₦airaland Forum

Only the truth can break our bonds

StillDtruth:
This was your answer when i said "off point"

Ubenedictus:
the prayer for forgiveness at the beginning of mass does not make a person a practicing Catholic

Which i answered
Off point! No one said it does.

I honestly hate dishonest people.



This was your question

Does it mean God did not hear our prayers for mercy? (at the begining of the mass or during the mass or the one just before the communion is given)

This was my response



the bible actually says God does not hear the prayers of sinners. That is why the Catholic church will tell you that the penitential rite is for minor failings like venial sin and for venial sin you should use the sacrament of confession.

However if you have perfect contrition for all your sins then the word of God applies "A broken and contrite heart o God you will not spurn". In such a case all your sins are forgiven even at the penitential rite.




Now tell me what part of the response you didn't understand

Ubenedictus:
I honestly hate dishonest people.



This was your question

Does it mean God did not hear our prayers for mercy? (at the begining of the mass or during the mass or the one just before the communion is given)

This was my response



the bible actually says God does not hear the prayers of sinners. That is why the Catholic church will tell you that the penitential rite is for minor failings like venial sin and for venial sin you should use the sacrament of confession.

However if you have perfect contrition for all your sins then the word of God applies "A broken and contrite heart o God you will not spurn". In such a case all your sins are forgiven even at the penitential rite.




Now tell me what part of the response you didn't understand

Brother trying to explain away the point through the doctrines of venial sin or mortal sin is not the issue.
What the writer is saying is that, irrespective of the sin type, every sincere person in that congregation had asked for God's mercy several times during the mass before the liturgy of the communion. Yet, we see many of us Catholics sitting down on the pew during the communion because they felt God has not heard their prayer for mercy.

Except you're not being sincere, all you need is look around you during the mass and see a host of Catholics, who should've matched to the altar to receive the communion, on their seats during communion. Yesterday at the mass I looked around and saw many, even some of them church wardens depriving themselves the body of Christ because of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:16
[16]Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Where else can we find mercy if not on the altar of the communion? Why run away in your sins when Jesus says COME BOLDLY that you may find grace and mercy. Again, Jesus says, come unto me all you who labour and are heavy laden (the burden of sin) and I will give you rest.

At one point, Peter asked Jesus, how many times should I forgive should my brother offend me? Jesus replied, seventy times seven times ( all in a day). I don't believe God who commanded us to forgive will not forgive one who had asked for mercy several times during the mass.

I'm not trying to convince you, all I'm saying is take a minute and look around you during the mass: you might even find members of your family/relative/friends sitting on the pew during communion. Do the latter and revert with your feedback.

Share this article with a friend

Ubenedictus:
I honestly hate dishonest people.

This was your question

Does it mean God did not hear our prayers for mercy? (at the begining of the mass or during the mass or the one just before the communion is given)

This was my response

the bible actually says [b]God does not hear the prayers of sinners. That is why the Catholic church will tell you that the penitential rite is for minor failings like venial sin and for venial sin you should use the sacrament of confession.

However if you have perfect contrition for all your sins then the word of God applies "A broken and contrite heart o God you will not spurn". In such a case all your sins are forgiven even at the penitential rite.[/b]

Now tell me what part of the response you didn't understand

And my response was "off point" i just broke my responses to point out the fact that i read through your answer and it did not address the question.

We all know that God will not answer sinners which is why we pray for mercy and forgiveness at the beginning and during the mass which leads to the question 1) "Does it mean God did not hear our prayers for mercy? (at the begining of the mass or during the mass or the one just before the communion is given) which you did not answer.

Let's share this article

StillDtruth:
See you are studying church instead of studying God. For if you have studied God, you would see that He never changes and

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

So, no catholic, jw, pentecostal, muslim.etc guilty of unrighteousness like the guilty in the bible will ever ever make it to God's House..

And of course, a thief cannot condemn a thief., that is why you cannot condemn others.

are you serious!!!

Ubenedictus:
.
There is an aunty who was pregnant and is called a virgin. Aunty Mary. You don't seem confused that such an illogical thing is an article of faith in Christianity, you are just confused that God passed through her womb and she remained a virgin? That is the one confusing you?


There is no single passage you presented that claims Mary had other children


lol
The Israelites too were Boeing down in front of a temple that had images. I guess they too were idolaters





The issue is simple bowing down before something or someone that isn't God does not automatically mean idolatry. One may bow before the mace in the national assembly, ever heard "take a bow" the mace is not an idol, Bowing is not idolatry, the mace represents something and the Bowing is showing respect to what it represents.
It's funny since this heresy that any image one bows to is idolatry was condemned by the entire Christian church in the 8th century. Some protestants just like repeating old heresies.
..

God's promise it to his church, he said the gates of hell will never prevail against it. Any protestant who claims that the historical Christian church fell into heresy is calling God a liar, to claim that the devil prevailed against the Catholic church is to call God a liar



it seem you don't even know what a fallacy is. You are just talking like a child. If you claim that any church that has sinners has failed, then your own church has failed and even the church of Jesus and the 12 apostles was a failure since Judas was there. That shows that your premise is incorrect because it leads to untenable and nonsensical conclusions.






Sorry bro, there is no provision in scripture where you are allowed to leave the church Jesus and the apostles founded and found a new church. Whether you are a judaiser, like in the time of Paul, or you are a gnostic like in the 2nd century or and Arian like the JW or a protestant like you. The word of God is clear to cause fraction in the church so you can go start your own group is a sin. You pastor did it and the biblical judgement is that those who do such will not enter the kingdom of God.




Lol, I'm laughing because Ola is your source for this nonsense.

Each of the teachings above are clearly Christian teaching. If you don't believe them it is probably because you are in one of those factions that the apostle Paul condemned.

you made beautiful point.are you a catechist

Brothers. Let think about those points the writer highlighted

Ubenedictus:
.
There is an aunty who was pregnant and is called a virgin. Aunty Mary. You don't seem confused that such an illogical thing is an article of faith in Christianity, you are just confused that God passed through her womb and she remained a virgin? That is the one confusing you?

Nothing illogocal here. Aunty Mary was not penetrated hence her virginty but child birth removes virginity.

Ubenedictus:
There is no single passage you presented that claims Mary had other children

See now you are blatantly lying and being fraudulent for i showed you Matthew 13:55-56 proving that you catholics are liars.

Ubenedictus:
The Israelites too were Boeing down in front of a temple that had images. I guess they too were idolaters

So, now you confess that just like isreal,you people are idolaters.

And obviously, you did not see that God called them idolaters and punished them greatly!

Ubenedictus:
God's promise it to his church, he said ..

Off point.
We are talking about David's wrong doing and God leaving him and not about God's promises..

Ubenedictus:
it seem you don't even know what a fallacy is. You are just talking like a child. If you claim that any church that has sinners has failed, then your own church has failed and ...

If you knew what a fallacy is you would know that fallacy of reversing the burden of proof is a fallacy

What is the burden of proof fallacy?
This logical fallacy involves incorrectly shifting the burden of proof from the person making a claim to the person who is skeptical of that claim

And the truth is you know it but because you see you cannot answer, you therefore wish to deceitfully pretend not to know that you are committing a fallacy with your invalid response.

Ubenedictus:
Sorry bro, there is no provision in scripture where you are allowed to leave the church Jesus and the apostles founded and found a new church.

Clearly, you did not read "follow not the multitude to do evil, nor do not keep company with workers of iniquity.

The church Christ made is an Holy and Righteous church and that is definitely not catholic church a place of idolatry, fornications, adulteries, paedophillia, homesexuality, Lies, deceits, witchcraft etc.

Ubenedictus:
Lol, I'm laughing because Ola is your source for this nonsense.

Each of the teachings above are clearly Christian teaching. If you don't believe them it is probably because you are in one of those factions that the apostle Paul condemned.

See it. Every reasonable person can see that Ola went through the trouble of listing them down while i just simply copied and re presented it here but here you are evilly twisting and turning it to something bad.

That aside, exactly like jws, you too claim all your lies are in the bible whereas no where in the bible did it say for example
1The Catholic Church is the one true church (CCC 2105),
2) Infallibility of the Catholic Church, (CCC 2035),
3) Only the Roman Catholic Church has authority to interpret Scripture ...

But, like jws,you just have to attach your lies to the bible.

People please don't veer off from the point

[quote author=ocnovakmichael post=131810778]

Brother trying to explain away the point through the doctrines of venial sin or mortal sin is not the issue.
What the writer is saying is that, irrespective of the sin type, every sincere person in that congregation had asked for God's mercy several times during the mass before the liturgy of the communion. Yet, we see many of us Catholics sitting down on the pew during the communion because they felt God has not heard their prayer for mercy.

Again I think you should read my post again. The difference between mortal and venial sin is not used to "explain away" the issue. It is a solid point that the Catholic church teaches clearly.

Anyone who have venial sins will know clearly that his sins are forgiven simply by the penitential rites of the mass. That is why any Catholic who had evil or angry thought doesn't think 2ice to go and receive because he knows that his sins are forgiven right at the beginning of mass.

However there are sins that the bible talks about very harshly.
This is why heb 10 say Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.

Those are deliberate, well planned sins even after knowing very well that they are sinful. The is what the Catholic church will say, full knowledge, free consent and action. The bible says for those kinds of sins we should not presume that they are covered.
This is the reason why the Catholic church advices confessions because the bible also says in John that Jesus gave his apostles the power to declare all sins forgiven when he said, whatsoever sins you forgive are forgiven, whatsoever sins you retain are retained

This is the ordinary way in which Catholics deal with sins that are grave and deliberate after they are already Christians because the bible talks about such sins in a particular kind of way.


However

If a person has truly come to hate that sin he committed because he now has in his heart a true love for God and has decided in his heart to have no link whatsoever to that sin again...(This is called perfect contrition, the bible says a contrite spirit of God you will not spurn)...then his sins are forgiven right there and then even at that mass even before ever going for confession. Such a person can receive communion even if he didn't go for confession yet. Do you understand this?

You can't say I am working on the sin of fornication and my girlfriend is in my house right now and because I said sorry at mass I will go for communion. No the Catholic church says you need a perfect contrition. It must be that you now hat that sin and immediately you get home you are offloading you girlfriend and telling her that the relationship will no longer be sexual. If that is what you have in mind when you were saying sorry to God, the Catholic church says you can go and receive.

What keeps a person seated during communion is not the church (unless the person isn't Catholic), it is whether or not he has forsaken his sin and has perfect contrition. If he has he can receive communion that very mass before confession. If he hasn't then it is better he remains in his seat for there is no sacrifice for those who intend to continue sinning deliberately.

Except you're not being sincere, all you need is look around you during the mass and see a host of Catholics, who should've matched to the altar to receive the communion, on their seats during communion. Yesterday at the mass I looked around and saw many, even some of them church wardens depriving themselves the body of Christ because of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:16
[16]Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Where else can we find mercy if not on the altar of the communion? Why run away in your sins when Jesus says COME BOLDLY that you may find grace and mercy. Again, Jesus says, come unto me all you who labour and are heavy laden (the burden of sin) and I will give you rest.

At one point, Peter asked Jesus, how many times should I forgive should my brother offend me? Jesus replied, seventy times seven times ( all in a day). I don't believe God who commanded us to forgive will not forgive one who had asked for mercy several times during the mass.

I'm not trying to convince you, all I'm saying is take a minute and look around you during the mass: you might even find members of your family/relative/friends sitting on the pew during communion. Do the latter and revert with your feedback.

After quoting that passage remember

Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.


If they intend to continue to deliberately sin, they should not come forward. Paul is clear in Corinthians that such a person will eat condemnation upon himself. It doesn't matter how boldly you approach the throne, if you are not contrite and you are not intending to hate and forsake that mortal sin, you have not received the clear to come forward, Paul is very clear that you must examine yourself if you you'll eat condemnation

StillDtruth:
And my response was "off point" i just broke my responses to point out the fact that i read through your answer and it did not address the question.

We all know that God will not answer sinners which is why we pray for mercy and forgiveness at the beginning and during the mass which leads to the question 1) "Does it mean God did not hear our prayers for mercy? (at the begining of the mass or during the mass or the one just before the communion is given) which you did not answer.

Do you know the prerequisite for a prayer for mercy?


Maybe my long response was too long for you, let me make it short.

What do you need to come with to ask God for mercy?



And how do you understand this passage?


Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.

Ubenedictus:
Do you know the prerequisite for a prayer for mercy?


Maybe my long response was too long for you, let me make it short.

What do you need to come with to ask God for mercy?



And how do you understand this passage?


Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.

Why are you misquoting scripture?

That verse is speaking to those who have trample down Jesus as the Son of God. Those who deliberately reject Jesus outrightly.

A man in church asking God for mercy have not rejected Jesus outrightly, his sins notwithstanding.

My question to you is this: since you accepted Jesus as Lord, have you sinned deliberately? Should we put you in that category of verse you highlighted?

What is even your name? What church do you attend? Who is your priest? Are you sure you understand what is being taught in church or you just want to bring up scriptural and doctrinal precedence with no context?

Please call me on 08138220012 let's talk/chat because you're missing it!

I'm expecting your call ASAP

Ubenedictus:
Do you know the prerequisite for a prayer for mercy?


Maybe my long response was too long for you, let me make it short.

What do you need to come with to ask God for mercy?

And how do you understand this passage?


Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.

Still off Point. I am not asking nor saying i know the prerequisite for a prayer for mercy Or What do i need to come with to ask God for mercy?

That is not the question asked.

The question is
1) "Does it mean God did not hear our prayers for mercy? (at the begining of the mass or during the mass or the one just before the communion is given)

And

2) Does it mean God hears only the confessions we make before the Priest?"

Clearly, these past weeks, you are not able to directly answer these questions, so leave it.

Let's share this article

Please let's share this article

Please this summation @ the bolded is very wrong.

According to the Catholic catechesis, There's what we call mortal sins (fornication, adultery, homosexuality, murder, abortion etc.). And what is called venial sins( anger, small lie, stealing meat from the pot,, arrogance, grudge, malice etc).

If someone has committed a mortal sin and failed to go to confession before the Holy Mass. He/ She can not receive the Holy Communion at all, until when he or she goes for confession and does his/her penance. You can not be in a state of mortal sin and say you want to go and receive Holy Communion, that you will go for confessions later. It's a Capital No!

@Op, the announcement serves as an admonition to people who are in a state of mortal sin not to come for the Holy Communion.

But, if you have committed venial sin, and didn't go to confession before the Mass, and joined in the Holy Mass, confessed those sins with sincere contrition during the Holy Mass, and received the absolution from the Priest during the Holy Mass, you can receive the Holy Communion and later you can go to confession.

And finally, not being a confirmed Catholic (Not receiving the Sacrament of Confirmation if that what you meant) doesn't stop one from receiving the Holy Communion. So long as you're baptized in the Catholic faith, still within the Catholic faith, went for catechism and received First Holy Communion and you do not have any impediment according to The churches doctrine and are in a state of Grace, you can receive the Holy Communion. Not being confirmed or receiving the Sacrament of Confirmation does not prevent you from receiving the Holy Communion.

@ Op, The Church knows what She's doing and can never mislead you, because The Holy Church is lead by the Holy Spirit.
Gracias.

immortalcrown:
The spiritual preparation includes but is not only the confession.

The spiritual preparation is by Catholics who are baptized and confirmed. Confession and celebration of the Holy Mass by baptized and confirmed Catholics are the preparation mentioned in the announcement. The announcement does not mean that someone who went for confession should not receive the holy communion.

The announcement simply means that the holy communion is for baptized and confirmed Catholics who went for confession participated in the celebration of the Holy Mass. As a matter of fact, a baptized and confirmed Catholic who could not go for confession before the celebration of the Holy Mass can receive the holy communion and go for confession after the Mass.

Lol ! You should be the one calling him so you can receive honest counsel from him if you're open minded because obviously you're the one missing the track.
God blessings.

ocnovakmichael:
Why are you misquoting scripture?

That verse is speaking to those who have trample down Jesus as the Son of God. Those who deliberately reject Jesus outrightly.

A man in church asking God for mercy have not rejected Jesus outrightly, his sins notwithstanding.

My question to you is this: since you accepted Jesus as Lord, have you sinned deliberately? Should we put you in that category of verse you highlighted?

What is even your name? What church do you attend? Who is your priest? Are you sure you understand what is being taught in church or you just want to bring up scriptural and doctrinal precedence with no context?

Please call me on 08138220012 let's talk/chat because you're missing it!

I'm expecting your call ASAP

AllLovingGod:
Lol ! You should be the one calling him so you can receive honest counsel from him if you're open minded because obviously you're the one missing the track.
God blessings.

I guess his catholic faith is dieing

Kingsempires:
I guess his catholic faith is dieing

Brother, I see your point. But At the mass yesterday, are there some good Catholics that didn't receive the communion during the mass?

AllLovingGod:
Please this summation @ the bolded is very wrong.

And finally, not being a confirmed Catholic (Not receiving the Sacrament of Confirmation if that what you meant) doesn't stop one from receiving the Holy Communion. So long as you're baptized in the Catholic faith, still within the Catholic faith, went for catechism and received First Holy Communion and you do not have any impediment according to The churches doctrine and are in a state of Grace, you can receive the Holy Communion. Not being confirmed or receiving the Sacrament of Confirmation does not prevent you from receiving the Holy Communion.

@ Op, The Church knows what She's doing and can never mislead you, because The Holy Church is lead by the Holy Spirit.
Gracias.

See, this is clearly a Lie for church's doctrine and The Holy Spirit are contradictory exactly like man's way and God's Way is.

AllLovingGod:
Please this summation @ the bolded is very wrong.

According to the Catholic catechesis, There's what we call mortal sins (fornication, adultery, homosexuality, murder, abortion etc.). And what is called venial sins( anger, small lie, stealing meat from the pot,, arrogance, grudge, malice etc).

If someone has committed a mortal sin and failed to go to confession before the Holy Mass. He/ She can not receive the Holy Communion at all, until when he or she goes for confession and does his/her penance. You can not be in a state of mortal sin and say you want to go and receive Holy Communion, that you will go for confessions later. It's a Capital No!

@Op, the announcement serves as an admonition to people who are in a state of mortal sin not to come for the Holy Communion.

But, if you have committed venial sin, and didn't go to confession before the Mass, and joined in the Holy Mass, confessed those sins with sincere contrition during the Holy Mass, and received the absolution from the Priest during the Holy Mass, you can receive the Holy Communion and later you can go to confession.

And finally, not being a confirmed Catholic (Not receiving the Sacrament of Confirmation if that what you meant) doesn't stop one from receiving the Holy Communion. So long as you're baptized in the Catholic faith, still within the Catholic faith, went for catechism and received First Holy Communion and you do not have any impediment according to The churches doctrine and are in a state of Grace, you can receive the Holy Communion. Not being confirmed or receiving the Sacrament of Confirmation does not prevent you from receiving the Holy Communion.

@ Op, The Church knows what She's doing and can never mislead you, because The Holy Church is lead by the Holy Spirit.
Gracias.

Thanks for the clarification.

StillDtruth:
See, this is clearly a Lie for church's doctrine and The Holy Spirit are contradictory exactly like man's way and God's Way is.

sometimes you have to be careful before all this protestants will turn you away from your faith

Kingsempires:
sometimes you have to be careful before all this protestants will turn you away from your faith

No one can turn me away from my faith.

StillDtruth:
No one can turn me away from my faith.

ABI,No one can turn me away from my faith. So if no one can turn you from your faith then;

why do you like condemning your fellow christian faith

2) why did you like condemning your fellow christian church


No one can turn me away from my faith. Dey stop finding church that is lieing and not lieing you want to comvese people to All agree with you then other believes has error.


Men!!! There are mulsim, atheist,pagan everywhere why don't you go and preach to them than finding satanic or non-satanic church that you will be discriminating

Kingsempires:
ABI,No one can turn me away from my faith. So if no one can turn you from your faith then;

why do you like condemning your fellow christian faith

2) why did you like condemning your fellow christian church

No one can turn me away from my faith. Dey stop finding church that is lieing and not lieing you want to comvese people to All agree with you then other believes has error.

Men!!! There are mulsim, atheist,pagan everywhere why don't you go and preach to them than finding satanic or non-satanic church that you will be discriminating

Every wrong thing brings condemnation no matter who the wrongdoer maybe.

StillDtruth:
Every wrong thing brings condemnation no matter who the wrongdoer maybe.

so my question for you is are people who don't have one though of Christianity with you wrongdoers?

Kingsempires:
so my question for you is are people who don't have one though of Christianity with you wrongdoers?

The people in these threads have answered you

https://www.nairaland.com/8209885/three-men-accused-killing-women#131944940

https://www.nairaland.com/8209716/man-inserts-scissors-spoon-8-year-old#131941097

Share this article

Share this article

Share this with friends