If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. - Christianity Etc (8)

If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. - Christianity Etc (8) - Nairaland

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Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 8:11pm On Oct 21, 2024

Gabrielshow24:
You didn't do justice here.
He(God) didn't call Moses God, He(God) made him(Moses) like God unto his brother(Aaron)
The way you presented it warranted his demeaning reply

The same thing God did to Jesus of Nazareth!

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Qasim6(m): 8:41pm On Oct 21, 2024

Gabrielshow24:
Trinity is being circulated as a hard topic but it's really simple to understand.

I agree with your write up

Really?
This is the first time I'll be seeing someone make a bold claim that trinity is very easy to understand.
Do you know how the doctrine was defined by the nicene-constatinople creed?

Can you reconcile that creed with Jesus a member of that trinity making statements like these

-Holy spirit and Jesus not knowing the hour?
-Father is greater than I?
-Father is the only true God?

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Gabrielshow24: 9:33pm On Oct 21, 2024

Qasim6:
Really?
This is the first time I'll be seeing someone make a bold claim that trinity is very easy to understand.
Do you know how the doctrine was defined by the nicene-constatinople creed?

Can you reconcile that creed with Jesus a member of that trinity making statements like these

-Holy spirit and Jesus not knowing the hour?
-Father is greater than I?
-Father is the only true God?

Jesus not knowing the hour is part of the aspects of his humility taking up a lower form and subjecting himself to his Father and not expressing his full nature; that doesn't mean if he asked from the Father at that moment in Time it won't be given him but he rather have his Father declare it(further showing his humility).

What don't you understand about the Nicene Creed?

The answer to your questions are in the bible!

What do you expect him to say? 🤨That he is greater than his Father.

He paid homage to the Father which gave him all things - it doesn't negate the fact that he has all things

And he said the father is greater because the Father "gave" him all things. Showing a flow

Emphasis on "gave".
From heavenly standards it's better to give than to receive. He that receives his technically spiritually lower than he that gives.

Hence understandably so. He(Jesus) didn't give his Father his authority but rather the Father gave him all Power and Authority!

A better question would have been along the concepts of him being with God before the beginning.

I fail to see how this is hard to understand!

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Janosky: 11:45pm On Oct 21, 2024

Gabrielshow24:
Jesus not knowing the hour is part of the aspects of his humility taking up a lower form and subjecting himself to his Father and not expressing his full nature; that doesn't mean if he asked from the Father at that moment in Time it won't be given him but he rather have his Father declare it(further showing his humility).

According to Psalm 110:1-2 & 1 Corinthians 15:24-27, is Jesus Christ subject under God in the spiritual realm?

Yes of course!

Oga, your claim is Trinitarian interpretation not holy scriptures.
Psalms 110:1-2 & 1 Corinthians 15:24-27 disagrees with your claim.

Gabrielshow24:
What don't you understand about the Nicene Creed?

The answer to your questions are in the bible!

What do you expect him to say? 🤨That he is greater than his Father.

He paid homage to the Father which gave him all things - it doesn't negate the fact that he has all things

And he said the father is greater because the Father "gave" him all things. Showing a flow

Emphasis on "gave".
From heavenly standards it's better to give than to receive. He that receives his technically spiritually lower than he that gives.

Hence understandably so. He(Jesus) didn't give his Father his authority but rather the Father gave him all Power and Authority!

A better question would have been along the concepts of him being with God before the beginning.

I fail to see how this is hard to understand!

Hebrew language Micah 5:2 prophecy about Jesus Christ.
"His ORIGIN ( beginning /start) is from of old, the days of yore"

Jesus Christ had a beginning, the first born of every creature.Revelation 3:14,Micah 5:2 & Colossians 1:15 confirm that fact.
Is the first born of every child still a child?
Yes.
Therefore, Colossians 1:15 & revelation 3:14 is correct.
As well as Micah 5:2.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Qasim6(m): 12:00am On Oct 22, 2024

Gabrielshow24:
Jesus not knowing the hour is part of the aspects of his humility taking up a lower form and subjecting himself to his Father and not expressing his full nature; that doesn't mean if he asked from the Father at that moment in Time it won't be given him but he rather have his Father declare it(further showing his humility).

What don't you understand about the Nicene Creed?

The answer to your questions are in the bible!

What do you expect him to say? 🤨That he is greater than his Father.

He paid homage to the Father which gave him all things - it doesn't negate the fact that he has all things

And he said the father is greater because the Father "gave" him all things. Showing a flow

Emphasis on "gave".
From heavenly standards it's better to give than to receive. He that receives his technically spiritually lower than he that gives.

Hence understandably so. He(Jesus) didn't give his Father his authority but rather the Father gave him all Power and Authority!

A better question would have been along the concepts of him being with God before the beginning.

Ok let's assume Jesus Christ did not know the hour out of humility even though it doesn't make any sense. What about the holy spirit?
Jesus Christ said only the Father knows the hour, why does the holy spirit not know? Humility of the holy spirit?

Here is a part of the creed

"We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
    the only Son of God,
    eternally begotten of the Father,
    God from God, Light from Light,
    true God from true God,
    begotten, not made,
    consubstantial to the father."

This creed is telling us Jesus was not made by the father that he is co-eternal, co-true God, with the father.

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. John 17:3

So why was Jesus identifying Father as the only true God and himself a messanger of that true God?

And can there be another true God apart from the Father?

Gabrielshow24:
I fail to see how this is hard to understand!

No bro, I fail to understand how a being that depend on another for his existence can be co-eternal and co-true God with that same being he depends on.

And I thought God should be self sufficient or have you guys redefine God?

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Gabrielshow24: 12:15am On Oct 22, 2024

Janosky:
According to Psalm 110:1-2 & 1 Corinthians 15:24-27, is Jesus Christ subject under God in the spiritual realm?

Yes of course!

Oga, your claim is Trinitarian interpretation not holy scriptures.
Psalms 110:1-2 & 1 Corinthians 15:24-27 disagrees with your claim.

Hebrew language Micah 5:2 prophecy about Jesus Christ.
"His ORIGIN ( beginning /start) is from of old, the days of yore"

Jesus Christ had a beginning, the first born of every creature.Revelation 3:14,Micah 5:2 & Colossians 1:15 confirm that fact.
Is the first born of every child still a child?
Yes.
Therefore, Colossians 1:15 & revelation 3:14 is correct.
As well as Micah 5:2.

The verses you quoted show the relationship between God and Jesus didn't I not mention the "flow" in my previous write up?

Firstborn of creation is a figurative speech to depict the fact that he is the heir of God and what better way to draw similitude than to use 'first born" which men can relate to.

Let me give you this example.
When you were in secondary school didn't you have seniors.
Yes you did and you called them " senior this " " senior that" but when you were done with school.

You relate with them rather differently(in some cases you start to call them by their names while in some introduction of clever addresses - my boss, oga etc without mentioning their names). The end result being that you still give them the(hint of it)respect! (All things being equal)

Hence no one disputes the fact that Jesus is dependent on the Father.

In fact he said "he can do nothing save whatsoever he sees his Father do"

But at some point after doing the things of the Father in the same way the Father does them.
You become adept; at that time we can call you "Master".

That's why the bible records of him attaining the fullness of the Father!

As regards creation it's very evident from scriptures that Christ predates creation.

Since time is a concept in creation.
Christ likewise predates space and time.

That's why we don't use the term "created" for the son!

Because he was, he is and he is still to come!!!

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Janosky: 12:20am On Oct 22, 2024

Sand2022:
We will look at col 1:17

Colossians 1:17 He existed before everything else began, and he holds all creation together.

A creature cannot possibly do that. Heb 1:3 tells us more.

Hebrews 1:3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Notice that Jesus is here said to uphold ALL things by the word of His power. This is not just elevating all things, but the point is that Christ sustains ALL things, universe, humans, animals etc, by the word of His power. So after creating all things, He also sustains ALL things.

Also take note of the Power aspect. Such power must be the Highest form of power there is. For the power of a creature cannot possibly sustain all things.

This doesn't sound like what an ordinary creature can do. Does it?

Tags: Aemmyjah, achorladey, Jozzy4, MaxInDHouse, MightySparrow, NowYouKnow, TemmyT002, johnw47, Boomark, Emusan, Dtruthspeaker.

The popular rendition of Colossians 1:17 is conflicting & contradictory to Colossians 1:15. Revelation 3:14.
Micah 5:2 & Ephesians 3:14-15.

"He (Jesus) holds all things together" because he OBEYS the expressed instructions given by the God his Father, Psalms 110:1-2. John 17:7 & John 5:19.

[b]"He is before all OTHER things ", more correct rendition & in harmony with Colossians 1:15. Revelation 3:14.
Micah 5:2 & Ephesians 3:14-15.

Luke 13:2
Do you think those Galileans were worse sinners than all (OTHER) Galileans "

JW's have done justice to the holy scriptures for the purpose of clarity @ Colossians 1:17
Or
Remove "OTHER" from Luke 13:2 in your own Bible.

If NWT Colossians 1:15 dey vex you, pls delete "Origin" from Micah 5:2.
Delete "first born" from Colossians 1:15 & "beginning " from Revelation 3:15 to agree with your bias about Colossians 1:17.

Bill Mounce, your fellow Trinitarian & Greek scholar have posited "the Colossians were taught by Paul that Jesus is NOT fully God."
Still, Jesus is NOT fully God @ Hebrew 1:3.
Photocopy remains a photocopy. Not Original.
IYKYK.

Nah the same Paul write Colossians 1:17.
What a frank rebuttal of Colossians 1:17 !

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Gabrielshow24: 12:25am On Oct 22, 2024

Qasim6:
Ok let's assume Jesus Christ did not know the hour out of humility even though it doesn't make any sense. What about the holy spirit?
Jesus Christ said only the Father knows the hour, why does the holy spirit not know? Humility of the holy spirit?

Here is a part of the creed

"We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
    the only Son of God,
    eternally begotten of the Father,
    God from God, Light from Light,
    true God from true God,
    begotten, not made,
    consubstantial to the father."

This creed is telling us Jesus was not made by the father that he is co-eternal, co-true God, with the father.

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. John 17:3

So why was Jesus identifying Father as the only true God and himself a messanger of that true God?

And can there be another true God apart from the Father?

No bro, I fail to understand how a being that depend on another for his existence can be co-eternal and co-true God with that same being he depends on.

And I thought God should be self sufficient or have you guys redefine God?

As regarding the Holy spirit your argument does not hold water because from scriptures we can see from the analogy of Paul as regards the spirit of men knowing about the thoughts of men how much more the spirit of God which searcheth the deep things of God (paraphrased a little)!

Answering your question on the Nicene Creed.
The Nicene Creed is a way to come to terms with the fact that Jesus existed before time and space with God.

Creation as we know it came along with time and space hence Jesus was not created.
And anything that isn't subject to time is timeless and automatically becomes an axiom.

But the bible reveals a peculiar relationship between the Son and the Father where reverence is made to the Father even by the son hence this suggests the Son(in the same substance as the Father, humbles himself before his Father giving honor unto Him)

Now the mystery now lies in how did Jesus become begotten of God?

That's the real question not all this perambulation

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Janosky: 12:31am On Oct 22, 2024*

Gabrielshow24:
As regarding the Holy spirit your argument does not hold water because from scriptures we can see from the analogy of Paul has regards the spirit of men knowing about men how much more the spirit of God which searched the deep things of God (paraphrased a little)!

Answering your question on the Nicene Creed.
The Nicene Creed is a way to come to terms the fact that Jesus existed before time and space with God.

Creation as we know it came along with time and space hence Jesus was not created.
And anything that isn't subject to time is timeless and automatically becomes an axiom.

But the bible revealsna peculiar relationship between the Son and the Father where reverence is made to the Father even by the son hence this suggests the Son(in the same substance as the Father humbles himself before his Father giving honor to Him)

Now the mystery now lies in how did Jesus become begotten of God?

That's the real question not all this perambulation

The same manner that Isaac was begotten of Abraham.
Abraham is his son's Senior.
Likewise, the God Almighty is his son's (Jesus) Senior in the spiritual realm.
The meaning of begotten doesn't change @ John 3:16 & Hebrew 11:17-19.

"Father" in the bible meaning senior.
Whenever you read "Father" in your Bible, substitute that word (Father) with Senior.

The 2 biggest question is:
According to Jesus Christ @ John 20:17,What does Jesus Christ & every person have the same Senior?

According to Paul, Ephesians 3:14-15, why did everyone owes his name to the same Senior?

The answer is very straightforward
Jesus Christ in heaven & everyone are creatures of the Senior, our Most High God.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Emusan(m): 9:24am On Oct 24, 2024

MaxInDHouse:
Other translations rendered the verse as:

"I have made you God to Pharaoh"

So your NWT is wrong here, right?

Anyway, your earlier point was that Moses WAS GOD not that He WAS MADE GOD! these are different things.

That is why God later said he will send another prophet like Moses to the Israelites {Deuteronomy 18:18-19} and Peter confirmed that this promised prophet is Jesus of Nazareth! Act 3:22

So the prophet will be LIKE Moses, compare this with the same above when the scripture says Moses was MADE LIKE A GOD to Pharaoh.

Can you see the same thing?

So Moses and Jesus were made God by the Almighty God!

No where scripture ever says Jesus was MADE GOD.

Besides, if somethong is made to be HUMAN that thing will be ACTUAL HUMAN in all ramifications.

Example of this is your belief that the misled angles actually have ALL HUMAN HAS to the extend of impregnating women.

So, if you agreed that both Moses and Jesus were MADE GOD, then it means both Moses and Jesus are ACTUALLY GOD in all ramifications. It that true?

But by including the word "LIKE" shows it's just a metaphor.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 10:06am On Oct 24, 2024

Emusan:
So your NWT is wrong here, right?
Anyway, your earlier point was that Moses WAS GOD not that He WAS MADE GOD! these are different things. So the prophet will be LIKE Moses, compare this with the same above when the scripture says Moses was MADE LIKE A GOD to Pharaoh. Can you see the same thing? No where scripture ever says Jesus was MADE GOD. Besides, if somethong is made to be HUMAN that thing will be ACTUAL HUMAN in all ramifications. Example of this is your belief that the misled angles actually have ALL HUMAN HAS to the extend of impregnating women. So, if you agreed that both Moses and Jesus were MADE GOD, then it means both Moses and Jesus are ACTUALLY GOD in all ramifications. It that true? But by including the word "LIKE" shows it's just a metaphor.

No problem at least you know now that it's not only JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES that teaches Jesus is not the Almighty God.
I think that's enough for now!

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by gohf: 10:23am On Oct 24, 2024

Sand2022:
We will look at col 1:17

Colossians 1:17 He existed before everything else began, and he holds all creation together.

A creature cannot possibly do that. Heb 1:3 tells us more.

Hebrews 1:3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Notice that Jesus is here said to uphold ALL things by the word of His power. This is not just elevating all things, but the point is that Christ sustains ALL things, universe, humans, animals etc, by the word of His power. So after creating all things, He also sustains ALL things.

Also take note of the Power aspect. Such power must be the Highest form of power there is. For the power of a creature cannot possibly sustain all things.

This doesn't sound like what an ordinary creature can do. Does it?

Tags: Aemmyjah, achorladey, Jozzy4, MaxInDHouse, MightySparrow, NowYouKnow, TemmyT002, johnw47, Boomark, Emusan, Dtruthspeaker.

almost forgot this post exists, saw it the day I was so busy

I know someone may have been led by God to respond to you but incase why not read verse 15 before verse 17

Col.1.15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (KJV)

Jesus being the first creation of God isn't God Himself the creator of all who used him to make others

Heb.1.2 But now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he made the universe and everything in it. (NLT)
Heb.1.3 The Son reflects God's own glory, and everything about him represents God exactly. He sustains the universe by the mighty power of his command. After he died to cleanse us from the stain of sin, he sat down in the place of honor at the right hand of the majestic God of heaven. (NLT)

Is Jesus undermined by being called son of God and not God? Do you think he is that proud like the devil who wants to be who he is not?

The power of a creature? The question is who gave the power.

The sun shines everyday how can the sun have so much power to illuminate all the earth, it was given so.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Emusan(m): 12:42pm On Oct 24, 2024

MaxInDHouse:
No problem at least you know now that it's not only JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES that teaches Jesus is not the Almighty God.
I think that's enough for now!

@color part is very funny. I NOW KNOW ke.... Or you have been the one in denial.

The heresy of Jesus is not Almighty God which is against God's Word.

Can be traced to as early as first century. In fact it was the teaching that leads the early Christians to use God's word to come up with the Trinity explanation.

So, you see, if JWs can go back to the false teaching of early heresy then it says a lot about their master.

And since you also agreed that not only JWs having this teaching shows MANY ACTUALLY HAVE THE TRUTH.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Emusan(m): 12:57pm On Oct 24, 2024

gohf:
I know someone may have been led by God to respond to you but incase why not read verse 15 before verse 17

Col.1.15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (KJV)

Jesus being the first creation of God isn't God Himself the creator of all who used him to make others

It's so funny how you read FIRSTBORN in Col 1:15 but in your statement it was changed to FIRST CREATION

Do you thing Paul who wrote Col 1:15 didn't know that there's a word for FIRST CREATION before he used FIRSTBORN?

If you read down to verse 18 then you will know why FIRSTBORN IS ACCURATELY used rather than FIRST CREATED.

The term firstborn is about PREEMINENCE NOT about creation.

Heb.1.2 But now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he made the universe and everything in it. (NLT)
Heb.1.3 The Son reflects God's own glory, and everything about him represents God exactly. He sustains the universe by the mighty power of his command. After he died to cleanse us from the stain of sin, he sat down in the place of honor at the right hand of the majestic God of heaven. (NLT)

So, JESUS IS A CREATOR.

Or didn't the verse you quoted here said Jesus was involved in CREATION?

Is Jesus undermined by being called son of God and not God? Do you think he is that proud like the devil who wants to be who he is not?

Not entirely true.

Jesus was called God many times.

The power of a creature? The question is who gave the power.

If I was given a power to become PRESIDENT, am I PRESIDENT or not?

The sun shines everyday how can the sun have so much power to illuminate all the earth, it was given so.

The sun has limited power, even you have your own power.

But the point from the OP is OMNIPOTENT attributes as seen in that Heb 1:2 being used for Jesus. NO CREATURE CAN SUSTAINED THE WHOLE UNIVERSE.

One of the attributes that makes God to be God is UNLIMITED POWER - OMNIPOTENT.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 12:57pm On Oct 24, 2024

Emusan:
@color part is very funny. I NOW KNOW ke.... Or you have been the one in denial.

The heresy of Jesus is not Almighty God which is against God's Word.

Can be traced to as early as first century. In fact it was the teaching that leads the early Christians to use God's word to come up with the Trinity explanation.

So, you see, if JWs can go back to the false teaching of early heresy then it says a lot about their master.

And since you also agreed that not only JWs having this teaching shows MANY ACTUALLY HAVE THE TRUTH.

So when talking about Jesus not Almighty God you won't say it's only JWs that hold such teaching.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Emusan(m): 1:01pm On Oct 24, 2024

MaxInDHouse:
So when talking about Jesus not Almighty God you won't say it's only JWs that hold such teaching.

Have I ever said ONLY JWs hold the teaching.

Like I said, it's you who have been in denial of only JWs have the TRUTH. cheesy

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 1:36pm On Oct 24, 2024

Emusan:
Have I ever said ONLY JWs hold the teaching.
Like I said, it's you who have been in denial of only JWs have the TRUTH.

OK!

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Gabrielshow24: 5:01pm On Oct 24, 2024

Emusan:
So your NWT is wrong here, right?

Anyway, your earlier point was that Moses WAS GOD not that He WAS MADE GOD! these are different things.

So the prophet will be LIKE Moses, compare this with the same above when the scripture says Moses was MADE LIKE A GOD to Pharaoh.

Can you see the same thing?

No where scripture ever says Jesus was MADE GOD.

Besides, if somethong is made to be HUMAN that thing will be ACTUAL HUMAN in all ratification

Example of this is your belief that the misled angles actually have ALL HUMAN HAS to the extend of impregnating women.

As regards Angels taking the form of men: even Good angels do that as recorded in the scripture hence it means the generic form of flesh(man) is something an higher being can reproduce

So, if you agreed that both Moses and Jesus were MADE GOD, then it means both Moses and Jesus are ACTUALLY GOD in all ramifications. It that true?

what does it take to be called God?

Is it by ability?
Or by Power perhaps?

What's the fundamental criteria for being termed God?

If you can ponder this and come to a conclusive answer then maybe perhaps your thought patterns will change!

Sooner or later as you delve deeper you start to see that these terms "God" and "Lord" are also titles and can be bestowed if you meet the requirements for such.

Then what now makes God God?
It's not about the power, it's not about the fancy show neither about the glory.
Think deeply and perhaps you will get it!

But by including the word "LIKE" shows it's just a metaphor.

but it bears semblance of truth!!!

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Gabrielshow24: 5:20pm On Oct 24, 2024

gohf:
almost forgot this post exists, saw it the day I was so busy

I know someone may have been led by God to respond to you but incase why not read verse 15 before verse 17

Col.1.15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (KJV)

Jesus being the first creation of God isn't God Himself the creator of all who used him to make others

Heb.1.2 But now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he made the universe and everything in it. (NLT)
Heb.1.3 The Son reflects God's own glory, and everything about him represents God exactly. He sustains the universe by the mighty power of his command. After he died to cleanse us from the stain of sin, he sat down in the place of honor at the right hand of the majestic God of heaven. (NLT)

Is Jesus undermined by being called son of God and not God? Do you think he is that proud like the devil who wants to be who he is not?

The power of a creature? The question is who gave the power.

The sun shines everyday how can the sun have so much power to illuminate all the earth, it was given so.

A lot of people miss the entire point.

And as such cannot grasp the concept of Jesus' equality to God.

Like I said earlier Jesus predates time.
Now saying that he attains the fullness of God will not be totally accurate because the term " attain" insinuates the presence of time.

Now if he predates time and from our little scientific study of black holes, we perceive anything at the event horizon as being stationary.

Hence Jesus had already been in the fullness of the Father

Now as regards Jesus being God.
Logic tells you that some certain positions come with power.
Have you not heard of those that have become presidents/Governors for a day?

In that very day, whatsoever they do in that office it's as if the Governor hath done it.

Now Jesus said all power in Heaven and on Earth have been given unto me.
Hence by Power he has the equivalent of God!
And other verses confirm likewise that his reign will be forever adding the "eternal characteristics of God to the equation"

From scriptures we see that Jesus has the seven spirits of God all pointing to the fact that he has/had attain(ed) the fullness of God!

But wisdom demands that you give honor to whom honor is due.

Mind you when you finish your tertiary institution you get a certificate to show that you have completed your study!
It doesn't matter how many finished but as soon as they are done they are called graduates!

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Emusan(m): 5:23pm On Oct 24, 2024

MaxInDHouse:
OK!

Better!

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 8:35pm On Oct 24, 2024

Emusan:
Better!

You're just hungry for fruitless arguments and i'm not interested in such nonsense so keep whatever beliefs you have! cheesy

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Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Sand2022(op): 9:14pm On Oct 24, 2024

gohf:
almost forgot this post exists, saw it the day I was so busy

I know someone may have been led by God to respond to you but incase why not read verse 15 before verse 17

Col.1.15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (KJV)

Jesus being the first creation of God isn't God Himself the creator of all who used him to make others

Firstborn doesn't mean first creature, try reading verse 16. It helps show why he is called the firstborn. It gives the reason when it says "because by him are all things made".

Secondly, seeing Jesus as a creature goes against John 1:3 which unambiguously says that "apart from him not EVEN ONE thing was made". That is totally unambiguous.

Heb.1.2 But now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he made the universe and everything in it. (NLT)
Heb.1.3 The Son reflects God's own glory, and everything about him represents God exactly. He sustains the universe by the mighty power of his command. After he died to cleanse us from the stain of sin, he sat down in the place of honor at the right hand of the majestic God of heaven

Jesus being used by God to create things doesn't affect his divinity. That is if you understand the subject.

From what you quoted on Heb 1:3, you see clearly that Jesus is the exact representation of His very BEING. the point of Trinity is exactly that, Jesus is of the same essence as God the Father. Sustaining the all things by the word of His power can only be work done by the Almighty for that would mean sustaining even all creatures, angels, humans, universe etc. A creature cannot do this.

Is Jesus undermined by being called son of God and not God? Do you think he is that proud like the devil who wants to be who he is not?

I don't understand how this fit.

The power of a creature? The question is who gave the power.

The sun shines everyday how can the sun have so much power to illuminate all the earth, it was given so.

That scripture didn't say the power was given. He is already the exact representation of God's being. So He possess that power essentially.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by nnamdiosu(m): 8:10am On Oct 25, 2024*

Sand2022:
We will look at col 1:17

Colossians 1:17 He existed before everything else began, and he holds all creation together.

A creature cannot possibly do that. Heb 1:3 tells us more.

Hebrews 1:3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Notice that Jesus is here said to uphold ALL things by the word of His power. This is not just elevating all things, but the point is that Christ sustains ALL things, universe, humans, animals etc, by the word of His power. So after creating all things, He also sustains ALL things.

Also take note of the Power aspect. Such power must be the Highest form of power there is. For the power of a creature cannot possibly sustain all things.

This doesn't sound like what an ordinary creature can do. Does it?

Tags: Aemmyjah, achorladey, Jozzy4, MaxInDHouse, MightySparrow, NowYouKnow, TemmyT002, johnw47, Boomark, Emusan, Dtruthspeaker.

Not just that my brother, Hebrews 1:8 says God called Jesus God.

God commanded all the angels to worship him as a baby when he was born.

He forgave sins (no created being can do this particularly. It's left for God himself).

Jesus is God without any controversy.
He is the physical manifestation of an invincible God.

4 Likes

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by TemmyT002(m): 9:04am On Oct 25, 2024

nnamdiosu:
Not just that my brother, Hebrews 1:8 says God called Jesus God.

God commanded all the angels to worship him as a baby when he was born.

He forgave sins (no created being can do this particularly. It's left for God himself).

Jesus is God without any controversy.
He is the physics manifestation of an investible God.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MightySparrow: 11:47am On Oct 25, 2024

nnamdiosu:
Not just that my brother, Hebrews 1:8 says God called Jesus God.

God commanded all the angels to worship him as a baby when he was born.

He forgave sins (no created being can do this particularly. It's left for God himself).

Jesus is God without any controversy.
He is the physical manifestation of an investible God.

True Sír.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Emusan(m): 1:23pm On Oct 25, 2024

MaxInDHouse:
You're just hungry for fruitless arguments and i'm not interested in such nonsense so keep whatever beliefs you have!

So you saying okay and me saying BETTER is now and headache to you.

Come out plain, stop doing hide and seek cheesy

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Emusan(m): 1:29pm On Oct 25, 2024

TemmyT002:
copied

He also said:

1. He existed along side with the Father even before creation happened.

2. He shared glory with the Father.

3. That ALL MEN should honor HIM JUST AS they honor the Father.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by TemmyT002(m): 6:49pm On Oct 25, 2024

Emusan:
He also said:

1. He existed along side with the Father even before creation happened.

2. He shared glory with the Father.

3. That ALL MEN should honor HIM JUST AS they honor the Father.

But he never for once made himself equal to his father.
He PRAYED to his father
If they were equals, he didn't need to pray.
It was his father who raised him from the dead. He didn't raise himself.
His father used him to create the universe. He didn't create it himself.
He said, He is the way. The way means there is still a destination. The father is the destination.
He said no one comes to the father except through him. Meaning his father is greater than he is.
He said, "In my father's house, there are many mansions."
He didn't say, "In my house, there are many mansions."

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by TemmyT002(m): 6:50pm On Oct 25, 2024

Emusan:
He also said:

1. He existed along side with the Father even before creation happened.

2. He shared glory with the Father.

3. That ALL MEN should honor HIM JUST AS they honor the Father.

It was his father who gave him a name that is above every other name. He didn't give himself.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 7:08pm On Oct 25, 2024

TemmyT002:
It was his father who gave him a name that is above every other name. He didn't give himself.

You are using the Bible to clarify matters while discussing with people who believes their God is MYSTERIOUS.

Now that's where the problem lies! undecided

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by sonmvayina(m): 7:40pm On Oct 25, 2024

Jehovah's witnesses are just neo Arianism. Which was the position of Arius prior to Nicea. I think it was the position of most presbyter before Nicea, that was the reason he even went to the council. But he was surprised that they all betrayed him. Even his closest pally, Eusebius deserted him.
Emperor Constantine was even baptized by an Arianian bishop on his death bed as he was a sol Invictus member all his life..

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by freshboi88: 8:07pm On Oct 25, 2024

tareboy:
He said, “But of that day and/or hour no one knows, not even the angels of/in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone” (Matthew 24.36/Mark 13.32

Let me turn your logic against you

Rev 19:12
His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.

It says Jesus has a name on him that no one knew but himself..does that mean the Father doesn't know the name

1 Like

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