₦airaland Forum

gaskiyamagana:
I agree with you and l pity those who don't agree with you that Islam has no answer to 'its conjectures' out of your convulsive state and corrosive reasoning, thinking and conclusion.

TenQ:
How many Khalil exist in the whole world?
How many Awliyah exist in the whole world?

And you still think they are synonyms!?
A Muslim will continue to struggle against the truth: it is their nature!


I did not ask you if Ibrahim was pious or not.
1. Who made Ibrahim the Friend of Allah? Does God NEED a friend? Is this a kind of dependency?
2. Do you think any human being is qualified to make himself a friend of Allah?
3. Does Allah have the right and power to make anyone of his obedient creatures his friend?
4. Is the friendship of Allah with Ibrahim physical or spiritual?



https://www.abuaminaelias.com/dailyhadithonline/2011/04/21/allah-is-khalil-prophet/

Check if this is Maudu or Sahih in grade. Can you see how muslim scholars are confused as their followers


No sir.
Riyad as-Salihin 423 shows Allah saying that he wants a people who would commit sin BUT ask for forgiveness.
If a people refuse to commit sins, Allah will destroy them and replace them with people who would commit sins BUT ask for forgiveness.

You cannot reinterpret what is so plainly said!

Riyad as-Salihin 423
Abu Ayyub Khalid bin Zaid (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "Were you not to commit sins, Allah would create people who would commit sins and ask for forgiveness and He would forgive them".




My scope with you is NOT about Awliyah nor Wali BUT Khalil as only Allah can call a person Khalilullah.

At least you have concurred that not even Mohammed with all his piety and religion is the Khalil of Allah. The best Mohammed is, is as an Awliyah of Allah.

Does it diminish Allah to choose Abraham (a sinner) as a friend?
Does it connote a dependency of Allah to choose Abraham (a sinner) as a friend?

You Muslims refuse to note that just as Allah chose Abraham as a friend, he could have said: Abraham is my son and there is NOTHING anyone could have said about it.

TenQ:
How many Khalil exist in the whole world?
How many Awliyah exist in the whole world?

And you still think they are synonyms!?
A Muslim will continue to struggle against the truth: it is their nature!


I did not ask you if Ibrahim was pious or not.
1. Who made Ibrahim the Friend of Allah? Does God NEED a friend? Is this a kind of dependency?
2. Do you think any human being is qualified to make himself a friend of Allah?
3. Does Allah have the right and power to make anyone of his obedient creatures his friend?
4. Is the friendship of Allah with Ibrahim physical or spiritual?

Ohyoudidnt:
You seem to like repetition. Did I not agree that Muhammad pbuh is a Khalil by your second hadith? The issue of sonshhip is total contradiction to the nature if Allah.

Ohyoudidnt:
How do you become a friend of Allah?

Ohyoudidnt:
By doing what he wants. It is not a sudden destination but a continuous process.
It is by the will of Allah however Ibrahim a s actively worked for this in submission not with the set goal of becoming a Khalil. This is a major plus.

I had answered you that the friendship was both physical and spiritual.

I didn't say synonyms but they are stages of friendship. One is higher than the other.

TenQ:
Only Allah can make a person Khalilullah, no amount of piety can make you qualified for this status.


The best any muslim can become is an Awliyah


Is it untrue that Mohammed is the best Muslim?
If this was true, why is Mohammed NOT a Khalilullah?


If this was true, why is any of the "Rightly Guided Caliphs" NOT a Khalilullah?
If this was true, why is Bilal NOT a Khalilullah?

TenQ:
No sir.
You disbelieved in the hadith as Maudu.

Ohyoudidnt:
You first start with a fabricated hadith then the other however you fail to understand that the primary book for Muslims doesn't describe prophet Muhammad pbuh in this way.

The Qur'an presents the Prophet Muhammad pbuh in various ways, emphasizing his role as the final messenger, a mercy for all beings, and a guiding example for the faithful:

"Indeed, you have in the Messenger of Allah an excellent example for anyone who hopes in Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah often."Quran 33:21

Hadith literature enhances the understanding of the Qur'an by offering deeper insights into the life and significance of the Prophet pbuh. Sahih Muslim 532 is considered authentic in its context and highlights the Prophet's pbuh esteemed position, which is consistent with the overarching themes of Islamic theology. The term "Khalil" underscores his intimate relationship with Allah, yet it does not conflict with the Qur'anic message; it merely lacks explicit confirmation in those precise words.

TenQ:
Sunan Ibn Majah 141
" The Messenger of Allah said:'[s]Allah has taken me as a close friend (Khalil)[/s]as He took Ibrahim as a close friend. [s]So my house and the house of Ibrahim will be opposite to one another on the Day of Resurrection[s], [s]and 'Abbas will be in between us,[s]a believer between two close friends.'"( Maudu)


Sahih Muslim 532 http://pureislam.net/HadeethTexts/Index/287
Jundub ibn ‘Abdullāh (may Allah be pleased with him) reported: I heard the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) five (nights) before he died, saying: "I stand acquitted before Allah that I took anyone of you as an intimate friend, for Allah has taken me as an intimate friend just as he took Ibrahīm as an intimate friend. Had I taken anyone from my nation as an intimate friend, I would have taken Abu Bakr as an intimate friend. Beware! Those who were before you used to take the graves of their prophets as places for prayer. Beware! Do not take tombs as places for prayer, for I forbid you to do so."
https://hadeethenc.com/en/browse/hadith/3347

Ohyoudidnt:
Interesting. You don't believe the Sahih Muslim 532 you shared?

Prophet Muhammad pbuh is often referred to as Habibullah (the Beloved of Allah). While khalil implies deep friendship, habib denotes the most beloved relationship.

Bilal ibn Rabah r.a is highly regarded by Allah as one of the first Muslims, representing resilience and being a companion assured of Paradise. His life is a powerful testament to how steadfast faith and dedication can uplift an individual both in this life and in the Hereafter.


O Bilal, I heard your footsteps in Paradise ahead of me."(Sahih al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim)
This incredible honor reflects Bilal’s exalted status with Allah due to his acts of worship, particularly his consistent habit of performing voluntary prayers after ablution.

TenQ:
All the questions I asked you had a yes or no answer. You answered every other questions except the ones I asked you.


Is it untrue that Only Allah can make a person Khalilullah, no amount of piety can make you qualified for this status.

TenQ:
Only Allah can make a person Khalilullah, no amount of piety can make you qualified for this status.


The best any muslim can become is an Awliyah


Is it untrue that Mohammed is the best Muslim?
If this was true, why is Mohammed NOT a Khalilullah?


If this was true, why is any of the "Rightly Guided Caliphs" NOT a Khalilullah?
If this was true, why is Bilal NOT a Khalilullah?

Ohyoudidnt:
Is the emboldened contradictory?



You are making a statement not a question isn't it?

Then you placed Auliya (plural for Wali) in what position relative to Khalilulah?

TenQ:
You should thank me for teaching you that your prophet consider himself a Khalilullah. Don't forget that
1. You first said that I should prove it
2. After I gave you hadiths, you said the hadiths were Maudu
3. With further corroborating with Islamic sites you have accepted that your prophet is also Khalilullah


The bottom line is that
Allah is certainly NOT the same person as YHWH the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. As YHWH do appoint SONS but Allah CANNOT.

One of the greatest deception in Islam is the verse below. On this assumption all of Islam hang

Quran 29:46
Do not argue with the People of the Book except only by the best manner, except the unjust among them. Tell them, "We believe in what is revealed to us and to you. Our Lord and your Lord is one. We have submitted ourselves to His will".

Ohyoudidnt:
[/quote][quote author=Ohyoudidnt post=132947609]You first start with a fabricated hadith then the other however you fail to understand that the primary book for Muslims doesn't describe prophet Muhammad pbuh in this way.

The Qur'an presents the Prophet Muhammad pbuh in various ways, emphasizing his role as the final messenger, a mercy for all beings, and a guiding example for the faithful:

"Indeed, you have in the Messenger of Allah an excellent example for anyone who hopes in Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah often."Quran 33:21

Hadith literature enhances the understanding of the Qur'an by offering deeper insights into the life and significance of the Prophet pbuh. Sahih Muslim 532 is considered authentic in its context and highlights the Prophet's pbuh esteemed position, which is consistent with the overarching themes of Islamic theology. The term "Khalil" underscores his intimate relationship with Allah, yet it does not conflict with the Qur'anic message; it merely lacks explicit confirmation in those precise words.

Ohyoudidnt:
How do you read?

TenQ:
I think we should end this debate at this point.

But I want you highlight the fact that

The bottom line is that
Allah is certainly NOT the same person as YHWH the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. As YHWH do appoint SONS but Allah CANNOT.

One of the greatest deception in Islam is the verse below. On this assumption all of Islam hang

Quran 29:46
Do not argue with the People of the Book except only by the best manner, except the unjust among them. Tell them, "We believe in what is revealed to us and to you. Our Lord and your Lord is one. We have submitted ourselves to His will".

Ohyoudidnt:
Indeed your concept of who Allah or God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is where the problem is.

Allah doesn't consider anyone in the light of sonship even if it is spiritual.
The Jews definition of sonship in symbolic not as you Christians or let's say Tenq places Jesus as they have no agreement with you that Jesus was with Allah from the onset and participating in creation.

Fundamental we have different theological thoughts and it's best we respectfully live it at that.

Have a good day.

TenQ:
Have a nice day!

But its not my concept of God, it is the concept of God in the earlier revealed scriptures.
Allah does not punish his prophets for any sin unlike YHWH who exposes and punishes even His prophets

YHWH can enter His creation but Allah cannot enter his creation.

There are so many differences between Allah and YHWH to conclude that they are not the same Being.


Again, please have a nice day.

Ohyoudidnt:
Indeed you stay on the beat for more banter over varied ideology. I have stated we have different theological ideas/philosophy.


In Islam, prophets are viewed as morally exemplary figures who are protected and serve as ideal role models for humanity. Any corrections they receive are seen as acts of divine mercy rather than punishment. In contrast, Judaism and Christianity depict prophets as flawed individuals who learn and grow from their mistakes, illustrating God's justice alongside His mercy. Both perspectives emphasize different facets of the divine relationship with humanity: Islam focuses on mercy and guidance, while the Judeo-Christian tradition highlights justice and redemption. These distinctions reflect the broader theological principles inherent in each faith.

TenQ:
You make my point sir.
Meaning that Allah and YHWH are not the same personality!
YHWH punishes even his prophets when they commit sins unlike Allah!

Ohyoudidnt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9q_b9UvfBY?si=66SiZxEttwF_W1O4


Thanks

TenQ:
According to Allah, this original gods of Israel is himself!
SMH!

Is the verse below UNTRUE?
Quran 29:46
Do not argue with the People of the Book except only by the best manner, except the unjust among them. Tell them, "We believe in what is revealed to us and to you. Our Lord and your Lord is one. We have submitted ourselves to His will".

Ohyoudidnt:
No!

The phrase "Our Lord and your Lord is One" aims to bring the People of the Book back to the original, untainted monotheistic faith that their Prophets shared.

TenQ:
Muslims can tell lies for the continent of Africa

Why then do you submit to him (the God of the people of the book)

Quran 29:46
Do not argue with the People of the Book except only by the best manner, except the unjust among them. Tell them, "We believe in what is revealed to us and to you. Our Lord and your Lord is one. We have submitted ourselves to His will".


You are consumed by your own deception!

Ohyoudidnt:
The Quran acknowledges previous scriptures such as the Torah and the Gospel while also addressing inaccuracies that arose in their interpretations:

"And because of their breaking their covenant, We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded."
(Surah Al-Ma'idah, 5:13).

A clear example in line with our most current discussion is the difference in view of son of God between Jews and Christians. One is symbolic and the other divine.

TenQ:
Don't change the subject!

Is it untrue your Quran says "We have submitted ourselves to His will".

Ohyoudidnt:
Who is in his will?

The God with symbolic sons? The God with divine sons? The God that bears no sons?

TenQ:
Let Allah speak for you sir!

Quran 29:46
Do not argue with the People of the Book except only by the best manner, except the unjust among them. Tell them, "We believe in what is revealed to us and to you. Our Lord and your Lord is one. We have submitted ourselves to His will".


You are consumed by your own deception!

Ohyoudidnt:
Sorry you are no longer speaking for Muslims with superior understanding of the Quran verses to them?

This verse highlights the shared monotheistic foundation between Islam and the People of the Book (Jews and Christians). It stresses the unity of Allah (God), who revealed scriptures to all Prophets, including those sent to the Israelites, such as Musa (Moses) and 'Isa (Jesus). It emphasizes that Islam recognizes the same One God worshipped by these earlier communities, rejecting any polytheistic interpretations or distortions of divine understanding.

"Yahweh" is the name used in Jewish scripture to refer to God, derived from the tetragrammaton (YHWH). Historically, this name was central to monotheistic worship among the Israelites. While some modern scholars propose links between early Israelite practices and surrounding polytheistic cultures, Islamic theology does not accept these assertions. Instead, it maintains that the God worshipped by true monotheists among the Israelites, referred to as "Allah" in Arabic, is the same Allah mentioned in the Quran.

Islamic understanding firmly denies any polytheistic origins of Allah. The Quran often critiques and corrects the distortions of earlier revelations, affirming the principle of pure monotheism (Tawhid). The phrase "Our Lord and your Lord is One" aims to reconnect the People of the Book with the original, uncorrupted monotheistic belief that their Prophets conveyed.

TenQ:
Is the words of Allah precise and adequate for communication to mankind?

If it is, there is no need for other tafsirs other than what Allah has said: except you wish to correct Allah


Therefore, Let Allah speak for you sir!

Quran 29:46
Do not argue with the People of the Book except only by the best manner, except the unjust among them. Tell them, "We believe in what is revealed to us and to you. Our Lord and your Lord is one. We have submitted ourselves to His will".


Except you think you are better than Allah in communication, then have your way!

Ohyoudidnt:
In whichever way it suits you please. Nevertheless you obviously know:

The concept of Jesus as the Son of God and a member of the Trinity poses a theological challenge to strict monotheistic beliefs, such as those found in Judaism and Islam, which stress the oneness and indivisibility of God. The Christian doctrine of the Trinity a view comprising the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three distinct persons within one divine essence differs greatly from the strictly unitary view of God upheld in other monotheistic faiths.

For strict monotheists, the notion that God can exist as three persons while remaining one being may appear contradictory. This distinction is seen as undermining the absolute oneness of God.

The belief that Jesus is both fully divine and fully human is another contentious issue. Many monotheists find the idea of God taking on human form incompatible with the divine nature, which they perceive as transcendent and beyond human limitations.

The act of worshiping Jesus alongside the Father and the Holy Spirit can be viewed as a departure from the exclusive devotion to one God, which is central to monotheistic traditions like Islam and Judaism.

From a Christian viewpoint, the doctrine of the Trinity is understood as a revelation of God's nature rather than a contradiction of monotheism. Christians maintain that the Trinity does not suggest three gods but rather one God in three persons, each fully divine and sharing the same essence.

The New Testament refers to Jesus as the "Son of God" and describes the Holy Spirit as divine, providing a theological foundation for the Trinity. For Christians, this is a mystery of faith that goes beyond human logic but is not inherently illogical.

Judaism firmly adheres to the Shema: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one" (Deuteronomy 6:4). The concept of the Trinity is inconsistent with Jewish theology. Islam emphasizes tawhid, the absolute oneness of Allah, and explicitly rejects the Trinity in the Qur'an (Surah 4:171), cautioning against associating partners with God. This theological difference emphasizes the unique ways these faiths perceive and engage with the divine, serving as a key topic for discussion and debate among various religious traditions.

Therein lies the question on your insistence on a verse of the Quran where my view and your view of God are different. It's your view and you have every right to keep it. Your concept of God is different from mine. That's all.

TenQ:
I get you, your almighty Allah is not articulate enough nor have the ability of speaking to his supposed creation in a simple clear language of his mind. Thus he needs you to write lengthy tafsirs so that his words can be understood.


Quran 29:46
Do not argue with the People of the Book except only by the best manner, except the unjust among them. Tell them, "We believe in what is revealed to us and to you. Our Lord and your Lord is one. We have submitted ourselves to His will".


Except you think you are better than Allah in communication, then have your way!


Have a nice day

Ohyoudidnt:
Simply because you disregard despite your superior expertise on the Quran in favour of other verses you inadequately understand.


Surah An-Nisa (4:171):

"O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, 'Three'; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs."

This verse clearly admonishes against the belief in the Trinity and reaffirms monotheism.

Surah Al-Ma'idah (5:73):

"They have certainly disbelieved who say, 'Allah is the third of three.' And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment."


Surah Maryam (19:88-92):

"And they say, 'The Most Merciful has taken [for Himself] a son.' You have done an atrocious thing. The heavens almost rupture therefrom and the earth splits open and the mountains collapse in devastation that they attribute to the Most Merciful a son. And it is not appropriate for the Most Merciful that He should take a son."

TenQ:
Are you saying that Allah contradicts himself in the Quran?
He just told mohammed to tell you Muslims that he is the same as the God of the Jews and Christians and thus you submit yourself to their God.

But you and I know that you do not submit to YHWH and neither is Allah the same identity as YHWH!

You need validation from us but we don't need any validation from you Muslims

1. Tell me which Christian sect say that Allah is the third of three?
For this is either a lie from Allah or a strawman argument according to Quran 5:73
2. Allah says that if he wanted a son, he would have taken it from "amongst us": please tell me who are these partners of Allah? Are they the Houris?