₦airaland Forum

chieveboy:
Yes it is. The Lucidity is what differentiates Dreaming from Soul Travel.
One misconception is that feeling of getting out of the body is compulsory. It is not.

The advanced stage of Soul Travel does not involve getting out of the body or that feeling. With eyes wide open, you 'collapse sight' (as a matter of saying) to See and Know instantly. Chances are everyone had had this experience before.

I'm a lucid dreamer and one thing I have learnt in my practice is how expectation shapes the content of the dream. For example, if I expect a friend I wish to see to be behind a closed door, he will be there, but I know that "friend" is just a projection from me, a thought form.

Now, instead of a friend let's assume I intend to encounter an Eck Master upon opening the door, he will also be there.

The question now is, is that a real Eck Master or a thought form created by my expectation.

Michael547:
😂😂😂....na wa oo...what kind of evidence is this that you claim that science has? Evidence that gets one confused. Na wa oo.....are these evidences really the truth? Even you don't know which one to follow😂.

You're confused because you're looking for certainty. Science is not concern with certainty, its own is to provide an explanation for a phenomenon and then give evidence to support its claim. It will continue to hold on to that explanation supported by evidence until another evidence surfaces to dispute it.

Example, science initially view gravity as a force of attraction that objects with mass has to draw thing to itself and they have evidence to support that conclusion.

Then Einstein comes along and said no, gravity is not a force but a phenomenon that arises due to curvature in space time fabric and he was able to provide sufficient evidence to support this explanation.
In science, there is always room for improvement.

What do you mean by "I don't know which one to follow"? Nah religion?

justlove91:
You're confused because you're looking for certainty. Science is not concern with certainty, its own is to provide an explanation for a phenomenon and then give evidence to support its claim. It will continue to hold on to that explanation supported by evidence until another evidence surfaces to dispute it.

Example, science initially view gravity as a force of attraction that objects with mass has to draw thing to itself and they have evidence to support that conclusion.

Then Einstein comes along and said no, gravity is not a force but a phenomenon that arises due to curvature in space time fabric and he was able to provide sufficient evidence to support this explanation.
In science, there is always room for improvement.

What do you mean by "I don't know which one to follow"? Nah religion?

All this one you are saying is that the so-called evidence of science could be a lie....where there are two contradictory evidences, one is a lie. So even your science lies. Na wa oo😂.

Michael547:
All this one you are saying is that the so-called evidence of science could be a lie....where there are two contradictory evidences, one is a lie. So even your science lies. Na wa oo😂.

You don't even give him any place to hide or breathing space

Michael547:
All this one you are saying is that the so-called evidence of science could be a lie....where there are two contradictory evidences, one is a lie. So even your science lies. Na wa oo😂.

Some things are not black and white as you think. For example, if a scientist wants to calculate or solve a problem that involves large objects (macro level) Newtonian physics will do. But this can't work for quantum entities like particles and electrons, he will then have to use quantum physics.
The fact that he can't use Newtonian physics to solve quantum problem doesn't mean Newtonian physics is a lie.

Aemmyjah:
You don't even give him any place to hide or breathing space

Iru iro niborun

justlove91:
Some things are not black and white as you think. For example, if a scientist wants to calculate or solve a problem that involves large objects (macro level) Newtonian physics will do. But this can't work for quantum entities like particles and electrons, he will then have to use quantum physics.
The fact that he can't use Newtonian physics to solve quantum problem doesn't mean Newtonian physics is a lie.

We are talking about evidences here that are attached to a claim not method of solving problems. If there are two scientifically contradictory evidence that are brought out as facts to a particular claim, one must be a lie.

You've assured me here that science does not lie based on evidence. But you also have clearly convinced me that there are contradictions in the evidence of science which has made you not to accept some of their claim as facts. Does that not show that there are lies in those so-called evidences?

Aemmyjah:
You don't even give him any place to hide or breathing space

No space oo...my brother. The truth must come out.

Michael547:
We are talking about evidences here that are attached to a claim not method of solving problems. If there are two scientifically contradictory evidence that are brought out as facts to a particular claim, one must be a lie.

You've assured me here that science does not lie based on evidence. But you also have clearly convinced me that there are contradictions in the evidence of science which has made you not to accept some of their claim as facts. Does that not show that there are lies in those so-called evidences?

You must remember that evidence is there to support a claim or a conclusion and it is possible for the evidence to be right and the conclusion to be wrong.

Example, if the fingerprint of Mr. A is found on a murder weapon, we can conclude/claim that Mr. A is the murderer. If along the line we found a cctv footage of Mr. B committing the said murder, then our conclusion about Mr A was wrong even though our evidence of his fingerprint was right. That's, the evidence of his fingerprint was not a lie (it is actually there on the murder weapon) but our conclusion was wrong.

justlove91:
I'm a lucid dreamer and one thing I have learnt in my practice is how expectation shapes the content of the dream. For example, if I expect a friend I wish to see to be behind a closed door, he will be there, but I know that "friend" is just a projection from me, a thought form.

Now, instead of a friend let's assume I intend to encounter an Eck Master upon opening the door, he will also be there.

The question now is, is that a real Eck Master or a thought form created by my expectation.

What you saw is real as far as reality in the lower world is concerned where Thought Substance is the building block of everything. What perhaps you need to do next is sing HU whenever you meet anyone in the inner plane. They remain if they are of pure intentions.

We must not forget the law of imagination or thought, which is that no one can ever imagine or think of anything that does not exist.

This can be a mind-twister considering if you think your friend is is coming, it is real and if you think he is going at that same time. In programming, thought can be likened to the concept of Variables and their declaration...

For manifestation, "expectation" is one of the forces at play that pulls those thoughts to the thinker. There are other part of the constituents for manifestation.

Michael547:
There you are going back to argue with the bible again even after it has failed your soul without body theory. Just rest if you can't show me a verse that says that the soul is indestructible and cannot die.

I told you that as far as destroying the Soul is concerned, the Bible erred. I tod you that the bible is one compilation of the two extremes and anything between of falsehood, truths and half truths.

On whether Paul was talking of being "caught up into the third heaven..." with the physical body, perhaps what I didn't do was open you head into two to make you see clearly that no one could have visited any planet we know with the physical body talk more of heaven.

I also didn't tell you of the Biblical scripture where it said "God is spirit and those who come must come in spirit...". Like seriously where you waiting to be told which of the two possibilities of in the body or out of it happened?

chieveboy:
What you saw is real as far as reality in the lower world is concerned where Thought Substance is the building block of everything. What perhaps you need to do next is sing HU whenever you meet anyone in the inner plane. They remain if they are of pure intentions.

What do you mean @bolded, my friend that appeared behind the closed door is just there simply because I expect him to, there is no question of him having pure or impure intentions.

What do you think will happen if I sing HU in one of my lucid dreams? And do I have to belief in it before it can be effective for me?

We must not forget the law of imagination or thought, which is that no one can ever imagine or think of anything that does not exist.

Do you mean that the reason we are able to think or imagine a thing is because that thing already exist or thinking or imagining a thing cause it to exist in the lower world?

Michael547:
No space oo...my brother. The truth must come out.

😆

chieveboy:
I told you that as far as destroying the Soul is concerned, the Bible erred. I tod you that the bible is one compilation of the two extremes and anything between of falsehood, truths and half truths.

On whether Paul was talking of being "caught up into the third heaven..." with the physical body, perhaps what I didn't do was open you head into two to make you see clearly that no one could have visited any planet we know with the physical body talk more of heaven.

I also didn't tell you of the Biblical scripture where it said "God is spirit and those who come must come in spirit...". Like seriously where you waiting to be told which of the two possibilities of in the body or out of it happened?

The problem you are having is that you are insisting that the bible supports the idea of a conscious and immortal soul that can travel without the body. Till now you've not proved it. Even the apostle Paul that you are quoting never used the word 'soul' in that verse. You claim the bible is erroneous, you are still strongly quoting from it to prove your point.

Now you've moved from 'soul' to 'spirit'.
Are you saying that spirit and soul are the same?
Do spirits in heaven have their own bodies?

justlove91:
You must remember that evidence is there to support a claim or a conclusion and it is possible for the evidence to be right and the conclusion to be wrong.

Example, if the fingerprint of Mr. A is found on a murder weapon, we can conclude/claim that Mr. A is the murderer. If along the line we found a cctv footage of Mr. B committing the said murder, then our conclusion about Mr A was wrong even though [b]our evidence of his fingerprint was right. That's, the evidence of his fingerprint was not a lie (it is actually there on the murder weapon) but our conclusion was wrong.[/b]

All these your analogy still proves that scientific evidences are not free from lies. Yes or no?

chieveboy:
I was speaking to you about practically discovering that yourself the other day wasn't I?

With courage, you can do that too. You can go through the process of dying beholding your physical body on lying down.

If you can't, you must have heard how relatives of people who have supposedly died contacting hem with information even on how they want their burial to go or where they kept something that could help the family they left.

You can take those accounts as testaments to the reality of those who proved Soul does not only survive death, Soul is actually indestructible by even Jehovah of the Christians and the rulers above him.

There are rulers above Jehovah?

Michael547:
The problem you are having is that you are insisting that the bible supports the idea of a conscious soul that can travel without the body. Till now you've not proved it. Even the apostle Paul that you are quoting never used the word 'soul' in that verse. You claim the bible is erroneous, you are still strongly quoting from it to prove your point.

May I whittle what the translators of the bible call in different occasions "Soul", "Spirit", "Heart" & "Mind":

Most of the time, they mean 'Soul' especially if the object of that sentence grammatically requires a Noun. If you dissect a person, the 'Identity' part of the person is Soul. Not "the soul" or "my soul" as Christians put it. For instance " I am Chieveboy" not "I am my Chieveboy, or I am a Chieveboy". The adjective for Soul is "Spirit".

If you remove Soul from the equation, no body and nothing will exist even Matter itself. This information of course will be alien for anyone whom the 'Parable of the Sower' falls on.

It emanates from advanced information about the constituents of man and is indeed apt given the fact that science for instance has more information about what biologically makes up a man than the Bible, even as Mystics know more than science as to the spiritual constituents of man than mainstream science.

The Bible at the moment is a good source of information, if your optimum goal is to only read where the terms "Soul" "Spirit" and "Mind" is used without further details and grounds for going beyond it. It is a setup where the average readers have swore an oath of no progression seemingly.

Now you've moved from 'soul' to 'spirit'. Are you saying that spirit and soul are the same. Do spirits in heaven have their own bodies?

Soul wears the physical body (among three others) because it is 'Spirit', and God (The Supreme Deity) knows spirits cannot hold physical objects and vice-versa, so a compatible body is availed them. For this reason, God cannot come to the physical else the physical disintegrates while a physical body cannot go to even Mars here...

The other three bodies are the:

1: Astral ( or emotional body) were emotions are derived and is "measurable" with the right scientific tools available today.

2: Causal ( or Destiny-seed Body), the Record and recording house of the body and the universe.

3:Mental ( AKA Mind), which is the 'Firmware' that is used to run all the four bodies.

All these are bodies Soul runs at the same time to while running the Physical body.

These three bodies corresponds to the 3 heavens starting from the Astral, Causal and Mental or 3rd heaven which Paul speaks of.

Also, as everyone is living here in the physical, they are also concurrently living in these heavens at the same time as "being alive" here. The challenge is that 99% of people have what they call their "awareness" indexed or focused only in their index or 'last-body' plane or world which is earth for humans. They only have a slight glimpse of what they are doing in the other worlds when they sleep and wake up to call it a "dream". Most do not make it beyond the first heaven while they dream.

Everything or place in the physical are copied from the first heaven or Astral plane from the remotest village on earth to the best that earth has not seen yet. This is why some ho die go to their village and may not know they are dead had gone to "heaven".

In death, the Physical body is dropped and Soul functions in the Astral body to be able to operate in the 1st heaven. Most people on earth due to ack of information believe this is the final heaven owing to the grandeur, that is if their Love Balance-sheet allows them go to finer parts of this place.

The ruler of this place of course appears majestic beyond words and is the God of most religions because most do not know any better, and this knowledge is no guarantee of going past him. He is the ruler of all worlds below him and appoints the rulers of earth who are responsible to him whether they know so or not.

justlove91:
What do you mean @bolded, my friend that appeared behind the closed door is just there simply because I expect him to, there is no question of him having pure or impure intentions.

I meant if you meet an Eck master in the dream, you sing HU. If they don't burst into oblivion, you met the master you are seeing. This gos for anyone you meet in the inner.

If it appears here in the physical, the chance of anyone impersonating your friends is very very slim. Even at that, the HU is still important.

What do you think will happen if I sing HU in one of my lucid dreams? And do I have to belief in it before it can be effective for me?

You do not need to believe in the HU for it to work for you. In your innermost and purest being or state, that sound frequency is what you are. For now, we need to wait for science to find a way to test these point I am making.

Do you mean that the reason we are able to think or imagine a thing is because that thing already exist or thinking or imagining a thing cause it to exist in the lower world?

Yes, we are able to think it because it exists. I tried to explain how in my recent response to Michael. Right now, we are all swimming in another city, place and Space. This is not even the Astral dimension o, not to talk of the Mental.

These cities and 'places' vibrate higher from what we biologically and morphologically accept as our Reality Index (Focus), but our eyes are not that fast enough to catch a sight of them.

delishpot:
There are rulers above Jehovah?

Sure! But do not throw the baby with the bath water though.

Any ruler below is just the one above Stepping down to create and run a Reality Matrix different from the upper one.

Just do not lose yourself while not throwing the baby with the bath water. All rulers including Satan are all doing a God-given duty and are actually 'God' but not God. By "God", I mean the Supreme Deity which is Nameless, Formless and Endless. Its only quality is LOVE--the unconditional one. Those others are inherently incapable of this.

This leads to the age-old saying: "Man Know thyself"

chieveboy:
May I whittle what the translators of the bible call in different occasions "Soul", "Spirit", "Heart" & "Mind":

Most of the time, they mean 'Soul' especially if the object of that sentence grammatically requires a Noun. If you dissect a person, the 'Identity' part of the person is Soul. Not "the soul" or "my soul" as Christians put it. For instance " I am Chieveboy" not "I am my Chieveboy, or I am a Chieveboy". The adjective for Soul is "Spirit".

If you remove Soul from the equation, no body and nothing will exist even Matter itself. This information of course will be alien for anyone whom the 'Parable of the Sower' falls on.

It emanates from advanced information about the constituents of man and is indeed apt given the fact that science for instance has more information about what biologically makes up a man than the Bible, even as Mystics know more than science as to the spiritual constituents of man than mainstream science.

The Bible at the moment is a good source of information, if your optimum goal is to only read where the terms "Soul" "Spirit" and "Mind" is used without further details and grounds for going beyond it. It is a setup where the average readers have swore an oath of no progression seemingly.

Please kindly tell me where you got the information at the bolded from since you've claimed that the bible is erroneous?

Soul wears the physical body (among three others) because it is 'Spirit', and God (The Supreme Deity) knows spirits cannot hold physical objects and vice-versa, so a compatible body is availed them. For this reason, God cannot come to the physical else the physical disintegrates while a physical body cannot go to even Mars here...

The other three bodies are the:

1: Astral ( or emotional body) were emotions are derived and is "measurable" with the right scientific tools available today.

2: Causal ( or Destiny-seed Body), the Record and recording house of the body and the universe.

3:Mental ( AKA Mind), which is the 'Firmware' that is used to run all the four bodies.

All these are bodies Soul runs at the same time to while running the Physical body.

These three bodies corresponds to the 3 heavens starting from the Astral, Causal and Mental or 3rd heaven which Paul speaks of.

Also, as everyone is living here in the physical, they are also concurrently living in these heavens at the same time as "being alive" here. The challenge is that 99% of people have what they call their "awareness" indexed or focused only in their index or 'last-body' plane or world which is earth for humans. They only have a slight glimpse of what they are doing in the other worlds when they sleep and wake up to call it a "dream". Most do not make it beyond the first heaven while they dream.

Everything or place in the physical are copied from the first heaven or Astral plane from the remotest village on earth to the best that earth has not seen yet. This is why some ho die go to their village and may not know they are dead had gone to "heaven".

In death, the Physical body is dropped and Soul functions in the Astral body to be able to operate in the 1st heaven. Most people on earth due to ack of information believe this is the final heaven owing to the grandeur, that is if their Love Balance-sheet allows them go to finer parts of this place.

The ruler of this place of course appears majestic beyond words and is the God of most religions because most do not know any better, and this knowledge is no guarantee of going past him. He is the ruler of all worlds below him and appoints the rulers of earth who are responsible to him whether they know so or not.

Are you saying at the bolded that soul and spirit are the same and that the soul is not tangible according to the Bible?

What is the source of all these your information about three bodies and different heavens?

I advice you stop dishing out so much information without a reference to a source of your information.

Michael547:
Please kindly tell me where you got the information at the bolded from since you've claimed that the bible is erroneous?

Remind yourself to completely grasp what I said about the bible being erroneous.

I wonder why you think a book written and compiled by humans would be error-free.

Are you saying at the bolded that soul and spirit are the same and that the soul is not tangible according to the Bible?

Spirit an adjective or the word used to describe Soul. Soul is not tangible. The body IT uses is tangible.

What is the source of all these your information about three bodies and different heavens?

From numerous sources ranging from African fore fathers until some people found a way to convince them that they must now become another people (Jews) by faith before they can go where their fathers and even to they themselves visit nightly and call it "dreams".

I advice you stop dishing out so much information without a reference to a source of your information.

How about you make use of this advise instead and quite stopping people from freeing themselves of beliefs they adopted from a bible which itself gave no source of its information other than people speaking about their own personal experiences like me and my sources?

chieveboy:
Remind yourself to completely grasp what I said about the bible being erroneous.

I wonder why you think a book written and compiled by humans would be error-free.






Spirit an adjective or the word used to describe Soul. Soul is not tangible. The body IT uses is tangible.



From numerous sources ranging from African fore fathers until some people found a way to convince them that they must now become another people (Jews) by faith before they can go where their fathers and even to they themselves visit nightly and call it "dreams".




How about you make use of this advise instead and quite stopping people from freeing themselves of beliefs they adopted from a bible which itself gave no source of its information other than people speaking about their own personal experiences like me and my sources?

How do you know that the soul is not physical and not tangible, does the Bible also support that idea?

Can you please supply the sources of information of these African forefathers that taught you all the things that you've been saying on these thread?

Michael547:
How do you know that the soul is not physical and not tangible, does the Bible also support that idea?

Can you please supply the sources of information of these African forefathers that taught you all the things that you've been saying on these thread?

Here you are about sources.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InK9MZh7D6g?si=V8F4Oe_maCgiZYRd

chieveboy:
Here you are about sources.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InK9MZh7D6g?si=V8F4Oe_maCgiZYRd

Lol....I must say you are a very interesting person....the man in this your video is neither an African nor did he state any African source of information of which you claimed you got these information from.

At the end of the day you just want to tell me things that I should just swallow and accept. You just want me to ignore Bible's information and take your own information as true.

Just rest sir.....thank you.

Michael547:
Lol....I must say you are a very interesting person....the man in this your video is neither an African nor did he state any African source of information of which you claimed you got these information from.

At the end of the day you just want to tell me things that I should just swallow and accept. You just want me to ignore Bible's information and take your own information as true.

Just rest sir.....thank you.

...You saw but didn't see.

Michael547:
Lol....I must say you are a very interesting person....the man in this your video is neither an African nor did he state any African source of information of which you claimed you got these information from.

At the end of the day you just want to tell me things that I should just swallow and accept. You just want me to ignore Bible's information and take your own information as true.

Just rest sir.....thank you.

...You saw but didn't see...

chieveboy:
...You saw but didn't see...

😂😂ok oo.

Michael547:
😂😂ok oo.

Here, you can deduce something:

He didn't say if white people go within themselves into the Holy of Holies, they will be able to prove things for themselves instead of relying on the experiences of others.

Your line of reasoning is awaiting for a black man to be mentioned first, or you are waiting for a black man to be the one speaking...

To whittle it down, the video is saying African forefathers and any other race of humanity use same method to go to the places which people call heaven to see things and report to children of their generation like Chieveboy and so on. Anyone so interested may use same method just like Chieveboy and the African fore fathers.

Paper and ink (Holy Bibles of all religions), Chieveboys, Daddy GOs, The Video above, Paul & Peter, etc may be faulty, inconclusive, right or anything in between and beyond.

I think it is indeed funny you asking me of proof of African fore fathers saying such

A juju you need to investigate is this:

Just like how Chieveboy said something which you needed prove of and he didn't give you, its the same way Paul said something and didn't give you prove of. Both I and all Characters in the Bible didn't give you any prove. We all just said something...

Did you catch anything?

chieveboy:
Here, you can deduce something:

He didn't say if white people go within themselves into the Holy of Holies, they will be able to prove things for themselves instead of relying on the experiences of others.

Your line of reasoning is awaiting for a black man to be mentioned first, or you are waiting for a black man to be the one speaking...

To whittle it down, the video is saying African forefathers and any other race of humanity use same method to go to the places which people call heaven to see things and report to children of their generation like Chieveboy and so on. Anyone so interested may use same method just like Chieveboy and the African fore fathers.

Paper and ink (Holy Bibles of all religions), Chieveboys, Daddy GOs, The Video above, Paul & Peter, etc may be faulty, inconclusive, right or anything in between and beyond.

I think it is indeed funny you asking me of proof of African fore fathers saying such

A juju you need to investigate is this:

Just like how Chieveboy said something which you needed prove of and he didn't give you, its the same way Paul said something and didn't give you prove of. Both I and all Characters in the Bible didn't give you any prove. We all just said something...

Did you catch anything?

The problem you have is that you've found fault with every other information on this thread except from the one that you've said from God knows where. If i don't trust the information in the bible, why should I trust yours?
Your aim is to make me disbelief the bible just because me and the bible do not support your ideas.

I'm only In conversation with you on this thread because you said that the bible supports your ideas which I've proved you wrong..

So just rest.

Michael547:
The problem you have is that you've found fault with every other information on this thread except from the one that you've said from God knows where.

Indeed, from me to the Bible and other sources, God know where they originated from.

If i don't trust the information in the bible, why should I trust yours?

From the onset to no, where did anyone mentioned you trust any external source of information?

Your aim is to make me disbelief the bible just because me and the bible do not support your ideas.

I am merely telling you what I know that I have verified beyond just reading and believing what I do not know or have verified. This is the premise your complications emanates from, which is believing the bible without verification and not opting to believing any thing I say because I did not verify despite this whole thread is actually about not believing anything you have personally not verified.

I'm only In conversation with you on this thread because you said that the bible supports your ideas

Yes, Paul mentioned being caught up in the third heaven which is only possible without the body. The Bible further said "God is spirit, and those who must come to him must come in spirit...". I think these are clear for anyone to see. But you can see yet you see not.

which I've proved you wrong..

So just rest.

Yea, you did prove me wrong in a way only you can.

chieveboy:
Yes, we are able to think it because it exists.

How did those thoughts exist in the first place, did God created them? Including the negative thoughts?

I tried to explain how in my recent response to Michael. Right now, we are all swimming in another city, place and Space. This is not even the Astral dimension o, not to talk of the Mental.

Are you refering to what is called the earth plane?

Mentions radio stations and time I can tune in listen to eckankar programmes.

justlove91:
How did those thoughts exist in the first place, did God created them? Including the negative thoughts?

Yes.

Are you refering to what is called the earth plane?

Yes. I am saying Abuja for instance dovetails into another city and exists in same physical location. One is vibrating higher, making it possible for the two cities to seemingly exist in the same place.



Mentions radio stations and time I can tune in listen to eckankar programmes.[/quote]TV PROGRAM

Theme:
How to Find God

Tv station :
1.DSTV Channel 258

Saturdays 8:30pm to 9pm Nigerian Time.
I will share that of the radio programs when I get one please. Thanks