₦airaland Forum

illicit:
You don't seem to know the difference between your left and your right bro

Quoting britain and nigerian law for moses...

Are u kidding me

Did I not start clearly stating to to you that Moses was under God's Law called Natural Law and that under it, it is lawful to kill in defence of another person, and that nations today have declared it so, which is why I laid the Nigerian one?

Then, you mentioned Britain as if they too are not aware of Natural Law, hence why I showed you that they too recognise and adopted it?

You don't have any valid thing to say, you are just barking vainly

Michael547:
Oga there is nothing to revisit in all your submissions....you cannot still prove that being a soldier and killing people is not a sin in the eyes of God due to the fact that one being a soldier today cannot avoid oppressing innocent people and killing people who claim to be genuine worshippers of God.

This is fallacious and you have shifted from what I commented on.

In fact you have committed the well known motte and Bailey fallacy.

You are conflating two different things together.

Read all what I replied to then you will see your flaws!!!

Michael547:
Oga....can you point out a war where those who claim to be Christians in either countries have not slain each other?

Just a simple query dashes your positional stance.

There are so many instances of christians fighting against themselves!

Also the question should be rephrased, it should be like this: can you point out a war where christians have not slain each other?

This question is semantically wrong.
And your intention is not properly passed.

That's why I said you should revisit and correct this.

Gabrielshow24:
Just a simple query dashes your positional stance.

There are so many instances of christians fighting against themselves!

Also the question should be rephrased, it should be like this: can you point out a war where christians have not slain each other?

This question is semantically wrong.
And your intention is not properly passed.

That's why I said you should revisit and correct this.

Oga you are more concerned about English. Face my question and answer it. You are forming smart after the other guy on this thread have exposed your ideas that Christians do not fight each other by giving you historical instances.

Michael547:
Oga you are more concerned about English. Face my question and answer it. You are forming smart after the other guy on this thread have exposed your ideas that Christians do not fight each other by giving you historical instances.

Can't you read?
Didn't you read the part where I said ideally it shouldn't be so?

Or are you confused about the meaning of ideally?

From Jesus' words no christian should raise up arms but is that the reality now?

According to Christ are we not all one body?
Is that the reality now?

What aspects of reality don't you understand?
From early church history we have historical facts of wars fought between christian factions!!!

Gabrielshow24:
Can't you read?
Didn't you read the part where I said ideally it shouldn't be so?

Or are you confused about the meaning of ideally?

From Jesus' words no christian should raise up arms but is that the reality now?

According to Christ are we not all one body?
Is that the reality now?

What aspects of reality don't you understand?
From early church history we have historical facts of wars fought between christian factions!!!

So what is the reality now? What realities will make Christians engage in wars today that did not exist in Jesus' day?

Michael547:
So what is the reality now? What realities will make Christians engage in wars today that did not exist in Jesus' day?

🤦 The same realities that caused the early christian wars.

Gabrielshow24:
🤦 The same realities that caused the early christian wars.

Oga name the realities.

Michael547:
Oga name the realities.

It's totally irrelevant to the premise!

Also you have Google, query and educate yourself!

Gabrielshow24:
It's totally irrelevant to the premise!

Also you have Google, query and educate yourself!

Baba you have no point. So you can't even name one reality that caused war for early Christians but did not cause war for Jesus' true disciples?

Michael547:
Baba you have no point. So you can't even name one reality that caused war for early Christians but did not cause war for Jesus' true disciples?

Is this logically sound?

Have you not read church history?
From the pseudo conflicts between Rome and england, to the rise of protestantism.

I won't do your work for you.
I want you to search and read it up yourself.

Gabrielshow24:
Is this logically sound?

Have you not read church history?
From the pseudo conflicts between Rome and england, to the rise of protestantism.

I won't do your work for you.
I want you to search and read it up yourself.

Baba the bone of contention is that non of those wars were approved by God no matter what the realities on ground were which you've refused to point out.

You are just jumping up and down since.

Michael547:
Baba the bone of contention is that non of those wars were approved by God no matter what the realities on ground were which you've refused to point out.

You are just jumping up and down since.

They don't know Christians supposed to be the children of the same God {John 1:12} so their wickedness has blinded them completely {2Corinthians 4:4} ask him how he will feel if his own children who are supposed to work together for his praise are fighting and killing one another!

Michael547:
Baba the bone of contention is that non of those wars were approved by God no matter what the realities on ground were which you've refused to point out.

You are just jumping up and down since.

Contrary to your conclusion.
My write up pointed that out from the very beginning. 🤦

And Is there any word or phrase in my previous write-ups that hinted on me saying God approved christian wars?

Can you see what I talked about earlier?
The conflating dilemma!

Michael547:
Baba the bone of contention is that non of those wars were approved by God no matter what the realities on ground were which you've refused to point out.

You are just jumping up and down since.

If you had read my exegesis you would have seen I made emphasis on "True" - Truth
being humanly subjective and both parties will always see themselves as being in the right.

And the absolute Truth determined by God might not be always known!

If the bible didn't state categorically that the Lord sanctioned the "Israelites wars"; using human devices all will blame Israel!!!

Or is there a prophet in Israel that told them the will of God as regards the Palestinian war?

Do you for a fact know if it is sanctioned by God or not?

Without evidence there's no way to ascertain if these wars were permitted.

Moving to christians, I assert Jesus told us not to take up arms!!!

Hence no ideal christian should take up arms!
but reality is not always ideal.

Gabrielshow24:
And Is there any word or phrase in my previous write-ups that hinted on me saying God approved christian wars?

So going by what Jesus taught his disciples can a Christian be in the military?
If Yes for what purpose?
Whose orders will such ones take when going to war?
Will they take orders from Jesus who said:
"Keep away your weapons because those taking up weapons will perish by weapons" Matthew 26:52
Or from Politicians dragging territories?

Gabrielshow24:
Truth being humanly subjective and both parties will always see themselves as being in the right.

So between this two which one should believers use to SET MATTERS STRAIGHT? 2Timothy 3:16-17

God's word: Bible
Or
Guns: Weapons of destruction?

MaxInDHouse:
So going by what Jesus taught his disciples can a Christian be in the military?
If Yes for what purpose?
Whose orders will such ones take when going to war?
Will they take orders from Jesus who said:
"Keep away your weapons because those taking up weapons will perish by weapons" Matthew 26:52
Or from Politicians dragging territories?

What aspects of ideality don't you understand?

You're committing fallacy of accidents and not taking into accounts lots of physical factors and circumstances!!!

Gabrielshow24:
What aspects of ideality don't you understand?
You're committing fallacy of accidents and not taking into accounts lots of physical factors and circumstances!!!

Physical factors?
Circumstances?
What has these got to do with complete obedience to the son of God?

You are shying away from the TRUTH.

No wahala!

MaxInDHouse:
Physical factors?
Circumstances?
What has these got to do with complete obedience to the son of God?

You are shying away from the TRUTH.

No wahala!

🤦You act as if everything is ideal.

The protestants that laid down their lives in battle what about them?

"complete" is absolute!

Have you completely obeyed the son of God?

Gabrielshow24:
🤦You act as if everything is ideal.
The protestants that laid down their lives in battle what about them?

Laid down their lives.
How?
By obedience to what Jesus said @ Matthew 10:16 or picking up weapons in support of another leader who asked them to go killing and get killed?

Gabrielshow24:
"complete" is absolute!
Have you completely obeyed the son of God?

YES!

MaxInDHouse:
Laid down their lives.
How?
By obedience to what Jesus said @ Matthew 10:16 or picking up weapons in support of another leader who asked them to go killing and get killed?


YES!

😅 you have no idea the spot you have put yourself, from your Jehovah witnesses' doctrine there are lots of Jesus' words and beliefs you do not obey.

I am not that little to attack your character.
But any technically sane person knows you are hooked.

Back to the subject matter.
It's not about the leader, it's the idealogy.
Although the war was ingrained in both politics and religion.

You also seem not to understand that some of the doctrinal freedoms you enjoy were the consequences of this war.

As I have said.
Reality is not always ideal!!!

That above is self explanatory!!!

And if you want to live by the ideal then fine!

But just know that with your hands have you set your standard and you must live by it.

If circumstances arise that requires self defense gladly lay down your life!

Or if perhaps your country goes to war and you are forcefully conscripted then rebel against your nation by refusing to take up arms!

Whatsoever you do then you MUST live by it.

Gabrielshow24:
😅 you have no idea the spot you have put yourself, from your Jehovah witnesses' doctrine there are lots of Jesus' words and beliefs you do not obey. I am not that little to attack your character.
But any technically sane person knows you are hooked.
Back to the subject matter.
It's not about the leader, it's the idealogy.
Although the war was ingrained in both politics and religion.

Instead of shying away from truth why not mention one as in just one command of Jesus that Jehovah's Witnesses don't obey?

Gabrielshow24:
Also your false equivocation of my standpoint with that of the pharisees is it factual?

Gabrielshow24:
doctrinal freedoms you enjoy were the consequences of war.

Gabrielshow24:
if perhaps your country goes to war and you are forcefully conscripted then rebel against your nation by refusing to take up arms! Whatsoever you do then you MUST live by it.

I got you perfectly you don't believe in Jesus' orders!

MaxInDHouse:
PROPAGANDA to make you DISOBEY CHRIST!

🤦

Pharisees in the first century also think like you are doing today, this is what they said about Jesus and those believing him:

Therefore, many of the Jews who had come to Mary and who saw what he did put faith in him, but some of them went off to the Pharisees and told them what Jesus had done. So the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered the Sanʹhe·drin together and said: “What are we to do, for this man performs many signs?  If we let him go on this way, they will all put faith in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation”. John 11:45-48

The highlighted in blue is what they thought as Jesus was teaching people to LOVE and PRAY for their enemies {Luke 6:27-28} so they concluded that if all Jews should become disciples of Jesus there will be no SOLDIERS to defend their nation when Roman armies attacks.

So faith is not what you think is working like humans do calculate rather it's relying on what God said even when it doesn't seem logical from human point of view! Hebrews 11:1, 6

We need to MEDITATE THOROUGHLY on the orders Jesus gave us so that we can be fully convinced that it's LOGICAL and the best thing to do instead of shying away from the truth.

So if anyone wants to know the sense behind Jesus' orders not to pick up weapons for defense of nations i can help you!

MaxInDHouse:
Pharisees in the first century also think like you are doing today, this is what they said about Jesus and those believing him:

Therefore, many of the Jews who had come to Mary and who saw what he did put faith in him, but some of them went off to the Pharisees and told them what Jesus had done. So the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered the Sanʹhe·drin together and said: “What are we to do, for this man performs many signs?  If we let him go on this way, they will all put faith in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation”. John 11:45-48

The highlighted in blue is what they thought as Jesus was teaching people to LOVE and PRAY for their enemies {Luke 6:27-28} so they concluded that if all Jews should become disciples of Jesus there will be no SOLDIERS to defend their nation when Roman armies attacks.

So faith is not what you think is working like humans do calculate rather it's relying on what God said even when it doesn't seem logical from human point of view! Hebrews 11:1, 6

Are you dumb?
The highlighted in blue is what they thought as Jesus was teaching people to LOVE and PRAY for their enemies {Luke 6:27-28} so they concluded that if all Jews should become disciples of Jesus there will be no SOLDIERS to defend their nation when Roman armies attacks


Is the above a reasonable deductive conclusion from the premise? 🤕

Also your false equivocation of my standpoint with that of the pharisees is it factual?

🤨
Do you see your thinking flaw?

Gabrielshow24:
Also your false equivocation of my standpoint with that of the pharisees is it factual?

Gabrielshow24:
doctrinal freedoms you enjoy were the consequences of war.

Gabrielshow24:
if perhaps your country goes to war and you are forcefully conscripted then rebel against your nation by refusing to take up arms! Whatsoever you do then you MUST live by it.

I got you perfectly you don't believe in Jesus' orders!

MaxInDHouse:
I got you perfectly you don't believe in Jesus' orders!

Is this a reasonable conclusion from my exegesis above?

👀
straw man fallacy won't help you.

Your logical errors are clearly visible.