₦airaland Forum

GothamCities:
You need to point them out first, and let me know the miracles they've experienced in their lives as well as the instructions they have received that delivered them from coming danger. I'll like to know their assurance of salvation, their visions of heaven and their peace and joy that is not tied to their circumstances or situations.

Lucifyre:
😄

Captain4Jehovah:
Every man on earth should understand that we are ALL FLESH "born blood and water". In other words, a sparrow is not taller than the other except the one that climbs the ridge. This is an additional information to the comment of the OP about Christians, Christ and God. His claim is that if God and Christ exist, those set of people who call themselves Christians whose belief is in the positive impact of "I shall be the head not tail" according to God's word should be the lead. Of course, they are the head spiritually and not tail regardless their physical and materials status for they have an advanced knowledge about spiritual matters though atheists deny spirituality. The difference in two distinctive planes makes the whole issue debatable as to which one is justifiable morally restricted to spiritual-physical plane.
To answer the question, we need to begin from the examination of the physical plane itself. I believe atheists have consciousness in life bipolarity_the awareness of negativity and positivity which they themselves have not answered truthfully. The resolution is not in their dictionary about life. Life all entails LAUGHTER AND CRY, JOY AND SADNESS. Then why not all rosy from the cradle of life till death? Even those who are born with silver spoon experience the negative part of life. The consciousness of negativity is enough to tell human that life itself is ill. This present age is ill!
In a way, science has made us believe that the infectious diseases, lifestyle choices, sleep deprivation, immune system disorder, loneliness, stress and anxiety, genetics,etc make us sick physically and mentally. These are the fruits of spiritual illnesses evident physically. We ought not to experience these as humans_all, including atheists experience these which break the atheism smoothness or living life to its fullness theory.
Moreover, wickedness of a moral and social free agent is the bedrock of man's spiritual illness for the Bible says "All unrighteousness is a sin". It is not limited to committing a murder or any "major sins" alone, it also involves lies.
In another way,negative repetitive immoral disorder is another way of example of spiritual sickness. It's a spiritual insanity which must be removed from man. Our society and its activities make us understand so. For instance, when a moral agent breaks the laws of the land, he is charged, judged and locked up in a correctional facility until he regains his moral values again. This is exactly what happened to Nebuchadnezzar! His own insanity which is an illness is arrogance. A moral man with a common sense understands that such a life of arrogance as one of the examples of man's illnesses which is against the law of sanctity atheists reject is an illness for it is against the moral laws also.

jaephoenix:
1. You dont need to go far. I'm an example. I'm far much better than you. Also go to Japan, Netherlands, Iceland, China etc. Families much richer, smarter and healthier than you would ever dream of

2. I was paralyzed in my left lower limb and I have regained full motor control. No hospital. No church. No prayers. That is just the latest miracle.

3. What do you mean by 'assurance of salvation, visions of heaven' etc? Salvation from what? An imaginary hell? First u have to prove hell and heaven exists

jaephoenix:
1.So how is my Christian brother (who I give handouts every month), ahead of me spiritually?
2. What do you mean by 'awareness of negativity and positivity'?
3. Please how does diseases like malaria reflect from spirituality?
In all this gibberish, you did not provide one iota of the existence of the spiritual plane. Just rambling on about something you cannot prove

jaephoenix:

1. You dont need to go far. I'm an example. I'm far much better than you. Also go to Japan, Netherlands, Iceland, China etc. Families much richer, smarter and healthier than you would ever dream of

Providence of God makes you what you are. "Aparo kan o ga ju ekeji lo, afi eyi to ba gun ori ebe".

And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.
Zechariah 7 : 10

Wealth, riches and living luxurious life does not make one better than his fellow man. We are all the same before THE CREATOR. What matters to God is:

My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways.
Proverbs 23 : 26

2. I was paralyzed in my left lower limb and I have regained full motor control. No hospital. No church. No prayers. That is just the latest miracle

It was a miracle of life! Anyway, you got that from His ready made providence. In that way, it makes Him good to you.

3. What do you mean by 'assurance of salvation, visions of heaven' etc? Salvation from what? An imaginary hell? First u have to prove hell and heaven exists

[b]

Captain4Jehovah post=133062621:

The story of the Ethiopian eunuch with Philip the evangelist came to my mind as I read this. Philip asked the eunuch if he understood the portion of the Scripture(Isaiah 53) he was reading. He said how could I understand if know one explains to me.(Acts 8:27-40). The assurance of salvation is affirmed by the Holy Spirit. It is a solid affirmation of your ultimate deliverance from Satan's and sin's holds. You are sure you are have been saved because the Holy Spirit convinces you.
The visions of heaven are revelations flesh can't explain but those who have the divine spirit. Daniel 4


O Belteshazzar, master of the magicians, because I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in thee, and no secret troubleth thee, tell me the visions of my dream that I have seen, and the interpretation thereof.
Daniel 4 : 9

This dream I king Nebuchadnezzar have seen. Now thou, O Belteshazzar, declare the interpretation thereof, forasmuch as all the wise men of my kingdom are not able to make known unto me the interpretation: but thou art able; for the spirit of the holy gods is in thee.
Daniel 4 : 18

You dream and see yourself in a world unknown. That should tell you first that you are a spirit in a mortal body.(Gen 20:3). The fact you dream is enough to tell you that the heaven of the disobedient, called hell and heaven of the righteous called heaven exist. Even scientists have let us know that animals dream but haven't be able to explain how it happens. At least in your lifetime spent so far you have seen a dump site before. That's enough to tell you there is a particular place in the spirit where evil people are kept. Do you know what? No judgment now! This gives you the grace to turn to your Creator.


[22] For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

[23] But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1 Corinthians 1 : 22-24 [/b]

jaephoenix:
The guy na beta clown.
He claims his success is due to his god. When exposed that there are better folks, he started mumbling about visions and hallucinations

Fiscus105:
Atheist online, Sunday school teacher offline.

Anyway, everyone is doing something that would just make him/her happy.

Not easy to find joy during Tinubu reign Jor.

SIRTee15:
I think I read somewhere that U were an altar boy in catholic b4 becoming atheist.
I've always said it, those who leave Christianity do so because they don't understand the faith. No true Christian who understands the bible will ever leave.
These ex Christians simply make erroneous assumptions from the bible which unfortunately becomes their reality. Then they make ignorant decisions based on these falsehoods.

And to be sincere, I don't blame them. The church has taken too many things for granted in the last few decades without checking if the members are on the same page with the pulpit.
The bible says work out your salvation with fear and trembling, unfortunately today's church has failed to guarantee it's own salvation.
The members are seeing this and are beginning to question the faith.
I myself had my own challenge reconciling my belief with the message coming from the pulpit and at a time I began to drift away. That was until I began to study the bible myself and research the theology within it.
The revelation from the bible is clear- it's impossible for the bible to be false. It's impossible for the message coming from the bible to be made up.

If U actually take time to study and research the theology of Christianity, U can only come to one conclusion. The God of the Bible is the only true God.

I can take U on this journey so long as U have an open mind and willing to learn new things.
I remember I debated one of U agnostic here called Nonethnicity or something like that. By the time I disconnected his claims from reality, he couldn't continue because he was stuck.

MightySparrow:
👏

What then is the meaning of atheism?

FRANCISTOWN:
After i left Catholic. I had to worship with different denominations because I traveled alot, only white garment churches I didn't.

I was 9 when I got my first Bible and before I reached 25 I had already read the Bible from Matthew to revelation more than forty times and the old testament more than 9 times words for words.
Therefore, there is nothing you can tell me about the Bible that I prolly don't know.

However, in order not to sound arrogant. Please bring it on

MaxInDHouse:
Let's read what transpired between Jesus and one of his disciples on this topic:
Then Peter said in reply: “Look! We have left all things and followed you; what, then, will there be for us?” Matthew 19:27

In other words "if we dedicate our lives to doing what you taught us, is there anything we will have that others are missing?"

Jesus responded:
“Truly I say to you, no one has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for my sake and for the sake of the good news who will not get 100 times more now in this period of time—houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and fields, with persecutions—and in the coming system of things, everlasting life. Mark 10:29-30

So as one of those preaching and teaching people around me the Good News of God's Kingdom i'm going to loose friends, brothers, sisters, elderly ones who supposed to be like fathers and mothers to me and some job opportunities that doesn't go well with my faith. But then i will have 100 times friends, brothers, sisters, elderly ones who will be like fathers and mothers to me and job opportunities that will make me happier than all my mates.
Surely i will be persecuted for sticking to my faith but instead of relying on friends and families who are numbered but then they will be replaced with millions of friends and families in the faith who are waiting to welcome me home throughout the globe because i am a member of the same faith!
Nobody can enjoy such blessings if he is not one of Jesus' disciples that's why many are puzzled and after seeing the LOVE permeating the gathering of true believers knowing fully well that we don't know ourselves other than the faith that unite us {John 13:34-35} they conclude that we are cultists! Matthew 10:24-25



Jesus has helped me to know the real cause of hatred and killings going on in the world around me {John 8:44} so when unbelievers are fighting and killing their neighbors my brothers and i are going to visit them in their homes to reason with them that there is no sense in hating our neighbors who are not our race. Mark 12:31

SIRTee15:
1. The biggest question is what evidence do we have from the bible that proves the God of the bible is the supreme God.

2. So when U were a Christian what made u think this God I worship written about in the bible is the ONLY TRUE GOD.

FRANCISTOWN:
1. First of all, the evidence for the existence of Spiderman in real life cannot be found in the comics. If we wanted to believe Spiderman is real, we need a real life proof.
*****
___Second of all. That evidence you are talking about. Please state it and let's go thru it together.

2. Good. Number 1. Childhood indoctrination, Appeal To Authority, ad populum fallacy and delusional disorder , a priori fallacy wishful thinking , and appeal to fear fallacy.

It was that crazy

FRANCISTOWN:
1. First of all, the evidence for the existence of Spiderman in real life cannot be found in the comics. If we wanted to believe Spiderman is real, we need a real life proof.
*****
___Second of all. That evidence you are talking about. Please state it and let's go thru it together.

2. Good. Number 1. Childhood indoctrination, Appeal To Authority, ad populum fallacy and delusional disorder , a priori fallacy wishful thinking , and appeal to fear fallacy.

It was that crazy

FRANCISTOWN:
Honestly, I'm failing to understand your point.

Please list few things that you or any christian have that cannot be found in the lives of others.

FRANCISTOWN:
What do you think it is?

SIRTee15:
1. My friend that's not how history works. What evidence do U have that people like Aristotle, Socrates or Nefertiti ever existed.
How do U know Julius Caesar or Alexander the great ever existed and not just some made up figure.
My guy, the only evidence we have about them is what their own people wrote about them. We looked into historical records and analysed as well as filter thru what their people wrote about them. That's how we know what's real and what's made up.

Historical documents are pieces of evidence and historians treat them as such.

U don't travel to China to learn about Nerfetiti, instead u look for what ancient Egyptians wrote about her.

U also don't travel to Rome to learn about Orunmila. Instead U study the oral tradition and history of Yoruba people to understand if Orunmila is a real person or not.
Do U get it now.

2. That mean U never did any critical thinking of your own while U were a Christian? Is that what U saying?

FRANCISTOWN:
1. We can't compare Aristotle and Socrates to a said son of God. It doesn't add up.
The thing is. Aristotle and likes we're normal human being like us.
They were dead and no longer alive.

If you said Jesus was a normal human being and not a special son of God and not alive. It would have been better. We could say, fine. He went down in history like any other.

But saying he is a son of God and that he is one special thing is nothing but a joke.

2. My personal conviction was rooted in a disorder called delusion.

GothamCities:
Without knowing me, you can never say this. There are Christians in those countries you have mentioned. There are Christians in other countries that are far better than many of them too. But tell me which of them have not used a hospital for more than 35yrs of their lives. I mean they and their families.


This is a lie! Given the fact that you're a medical doctor as I can understand, you cannot have such an issue without giving yourself medical attention! You actually don't have to lie to make a point.



Yeah, you actually can only keep asking. These are still things I have that you can never have. You can never even know them.

Captain4Jehovah:
IF your Christian brother IS REALLY YOUR BROTHER knowing well we are of THE SAME BLOOD, you won't think evil about him. You won't think of him as a second class citizen of this present age for we are all the same before God. Having materials things of this world,riches and wealth does not make anyone bigger than the rest. Greatness neither lies in the selfsame. That's not my Father's measure of greatness! That's the reason we are called Christians.

Your body, life and environment tell you about both negativity and positivity.

The word "malaria" means "evil air". Why would the air given be evil? Whatever the case, the presence of SIN whose existence you deny makes man vulnerable to attacks from unseen microscopic but deadly animals. They attack man's cells and if the immune system is not strong, they die. Once they die, the victim dies. The Bible says:

And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Genesis 6 : 3

The effect of man's weakness generally takes place in the spirit before its reflection in the physical. Whether man's illness is caused naturally, the way he is born or by self, what happens to him in the spirit is revealed thus:

[6] The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:

[7] The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.

[8] The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
Isaiah 40 : 6-8

You are neither destined to fall sick nor die.(Gen. 6:3). We all understand sickness and death are evil. I understand atheists believe in life smoothness from cradle to adulthood but behold, the reverse is the case. That is not achievable! Man, regardless of status has in one way or the other felt the pangs of sickness, illness and death. The original intention of the BEING, CREATOR, YHWH you deny is what you hold esteem. It is the philosophy of your life!

GothamCities:
Who has ever said spiderman is real? On what basis are you looking for evidence?

Yeah, you were a member of the Catholic Church. There's no God in the Catholic church, so the fallacies you described about them is true. The failure of the Catholic Church to manifest God to you is not the failure of the global Church.

jaephoenix:
I was raised a pentecostal. Grace Tabernacle Owerri to be precise.
So are you saying Yahweh is not in pentecostals too?
So what can you say about me

jaephoenix:
You want me to believe you and your family haven’t used a hospital since birth, yet you don't believe there are atheists who have the same privileges, or even better?

You still haven't proven that heaven or hell exists, apart from what an old lying book told you.
Bro, I'm sorry to say this, you are a first class clown

jaephoenix:
1.Where did I tell you I think evil of my bros, or designate him as second class citizen? Do you have comprehension issues? I simply said I give him money, that's all, and here you are now changing the meaning of my words. You see how you twisted my words to suit your narratives?
2.You christians tell us you would be the head and not the tail, but now same you are telling us we are the same(after your lie has been exposed)
3. Malaria got its name from Italians which means bad air. Ancient folks thought the disease came from the bad air we inhale, they didn't know it came from plasmodia carried by parasites. All this can be ratified and evidenced by science.
Where does your evidence that sin makes one vulnerable to attacks
4.No atheist would tell you life is supposed to be smooth. Show me any atheists that says so on Nairaland

SIRTee15:
Ok let me explain how historical evidence work.
Now how do historians gather evidence from history ? They research ancient documents looking for evidence for or against historical claim.
Now this could either be internal or external evidence.

Internal evidence is what is in the documents that support or refute the claim.
External evidence is what is outside of the documents that support or refute the content in the document.

The bible is a historical document. If U are saying the bible is false. Then what in the bible led credence to your assertion and what have U discovered outside of the bible that debunks what's written in the bible.

U said U don't believe Jesus is the Son of God as stated in the bible.
What evidence do U have either internal or external evidence to back your claim that the statement is false.
Are U saying Jesus never called himself Son of God, or he did but was lying or he did but not as Christians meant it to be or the gospel writers just made it all up.

jaephoenix:
You saw your fellow christians brag that he's better than atheists cos he enjoys many perks of life and you kept quiet. I then corrected him that those perks are equally enjoyed by atheists, and you suddenly started convulsing that we are all the same, that we can't use wealth etc to divide ourselves. You are a total clown.
So you are saying your Yahweh healed me, an atheist that cusses him but somehow refused to heal millions of Christians with similar or worse ailments, that have been praying to him? You are worse than a total clown
You are still giving the same gibberish from a book that has been proven to lie and misinform people. Why should I believe it?

jaephoenix:
You saw your fellow christians brag that he's better than atheists cos he enjoys many perks of life and you kept quiet. I then corrected him that those perks are equally enjoyed by atheists, and you suddenly started convulsing that we are all the same, that we can't use wealth etc to divide ourselves. You are a total clown.
So you are saying your Yahweh healed me, an atheist that cusses him but somehow refused to heal millions of Christians with similar or worse ailments, that have been praying to him? You are worse than a total clown
You are still giving the same gibberish from a book that has been proven to lie and misinform people. Why should I believe it?

FRANCISTOWN:
Lol! Child's play. Na you go tell me how historical evidence works? 😂

This is not a kind of discussion I should waste my precious time on.
Lol! I expected you to do better. What evidence do I have that Jesus is not the son of God? Really? 😂 😂

SIRTee15:
So U just woke up one morning and concluded Jesus isn't the Son of God?

My question is clear. What evidence do U have both internal and external that made u conclude what is written in the bible is false.

It's not a difficult question to answer. If U are an intelligent and diligent atheist as U claim.