill Isaiah 53 by not having offspring (suffering servant of Isaiah 53 is Prophet Jeremiah) nor the prophecy of son of man of the book of Daniel.

I don't have a problem if U as a Muslim say those passages isn't about Jesus, we can have a debate on that.
But what U can't deny is that those verses talk about a redemption messiah and a Messiah with divine attributes . To do so is to deny evidence.
So all U need to do is sit down and wait for that Messiah who will come and die for your sins and the Messiah who is pre existence, will judge the nation and reassurect the dead. This is definitely not Muhammed.

Qasim6:
His kingdom did not defeat the 4th empire from Babylon (Romans). Prophet Muhammad is the son of man of the book of Daniel, Islamic empire displaced the Romans.

I told U there is no Roman empire in that passage. The 4th beasts is Seleucid greek empire and not Roman empire.
No bible scholar believed the 4th beast is Rome, none.
No Roman emperor desecrated the holy temple, the Jews rebelled against the Roman empire twice and were thoroughly beaten blue black.
There's a reason all bible scholars believed the book of daniel was written around 175 BC. It's because of this 4th beast and it's correlation with Anthiochus the Seleucid king.

Qasim6:
I don't know how you guys treat prophecies. Prophecy is not something you just do wuru-wuru to the answer or else everyone will be able to fulfill every prophecy.

I'm happy U are saying this because when we show U there's no Muhammed in the bible, U won't start wuruwuru to the answer to insist a certain passage is about Muhammed.

Qasim6:
We will just be hearing Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophecies from Christians, under small scrutiny everything will be falling apart like a house of cards.


And the fact that Christianity have redefine words like holy spirit, Messiah, Son of man, Son of God, Father (when referring to God) to suit their idolatry and blasphemous doctrines does not mean every other Abrahamic faith should swallow their definitions. That is another thing you need to let sink in.

All above Christina definition fits perfectly with it's definition in 2nd temple Judaism.
Na Muslims dey on their own.
For example Muslims will say holy spirit is angel gabriel. Where they got that from, I don't know.
Qur'an never said so, no Jew past or present believed holy spirit is angel gabriel, even the Shia sect don't believe holy spirit is angel gabriel.
So how did sunni Islam come to that conclusion.

Another example.
Allah said no one should call him Father, that he's not a Father anybody.
Ok let's agree Christians corrupted the word thus let's leave New testament out of it.
Let's go to old testament...
God called himself Father in exodus and Deuteronomy, David called him father in Psalms and proverbs. Jeremiah called him father, Isaiah called him father multiple times, Hosea and Malachi also called him father.
Can they all be lying ?

My friend, press the brake and do some retrospection.
Remove that bias lens and look at your book objectively, Qur'an can't stand any independent scrutiny, the theology of Islam cannot be validated with any other previous abrahamic religion. Too many flaws.
As I said earlier, if Christianity is tested against ancient Judaism esp the 2nd temple era, what U will see is a spectrum of continuity in both religions. That's why the first Christians were Jews.

We can't apply above to islam at all, the religion and it's theology becomes problematic. That proves he brought a different religion.

FYI, the early Christians use to meet and preach in the Jerusalem temple, U can't be allowed to preach blasphemy in the temple.
James the just was killed in the temple by jealous Pharisee, the people rebelled against his killing and the high priest who ordered his assassination was punished by Rome.
That's to show how the people of Jerusalem regard the brother of Jesus when he was head of the church!!

Islam as established by Muhammed is fake and a man made religion. That's the truth. He brought a new and different religion.
Take Muhammed out of Islam, then maybe we can have a discussion.

Finally I will advise U to study the Targum, Mishnah and Talmud written btw post exilic period and up to around 300AD when the knowledge and beliefs of Christianity was relatively unknown to the rabinnical Jews. What U will find will surprise U...trust me. Their writings will be pointing U towards Christianity.

Oga sirteel you get knowledge about religion well "GOD BLESS YOU" I will go and study so ancient text you called here

SIRTee15:
Bring evidence the mainstream ancient Jews believed the partriach were pre existent. Stop making claims up. Bring evidence.
I brought evidence they believed the Messiah is not only persistent, but has the power of resurrection on the last day, will execute judgement on righteous and sinners on the last day n will rule both gentiles and Jews.
Above is divine attributes my friend, whether U accept or not isn't my problem but yours.

Your delusion knows no bound

From the "hardcore irrefutable evidence" you brought, It is clearly written they believed the Patriarchs were pre-existing even before Christ, but you turn a blind eye to that.

SIRTee15:
But don't come here n hope on ancient Judaism to validate your faith because they will disappoint U.
Ancient Judaism validate Christianity, it's the modern day rabinnical Jews that are now misinterpreting their scriptures to invalidate Jesus Christ.
If U want independent non bias exegesis of the Tanakh- go to 2nd temple Judaism texts and it will lead U straight to Christianity.

Stop deceiving yourself, ancient Judaism does not validate your semi-pagan religion. You have nothing to stand on.

SIRTee15:
Remember the first Christians were Jews, they became Christians even when the NT wasn't even in existence. The only thing thing they had was oral gospel and Paul's letters.
If not for destruction of the Jerusalem in 70AD, modern day Judaism would have been the face and extension UNITARIAN CHRISTIANITY.

Guy, even some of them, if not all of them like the Ebionites saw Paul as heretic/apostate of the law and guess what? they read another gospel too written by Matthew in Hebrew and not the forged one we have now.

And James that was the leader of the Jerusalem messianic Jews was against Paul teachings. So why would they read Paul writings?

SIRTee15:
I don't have a problem if U as a Muslim say those passages isn't about Jesus, we can have a debate on that.
But what U can't deny is that those verses talk about a redemption messiah and a Messiah with divine attributes . To do so is to deny evidence.
So all U need to do is sit down and wait for that Messiah who will come and die for your sins and the Messiah who is pre existence, will judge the nation and reassurect the dead. This is definitely not Muhammed.

There is nothing divine about Isaiah 53. U r just seeing something that is not there. The striking resemblance in Isaiah 53 and life of Jeremiah is just too much to be discarded.

SIRTee15:
I told U there is no Roman empire in that passage. The 4th beasts is Seleucid greek empire and not Roman empire.
No bible scholar believed the 4th beast is Rome, none.
No Roman emperor desecrated the holy temple, the Jews rebelled against the Roman empire twice and were thoroughly beaten blue black.
There's a reason all bible scholars believed the book of daniel was written around 175 BC. It's because of this 4th beast and it's correlation with Anthiochus the Seleucid king.

This is the order of the kingdoms

Babylon - Persia - Greece - Rome.

If anyone give you any other order, they just want to take you for a fool, and it is definitely someone that has seen that it's Islam that fulfilled the kingdom of God prophecy and just trying to play smart. Media and Persia are the same thing.

Emperor Hadrian desecrated the temple mount. Expelled the Jews and Messianic Jews from Jerusalem and placed the statue of Zeus on the temple mount. The ban on Jews was maintained until the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem in 636.


It is not a coincidence that the prophecies about that individual that God is going to send to the gentiles are always giving Prophet Muhammad vibes.

Isaiah 42: why would God be referencing villages of kedar. Kedar that is ancestor of Prophet Muhammad.

Deuteronomy 18:18: a prophet like Moses from among the brethren of the Israelites. and deut 34:10 went on to tell us "Never again did there arise in Israel a prophet like Moses—whom lord singled out, face to face."
So who is this prophet like Moses that is not Israelite.

Son of man of the book of Daniel: it is not a coincidence that the Islamic caliphate sacked the Romans the 4th kingdom from Babylon.

Even Jesus was reported to have said in Matthew 21:43 addressing the chief priest and the Pharisees "therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation that will produce its fruit"

The road map is there for anyone that cares about the truth.

Qasim6:
Your delusion knows no bound

From the "hardcore irrefutable evidence" you brought, It is clearly written they believed the Patriarchs were pre-existing even before Christ, but you turn a blind eye to that.




Stop deceiving yourself, ancient Judaism does not validate your semi-pagan religion. You have nothing to stand on.



Guy, even some of them, if not all of them like the Ebionites saw Paul as heretic/apostate of the law and guess what? they read another gospel too written by Matthew in Hebrew and not the forged one we have now.

And James that was the leader of the Jerusalem messianic Jews was against Paul teachings. So why would they read Paul writings?




There is nothing divine about Isaiah 53. U r just seeing something that is not there. The striking resemblance in Isaiah 53 and life of Jeremiah is just too much to be discarded.



This is the order of the kingdoms

Babylon - Persia - Greece - Rome.

If anyone give you any other order, they just want to take you for a fool, and it is definitely someone that has seen that it's Islam that fulfilled the kingdom of God prophecy and just trying to play smart. Media and Persia are the same thing.

Emperor Hadrian desecrated the temple mount. Expelled the Jews and Messianic Jews from Jerusalem and placed the statue of Zeus on the temple mount. The ban on Jews was maintained until the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem in 636.


It is not a coincidence that the prophecies about that individual that God is going to send to the gentiles are always giving Prophet Muhammad vibes.

Isaiah 42: why would God be referencing villages of kedar. Kedar that is ancestor of Prophet Muhammad.

Deuteronomy 18:18: a prophet like Moses from among the brethren of the Israelites. and deut 34:10 went on to tell us "Never again did there arise in Israel a prophet like Moses—whom lord singled out, face to face."
So who is this prophet like Moses that is not Israelite.

Son of man of the book of Daniel: it is not a coincidence that the Islamic caliphate sacked the Romans the 4th kingdom from Babylon.

Even Jesus was reported to have said in Matthew 21:43 addressing the chief priest and the Pharisees "therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation that will produce its fruit"

The road map is there for anyone that cares about the truth.

Your whataboutism will not save u. I will embarrass U will ton of evidence until U are embarrassed to deny it.

Imagine telling me to reject old testament Scholastic work on book of Daniel and accept his own.
Imagine substituting actual temple for a mointian....wuruwuru to the answer.
Yet he's the one accusing me of forcing Jesus into the old testament.
I will come back and debunk your wuruwuru extrapolation.

Meanwhile collect another evidence of divine Messiah from the Essene.
Essenes, Pharisees and Sadducees sects were the Judaism philosophy in the 2nd temple period.
One of their popular member of Essene was John the Baptist.
Now let's look at what the mainstream Essene believed in that period.

Kingsempires:
Oga sirteel you get knowledge about religion well "GOD BLESS YOU" I will go and study so ancient text you called here

Thanks.
Muslims are very dubious people when it comes to validating their religion.
And it's our duty to call them out and debunk their lies.

What some of them are doing now is to claim that ancient Judaism validates Islam and that the 2 beliefs are similar.

However what they don't know is that ancient Judaism post exilic period is actually a continuation of christianity. That's why 'James the just' could boldly preach in the temple.

It doesn't even make sense. Muslims can't call Allah father. Allah clearly told them not to call him father.
But God in the old testament declared people should call him Father.

I have used evidence to wound one confused naija Jewish boy but this Qasim is proving stubborn 🐐 as usual.

He go deny tire.

[quote author=SIRTee15 post=131512509]Thanks.
Muslims are very dubious people when it comes to validating their religion.
And it's our duty to call them out and debunk their lies.

What some of them are doing now is to claim that ancient Judaism validates Islam and that the 2 beliefs are similar.

However what they don't know is that ancient Judaism post exilic period is actually a continuation of christianity. That's why 'James the just' could boldly preach in the temple.

It doesn't even make sense. Muslims can't call Allah father. Allah clearly told them not to call him father.
But God in the old testament declared people should call him Father.

I have used evidence to wound one confused naija Jewish boy but this Qasim is proving stubborn

Qasim6:
This is the order of the kingdoms

Babylon - Persia - Greece - Rome.

If anyone give you any other order, they just want to take you for a fool, and it is definitely someone that has seen that it's Islam that fulfilled the kingdom of God prophecy and just trying to play smart. Media and Persia are the same thing.

Very interesting a Muslim is debunking bible scholars and claiming they are anti-islam.
Muslims that cent breathe without quoting bible scholars up and down- they confirmed bible has been corrupted, verses have been added and removed.
Now that table is turned, it's suddenly bible scholars cannot be trusted.
First ancient Jews, now bible scholars....
U see the hypocrisy and double standard of Muslims in glare public.

Once again I have no problem if a Muslim reject bible scholars opinion on the scriptures because they are not theists but historians. It's just the way Muslims quote them to validate their argument against Christianity that makes their hypocrisy stinks.

SIRTee15:
Very interesting a Muslim is debunking bible scholars and claiming they are anti-islam.
Muslims that cent breathe without quoting bible scholars up and down- they confirmed bible has been corrupted, verses have been added and removed.
Now that table is turned, it's suddenly bible scholars cannot be trusted.
First ancient Jews, now bible scholars....
U see the hypocrisy and double standard of Muslims in glare public.

Once again I have no problem if a Muslim reject bible scholars opinion on the scriptures because they are not theists but historians. It's just the way Muslims quote them to validate their argument against Christianity that makes their hypocrisy stinks.

What are you doing bro?

U better don't embarrass yourself.

Take a good look at Daniel prophecies yourself, and you will see he already identified the 2nd and 3rd empires after Babylon.

You are not getting out of this.

This is the most detailed prophecy that leads to our salvation. If you want to reject it, no problem. But don't come here with nonsense.

You are either going to accept Islam fulfilled the kingdom of God prophecy or you take it as failed prophecy. Whichever is your take, be my guest.

Cope harder.

Qasim6:
What are you doing bro?

U better don't embarrass yourself.

Take a good look at Daniel prophecies yourself, and you will see he already identified the 2nd and 3rd empires after Babylon.

You are not getting out of this.

This is the most detailed prophecy that leads to our salvation. If you want to reject it, no problem. But don't come here with nonsense.

You are either going to accept Islam fulfilled the kingdom of God prophecy or you take it as failed prophecy. Whichever is your take, be my guest.

Cope harder.

Is the need of arguing with Qasim.there are many statement that he made here that shows that he knows nothing about history.he just said that it was the islam that brought jews back to jeruselum after hadrian expell jews from entering jeruselem .men!!! Nothing were i never see for nairaland.

Kingsempires:
Is the need of arguing with Qasim.there are many statement that he made here that shows that he knows nothing about history.he just said that it was the islam that brought jews back to jeruselum after hadrian expell jews from entering jeruselem .men!!! Nothing were i never see for nairaland.

Lol

Yeah, the Muslims brought them back.

When the Romans became Christian nation they continue to persecute the Jews. To spite them the Christains use temple mount as refuse dump. It was the Muslims led by the 2nd Caliph Umar that clean it up and allowed the Jews back in Jerusalem.

Qasim6:
Lol

Yeah, the Muslims brought them back.

When the Romans became Christian nation they continue to persecute the Jews, to spite them the Christains use temple mount as refuse dump. It was the Muslims led by the 2nd Caliph Umar that clean it up and allowed the Jews back in Jerusalem.

men were are you getting your news from so when did Christians persecuted the Jew ? Stop making noise that Islam nation was the fourth nation the was in the vision of Daniel after all do you know how the crusaders also fought against Islam ☪️

Kingsempires:
men were are you getting your news from so when did Christians persecuted the Jew ? Stop making noise that Islam nation was the fourth nation the was in the vision of Daniel after all do you know how the crusaders also fought against Islam ☪️

No, Islam nation is not the fourth nation, Rome is the fourth nation.

Of course I know about the crusaders and all their evils in Andalusia and Jerusalem.

Qasim6:
What are you doing bro?

U better don't embarrass yourself.

Take a good look at Daniel prophecies yourself, and you will see he already identified the 2nd and 3rd empires after Babylon.

You are not getting out of this.

This is the most detailed prophecy that leads to our salvation. If you want to reject it, no problem. But don't come here with nonsense.

You are either going to accept Islam fulfilled the kingdom of God prophecy or you take it as failed prophecy. Whichever is your take, be my guest.

Cope harder.

So U rejecting the consensus of bible scholars?
Are U saying U know better than bible scholars?
Note these are all atheist bible scholars and not Christians.

Answer this question first and then I will go back to that passage and prove to U that the passage is about Greece and Anthiochus Epiphanes and Jesus Christ.
It can't be about Rome or Hadrian or Muhammad.

SIRTee15:
So U rejecting the consensus of bible scholars?
Are U saying U know better than bible scholars?
Note these are all atheist bible scholars and not Christians.

Answer this question first and then I will go back to that passage and prove to U that the passage is about Greece and Anthiochus Epiphanes and Jesus Christ.
It can't be about Rome or Hadrian or Muhammad.

Consensus of scholars can't know more than Daniel that identified the 2nd and 3rd empires as Persia and Greece.

Qasim6:
No, Islam nation is not the fourth nation, Rome is the fourth nation.

Of course I know about the crusaders and all their evils in Andalusia and Jerusalem.

A christian have explain for you about dan 7 and you are still saying his wrong; the fourth nation was not rome i don't know were you are getting all this form. Sent your evidence as sirteel did. I even hard you say that the bible talked about mohammed. Men!, how can you be agruing with a christian with the bible interpretion so you don know bible pass am

Qasim6:
Lol

Yeah, the Muslims brought them back.

When the Romans became Christian nation they continue to persecute the Jews. To spite them the Christains use temple mount as refuse dump. It was the Muslims led by the 2nd Caliph Umar that clean it up and allowed the Jews back in Jerusalem.

I gnored that claim because it was clear ignorance.
Immediately after Hadrian's death, Jews were allowed to return to Jerusalem.
Father Jerome wrote the Latin vulgate bible in 382 AD with the help of the Jews living inside Jerusalem.
Jerome didn't want to use the greek Septuagint for his old testament translation.
Instead he travelled to Jerusalem and met with Jewish rabbi who taught him Hebrew and helped him with the translation of Tanakh to Latin.

Qasim6:
Consensus of scholars can't know more than Daniel that identified the 2nd and 3rd empires as Persia and Greece.

Quote the verse where he said above. And what empire is the 4th according to Daniel?
I can't see where Daniel mentioned Greece in chapter 7. Greece was mentioned in chapter 8 and not directly related to the 4 beasts

SIRTee15:
Quote the verse where he said above. And what empire is the 4th according to Daniel?
I can't see where Daniel mentioned Greece in chapter 7. Greece was mentioned in chapter 8 and not directly related to the 4 beasts

You can check Daniel 8 :20-21

SIRTee15:
I gnored that claim because it was clear ignorance.
Immediately after Hadrian's death, Jews were allowed to return to Jerusalem.
Father Jerome wrote the Latin vulgate bible in 382 AD with the help of the Jews living inside Jerusalem.
Jerome didn't want to use the greek Septuagint for his old testament translation.
Instead he travelled to Jerusalem and met with Jewish rabbi who taught him Hebrew and helped him with the translation of Tanakh to Latin.

Thank God you do come see wetin i dey see for here. I don't know were this guy is bring his history from

Qasim6:
You can check Daniel 8 :20-21

So it had nothing to do with the 4 beasts.
Chapter 8 is about the ram and goat with horns.

So where did U see the 3rd beast was called Greece by Daniel?
Daniel called the goat Greece. The 3rd beast in chapter 7 is a leopard.

But notice a remarkable correlation in chapter 7 and 8.
Both the 4th beast in chapter 7 and the goat in 8 have mighty horns, and there's always a small horn that replace 3 previous horns- starts small and grew big. This 4th horn is always the one that defy the holy land and God's people in both chapter 7 and 8. He is the one that set himself against the temple by causing desecration

Did U notice the similarity? So if Daniel in 8 is telling U that the goat with horns is Greece who desecrated the holy land, then remove that bias islamic lens, go back to chapter 7 and look for the beast with horn who also desecrated the holy land.

Remember the unique symbol of Alexander the great, the mighty king of Greece is the HORN- Alexander the great is popularly called the two horned one.
That should tell U something.

There's no Rome in that passage. Anybody puting Rome is forcing his own interpretation.

SIRTee15:
Your whataboutism will not save u. I will embarrass U will ton of evidence until U are embarrassed to deny it.

Imagine telling me to reject old testament Scholastic work on book of Daniel and accept his own.
Imagine substituting actual temple for a mointian....wuruwuru to the answer.
Yet he's the one accusing me of forcing Jesus into the old testament.
I will come back and debunk your wuruwuru extrapolation.

Meanwhile collect another evidence of divine Messiah from the Essene.
Essenes, Pharisees and Sadducees sects were the Judaism philosophy in the 2nd temple period.
One of their popular member of Essene was John the Baptist.
Now let's look at what the mainstream Essene believed in that period.

The book of Enoch was a interesting book, it identify Jesus as "THE CHOSEN ONE" upon the book was thousands of years before christ

SIRTee15:
I gnored that claim because it was clear ignorance.
Immediately after Hadrian's death, Jews were allowed to return to Jerusalem.
Father Jerome wrote the Latin vulgate bible in 382 AD with the help of the Jews living inside Jerusalem.
Jerome didn't want to use the greek Septuagint for his old testament translation.
Instead he travelled to Jerusalem and met with Jewish rabbi who taught him Hebrew and helped him with the translation of Tanakh to Latin.

you just dey give am evidence, tell am make him bring in own evidences too

SIRTee15

Daniel 8 tells us about a vision which occurred sometime after the dream of the statue in Daniel 2. This vision is said to have taken place during the reign of the Babylonian King Belshazzar. The vision informs us of a powerful two-horned ram which will emerge on the world stage which will only be defeated by an even more powerful goat. This goat is said to have a prominent horn that will eventually split into four smaller horns.

in Daniel 8: 15-20 angel Gabriel interprets the dream to Daniel that the ram with two horns symbolises a combined kingdom consisting of Medo-Persians.

The two-horned ram is an excellent symbol as the two horns represent the two powers of the Medes and Persians who united under Cyrus the Great. Daniel saw the vision of the ram in the third year of the reign of Belshazzar (about 550 bce) which happens to be the time at which the Medes and Persians united as allies.
According to Daniel, the Medo-Persian Empire
represents a single animal, a single kingdom.

We already know the first kingdom to be Babylon. If we go to Isaiah 13: 17-19 and also Jeremiah 51:11 we have another prophecy about how God will stir up the Medes to overthrown/destroy the Babylonians. When Isaiah and Jeremiah gave their prophecies the Medes were an independent nation unlike when Daniel had his vision when they are a combined nation with Persia.

Therefore kingdom 2 is medo-persia.

For the 3rd kingdom

Daniel 8:20-22
The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is the first king. The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power.

Historically, Alexander the Great was King of the ancient Greek kingdom of Macedon. He came into power in 336 BCE. He overthrew the Medo-Persians. He died in 323 bce with his empire descending into chaos, eventually splitting up into four stable but weaker power blocks: the Ptolemaic Kingdom of Egypt, the Seleucid Empire in the east, the Kingdom of Pergamon in Asia Minor, and Macedon.

SIRTee15

For the 4th kingdom.

It is a common knowledge the Romans overthrown the Greeks

Abi make we still delve into history mixed with some prophecies?

Kingsempires:
you just dey give am evidence, tell am make him bring in own evidences too

dey there dey shine teeth. I go use prophecy wound you and your champion.

Qasim6:
dey there dey shine teeth. I go use prophecy wound you and your champion.

men!!, this is your forge interpretation let me just post the link so that you can see it


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_8#:~:text=The%20symbols%20of%20the%20ram,and%20Syria%20in%20Hellenistic%20astrology.

Qasim6:
SIRTee15

For the 4th kingdom.

It is a common knowledge the Romans overthrown the Greeks

Abi make we still delve into history mixed with some prophecies?

Drop it, U now sounding like a crack cd.
U want to delve into history. Which history? Are U better than bible scholars when it comes to history. They already told U the 4th beast is Greece and I agree.
The 4th beast had 10 horns representing kings. One of the king usurp the authorities of 3 others and invaded the holy place.

This is what Anthiochus did, he killed the incumbent, made sure the heir to the throne was trapped in Rome and later killed his joint heir.
Hadrian that U are pushing had no problem becoming emperor and had nobody challenged him to the throne.
He wasn't even among the first 10 emperors of Rome, he was number 15.

Daniel also said in the next chapter that the goat who desecrated the holy temple had ten horns and the atrocity was committed by the 4th one.
He called the goat greek empire. What more evidence do U want?
The great horn on the 4th beast couldn't have been talking about Hadrian. Titus even fit the picture better- he destroyed the temple, sacked Jews and called himself Messiah. But the problem is he did all those as a General and not Emperor.

This case is done and dusted. Argue with bible scholars who are natural historians.
Let me bust your next lie...
The prophet Moses spoke about.

Qasim6:
dey there dey shine teeth. I go use prophecy wound you and your champion.

Wound who...
With your wuruwuru to the answer prophecy...
U have been arguing against evidence since we started.
In case U pretend not to miss it.
This is what John the Baptist, one of your prophets believed about the Messiah.