₦airaland Forum

DeepSight:
The spirituality of our existence and our inner nature has been observed by man throughout the ages in a mostly subjective manner through experiences of the paranormal, predictive dreams, visions, out-of-body experiences, astral travel, near-death-experiences and many other such experiences. The nature of these experiences do not lend themselves to the scientific method easily because science is a discipline of physical things.

Such subjective experiences are valid even if incommunicable and I have personally had several such experiences in my life (the bold above) which overwhelmingly validate the intantigble and spiritual nature of my being. You will also find that most people have.

Nevertheless, to be clear, I cannot prove any of this to you.

Let us focus on spirits. You said spirits have been observed, I want to know by what means or methods.

LordReed:
Let us focus on spirits. You said spirits have been observed, I want to know by what means or methods.

By the aforestated means: dreams, visions, out-of-body experiences, astral travel and even sometimes directly through the spiritual faculties while awake and lucid.

Dtruthspeaker:
Clearly, they developed to deceive people and draw them to be anti Godism, since their earlier plans of arguing their anti.Godism did not work because God had already made the earth good.

So they moved around, invaded lands and taught people evilness and destroyed those lands and thereafter went back to develope their lands and make it "look good" while still destroying other lands like what IMF is doing to Nigeria.

So now everywhere that used to be good before is destroyed while the devils who caused the destruction are trying to make their own places look better.

Any reasonable person would ought to see this is clearly an ochestration and manipulation.

Meanwhile, God and prayer is a personal thing and He forewarned us that all.these shits were going to happen. And now they have happened, so all of you should leave God alone and go and save yourselves as you deem fit.

Your written English is terrible and you need to work on it.

Sp1ritHusband:
Who cares about Europe and others. They are all developed because they dumped religion while we are still a shithole praying to a sky daddy to solve our problems.

WRONG!
They all fought civil wars against oppression and they have to come together on a round table and plan ahead so that such won't reoccure that's why their leaders are cautious on policies but blacks only go to wars because of TRIBALISM hence our leaders keep using the same tactics to dominate and oppress their people.

DeepSight:
By the aforestated means: dreams, visions, out-of-body experiences, astral travel and even sometimes directly through the spiritual faculties while awake and lucid.

Right. So how can we distinguish for example a dream that involves a spirit and one that doesn't?

DeepSight:
It is not by mistake that "physics" as a word is a derivative of "physical." Thus the science of physics can only address the physical world.
There is reality beyond, before and after the physical.

The physical is not even as real as the non-physical.
Evidence of this rests in the transient nature of the physical.

The intangible and spiritual are much more real and abiding.
It is what you are, and you cannot change it.

You are not a physical being. You dwell only for a time in a physical encasement.

DeepSight, how you dey? Long time. Na we be the veterans for here o. anyway....

The adjective 'physical' is derived from the noun 'physics' which comes to us from the greek word 'Phusis', which just means Nature. Or at least that is one of its meanings. Other meanings pertain to nature too.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/physic

Therefore when Aristotle writes on what he calls Meta-Physics, he is writing about the world beyond nature. (Φυσικὴ, phusike).

plaetton:
I don't need to read the post to be able to refute the argument that mind is this or that.
It's like saying that information is independent of the source.
Brain ( matter) generates consciousness ( mind). Consciousness is not independent of the brain that generates it. A foetus becomes conscious only when the electrical activity in the brain reaches a certain voltage threshold.
Consciousness, a.k.a mind, is the product of electrical activity in the physical brain.
Brain injuries in different parts of the brain helps us to understand how mind, reality and perspective are controlled by the physical brain.
Even the ' spiritual experience ' is housed and controlled and affected by a certain portion of the brain.

Pls read up on Temporal Lobe Epilepsy and the Religious experience.

These are big claims kę!

DeepSight:
Your written English is terrible and you need to work on it.

I recollect way back in the dayz you mentioned starting to study Ancient Greek. Did you keep it up? if you did then there is something I would like to share with you. He is called Ammon Hillman. Look him up.

PastorAIO:
I recollect way back in the dayz you mentioned starting to study Ancient Greek. Did you keep it up? if you did then there is something I would like to share with you. He is called Ammon Hillman. Look him up.

I never started studying Greek at any point and certainly cant recall saying so. At best I have looked at the etymology of Greek terms in a concordance for better understanding of scipture.

DeepSight:
Your written English is terrible and you need to work on it.

Just say you wished you were the one who observed this system.

PastorAIO:
DeepSight, how you dey? Long time. Na we be the veterans for here o. anyway....

The adjective 'physical' is derived from the noun 'physics' which comes to us from the greek word 'Phusis', which just means Nature. Or at least that is one of its meanings. Other meanings pertain to nature too.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/physic

Therefore when Aristotle writes on what he calls Meta-Physics, he is writing about the world beyond nature. (Φυσικὴ, phusike).

Thank you. I sha meant the words are related.

PastorAIO:
DeepSight, how you dey? Long time. Na we be the veterans for here o. anyway....

The adjective 'physical' is derived from the noun 'physics' which comes to us from the greek word 'Phusis', which just means Nature. Or at least that is one of its meanings. Other meanings pertain to nature too.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/physic

Therefore when Aristotle writes on what he calls Meta-Physics, he is writing about the world beyond nature. (Φυσικὴ, phusike).

The physical is part of nature. And Aristotle's metaphysics still studied physicals of varying qualities in the end whereas the word "beyond nature" is wide and ambious and can refer to things not physical and eg spirit, soul etc.

PastorAIO its been ages. How bodi.
Those days were the days ooooh.

So many quality posters I miss, you being at the head of the pack.

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you're saying.

Dtruthspeaker:
The physical is part of nature. And Aristotle's metaphysics still studied physicals of varying qualities in the end whereas the word "beyond nature" is wide and ambious and can refer to things not physical and eg spirit, soul etc.

DeepSight:
PastorAIO its been ages. How bodi.
Those days were the days ooooh.

So many quality posters I miss, you being at the head of the pack.

Yeah, that was quite an era. Internet forums were a new thing then. But I nor go lie, it was sometimes a total waste of time a potentials. It was an addiction. If to say I exert the energy wey I spend for here to chase money instead I would be in a better place financially. But still it was fun...

PastorAIO:
Yeah, that was quite an era. Internet forums were a new thing then. But I nor go lie, it was sometimes a total waste of time a potentials. It was an addiction. If to say I exert the energy wey I spend for here to chase money instead I would be in a better place financially. But still it was fun...

If we put together the posts we did back then, we should have a veritable volume titled History, Theology and Philosophy: Selected Polemics.

Where are they all?

Mazaje, thehomer, viaro, nuclearboy, Huxley, Tudor, Banom, Krayola, Kay16, Enigma, Inesqor, KAG, Prizm, Toneyb, logicboy, Jesoul, Mnwankwo, Justcool, Martian, Pilgrim1 (alleged by some to be Viaro), Davidylan, Noetic16, even the Islamic renegade Abuzola.

Do you remember this thread:

https://www.nairaland.com/335826/pastor-aio-come-teach-us

God, I did so many threads "interviewing" posters here.

LordReed:
Right. So how can we distinguish for example a dream that involves a spirit and one that doesn't?

Hello Reed,

Now, I am going to make an exception in my usual approach. I usually try to communicate based on logic and with premises that build an argument. However this question you have asked, I sense is a sincere inquiry and not an argumentative one. And even if it happens to be argumentative, I have decided to approach it differently. So in this instance, I will make an exception and simply share my personal experiences with regard to your question. In doing so, I risk being seen as perhaps deluded or even psychotic but no matter, I am not one to be bothered what people think of me. So here goes.

In terms of dreams, a spiritual dream is recognized by its very nature - it often comes out of the blue and out of sync with the petty matters of everyday life. Our nature is such that as we sleep off, all the matters in our minds begin to play around in our subconscious and often crop up as dreams of this and that everyday matter. These dreams are run of the mill and are of the physical and mental realm only. Dreams which involve the spirit are often strikingly different. In my personal experience these elements tend to pop up:

1. The dream is strikingly real and feels like something that has happened in real life, not just like a dream

2. The dream often involves symbols, and very often other-worldly creatures and beings unknown to this world

3. The dream presents you with abnormal powers and capacities

4. The dream predicts the future with uncanny accuracy

Since I was a child I have had a steady flow of dreams which predict the future with staggering accuracy, and this has become a normal part of my life. It is way too consistent and way too accurate for me to ignore or deny it, so much so that I know that there is little that can happen around me which I do not see ahead in a dream. I have repeatedly told people around me exactly what will happen in their lives in a short while, or who will die suddenly, and unfailingly it comes to pass in staggering detail. This kind of thing enables me to know that these are not run off the mill dreams, which often just involve spatterings or memory and daily activities playing around in one's mind.

Let me move deeper. At a point, I began to have the ability to be lucid in my dreams. This is called lucid dreaming and it is a state where one is in a dream and one is aware that it is a dream. When I began to master the art, I would recognise that I am in a dream and then be able to take control of the dream and go to spiritual locations and observe events and places which one cannot access in the waking world.

This led me to gradually begin my first astral travels, because I realized that in that state, I could begin to float in what appears to be a world-ether and go to varying places and interact with other beings. I realized this was real when I began to go to places far away from my home and the next day, be able to recount to the people there exactly what transpired where they where, and who did what, etc - with accuracy. This has left people around me doumfounded and I know its something very real - it's not a trick of the mind.

Let me add that I am not special in this regard, almost everyone has these capacities, people just key into them at varying levels or not at all.

The spiritual is very real. However these things are beyond what can be argued or proven with normal logic and certainly not with science as we know it. Maybe a day will come when we will evolve to a level of science that addresses such things. Let me stop here.

Try and see the movie "Behind her eyes" on Netflix. It gives a very clear idea of the sort of thing I am talking about in terms of astral presence and astral travel.

DeepSight:
Hello Reed,

Now, I am going to make an exception in my usual approach. I usually try to communicate based on logic and with premises that build an argument. However this question you have asked, I sense is a sincere inquiry and not an argumentative one. And even if it happens to be argumentative, I have decided to approach it differently. So in this instance, I will make an exception and simply share my personal experiences with regard to your question. In doing so, I risk being seen as perhaps deluded or even psychotic but no matter, I am not one to be bothered what people think of me. So here goes.

In terms of dreams, a spiritual dream is recognized by its very nature - it often comes out of the blue and out of sync with the petty matters of everyday life. Our nature is such that as we sleep off, all the matters in our minds begin to play around in our subconscious and often crop up as dreams of this and that everyday matter. These dreams are run of the mill and are of the physical and mental realm only. Dreams which involve the spirit are often strikingly different. In my personal experience these elements tend to pop up:

1. The dream is strikingly real and feels like something that has happened in real life, not just like a dream

2. The dream often involves symbols, and very often other-worldly creatures and beings unknown to this world

3. The dream presents you with abnormal powers and capacities

4. The dream predicts the future with uncanny accuracy

Since I was a child I have had a steady flow of dreams which predict the future with staggering accuracy, and this has become a normal part of my life. It is way too consistent and way too accurate for me to ignore or deny it, so much so that I know that there is little that can happen around me which I do not see ahead in a dream. I have repeatedly told people around me exactly what will happen in their lives in a short while, or who will die suddenly, and unfailingly it comes to pass in staggering detail. This kind of thing enables me to know that these are not run off the mill dreams, which often just involve spatterings or memory and daily activities playing around in one's mind.

Let me move deeper. At a point, I began to have the ability to be lucid in my dreams. This is called lucid dreaming and it is a state where one is in a dream and one is aware that it is a dream. When I began to master the art, I would recognise that I am in a dream and then be able to take control of the dream and go to spiritual locations and observe events and places which one cannot access in the waking world.

This led me to gradually begin my first astral travels, because I realized that in that state, I could begin to float in what appears to be a world-ether and go to varying places and interact with other beings. I realized this was real when I began to go to places far away from my home and the next day, be able to recount to the people there exactly what transpired where they where, and who did what, etc - with accuracy. This has left people around me doumfounded and I know its something very real - it's not a trick of the mind.

Let me add that I am not special in this regard, almost everyone has these capacities, people just key into them at varying levels or not at all.

The spiritual is very real. However these things are beyond what can be argued or proven with normal logic and certainly not with science as we know it. Maybe a day will come when we will evolve to a level of science that addresses such things. Let me stop here.

Try and see the movie "Behind her eyes" on Netflix. It gives a very clear idea of the sort of thing I am talking about in terms of astral presence and astral travel.

Thanks for your reply. This is a lot to take in so I will take my time to respond.

PastorAIO:
I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you're saying.

It is in English and in direct response to your comment, how to can you not understand it?

DeepSight:
Hello Reed,

Now, I am going to make an exception in my usual approach. I usually try to communicate based on logic and with premises that build an argument. However this question you have asked, I sense is a sincere inquiry and not an argumentative one. And even if it happens to be argumentative, I have decided to approach it differently. So in this instance, I will make an exception and simply share my personal experiences with regard to your question. In doing so, I risk being seen as perhaps deluded or even psychotic but no matter, I am not one to be bothered what people think of me. So here goes.

In terms of dreams, a spiritual dream is recognized by its very nature - it often comes out of the blue and out of sync with the petty matters of everyday life. Our nature is such that as we sleep off, all the matters in our minds begin to play around in our subconscious and often crop up as dreams of this and that everyday matter. These dreams are run of the mill and are of the physical and mental realm only. Dreams which involve the spirit are often strikingly different. In my personal experience these elements tend to pop up:

1. The dream is strikingly real and feels like something that has happened in real life, not just like a dream

2. The dream often involves symbols, and very often other-worldly creatures and beings unknown to this world

3. The dream presents you with abnormal powers and capacities

4. The dream predicts the future with uncanny accuracy

Since I was a child I have had a steady flow of dreams which predict the future with staggering accuracy, and this has become a normal part of my life. It is way too consistent and way too accurate for me to ignore or deny it, so much so that I know that there is little that can happen around me which I do not see ahead in a dream. I have repeatedly told people around me exactly what will happen in their lives in a short while, or who will die suddenly, and unfailingly it comes to pass in staggering detail. This kind of thing enables me to know that these are not run off the mill dreams, which often just involve spatterings or memory and daily activities playing around in one's mind.

Let me move deeper. At a point, I began to have the ability to be lucid in my dreams. This is called lucid dreaming and it is a state where one is in a dream and one is aware that it is a dream. When I began to master the art, I would recognise that I am in a dream and then be able to take control of the dream and go to spiritual locations and observe events and places which one cannot access in the waking world.

This led me to gradually begin my first astral travels, because I realized that in that state, I could begin to float in what appears to be a world-ether and go to varying places and interact with other beings. I realized this was real when I began to go to places far away from my home and the next day, be able to recount to the people there exactly what transpired where they where, and who did what, etc - with accuracy. This has left people around me doumfounded and I know its something very real - it's not a trick of the mind.

Let me add that I am not special in this regard, almost everyone has these capacities, people just key into them at varying levels or not at all.

The spiritual is very real. However these things are beyond what can be argued or proven with normal logic and certainly not with science as we know it. Maybe a day will come when we will evolve to a level of science that addresses such things. Let me stop here.

Try and see the movie "Behind her eyes" on Netflix. It gives a very clear idea of the sort of thing I am talking about in terms of astral presence and astral travel.

I believe you 100 percent. I am also spiritually gifted but mine is no longer as frequent as it used to be, I started having poor dream recollection in my middle teens.
I want to ask, do you meditate? Are there factors that you think can heighten or retrogress spiritual gifts?

fredwill1357:
I believe you 100 percent. I am also spiritually gifted but mine is no longer as frequent as it used to be, I started having poor dream recollection in my middle teens.
I want to ask, do you meditate? Are there factors that you think can heighten or retrogress spiritual gifts?

Tell me more and I will tell you more.

This thing I am saying is not a joke. It's very real.

DeepSight:
By the aforestated means: dreams, visions, out-of-body experiences, astral travel and even sometimes directly through the spiritual faculties while awake and lucid.

There is no way that you and I, or any 2 people can have the very same dreams, visions, out of body experiences and then arrive at the same interpretations.
That means that such experiences might occur as a result of complex fluxes in brain chemistry, memories, physical and mental stress and the general make up of your psyche.

Just like God, what you see or believe has it's origins in your psyche.

DeepSight:
Tell me more and I will tell you more.

This thing I am saying is not a joke. It's very real.

I'm sure you have heard of psychosomatic illnesses.
These are illnesses, pains or aches, although felt by the individual, shows no confirmation on any medication diagnosis or tests. They have their origins in the psyche.
I believe that lucid dreaming, visions and so-called spiritual experiences fall into the category of psychosomatic phenomena.

PastorAIO:
Yeah, that was quite an era. Internet forums were a new thing then. But I nor go lie, it was sometimes a total waste of time a potentials. It was an addiction. If to say I exert the energy wey I spend for here to chase money instead I would be in a better place financially. But still it was fun...

Indeed sir.

Long time.
Good to see you again.

plaetton:
There is no way that you and I, or any 2 people can have the very same dreams, visions, out of body experiences and then arrive at the same interpretations.
That means that such experiences might occur as a result of complex fluxes in brain chemistry, memories, physical and mental stress and the general make up of your psyche.

Just like God, what you see or believe has it's origins in your psyche.

Please I would like to know if you have had an OBE before?

PastorAIO:
These are big claims kę!

Salutations sir.

Even when put in my own words, there is no claim I made here for which modern empirical studies do not support.

Catscans, MRIs ,etc, show us that all emotions and mental experiences carry or are simply unique electrical signals or impulses.

triplechoice:
Please I would like to know if you have had an OBE before?

I certainly have.
Many times.
Not only did I have them frequently in the past, but I actually began to take notes by my bedside and catalogue them.

DeepSight:
We both agree that the constructs of God contained in religion is mostly false. We both have a very dim vim of the Abrahamic God in particular. Nonetheless I think you know very well my position that an eternal and transcendental element necessarily exists, and which, I refer to as God.

To be clear, I don't believe that element created this world.

@bolded
Can you say more about this element? Is it conscious? Is it intelligent? Are its actions mechanical, is it amoral? etc.
You could share a post where you addressed these already .

plaetton:
I certainly have.
Many times.
Not only did I have them frequently in the past, but I actually began to take notes by my bedside and catalogue them.

I carefully noted when they occurred, my mental and physical state when they occurred, and any other discernable patterns associated with the experience.
One thing I did notice was that the experiences tended to occur during periods of physical exhaustion and mental alertness.
In other words, when the body is physically exhausted but the mind is overactive, mostly by stress or anxiety.
On at least 2 occasions when I found myself in this dual condition in the middle of the night, I tried and successfully induced an out of body experience and was semi-conscious throughout the experience.

And of course, at the end if it all, being honest to myself, I wondered and still wonder whether those experiences were real or just my own interpretations of something going on within my psyche at that period in my life.

plaetton:
I carefully noted when they occurred, the mental and physical state when the occurred, and any other discernable patterns associated with the experience.
One thing I did notice was that the experiences tended to occur during periods of physical exhaustion and mental alertness.
In other words, when thr body is physical exhausted but the mind is overactive, mostly by stress or anxiety.
On at least occasions when I found myself in this dual condition in the middle of the night, I tried and successfully induced an out of body experience and was semi-conscious throughout the experience.

And of course, at the end if it all, being honest to myself, I wondered and still wonder whether those experiences were real or just my own interpretations of something going on within my psyche at that period in my life.

Thanks for your response.
It's possible to know if what you experienced were real or a creation of your mind.

An out of OBE that's real must be connected to an appropriate source outside yourself because all of live is linked, both the visible and invisible.

But when there are no such connections then the experience is just a movie created by your mind to relieve you of stress

but av told wirinet that being an atheist or becoming an atheist while poor and trying to survive nigeria doesnt make sense

i must admit that am becoming more theistic and sincerely religious, at least by hoping that attending church service will bring some good news

but at the same time

some of the other church members keep asking me to pray more,pay tithes, fast,etc



what does it mean?

it means i'm in a precarious,pathetic,drastic,acute
,dangerous,inevitable,
excruciating,magnanimously complex,spontaneously erratic
and bombastically twisted conundrum or debacle!


my birth name is victor omerigwe for no reason

i have rejected the middle name i was given by my parents becuz itz useless to my comfort,success and joy.



at the moment, i don't believe in the existence of the universe.

i find belief in god as something relevant among humans at least.

thatz why atheists still talk about it.


is getting rich a reason to describe faith in god as useless?


well, it can be required of you to exercise or demonstrate faith in god by whoever it is at anytime

yeah,just becuz god is god, no matter your financial status.


having considered these issues, i consider my silence as the most appropriate or befitting response to my own existence as myself.

DeepSight:
You are not your body. Your body is a shell, a biological machine which enables you to work in the physical world.

Having studied hundreds of messages purported to have been communicated by "dead" people through mediums, describing their environments, I've come to believe that physicality is a matter of where one is looking from.

1. They say they inhabit a physical world that is as solid and physical as here on earth. Their houses are solid and they cannot pass through it just as we can't walk through our houses.
2. When they visit the earth plane (here), our houses and other things that make up our physical world are misty and insubstantial to them and they can easily see through or pass through our walls because it is not physical to them.
3. They have a body that is as physical to touch and sight as their former earth body. This body is not just a vacuum, it is a biological machine that contains internal organs like brain, heart, lungs, blood etc though some organs are not present such as the reproductive and digestive organs.

So, from our perspective, we're material while they're immaterial but from their perspective they're material while we and our world are immaterial.