If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. - Christianity Etc (5) - Nairaland
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| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by honesttalk21: 7:49am On Oct 12, 2024 |
MaxInDHouse:At what age did God first speak with Abraham or start to establish any covenant with him? Where was this your view of integrity keeping when he went into Hagar? Was he specifically blamed for this by God in the biblical scripture? NO God was simply telling more about the scope of his covenant. It was not over with the birth of Ishmael. Sadly you seem fixed at a competition between Isaac and Ishmael which doesn't exist. They are both honoured men and prophets of God. They were not in the picture yet an angel clearly delivered a message to Hagar? Please you can do much better in reasoning. There are scanty reports about Ishmael and his descendants in the Bible because it focuses on the lineage of Isaac and the Israelite people. Sadly you are the one getting emotional here. When you consider the story about Esau in your Bible and his accomplishments at age 15 you have a good idea of how able Ishmael will have been at the time of his departure. Job’s trials begin when God allows Satan to test him. The premise to this is that Satan challenges God’s assertion that Job is a faithful servant. Satan argues that Job only worships God because he has been blessed with prosperity and protection. Thus, the central question arises: Is Job’s faith genuine, or is it merely a response to his circumstances? This challenge sets the stage for an exploration of true worship—worship that persists regardless of one’s situation. Could the absence of these things stop Job from worshipping the true and real God? idolatry and polytheism are acts that divert believers from true worship directed at a singular divine entity. Indeed you show your privileged pampering expecting every thing to be specifically written out. What use is the intellect bestowed on mankind? Ishmael, the son of Abraham and Hagar, lived a life filled with both privilege and hardship before he was banished with his mother into the wilderness. As the son of Abraham, Ishmael would have been given the best education and training available at the time. He would have learned the ways of his father's people |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by honesttalk21: 8:58am On Oct 12, 2024 |
In the wilderness where the angel of God appears to Hagar and delivers a powerful message. The angel comforts Hagar, telling her not to fear and promising that Ishmael will also become the father of a great nation. This message is a reassurance to Hagar that despite their difficult circumstances, God has not abandoned them and that Ishmael has a special role in God's plan.The covenant between God and Abraham is extended to Ishmael through this message, demonstrating the inclusivity and compassion of God's love. Ishmael is not forgotten or forsaken, but rather, he is an integral part of the divine plan for humanity. |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 9:13am On Oct 12, 2024 |
honesttalk21:That's the culture of people around them so he believes God can make it possible through another means not until God told him Ishmael is not the promised child! Genesis 17:18-21 honesttalk21:That's what your Quran says but from what the Bible says neither Abraham, Isaac or Ishmael is a prophet. ![]() honesttalk21:So because an angel spoke to Hagar that makes her and her child part of the covenant? You're really making this a joke because angels spoke to many people in the Bible who aren't part of the covenant to establish pure worship. honesttalk21:Why is it that all the prophets you people focus on are from the lineage of Isaac and none from Ishmael? Which Tirah was written by any prophet that's born from the lineage of Ishmael? Moses, David and Jesus were all from the lineage of Isaac and funny enough you people acknowledged that your Allah sent those Tirah through them not until this Muhammad claims he is part of the plan! ![]() honesttalk21:Esau is no part of the covenant as he despised the covenant. honesttalk21:As at that time there was no form of worship established as true and false except integrity keeping. honesttalk21:Abraham has eight sons only Isaac continued with the covenant the rest were left out! |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by honesttalk21: 10:41am On Oct 12, 2024 |
MaxInDHouse:I implore you to look at the beginning of Genesis 17:21in the Hebrew language in which it was more likely first recorded. Analyzing the use of the Hebrew word transliterated as ve'et- in Genesis 17:21 reveals that it serves more to affirm God’s promise to Isaac without excluding Ishmael from consideration. The linguistic structure supports an understanding that both sons have roles within God’s overarching plan for humanity. The Hebrew word ve-et in the beginning of Genesis 17:21 does not mean “but” and does not exclude Ishmael from the covenant; instead, it connects ideas and indicates inclusion rather than exclusion. What are Abraham and Isaac in biblical concepts? Aren't they prophets? There is a period of silence in Allah's wisdom between Ishmael and prophet Muhammad pbuh by the design and wisdom of Allah. There surely was a mix of believing and unbelieving people during this time. My reference to Esau is to show you the capability of a 15 year old in that era? Do you not understand that? In ancient near Eastern societies, including those contemporary s with the time of Job, polytheism was prevalent. Various cultures worshipped multiple deities associated with natural phenomena, fertility, war, and other aspects of life. This polytheistic framework was common among neighboring tribes and nations surrounding Israel, such as the Canaanites, Egyptians, Babylonians, and others. The worship practices often included rituals involving idols or images representing these gods. Will Job not have encountered them considering his vast wealth? Cultures surrounding Job likely engaged in polytheistic practices. The other children through Keturah were biologically related to Abraham and would have been influenced by his faith during his lifetime, there is insufficient detail about them in your Bible to assert definitively that they adhered strictly to his covenant or worshiped God consistently thereafter. The worship pattern of Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah and their descendants reflected a rich tapestry of cultural diversity and religious pluralism. Is the world not constituted of people in religious pluralism today? |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 11:44am On Oct 12, 2024 |
honesttalk21:Only one child continue with the covenant that is why Jacob had it instead of Esau so Ishmael is out of it as God Himself declared though he (Abraham) will have many children the promise will be fulfilled in Isaac there no need twisting this matter! Genesis 17:18-21 ![]() honesttalk21:NO they are not prophets that's the ideology of Muslims once something supernatural occur through a character such a person is a prophet in your own religion that's not what it means to be a prophet in the Bible. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were patriarchs. honesttalk21:That's where your Allah lost it because nobody will believe that it's the same God yet nothing was mentioned between Ishmael to Muhammad in approximately 2,500 years yet there are prophets coming from the lineage of Isaac ACKNOWLEDGED in your Qur'an. Haba, that's a big failure! ![]() honesttalk21:The Bible never said all children back then were as strong as Esau so you got it wrong. honesttalk21:That's why God didn't mention it because they don't have anyone to guide them into pure worship so what God picked from people back then was INTEGRITY! honesttalk21:Even your Quran never mentioned anyone in between Ishmael and your Muhammad despite the claim that he is a descendant of Ishmael so let's leave the case of other children born to Abraham they are not part of the covenant! ![]() |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by honesttalk21: 11:46am On Oct 12, 2024 |
MaxInDHouse:There are about 88 prophets featured or mentioned in the Bible. A prophet is someone who receives revelations from God.
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| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 2:58pm On Oct 12, 2024 |
honesttalk21:NO! A prophet is a person who is inspired to pass message to others so if God spoke to someone but he is not sent to pass the information to others such a person is not a prophet! ![]() |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by honesttalk21: 6:29pm On Oct 12, 2024 |
MaxInDHouse:🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 very funny. Inspiration can be from yourself or other sources other than God. A prophet in the Bible is someone divinely appointed by God to communicate His will to humanity through messages that may include both warnings about present behavior and predictions about future events. A prophet is defined as a person chosen by God to convey His messages to others. Genesis 17:20 Ve’et Yishma’el shamati lekha; hinneh beriti ito, u-minno yitzeh goy gadol And as for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, my covenant is with him, and from him shall come a great nation |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 6:48pm On Oct 12, 2024 |
honesttalk21:Exactly, and neither Abraham, Isaac or Ishmael is sent to deliver any message to their people so they are not prophets! ![]() |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by honesttalk21: 7:04pm On Oct 12, 2024 |
MaxInDHouse:Really? Did Abraham not convey the message of 1. The covenant and establishing the culture of circumcision? 2. Faith and obedient in willingness to sacrifice 3. Did he try to intercede for Sodom and the? Then Isaac Did he not continue the covenant? Did he not listen to God with his people in Genesis 26:2-5? Did he not re dig wells his father dug and instruct these to be dug? Your Bible didn't write much about Ishmael so I wouldn't bother |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 8:55pm On Oct 12, 2024 |
honesttalk21:Neither Abraham, Isaac or Ishmael was sent to deliver any message to people rather they lived and we are reading about them so they are not prophets! |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by honesttalk21: 10:00pm On Oct 12, 2024 |
MaxInDHouse:How do you know about circumcision? Is this not information passed on to you? What is the reason for the circumcision? Is it in line with the covenant? |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 4:14am On Oct 13, 2024 |
honesttalk21:Guy there is a difference between God talking to someone and sending someone a message to deliver to others, the former means God has a dealing with the person while the later means God makes the person a prophet. In your religion Adam is also believed to be a prophet but going by your own definition: honesttalk21:Adam wasn't sent to anyone. Circumcision is a covenant between God and Abraham which extends to the man's descendants that doesn't mean God sent the man to others regarding circumcision nah! God spoke to many individuals in Bible times but if such a person wasn't sent to deliver any message then he or she can't be listed among prophets. ![]() |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by honesttalk21: 6:21am On Oct 13, 2024 |
MaxInDHouse:You see yourself struggling to alter? Was the information about circumcision and the covenant passed on? |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 9:56am On Oct 13, 2024 |
honesttalk21:God didn't send Abraham to me that i must be circumcised nah so he is not my own prophet since he wasn't sent to me. ![]() |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by honesttalk21: 1:22pm On Oct 13, 2024 |
MaxInDHouse:You are however circumcised and or was circumcised by those who did that for/on you which implies conviction of the Abrahamic covenant. Perhaps you have a different reason for your circumcision |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 2:12pm On Oct 13, 2024 |
honesttalk21:Our ancestors do circumcize their males before the white man came to Africa nah! ![]() |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by SIRTee15: 2:18pm On Oct 13, 2024 |
honesttalk21:That's your opinion. The bible made it clear God's covenant is thru Isaac and not Ismail. God himself thru his word disqualified Ishmael. God repeated the same covenant to Isaac and Jacob....exact covenant word for word to emphasise generational lineage of the covenant. That's why YHW is called God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Ishmael is never mentioned. Since U brought up Hagar's encounter with the Angel of the Lord. Did U notice Hagar called the angel God? Hagar said she saw God a d called him El roi- one of the names of God. |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Petalss(m): 2:29pm On Oct 13, 2024 |
MaxInDHouse:But Abraham and Isaac are prophets according to Christian. |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 2:34pm On Oct 13, 2024 |
Petalss:What message were they sent to deliver and to whom? ![]() |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by SIRTee15: 2:41pm On Oct 13, 2024 |
honesttalk21:First Mr African Muslim know your history. Circumcision existed in Africa b4 any Abrahamic religion made contact with the continent. Our ancestors performed circumcision rituals as pagans. There's nothing divine about circumcision. People had been performing circumcision even b4 Abraham. Ancient Egyptians and Polynesians practiced circumcision. A practice such common on earth cannot be a divine covenant from God. 2. When God established the covenant to Abraham initially, there was no mention of circumcision. Abraham revived the promise by FAITH- CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART. Circumcision of the flesh came 15 yrs later as an addendum to an already established covenant. Pls read Genesis 15 for insight. Thanks. |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by honesttalk21: 2:44pm On Oct 13, 2024 |
MaxInDHouse:European missionaries did play a significant role in spreading Christianity during colonial time however they did not bring Abrahamic religions to Africa. King Ezana of Ethiopia is credited with converting to Christianity around 330 AD. Was this due to interaction with whites? Did Solomon not have any interaction with Africans before this? He reigned between 970 and 931BCE. He had notable interactions with the African kingdom of Sheba, which is traditionally associated with modern-day Ethiopia and Yemen. |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Petalss(m): 2:49pm On Oct 13, 2024 |
MaxInDHouse:Are they called prophets by the Christians or not? Genesis 20 : 7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine. |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 2:49pm On Oct 13, 2024 |
honesttalk21:All these stories is for digression. Abraham and Isaac weren't prophets rather they were patriarchs. That's the truth! ![]() |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 2:51pm On Oct 13, 2024 |
Petalss:You can call anyone Christian if you wish but on the issue of prophet it's only those who are prophesying that are prophets and neither Abraham nor Isaac did that! |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Petalss(m): 2:57pm On Oct 13, 2024 |
MaxInDHouse:I am sorry Jare, You're the only true Christian, but the fake ones acknowledged Abraham as a prophet. MaxInDHouse:That person speaking in Genesis 20 vs 7 is a liar. Simple |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 3:04pm On Oct 13, 2024 |
Petalss:Whatever rocks your boat my guy! ![]() Petalss:The only language those people understand is "PROPHET" so by saying he is a prophet they will treat him well but to Christians Abraham is God's friend not a prophet! James 2:23 |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by honesttalk21: 3:14pm On Oct 13, 2024 |
MaxInDHouse:I see you accept and reject different parts of the Bible. Petalls has clearly shown you Abraham referred to as a prophet from the Bible. Digression or continuation of the guidance down generations? |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 3:18pm On Oct 13, 2024 |
honesttalk21:The language those involved can understand is PROPHET as they all know what that means but they don't know what it means to be God's friend that's why God used that word PROPHET but when it comes to those who knows what the title PROPHET means Abraham is not a prophet because he never prophesied! ![]() |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by encyclopediax: 3:37pm On Oct 13, 2024 |
Sand2022:If Jesussssssssss issssssssss God. Why did he ssssssit by the Right Hand of The Majesty on High ? Who issssssss the Majesssssty on High ? If Jesus isssssss God why doesssssss He ssssay " Only the Father Knows when the World will End ? " Good Master.... " Why call me though good ? Non is Good but God ," Jesus is asking why ssssssomeone is calling Him good and Wants only God the Father to be called good " for God so loved the World that He gave His only begotten Son ". We can see there are two different entities the Father who gave his Son . Jesus is The Messiah and Savior of The World. He is not God and does not need to be God to save the world. Adam was not God. Jesus is The New Adam to Restore mankind back to God. |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Petalss(m): 3:45pm On Oct 13, 2024 |
MaxInDHouse:Okay sir. Abraham is not a prophet, na language error. |
| Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MightySparrow: 3:51pm On Oct 13, 2024 |
encyclopediax: ? |
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