₦airaland Forum

Expanse2020:
Your foolishness should point out a person a tonaldo carried away in your vicinity and those who recorded the event...
Note
The whirlwind carried Elijah was not record seeing by the sons of prophet who were at the distance to them 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 joke of the century even place reach higher we still see it at a certain distance

Now that I am back let me address my mentions starting with this one.

This is foolishness.
Terrain and whole lots of factors could have come into play.

I am currently debating a fellow Muslim of yours which is trying to defend your prophet's splitting of the moon!

How such a grandiose event was missed by all!

And how it was only seen by a few people.
If that could be said of the moon that is in sky.

Visible for all to see!

Then I don't see the need to explain to you the visibility aspect of tornado/sweepers.

honesttalk21:
As I pointed out in my first response to you this is not but you engaging in vain amusement and futile engagement so time for more meaningful things will be lost.

The splitting of the moon reported in Islamic tradition is a miracle that took place in the era of Prophet Muhammad pbuh as a sign of proof of his prophethood. This event should not be confused with a lunar eclipse, because there are several reasons why the two phenomena cannot be conflated with one another:

1. Time of occurrence: The timing of the occurrence of the two incidents is not the same. The moon is said to have been split as an extraordinary response that was in answer to the fact that the holy Prophet (peace be upon him) had been asked for a miracle.

Its nature and onset is quite distinct from a lunar eclipse which is a cyclical event brought on by the relationship among the sun, earth, and moon.

2. Time scale or duration: A lunar eclipse is something but surely for a few hours. The splitting of the moon as narrated in the Islamic literature was a brief event whereby the moon was split into two parts which in a short time merged back. The essence of the splitting of the moon is that it was sharp and swift, which is in contrast to the other phenomenon – a lunar eclipse which is prolonged and gradual loosing.

3. Visibility: The moon can be seen as, while during a lunar eclipse the moon becomes fainter and appears reddish, the source of this red color is sunlight which is obscured by the earth. On the other hand, the miracle of the splitting of the moon remained in its usual colour. It was historical, witnessed clearly and the utter separation of the moon into two pieces was seen with no ambiguity.

4. Historical accounts: In the sources of Islam, a specific sign is stressed and was proven by the occurrence of the splitting of the moon; that unique event strengthened the position of the Prophet in the eyes of his followers. The accounts of the splitting of the moon do not fit the lunar eclipse in the description of phenomena and of the event.

The splitting of the moon and the lunar eclipse must not be confused with each other because they occur for different reasons and at different times. Splitting of the moon was performed as a miracle to confirm the mission of Prophet Muhammad, while a lunar eclipse is quite a common event which happens in a periodic manner.

2 The Quran does not deny miracles but Muslims are discouraged from attributing importance to it. Do magicians perform tricks? Are there not reports of dramatized miracles? Instruments of the deceiving devil.

3 Doesn't this miracle surprise you and sound too good to be true? The moon just split in two out of the blue? Doesn't this seem like serious magic stuff? Historians from back then probably had a hard time believing it or figuring out how to write about it without sounding like they'd lost their marbles. They liked their facts neat and tidy, not all over the place like a miracle would be.


Another reason might why there aren't a bunch of old records about the moon splitting is that, you know, back in the day, people didn't keep tabs on everything like we do now. Stuff got missed or forgotten because they weren't as into writing everything down or taking pictures as we are with our smartphones.

The Quran reports it and shows a group of people saw it happen, but it doesn't say if it was like the whole town or just a handful of people. And since it's not like everyone had a camera or Twitter to share the news, it might've just been a cool local story that didn't make it into the history books. The bigwigs of the time might've thought, "Meh, unless we can see it with our own eyes or touch it, it's not going in our records." So, unless someone super important said, "Hey, I totally saw the moon split!" and had a bunch of people backing them up, it's easy to see why it didn't get the historical VIP treatment.


4. It's neither a metaphor or prophesy of a future event to come

5. Do you feel it is difficult for God that created all to perfearly recreate what he created before.

Probably far fetched have you any reports of babies that had a fractured limb bone occurring at the time of delivery growing up with significant traces that this ever happened? At such age within a week the bone is fully healed as said by gynecologist friend of mine almost 3 decades ago.

Other prophets from Moses to Jesus performed miracles but were these enough to convince those who wouldn't of their prophethood, message and the almighty God?

No 5. That's not a miracle.
Even lizards and geckos regrow lost limbs!
So what's your point?

And babies in infancy have lots of stem cells!

What your prophet claimed to do was a spinned false miracle attributed to him by Islamic scholars!

Even from early Islamic history no miracle was attributed Mohammed. Perhaps due to the christian slight of "prophet without a miracle" that your scholars decided to " search the books" to find something that can be used to confirm his prophethood.

I wonder what else they were searching for?

From searching the injeel and Torah for the prophecy about Mohammed to likewise covering up his misdeeds.

What a prophet!

Don't give that crap of "it wasn't documented".
As early as 105AD, paper had been used in the China.

Remind me again the year Muhammad was born?

Or perhaps the whole civilization of stargazers fell asleep on the same day?

How convenient!

The self same civilizations that recorded early astronomical events.

You have forgotten that astrology was a rave then!

A lot of people looked to the stars if I were to be there. I would have done the same!

You have no excuse!
Either your Allah cast a split second genjutsu on the people or nothing happened!

perhaps he did the same thing "he supposedly did to Jesus"

Allah must really like deceiving people!

As regards the prophets in the bible.
The people asked Jesus for a sign "in order for them believe" this hints of the mindset of people then - "show Me something DIVINE and I will follow you"

Jesus said to the multitude after feeding them.
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled."

That's a physical present sign (they ate and were satisfied even in the means of lack).

Or how do you think the Lord saved Israel through Elijah?

Was it not through a strong hand? by calling down fire!

Or perhaps Elijah, like your prophet decided to tell the people come, the moon will go hither here and there as if in the first place it won't go hither and thither?

Or instead he called down fire!

How often do you see fire fall from heaven?
Have you even seen one before?
That's a miracle.
Immediately the people believed.

Take Moses, through whose hands the Lord saved Israel from the red sea.
By splitting it!

Your prophet didn't do that!
But instead through Islamic propaganda - "he spoke; the moon will split and the moon was seen on both sides of the mountain. I wonder if the moon wasn't seen on both sides of the mountain in the first place!
"

That's why the people didn't believe.
Show them something that they have never seen!

Why didn't he call down fire?
Or perhaps when the people accused him of stealing an underwear; his accusers should be instantly swallowed up by the earth!

Very convenient that Allah should give him word through "his own mouth" that he didn't steal it.

And Allah in his infinite wisdom didn't reveal the thief!🙄

Even contemporary historians of Mohammed didn't record it!

Gabrielshow24:
No 5. That's not a miracle.
Even lizards and geckos regrow lost limbs!
So what's your point?

And babies in infancy have lots of stem cells!

What your prophet claimed to do was a spinned false miracle attributed to him by Islamic scholars!

Even from early Islamic history no miracle was attributed Mohammed. Perhaps due to the christian slight of "prophet without a miracle" that your scholars decided to " search the books" to find something that can be used to confirm his prophethood.

I wonder what else they were searching for?

From searching the injeel and Torah for the prophecy about Mohammed to likewise covering up his misdeeds.

What a prophet!

Don't give that crap of "it wasn't documented".
As early as 105AD, paper had been used in the China.

Remind me again the year Muhammad was born?

Or perhaps the whole civilization of stargazers fell asleep on the same day?

How convenient!

The self same civilizations that recorded early astronomical events.

You have forgotten that astrology was a rave then!

A lot of people looked to the stars if I were to be there. I would have done the same!

You have no excuse!
Either your Allah cast a split second genjutsu on the people or nothing happened!

perhaps he did the same thing "he supposedly did to Jesus"

Allah must really like deceiving people!

As regards the prophets in the bible.
The people asked Jesus for a sign "in order for them believe" this hints of the mindset of people then - "show Me something DIVINE and I will follow you"

Jesus said to the multitude after feeding them.
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled."

That's a physical present sign (they ate and were satisfied even in the means of lack).

Or how do you think the Lord saved Israel through Elijah?

Was it not through a strong hand? by calling down fire!

Or perhaps Elijah, like your prophet decided to tell the people come, the moon will go hither here and there as if in the first place it won't go hither and thither?

Or instead he called down fire!

How often do you see fire fall from heaven?
Have you even seen one before?
That's a miracle.
Immediately the people believed.

Take Moses, through whose hands the Lord saved Israel from the red sea.
By splitting it!

Your prophet didn't do that!
But instead through Islamic propaganda - "he spoke; the moon will split and the moon was seen on both sides of the mountain. I wonder if the moon wasn't seen on both sides of the mountain in the first place!
"

That's why the people didn't believe.
Show them something that they have never seen!

Why didn't he call down fire?
Or perhaps when the people accused him of stealing an underwear; his accusers should be instantly swallowed up by the earth!

Very convenient that Allah should give him word through "his own mouth" that he didn't steal it.

And Allah in his infinite wisdom didn't reveal the thief!🙄

Even contemporary historians of Mohammed didn't record it!

The point is simply how easily and quickly the limb heels without a trace. Why isn't that the case in much older people? In any case I stated it was far fetched.

Now the problem you seem to have is thinking the splitting of the moon was a global occurrence. It more likely wasn't.

People who were mostly in Mecca are said to have witnessed the event. Mecca then was not a learning center or a major place in the world, consequently the events taking place there might not have been recorded in the Persian or the Roman or other contemporaneous empires.

The early Islamic history does have some miracles concerning Prophet Muhammad although these are unlike the physical ones attributed to most previous prophets; indeed prophets had peculiarly different signs with each of them. Muslims consider the greatest and the most everlasting miracle of Prophet Muhammad to be none other than the Qur'an. Then again, there are still some miracles reported that concern him although they are not as stressed as those of the earlier prophets.

Muslims hold the view that the original Torah and Injeel contained predictions about Muhammad. However, they think that these references have become less clear over time. They believe this has happened due to changes different ways of understanding the texts, and other factors related to the situation. Fundamentally though it is not that important that followers of the previous scripture agree with this as everyone will get his or her due reward.

Surah Al-A'raf (7:157):
"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong…"

Surah Al-Baqarah (2:89):
"And when there came to them a Book from Allah confirming what was with them – although before they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieved – but when there came to them that which they recognized, they disbelieved in it; so the curse of Allah will be upon the disbelievers."

Surah Al-Baqarah (2:174):
"Indeed, those who conceal what Allah has sent down of the Book and exchange it for a small price – they consume not into their bellies except the Fire. And Allah will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them. And they will have a painful punishment."

Despite the presence of paper in China as far back as 105AD, the adoption of paper in 7th century Arabia in Mecca and Medina, was restricted because it had just been brought in from China through trade routes. These cities would later welcome this new idea as part of their cultural growth within the larger Islamic world. Even today is there equal level of development all over the world? I dare say that even today some people even in America and Europe can neither read nor write.

You conveniently are oblivious of the fact that in 7th-century Arabia, oral tradition was the primary means of preserving and sharing knowledge, especially among Arabs. Written records were less common.

Moses had been chosen by God and brought about miracles yet there were still many Israelites who did not believe in him. They wanted to go back to Egypt. (Numbers 11:4-6)

In the New Testament, Jesus performed miracles. He did this many times to show that through Him came power from on high. Yet, it is written that because of what he did, quite a number of people still didn't believe him (John 1:11).

In many parts of the Bible, people failed most of the time to fully live by a prophet's message or continuously obey the Lord, even after seeing signs that should have conjured awe; indeed despite the to expected appreciation for miraculous signs there was still disagreement and disobedience where there was supposed to be a common trend of complete and total belief.

In conclusion though I will like to submit that God defines and controls how he relates with mankind and not the other way round.

You also know that despite Elijah’s calling down fire from heaven being a powerful demonstration of divine authority, it only led some to acknowledge Yahweh as God at that moment, it did not lead to widespread or enduring faith among all Israelites.

THE LORD WILL DELIVER THE UNITED FEDERATION OF NIGERIA FROM ALL ITS ADVERSARIES.

honesttalk21:
The point is simply how easily and quickly the limb heels without a trace. Why isn't that the case in much older people? In any case I stated it was far fetched.

Now the problem you seem to have is thinking the splitting of the moon was a global occurrence. It more likely wasn't.

People who were mostly in Mecca are said to have witnessed the event. Mecca then was not a learning center or a major place in the world, consequently the events taking place there might not have been recorded in the Persian or the Roman or other contemporaneous empires.

The early Islamic history does have some miracles concerning Prophet Muhammad although these are unlike the physical ones attributed to most previous prophets; indeed prophets had peculiarly different signs with each of them. Muslims consider the greatest and the most everlasting miracle of Prophet Muhammad to be none other than the Qur'an. Then again, there are still some miracles reported that concern him although they are not as stressed as those of the earlier prophets.

Muslims hold the view that the original Torah and Injeel contained predictions about Muhammad. However, they think that these references have become less clear over time. They believe this has happened due to changes different ways of understanding the texts, and other factors related to the situation. Fundamentally though it is not that important that followers of the previous scripture agree with this as everyone will get his or her due reward.

Surah Al-A'raf (7:157):
"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong…"

Surah Al-Baqarah (2:89):
"And when there came to them a Book from Allah confirming what was with them – although before they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieved – but when there came to them that which they recognized, they disbelieved in it; so the curse of Allah will be upon the disbelievers."

Surah Al-Baqarah (2:174):
"Indeed, those who conceal what Allah has sent down of the Book and exchange it for a small price – they consume not into their bellies except the Fire. And Allah will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them. And they will have a painful punishment."

Despite the presence of paper in China as far back as 105AD, the adoption of paper in 7th century Arabia in Mecca and Medina, was restricted because it had just been brought in from China through trade routes. These cities would later welcome this new idea as part of their cultural growth within the larger Islamic world. Even today is there equal level of development all over the world? I dare say that even today some people even in America and Europe can neither read nor write.

You conveniently are oblivious of the fact that in 7th-century Arabia, oral tradition was the primary means of preserving and sharing knowledge, especially among Arabs. Written records were less common.

Moses had been chosen by God and brought about miracles yet there were still many Israelites who did not believe in him. They wanted to go back to Egypt. (Numbers 11:4-6)

In the New Testament, Jesus performed miracles. He did this many times to show that through Him came power from on high. Yet, it is written that because of what he did, quite a number of people still didn't believe him (John 1:11).

In many parts of the Bible, people failed most of the time to fully live by a prophet's message or continuously obey the Lord, even after seeing signs that should have conjured awe; indeed despite the to expected appreciation for miraculous signs there was still disagreement and disobedience where there was supposed to be a common trend of complete and total belief.

In conclusion though I will like to submit that God defines and controls how he relates with mankind and not the other way round.

Did you read what you wrote up there?

Let me point this out to you Incase it slipped your mind.

*Let me get it straight 🤔
You're arguing for regionalization in the context of the global variable!

I don't think you know the implications of what you just said!

It's like declaring a "global" variable and then arguing a function changed this variable only within the context of a closure!

But you missed the criteria "global".

If you didn't understand the programming analogy.
Let me it break down for you.

Objects like sun and moon are global!
Hence if something were to happen to these objects it will be seen by most if not all!

Because they are far placed in the sky that men from all places, depending on time, can see them.

Hence if the moon split like you said it won't be localized;
you now claiming localization for an object like the moon means it was hocum.

Borrowing from the words of Christ ,
"A city set on a mountain top cannot be hid".

Hence if truly your prophet spitted moon in God's name then it shouldn't have been localized because the moon in the first is a global phenomenon.

Which shows the illiteracy in those that wrote the verse!

Whatsoever that affects the moon now, perhaps an asteroid bombardment, will automatically be reflected(visible) when you view it through a microscope.

Which shows the authenticity and transparency of the things of God!

At least when Moses splitted the red sea.
The bible adds, "A strong east wind".

An even such a marvellous phenomenon has been found to reoccur but not in the vigour as it was written of Moses!

Thank God you admitted that your 5. point was far fetched.
It would have been interesting if perhaps you stated it occurred in an adults' body.


"And don't get me started on the material composition of the moon and your logical argument of rejoining falls flat"

Then based on scientific nuances it will be subjected to scrutiny and if found true will be accepted as a miracle but with the usual scientific explanations of why it is so!

Your whole narrative has changed from globalization to localization!

Initially you said they didn't record things in that time.
But with the subtle introduction of "paper" you changed it to "region".

Were there not other regions even before Arabia that wrote down things important?

At least the Egyptians come to mind

Hence using that is not a valid excuse.
You could as well have said: "cultural influences was the predominant theme"

And we all know that anything passed down with word of mouth is bound to change.

But yet you believe in the authenticity of the oral traditions as compared to written ones
👀

You can educate yourself as regards the history of language change as it is passed down.

Even experiments have shown that information passed along within a room gets distorted talk less of being passed down generation to generation!

As regards this particular miracle!
It's an hoax nothing more than Islamic propaganda!

I leave with you this.
"Global warming affects all not just region!"

Gabrielshow24:
Did you read what you wrote up there?

Let me point this out to you Incase it slipped your mind.

*Let me get it straight 🤔
You're arguing for regionalization in the context of the global variable!

I don't think you know the implications of what you just said!

It's like declaring a "global" variable and then arguing a function changed this variable only within the context of a closure!

But you missed the criteria "global".

If you didn't understand the programming analogy.
Let me it break down for you.

Objects like sun and moon are global!
Hence if something were to happen to these objects it will be seen by most if not all!

Because they are far placed in the sky that men from all places, depending on time, can see them.

Hence if the moon split like you said it won't be localized;
you now claiming localization for an object like the moon means it was hocum.

Borrowing from the words of Christ ,
"A city set on a mountain top cannot be hid".

Hence if truly your prophet spitted moon in God's name then it shouldn't have been localized because the moon in the first is a global phenomenon.

Which shows the illiteracy in those that wrote the verse!

Whatsoever that affects the moon now, perhaps an asteroid bombardment, will automatically be reflected(visible) when you view it through a microscope.

Which shows the authenticity and transparency of the things of God!

At least when Moses splitted the red sea.
The bible adds, "A strong east wind".

An even such a marvellous phenomenon has been found to reoccur but not in the vigour as it was written of Moses!

Thank God you admitted that your 5. point was far fetched.
It would have been interesting if perhaps you stated it occurred in an adults' body.


"And don't get me started on the material composition of the moon and your logical argument of rejoining falls flat"

Then based on scientific nuances it will be subjected to scrutiny and if found true will be accepted as a miracle but with the usual scientific explanations of why it is so!

Your whole narrative has changed from globalization to localization!

Initially you said they didn't record things in that time.
But with the subtle introduction of "paper" you changed it to "region".

Were there not other regions even before Arabia that wrote down things important?

At least the Egyptians come to mind

Hence using that is not a valid excuse.
You could as well have said: "cultural influences was the predominant theme"

And we all know that anything passed down with word of mouth is bound to change.

But yet you believe in the authenticity of the oral traditions as compared to written ones
👀

You can educate yourself as regards the history of language change as it is passed down.

Even experiments have shown that information passed along within a room gets distorted talk less of being passed down generation to generation!

As regards this particular miracle!
It's an hoax nothing more than Islamic propaganda!

I leave with you this.
"Global warming affects all not just region!"

Appreciate your fairly thought out response however can you tell me when the Sun was kept from setting at Gibeon as related in respect of Joshua 10:12-14?

More likely the stopping of the sun during Joshua’s battle was likely a localized effect at Gibeon rather than a global phenomenon.

Then again why do all parts of the world not experience the same amount of daylight from the Sun and night time?

In another case, does the Red sea traverse the whole world? Various inquiry about numerous narrations about the flood of Noah do not agree that it was a global event.

Then you seem to ignore that science and historical observation often doesn't agree with all religion says. If it did where then is the miracle?

honesttalk21:
Appreciate your fairly thought out response however can you tell me when the Sun was kept from setting at Gibeon as related in respect of Joshua 10:12-14?

More likely the stopping of the sun during Joshua’s battle was likely a localized effect at Gibeon rather than a global phenomenon.

Then again why do all parts of the world not experience the same amount of daylight from the Sun and night time?

In another case, does the Red sea traverse the whole world? Various inquiry about numerous narrations about the flood of Noah do not agree that it was a global event.

Then you seem to ignore that science and historical observation often doesn't agree with all religion says. If it did where then is the miracle?

I was expecting someone to bring up Joshua's stopping of the sun.

As regards biblical flood it is evident even in different civilizations and their remnants.
From the story of Gilgamesh etc it can be deduced that surely it was a global event.

Your thesis doesn't hold water because red sea is not a global variable.

Remind me again do we stare at it in the night sky?

Hence it's localized only to those present in that era. Only they could've confirmed it!
or records left of them!

Even though you want to talk about the "absurdity" of the sun stopping; it can't be compared to the absurdity of the moon's splitting.

Now let me address Joshua's miracle!
There are so many possibilities
1) the supposed "long day of Joshua" has parallels in various cultures from the incas to the Egyptians up to the Chinese but only one civilization failed to record there ever being a "long day", the Babylonians.

2) a solar eclipse!
3) reading the verse keenly what exactly was he stopping?
Do you think it was the sun or it's light?

The etymological meaning of the Hebrew word is the same word used in ancient times to depict when something loses it shine(paraphrased a little).

Which buttresses point no 2.

4) other ideas revolve around either the Earth stopping or slowing down.

5) heavenly reflection.
(God casting a mirage-👀)
But we all know our God is not a sharingan user like Allah!

Which seems to be his trademark from Jesus' apparent death to moon splitting to Dajal's throwing of people into hell(heaven) and finally deceiving many intentionally!

What a God!

Finally

It's totally different from the hocum attached to Mohammed!
-
Moon splitting.
that's why I asked first was it a lunar eclipse and a defender of your religion said no!

Even if your propaganda associated the moon stopping it would have been more tolerable that the moon splitting.

Which shows the short sightedness of such an insertion!

Gabrielshow24:
I was expecting someone to bring up Joshua's stopping of the sun.

As regards biblical flood it is evident even in different civilizations and their remnants.
From the story of Gilgamesh etc it can be deduced that surely it was a global event.

Your thesis doesn't hold water because red sea is not a global variable.

Remind me again do we stare at it in the night sky?

Hence it's localized only to those present in that era. Only they could've confirmed it!
or records left of them!

Even though you want to talk about the "absurdity" of the sun stopping; it can't be compared to the absurdity of the moon's splitting.

Now let me address Joshua's miracle!
There are so many possibilities
1) the supposed "long day of Joshua" has parallels in various cultures from the incas to the Egyptians up to the Chinese but only one civilization failed to record there ever being a "long day", the Babylonians.

2) a solar eclipse!
3) reading the verse keenly what exactly was he stopping?
Do you think it was the sun or it's light?

The etymological meaning of the Hebrew word is the same word used in ancient times to depict when something loses it shine(paraphrased a little).

Which buttresses point no 2.

4) other ideas revolve around either the Earth stopping or slowing down.

5) heavenly reflection.
(God casting a mirage-👀)
But we all know our God is not a sharingan user like Allah!

Which seems to be his trademark from Jesus' apparent death to moon splitting to Dajal's throwing of people into hell(heaven) and finally deceiving many intentionally!

What a God!

Finally

It's totally different from the hocum attached to Mohammed!
-
Moon splitting.
that's why I asked first was it a lunar eclipse and a defender of your religion said no!

Even if your propaganda associated the moon stopping it would have been more tolerable that the moon splitting.

Which shows the short sightedness of such an insertion!

The reality is I only try to enlighten you. I am not questioning the Sun not setting for Joshua but guiding you to see that the miracle of the moon was momentary for the people who observed it at Mecca. Definitely not all inhabitants of Mecca were gathered for this. You also agree that not all parts of the world simultaneously experience very lengthy days.

It probably is for this reason that a momentary splitting of the moon in one unique time for a short period seen by some people is in itself a non repeatable miracle.

Fundamentally the major means of transmitting information amongst the Arabians at this time too was oral or do you refute this?

Whether Noah's Flood is accepted to be global or local largely depends on individual beliefs about scripture versus scientific evidence. Traditional perspectives have largely maintained the interpretation of Noah's Flood as global, while most modern scientific consensus holds that it should be considered either as a local event or a mythical story not based on historical reality. Do not ignore community belief that they consist of the whole world when they haven't travelled elsewhere or interracted with people from other places.

In case you forget in the Bible it is written:

Isaiah 55:8-9 states: “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

You cannot fully define what God can and cannot do by your thinking.

honesttalk21:
The reality is I only try to enlighten you. I am not questioning the Sun not setting for Joshua but guiding you to see that the miracle of the moon was momentary for the people who observed it at Mecca. Definitely not all inhabitants of Mecca were gathered for this. You also agree that not all parts of the world simultaneously experience very lengthy days.

It probably is for this reason that a momentary splitting of the moon in one unique time for a short period seen by some people is in itself a non repeatable miracle.

Fundamentally the major means of transmitting information amongst the Arabians at this time too was oral or do you refute this?

Whether Noah's Flood is accepted to be global or local largely depends on individual beliefs about scripture versus scientific evidence. Traditional perspectives have largely maintained the interpretation of Noah's Flood as global, while most modern scientific consensus holds that it should be considered either as a local event or a mythical story not based on historical reality. Do not ignore community belief that they consist of the whole world when they haven't travelled elsewhere or interracted with people from other places.

I grab your sentiments of perspective!
I must commend your write up in passing it across but it still falls to one measly factor

The globality of the moon!

The implications of what you narrate screams "heavenly mirage" or "Allah's mangekyo sharingan"

Is that your verdict?

It was the "tradition" of Arabians to pass things down orally not disputing that.
Emphasis on "tradition"!

honesttalk21:
In case you forget in the Bible it is written:

Isaiah 55:8-9 states: “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

You cannot fully define what God can and cannot do by your thinking.

I appreciate the effort put into this discourse to prove Mohammed's miracle.

You only bring up verses like this when it suits you.
👀
I wonder why this verse was never used by a Muslim to accept Jesus' sonship?

Your cherry picking won't save you!

Gabrielshow24:
I grab your sentiments of perspective!
I must commend your write up in passing it across but it still falls to one measly factor

The globality of the moon!

The implications of what you narrate screams "heavenly mirage" or "Allah's mangekyo sharingan"

Is that your verdict?

It was the "tradition" of Arabians to pass things down orally not disputing that.
Emphasis on "tradition"!

You are within your rights to define my views as you like however you miss the point.
This miracle is not defined as a a global event but a sign shown to the people of Mecca.

Even though everyone around the world sees the same phase of the Moon at any given time, the way it appears with emphasis on its orientation and path across your sky varies significantly based on your geographical location. Then fundamentally you still are unable to appreciate that this was not an affair that lasted the entire night. It was a brief period. It was a brief event, just long enough for witnesses to observe the phenomenon.

Gabrielshow24:
I appreciate the effort put into this discourse to prove Mohammed's miracle.

You only bring up verses like this when it suits you.
👀
I wonder why this verse was never used by a Muslim to accept Jesus' sonship?

Your cherry picking won't save you!

You shouldn't see it this way as in many places Allah states he is beyond begeting a son or daughter or anything at all.

Seriously can you show native Jews that practice Judaism accepting that God literally begat Jesus (Yeshua) pbuh?

honesttalk21:
You are within your rights to define my views as you like however you miss the point.
This miracle is not defined as a a global event but a sign shown to the people of Mecca.

Even though everyone around the world sees the same phase of the Moon at any given time, the way it appears with emphasis on its orientation and path across your sky varies significantly based on your geographical location. Then fundamentally you still are unable to appreciate that this was not an affair that lasted the entire night. It was a brief period. It was a brief event, just long enough for witnesses to observe the phenomenon.



You shouldn't see it this way as in many places Allah states he is beyond begeting a son or daughter or anything at all.

Seriously can you show native Jews that practice Judaism accepting that God literally begat Jesus (Yeshua) pbuh?

Allah as quoted by Muhammad said that!
Did any of the people in the days of Muhammad hear Allah speak?

As in the case of God speaking to the inhabitants of Israel!

Jesus said "I and my Father are one"
"No one cometh unto the Father except through the son!"

That's a "spirit from God" talking from Islamic point of view👀

Anyone can claim Allah spoke to him!

Even in Christendom we have people that have done despicable things say/claim it was God(holy spirit) that spoke to them!

When their works is evident to the contrary!

You also fail to address that irrespective of the path the moon takes in the location as long as it is visible then all should see what happened to it.

It's just like saying Messi scored and the whole stadium didn't jubilate only to say that it was from my perspective. I thought he scored!

"Emphasis on global"
You can't nuke/detonate a bomb on the moon and the world won't see it!

Even if Allah's power is transcending to put it back the splitting in the first place it would be observed by all star gazers!

You just buttress the heavenly mirage more and more!

Gabrielshow24:
Allah as quoted by Muhammad said that!
Did any of the people in the days of Muhammad hear Allah speak?

As in the case of God speaking to the inhabitants of Israel!

Jesus said "I and my Father are one"
"No one cometh unto the Father except through the son!"

That's a "spirit from God" talking from Islamic point of view👀

Anyone can claim Allah spoke to him!

Even in Christendom we have people that have done despicable things say/claim it was God(holy spirit) that spoke to them!

When their works is evident to the contrary!

You also fail to address that irrespective of the path the moon takes in the location as long as it is visible then all should see what happened to it.

It's just like saying Messi scored and the whole stadium didn't jubilate only to say that it was from my perspective. I thought he scored!

"Emphasis on global"
You can't nuke/detonate a bomb on the moon and the world won't see it!

Even if Allah's power is transcending to put it back the splitting in the first place it would be observed by all star gazers!

You just buttress the heavenly mirage more and more!

Allah as quoted by Muhammad pbuh said what exactly?

honesttalk21:
Allah as quoted by Muhammad pbuh said what exactly?

That he begets neither is he begotten

Gabrielshow24:
That he begets neither is he begotten

The Quran is not the only religious text that disputes the idea of God begetting Jesus as a Son. In fact, various other religious traditions also reject this notion. For instance, Judaism, which predates Christianity, firmly believes in monotheism and denies the concept of a triune God. Jewish scriptures portray God as a singular and indivisible being, and the idea of a divine Son is viewed as contrary to this essential belief.

Moreover, other monotheistic faiths like Sikhism and Unitarianism also dismiss the doctrine of the Trinity and the notion of God having a Son. In Sikhism, for example, God is understood as a formless and genderless presence, and the belief in a divine Son is seen as inconsistent with the fundamental teachings of the religion.

honesttalk21:
The Quran is not the only religious text that disputes the idea of God begetting Jesus as a Son. In fact, various other religious traditions also reject this notion. For instance, Judaism, which predates Christianity, firmly believes in monotheism and denies the concept of a triune God. Jewish scriptures portray God as a singular and indivisible being, and the idea of a divine Son is viewed as contrary to this essential belief.

Moreover, other monotheistic faiths like Sikhism and Unitarianism also dismiss the doctrine of the Trinity and the notion of God having a Son. In Sikhism, for example, God is understood as a formless and genderless presence, and the belief in a divine Son is seen as inconsistent with the fundamental teachings of the religion.

You make it sound as if Jews were not well familiar with God having a spirit!

But they took the oneness of God - God and his spirit which he uses to guide men!

The idea of oneness in that form, becomes a debate " is God really one?"

Are there not two entities God and his spirit?

Now which means there are two major ways to look at it.

1)
Which means the concept of God encapsulates the spirit hence the spirit is just perhaps a fraction or the spirit is likewise an attribute of God and also God!
Or we employ another use of "and" to symbolize the same person! Hence God is the same as the spirit and vice versa, judging by this train of thought.



2) there are two entities from the literal interpretation of "and" showing a conjunction.

How then are they one?

Which starts leading to a lot of circular arguments that if God has a spirit then by that thought he is a composite being?

How then did the spirit come into existence?
Another question.

This has puzzled minds since the very beginning.

They prefer to say God is one but don't take necessary/critical inclusion of the spirit!

From the Quran "jibril" 👀 is the spirit!
Even they have an hard time reconciling this plot.

honesttalk21:
The Quran is not the only religious text that disputes the idea of God begetting Jesus as a Son. In fact, various other religious traditions also reject this notion. For instance, Judaism, which predates Christianity, firmly believes in monotheism and denies the concept of a triune God. Jewish scriptures portray God as a singular and indivisible being, and the idea of a divine Son is viewed as contrary to this essential belief.

Moreover, other monotheistic faiths like Sikhism and Unitarianism also dismiss the doctrine of the Trinity and the notion of God having a Son. In Sikhism, for example, God is understood as a formless and genderless presence, and the belief in a divine Son is seen as inconsistent with the fundamental teachings of the religion.

Mind you

You do so well to forget that if you are to reject God having a son then you must have infinite knowledge yourself!

This existential rejection based on preconceived notions is very evident even in the history of science.

Let's reason together!

show me how a limitless all-knowing God cannot beget a son?

If He was able to conceive the concept (begetting) which is visible in creation!

What stops him from having one!

Gabrielshow24:
You make it sound as if Jews were not well familiar with God having a spirit!

But they took the oneness of God - God and his spirit which he uses to guide men!

The idea of oneness in that form, becomes a debate " is God really one?"

Are there not two entities God and his spirit?

Now which means there are two major ways to look at it.

1)
Which means the concept of God encapsulates the spirit hence the spirit is just perhaps a fraction or the spirit is likewise an attribute of God and also God!
Or we employ another use of "and" to symbolize the same person! Hence God is the same as the spirit and vice versa, judging by this train of thought.



2) there are two entities from the literal interpretation of "and" showing a conjunction.

How then are they one?

Which starts leading to a lot of circular arguments that if God has a spirit then by that thought he is a composite being?

How then did the spirit come into existence?
Another question.

This has puzzled minds since the very beginning.

They prefer to say God is one but don't take necessary/critical inclusion of the spirit!

From the Quran "jibril" 👀 is the spirit!
Even they have an hard time reconciling this plot.

In the Talmud and various mystical writings, the soul is frequently referred to as a divine spark or a portion of God above.This perspective is consistent with Kabbalistic beliefs, especially in the teachings found in the Kabbalah and the Tanya, a significant Hasidic text. Here, the soul is viewed as a fragment of divinity embedded within humanity, highlighting a profound connection between the soul and God.

Conversely, Maimonides (Rambam), a prominent medieval Jewish philosopher, offers a different viewpoint. In his Guide for the Perplexed and other works, he underscores the soul as a distinct creation of God. Maimonides argues that while the soul has a divine origin, it does not partake in God's essence but exists independently. This perspective aligns with his rationalist approach, which differentiates between God’s transcendence and the created nature of human beings.

As a result, Jewish teachings present a range of perspectives, from the soul being a literal fragment of the divine to being a unique creation endowed with divine purpose yet separate from God’s essence. This complexity contributes to the ongoing discussion and spiritual significance surrounding the nature of the soul in Judaism.

Judaism holds that the idea of God having sons, particularly in relation to Jesus or any other figure is a fundamental contradiction to the monotheistic nature of God in Jewish belief.

Gabrielshow24:
You make it sound as if Jews were not well familiar with God having a spirit!

But they took the oneness of God - God and his spirit which he uses to guide men!

The idea of oneness in that form, becomes a debate " is God really one?"

Are there not two entities God and his spirit?

Now which means there are two major ways to look at it.

1)
Which means the concept of God encapsulates the spirit hence the spirit is just perhaps a fraction or the spirit is likewise an attribute of God and also God!
Or we employ another use of "and" to symbolize the same person! Hence God is the same as the spirit and vice versa, judging by this train of thought.



2) there are two entities from the literal interpretation of "and" showing a conjunction.

How then are they one?

Which starts leading to a lot of circular arguments that if God has a spirit then by that thought he is a composite being?

How then did the spirit come into existence?
Another question.

This has puzzled minds since the very beginning.

They prefer to say God is one but don't take necessary/critical inclusion of the spirit!

From the Quran "jibril" 👀 is the spirit!
Even they have an hard time reconciling this plot.

The Qur'an does not exclusively refer to Jibril as the Spirit or Holy Spirit. Although Jibril is often identified with the Ruh al-Qudus found in specific verses, the term Ruh is used in a broader context throughout the Qur'an. This opens the door to various interpretations and highlights the complex nature of spirit in Islam, where terms like Ruh encompass multiple meanings, such as life, revelation, and divine assistance.

Gabrielshow24:
Mind you

You do so well to forget that if you are to reject God having a son then you must have infinite knowledge yourself!

This existential rejection based on preconceived notions is very evident even in the history of science.

Let's reason together!

show me how a limitless all-knowing God cannot beget a son?

If He was able to conceive the concept (begetting) which is visible in creation!

What stops him from having one!

Allah does not limit Himself by neither having children or a son. In fact, the idea of Allah having children or a son is fundamentally at odds with His divine nature, attributes, and complete uniqueness.

The fact that Allah does not bear children or have a son is not a restriction but a declaration of His complete and transcendent perfection. The Qur'an conveys that Allah is beyond such needs and is entirely self-sufficient, highlighting His pure and perfect oneness.

TenQ:
You probably still don't understand me.

1. Antichristian and others like him do NOT believe the Bible. Thus, any evidence you give no matter how direct and plain is rejected. Thus for them, I use their Religious Literature of the Qur'an, the Hadiths and the Sirah
2. When debating Atheists of whatever kind who do not believe in my Bible, I use Science, Logic and Mathematics to speak to them.
3. For Christians and anyone willing to learn (even including the JW), I use the Bible to speak to them.

You can check my posts on NL.

I have shown him now that

He has the problem with the Prince of Persia delaying Gabriel
BUT
he thinks it is okay to believe that a small puppy dog can delay the wonderful words of the almighty Allah sent through the powerful angel Jibril!?

Just like Jesus, I have given him the answer he needs and he has fled the thread he created

Like the Question,
Is it lawful to give tax to Caesar?
Is not a theological debate according to Jesus

Well done bro
Don't mind that elated guy
God continue to increase you in wisdom and knowledge against the forces of darkness and mischief
I get your point and I endorse 100% 💯
Even Jesus taught us about hypocrites who have a log in their eyes but mind the speck in others

Kukutente23:
Well done bro
Don't mind that elated guy
God continue to increase you in wisdom and knowledge against the forces of darkness and mischief
I get your point and I endorse 100% 💯
Even Jesus taught us about hypocrites who have a log in their eyes but mind the speck in others

Thank you my Brother!
Muslims desperately want to make Islam sound true even with multiplicity of lies.
Since they work the work of their father the first Liar and Murderer, we used their testimonies of lies against them.

Stay blessed sir

It is obvious now that the hypocrite munafiq and kufr AntiChristian is actually anti-Islam because he just brings up points that end up ridiculing Islam.
Imagine opening a thread to ridicule Angel Gabriel's delay by the Prince of Persia when his Islam's messenger was delayed by a common dog as in ekuke.
Common bingo dey chase Allah's messenger away from his prophet which led the prophet to become suicidal. What ridicule can be bigger than this? .
I think true Islamists should call AntiChristian to order before he totally destroys what little is left of Islam on NL

MightySparrow:
I have held this view that is of no divine origin. Islam was triggered by Mohammed's greed, sex, and control. Of all the prophets, he performed unbelievable sexual practices - sodomy, sleeping with the dead, advocated for sex and had revelation about houris with insatiable sex drive in Aljaanah. Men with everlasting erection and women with sumptuous, tantalizing boobs powered by alcohol for endless orgy in the holy paradise of a sex maniac Allah

Is the religion correctly named Islam or Sexlam?

Almost everything Mohammad did was driven by his sexual urges. He was a great liar, plagiarist, tyrant, pervert, rapist, paedophile, caravan robber and mass murderer.

DeepSight:
Almost everything Mohammad did was driven by his sexual urges. He was a great liar, plagiarist, tyrant, pervert, rapist, paedophile, caravan robber and mass murderer.

I honestly don't know why such a person is permitted by God. I don't really know God's agenda through him. Of all religions, his own is toxic with funny doctrines. His lifestyle was that of a crook than a holy person.
Think about Gatama Bhuda, Confucius, the founder of Hinduism , all had their religion based on moral philosophy.
Ni one advocated for control and annihilation of human race.

Islam is a lie of the devil.

MightySparrow:
I honestly don't know why such a person is permitted by God. I don't really know God's agenda through him. Of all religions, his own is toxic with funny doctrines. His lifestyle was that of a crook than a holy person.
Think about Gatama Bhuda, Confucius, the founder of Hinduism , all had their religion based on moral philosophy.
Ni one advocated for control and annihilation of human race.

Islam is a lie of the devil.

It's a Christian heresy spun into a religion.

But Mohammed indeed was a copy cat🐈.

That's even if he actually existed👀.

Borrowing here and there!