₦airaland Forum

Sand2022:
It doesn't work that way. This research is mine. I didn't copy it. I've made it my own. However, I am open to change if there is scriptural proof.

Emusan:
The unscriptural point it that Holy spirit isn't a person.

The Holy spirit is a person and He Knows the Very Mind of God reason why you want it to be PERSONIFICATION.

When Jesus was discussing with people and told them "ONLY THE FATHER KNOWS" the same Disciples later confess that Jesus ACTUALLY KNOWS ALL THINGS.

So, you having problem to understand Jesus shouldn't be anybody's fault.

Jesus disciples in whom Jesus made that statement in their presence know more than you that is why they confess that OUR MASTER AND LORD KNOWS ALL THINGS. John 16:30

The next lie will be how ALL THINGS in that verse should be limited to something something

Barristter07:
[i]I can forgive the disciples for limited understanding,

but making Jesus a Liar to push an agenda is unacceptable.

Even more embarrassing is the Fact that Jesus is the closest person to the Father in the universe, If he doesn't know the day and hour, how could anyone else know?

This alone renders the whole holy spirit is a person thing in the gutters.

Unless you want to imply holy spirit is the closest person to the Father over Jesus.

Emusan:
Can you imagine the nonsense.

You want to forgive the Disciples when they made that statement in the PRESENCE of Jesus.

You're the one making Jesus to be a liar.

At least you didn't disagree that Jesus DIDN'T KNOW ALL THINGS ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURE.

Jesus emphatically said The son, himself doesn't know the day and hour. Are you now implying Jesus lied ?

I have said it times without number, Jesus didn't lie and the disciples who heard Jesus making that statement still BELIEVE JESUS KNOWS ALL THINGS, so the only issue here is YOU WHO FAILED TO UNDERSTAND JESUS.

Even more embarrassing is the Fact that Jesus is the closest person to the Father in the universe, If he doesn't know the day and hour, how could anyone else know?

The Holy spirit WHO KNOWS THE VERY MIND OF GOD and all the THREE PERSONS OF THE TRINITY ARE INSEPARABLE.

This alone renders the whole holy spirit is a person thing in the gutters.

Your philosophy not the scripture.

The scripture is very clear Holy spirit is a PERSON:

What makes one to be a person:
1. Ability to know
2. Self consciousness
3. Having mind.

According to the scripture show me how The Holy spirit lacks any one of this.

Unless you want to imply holy spirit is the closest person to the Father over Jesus.

You see the reason you keep jumping around.
From personification to blablabla


The Holy Spirit KNOWS the very mind of God, you don't need any dictionary to understand this means He is very CLOSE TO THE PERSON.

Lastly, all the THREE PERSON are inseparable.

Read scripture for yourself.

Barristter07:
@bolded. Therefore only the Father knows, the Son doesn't know the day and hour.

No person knows the Father that deep except the Son. The son on the other hand doesn't know the day and hour, No other person can know. To claim holy spirit know what the son doesn't know is to make another person nore closer to the Father of course, unless holy spirit here is not a person, then it makes sense

Emusan:
And The Holy Spirit knows the VERY MIND OF GOD.

The Sin also KNOWS ALL THINGS.

These are scriptural facts.

Funny enough how you people speak for the scripture.

THE HOLY SPIRIT KNOWS THE VERY MIND OF GOD, what does that tell you?


The SON KNOWS ALL THINGS.

So, you're the one who doesn't understand Jesus, His disciples understood Him very well and they later concluded that Jesus knows ALL THINGS.

Barristter07:
It's a scriptural Fact that Nobody knows the Father like Jesus do. So how could holy spirit know what Jesus doesn't know? Not possible. Unless we are not discussing a person here

' The son doesn't know, but only the Father ' Matthew 24:36

Emusan:
The Holy Spirit knows the Very MIND OF GOD even THE DEEP THINK

This shows that the Three persons of the Holy Trinity knows EVERYTHING.
And the Son KNOWS ALL THINGS according to those Jesus spoke in their presence and Jesus didn't rebuke them.

Definitely, you're the one missing something.

Barristter07:
'The son doesn't know the day and hour , only the Father ' - Matthew 24:36

No other person can know what Jesus doesn't know.

Kingsempires:
good evening all

Emusan:
But the Son knows ALL THINGS

The Holy Spirit know the very MIND OF GOD even the DEEP THINGS

And the greatest surprises, The Holy spirit knows THE THOUGHT OF GOD.

Do you understand what it means to know someone's THOUGHT?

Barristter07:
He said he doesn't, neither do you and I

@ 1John 2:20 we are said to know all things, does that mean we know the day and hour ? No. Jesus statement at Matthew 24:36 clarifies that Nobody knows the day and hour except the Father.

This person knows the Father much more than Jesus who doesn't know ? Is Matthew 11:27 a joke to you : Nobody can know what Jesus doesn't know. So if the holy spirit is said to have access to thoughts that Jesus doesn't have , clearly a force from the Father is being personified. It CANNOT BE A PERSON, as No Person could have such access which Jesus doesn't.

Emusan:
But Jesus KNOWS ALL THINGS and Him and the Father ARE ONE.

Here in other to use Jesus statement 'I and my Father are One'

People like interpret that to mean Jesus and His Father are one both in THOUGHT AND ACTION.



Yes! We know ALL THINGS concerning the TRUTH of the Gospel which is what the verse is addressing

The Holy Holy Spirit is a person and Know the very THOUGHT OF GOD.

To think inanimate things KNOWS the THOUGHT of your god is the greatest inappropriate statement about God, well The Great Yahweh can't be so low that inanimate things will KNOW his THOUGHT

Jozzy4:
"Concerning "

Now that Concerning has join the league, concerning the day and hour, did the Son know ? Noooooooo!

Which means no other person can know!!!!

Spirit/breath of man is a force yet it was said to know the thoughts of a man. No difference here.

cc: Barristter07

Emusan:
But Jesus KNOWS ALL THINGS and Him and the Father ARE ONE.
Here in other to use Jesus statement 'I and my Father are One'
People like interpret that to mean Jesus and His Father are one both in THOUGHT AND ACTION.
Yes! We know ALL THINGS concerning the TRUTH of the Gospel which is what the verse is addressing
The Holy Holy Spirit is a person and Know the very THOUGHT OF GOD.

To think inanimate things KNOWS the THOUGHT of your god is the greatest inappropriate statement about God, well The Great Yahweh can't be so low that inanimate things will KNOW his THOUGHT

Barristter07:
@highlighted, Using Jesus statement - The Son doesn't know the day and hour. Matt 24:36

That's the simple truth. And the implication of this is that nobody else could know.

Which automatically render the holy spirit is a person invalid.

Since no one else could know what the son doesn't know.

Rather it's a Force from the Father been personified the exact same way a man's spirit is personified

Emusan:
I'm reference you people's hypocrisy.

Jesus is ONE with the Father in action and THOUGHT.
No! Jesus knows ALL THINGS.

That is the fact.

Not when the scripture FULLY supported Holy spirit to be a person.

You think your philosophy can just overwrite God's word
The Son KNOWS ALL THINGS

The Holy spirit not only KNOWS THE DEEP THINGS ABOUT GOD BUT ALSO KNOWSNTHE VERY THOUGHT OF GOD.

Only a person with conscious MIND can knows someone's THOUGHT.
You have been looking for that word PERSONIFIED since which didn't sell

A FORCE CAN'T know THE THOUGHT OF another person.

Holy Spirit have MIND, He is conscious!

Barristter07:
it's sad at the point you find yourself , clutching to the words of imperfect apostles who often make mistakes against the Fact expressed by Jesus himself that he doesn't know. It's sad to witness, really sad.

Matthew 24:36 is the Fact. Jesus doesn't know the day and hour , right from his own mouth.

No other person can know.

And regarding the personification, man's spirit was personified in the same manner, we know it's not a person.

Man's spirit is his breath which return figuratively to God at death. Because if it were literal person, it means everybody goes to heaven since God is in heaven.

And it would mean Jesus himself return to heaven the same day he died. Which isn't true.

Emusan:
Smile....

You people are just too dull for scriptural knowledge.

Let me use your own NWT to explain to you maybe it will sink this time.

Here is how your NWT put John 16:30 "Now we know that you KNOW ALL THINGS+ and you do not need to have anyone question you.+ By this we believe that you came out from God.”

The plus sign is a reference to John 21:17 where Peter used the same ALL THINGS for Jesus Christ about KNOWING.

But let's see how your NWT translates 1 John 2:20 "And YOU have an anointing* from the holy one;+ all of YOU have knowledge."

If you check other translations some use:
"know the truth"

"all of you understand"

"you all have knowledge"

But compare this to Jesus Christ and see that they all translate it as ALL THINGS OR EVERYTHING

Do you agree with NWT that the followers only HAVE KNOWLEDGE?




No! Man's spirit is a PERSON too that is why the word 'KNOW' was used, inanimate object can't KNOW YOUR THOUGHT.

So, God's Holy Spirit is also a PERSON.

Just agree that inanimate things knows the THOUGHT of your god

Jozzy4:
A good bible translation could use their judgement in certain matters, it doesn't change the Fact that the Greek word that appeared at 1John 2:20 means all things. Like someone said that it's sad to watch you cling desperately to apostles utterance when Christ already specified he doesn't know certain things. The same way NWT and other translation use their judgement, is the same way you ought to use your judgement to know the apostles statement is made in error since Jesus confirmed there are things the Son doesn't know. If the apostles statement is Correct, Jesus is a liar at Matthew 24:36

Emusan:
Can you imagine this liar!

That statement was made IN THE PRESENCE OF JESUS Christ

If there was an ERROR Jesus would have corrected them ;

See the way he wants to dismiss the Apostles TESTIMONY IN THE PRESENCE OF JESUS HIMSELF, this shows you're a very dishonest person.

You're the one who made it PERSONIFIED for your dubious reasons.

Only a PERSON KNOWS THE THOUGHT OF ANOTHER PERSON.

No inanimate object can.
I will take you serious if you can provide where Scripture used FIGURATIVE.
Remove FIGURATIVE from your head and see the clear picture.
No inanimate object can KNOW someone's THOUGHT

prove that wrong first before you begin your diversion.

Emusan:
Now, he is changing mouth

The point is clear no further going around.

Using style to call the Apostles LIAR when that statement was made in THE PRESENCE OF JESUS HIMSELF.

Barristter07:
Jesus already dismiss it at Matthew 24:36 , unless we agree Jesus is lying anyway . you are not smart

Anything Jesus doesn't know, nobody else can know. Which renders holy spirit knowing mind of God as a force from God. This Fact stands as long as Matthew 24:36 is Truth

Spirit of man isn't a person that return to God in heaven when a man dies.

Father into your hands I commit my spirit.

Several days later , the same Jesus said ' I have not yet ascended to my God and Father '

So didn't his spirit ascend to heaven? That is why my use of figurative is valid.

Proving spirit of man isn't a person, it's a Force that was given the ability to know. Same as holy spirit.

Emusan:
Liar!

Which dismissed.

Force can't KNOWS someone's THOUGHT
How dull are you?



The spirit of Man is a person.



Your FIGURATIVE is the nonsense you packed into your head.

Jesus message to Mary is about FINAL ascending.



Spirit of man is a PERSON.

no inanimate object can KNOW someone's THOUGHT.

Barristter07:


Yeye dey smell..

Abeg I don tire to laugh.

Go cut Matthew 24:36 out of your bible.

Wetin be this ? @bold



Initial ascending and final ascending, at least if he don ascend to God by virtue of his spirit e no suppose dey lie again say he is yet to ascend na.

Emusan:
Smile.....
You be be the one to remove both John 16:30 and John 21:17 from your Bible

Mary was not there at the first ascending when he died.

Jesus just doesn't want Mary to stay long with him in that place.

Meaning you'll still see me I'm not leaving you forever for NOW.

Very simple understanding.

achorladey:
He does not understand leaving goes beyond the trinity belief.

While I got to start investigating that religious organization, my research led me to one serious conclusion that anyone who wants to leave or plan to leave that religious must ensure he is not married to one of Jehovah's Witnesses because

1. They could easily use the wife to blackmail the husband leaving.

2. The pressure of families connected with that marriage will be crazy

3. The threat to the person's family as a whole.

4. If your business is built around the families connected, brace up for collapse, if not total collapse.

Sand2022:
Those your numbered points are true. You just get trapped by all that. The fact is, you may lose your family and friends if you leave. It is a sad reality but this is what I am preparing for before I throw in the towel cos my wife may leave and I will be alone. I don't pray it will be so, but I just need to prepare. This is in fact a control group and you don't expect anything less.

I will leave, Jesus didn't say it will be easy to follow him. So I am not surprised. But I just need to prepare before that. It will not be easy for me really. Jesus didn't say it would anyway.

Emusan:
Now, he is changing mouth

The point is clear no further going around.

Using style to call the Apostles LIAR when that statement was made in THE PRESENCE OF JESUS HIMSELF.

Barristter07:
Both are from imperfect apostles. The Perfect one has spoken at Matthew 24:36

I am yet to ascend to my God.

E never go to God oooo,

Jozzy4:
You admitted its Jesus that lied ?