₦airaland Forum

Dtruthspeaker:
There isn't any reasonable counter you can give.

And secondly, do we not all know that God had to bless Ishmael because He must keep His Word to Abraham?

And besides the fact that the wicked prosper is proof that blessing the sinner is not a problem to/ for God. So did He bless Esau and Canaan and Egypt but that did not make them acceptable to Him and stop their final destruction.

Counter?

Sometimes you just let some delusions and delusional thinking be. Do you know why? Because they are Blind, Deaf and Dumb.

Keep the Faith.

Lukuluku69:
Counter?

Sometimes you just let some delusions and delusional thinking be. Do you know why? Because they are Blind, Deaf and Dumb.

Keep the Faith.

That is not true. You have been countering since but you have nothing reasonable to counter so you are just trying to leave with your dignity. Which is very much ok.

If you truly have a counter and your counter is valid and holds firm, drop it. In return, I will declare you are right.

Truth springs from argument amongst friends and enemies Anonymous

Dtruthspeaker:
That is not true. You have been countering since but you have nothing reasonable to counter so you are just trying to leave with your dignity. Which is very much ok.

If you truly have a counter and your counter is valid and holds firm, drop it. In return, I will declare you are right.

Truth springs from argument amongst friends and enemies Anonymous

You don't argue with someone whose mind is already made up.

I quoted a verse from the Bible that says Hagar was WIFE to Abraham and you called their offspring an illegitimate while I point you to a similar situation with Rachel and Leah but you accept that as legitimate.


Your mind is made up regardless of whatever I post. So, why should I continue?

Lukuluku69:
You don't argue with someone whose mind is already made up.

I quoted a verse from the Bible that says Hagar was WIFE to Abraham and you called their offspring an illegitimate while I point you to a similar situation with Rachel and Leah but you accept that as legitimate.

Your mind is made up regardless of whatever I post. So, why should I continue?

I took out time to point out the clear differences between the 2 cases in the Law for, sin (crime/offence) legitimacy and illegitimacy are all matters of Law, which I have already presented.

And what you quoted about Haggai was

Lukuluku69:

nd Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

And not that she was his wife under God and Law

And no where do you see Abraham go to her family or whatever to pay bride price and perform a valid lawfull marriage to her.

So all this is clearly, Sarah's wish and Sarah's wish is not Law!

Dtruthspeaker:
I took out time to point out the clear differences between the 2 cases in the Law for, sin (crime/offence) legitimacy and illegitimacy are all matters of Law, which I have already presented.

And what you quoted about Haggai was

Lukuluku69:

nd Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

And not that she was his wife under God and Law

And no where do you see Abraham go to her family or whatever to pay bride price and perform a valid lawfull marriage to her.

So all this is clearly, Sarah's wish and Sarah's wish is not Law!

Your mind is closed on Ishmael and her mother. Your Bible states clearly " to be his wife" but you refused to see that rather reading your own meaning to it. Jehovah that made Sarah barren for Decades readily blessed Hagar and an Angel of God gave the name the child would be called ISHMAEL meaning God Heard. Meaning God Heard Abraham's prayers for an Heir. Yet you are insinuating that he is an illegitimate.


Jacob already had two wives yet the wives added their handmaiden and altogether they had 13/14 Children with Jehovah making a Tribe from the Male children's Line. Because you have been programmed to hate on Ishmael, you see nothing wrong with the second scenario. There was no adultery, no illegitimate child because they are the progenitor of your man-god. It is according to your God's plan.

Show me where Abraham paid bride price or dowry for Sarah too while at it!

Can you see your blindness?

Lukuluku69:
Your mind is closed on Ishmael and her mother. Your Bible states clearly " to be his wife" but you refused to see that rather
reading your own meaning to it.

"To be his wife" Is not the same as "is his wife". Seyi Tinubu's mother can give him to Sanwaolu "to be the governor" of Lagos State, but does that make him governor of Lagos State? No.
Please, find something reasonable and valid to say.

Lukuluku69:
Jehovah that made Sarah barren for Decades readily blessed Hagar and an Angel of God gave the name the child would be called ISHMAEL meaning God Heard. Meaning God Heard Abraham's prayers for an Heir. Yet you are insinuating that he is an illegitimate.
Jacob already had two wives yet the wives added their handmaiden and altogether they had 13/14 Children with Jehovah making a Tribe from the Male children's Line. Because you have been programmed to hate on Ishmael, you see nothing wrong with the second scenario. There was no adultery, no illegitimate child because they are the progenitor of your man-god. It is according to your God's plan.

You have said all these before and I have countered them, so these are invalid and off point and repetitive arguments. So you have nothing here

Lukuluku69:
Show me where Abraham paid bride price or dowry for Sarah too while at it!

Can you see your blindness?

The Bible clearly declared her not even once or twice as Abram"s wife.

Abraham clearly and publicly confirms and represented that indeed Sarah is his wife, even twice.

No where do you see Abraham say Haggai was his wife nor did she even live with him as a wife does nor was she buried by his side.

She was rather casted out like a house girl that she even is!

And you see all these, so you are the one being blind refusing to see what is right in front of you and what is beating you even on your body

ThatWriterBoy:
Hello everyone! Happy New Year!

One of my goals for 2025 is to read through the Bible. Right now, I'm in Genesis 16 and I'm wondering why God picked Abraham to become the most important father in the world (seeing that he became the father of both Christians, Jews and Muslims).

Is it that there was something inherently different about him like Noah who was the ONLY blameless man in the whole world before the flood?

Because Abraham was from Ur of the Chaldeans. And I don't think they were worshipping Yahweh over there. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as if God just picked a random sinner man and made him all those promises and then he became father of the monotheistic religions.

Weren't there other people God could have picked?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Job predates Abraham right? Why didn't God pick Job then? He was a righteous man that He (God) even bragged to Satan about his righteousness.

What do you think?

Happy New Year.
Good attempt to start the year. I pray God will help you through. When you get to Leviticus, Ezekiel, Romans, Hebrews, Revelation, you could be a little discouraged, have this in mind. If you can't comprehend, make up your mind to finish it.

To your question, since the Fall of man and the attendant judgement, God has been choosing people by grace, unmerited favour. You will see the word grace all over Genesis even not mentioned, you will see it later. God chose Abraham by grace and his character also. He met conditions God was looking for.


Gen.18.19 - For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Abraham became frustrated, made a blunder and gave birth to Ishmael. Then rivalry started in the family, hence Islam by Ishmael. In Galatians you will understand better. The Jews also rejected God as their ruler, hence Christianity. All the stories from Genesis to Revelations dovetail. Read with open mind, it is a very good adventure.


Job is a great grandchild of Abraham. He was a son of Issachar, a generation before Moses.

Gen.46.13 - And the sons of Issachar; Tola, and Phuvah, and Job, and Shimron.




Shalom.

Dtruthspeaker:
"To be his wife" Is not the same as "is his wife". Seyi Tinubu's mother can give him to Sanwaolu "to be the governor" of Lagos State, but does that make him governor of Lagos State? No.
Please, find something reasonable and valid to say.



You have said all these before and I have countered them, so these are invalid and off point and repetitive arguments. So you have nothing here



The Bible clearly declared her not even once or twice as Abram"s wife.

Abraham clearly and publicly confirms and represented that indeed Sarah is his wife, even twice.

No where do you see Abraham say Haggai was his wife nor did she even live with him as a wife does nor was she buried by his side.

She was rather casted out like a house girl that she even is!

And you see all these, so you are the one being blind refusing to see what is right in front of you and what is beating you even on your body

Padre, Ishmael was casted out because his mother was an house girl but Jehovah made some Tribes out of Rachel and Leah house girls? Abi?

Lol

I don't really blame you since you can't see thru the fact that the Jewish scribes played you but I blame you because you remain blind and deaf to sound reasoning.

The Governor analogy is asinine to say the least. Can a One day Governor make political or economic decisions binding on the state?

Hagar had a child for Abraham and Yahweh clearly called him Abraham's son!

How blind can you guys be!

MightySparrow:
Happy New Year.
Good attempt to start the year. I pray God will help you through. When you get to Leviticus, Ezekiel, Romans, Hebrews, Revelation, you could be a little discouraged, have this in mind. If you can't comprehend, make up your mind to finish it.

To your question, since the Fall of man and the attendant judgement, God has been choosing people by grace, unmerited favour. You will see the word grace all over Genesis even not mentioned, you will see it later. God chose Abraham by grace and his character also. He met conditions God was looking for.


Gen.18.19 - For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Abraham became frustrated, made a blunder and gave birth to Ishmael. Then rivalry started in the family, hence Islam by Ishmael. In Galatians you will understand better. The Jews also rejected God as their ruler, hence Christianity. All the stories from Genesis to Revelations dovetail. Read with open mind, it is a very good adventure.


Job is a great grandchild of Abraham. He was a son of Issachar, a generation before Moses.

Gen.46.13 - And the sons of Issachar; Tola, and Phuvah, and Job, and Shimron.




Shalom.

Who are Abraham's children?

He had 8 sons.

One from Hagar, one from Sarah and 6 from Kethurah.

Does Gen. 18:19 applies to Isaac descendants Alone? The Jews/Christians will say Yes! But is that what the Bible says?

Job, Jethro, Jonah, Balam are all descendants of Abraham thru his other offsprings but our Christian friends will disagree despite reading that the Word of God came to these people too.

Shalom!

Lukuluku69:
Who are Abraham's children?

He had 8 sons.

One from Hagar, one from Sarah and 6 from Kethurah.

Does Gen. 18:19 applies to Isaac descendants Alone? The Jews/Christians will say Yes! But is that what the Bible says?

Job, Jethro, Jonah, Balam are all descendants of Abraham thru his other offsprings but our Christian friends will disagree despite reading that the Word of God came to rhis people.

Shalom!

The difference between all the children are promise and covenant. While God dealt with others as Abraham's children, the relationship between God and Abraham via covenant was given to Isaac and his children untimately, Jesus.

The covenant is the reason all that Israel has been passing through. The covenant is the reason for Christianity. For Islam .....?

MightySparrow:
The difference between all the children are promise and covenant. While God dealt with others as Abraham's children, the relationship between God and Abraham via covenant was given to Isaac and his children untimately, Jesus.

The covenant is the reason all that Israel has been passing through. The covenant is the reason for Christianity. For Islam .....?

Funny enough a certain Paul wrote that there are Two Convenant/Two Jerusalem. One for Isaac and One for Ishmael.

We have seen Isaac Convenant in Judeo-Christian Ways, Sir where can I find Ishmael's?

Buhari4dullard:
Abraham faith led to Judaism & Christianity

That's why both Jews & Christians recognise God as the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob.

Exo 3:6 KJV Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

No where in the Koran is the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob mentioned, showing that Allah is not God

Are you sure about your saying or you just grinding your teeth here

Lukuluku69:
Funny enough a certain Paul wrote that there are Two Convenant/Two Jerusalem. One for Isaac and One for Ishmael.

We have seen Isaac Convenant in Judeo-Christian Ways, Sir where can I find Ishmael's?

Gen 16:16

Covenant of divine hooliganism.
Jagidijagan.

MightySparrow:
Gen 16:16

Covenant of divine hooliganism.
Jagidijagan.

Lol

And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.
-- Genesis 16:16
KJV Holy Bible

Would you care to show me the hooliganism in that verse?

Lukuluku69:
Lol

And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.
-- Genesis 16:16
KJV Holy Bible

Would you care to show me the hooliganism in that verse?

And Ismael was a slave's son

Lukuluku69:
✓ Funny enough a certain Paul wrote that there are Two Convenant/Two Jerusalem. One for Isaac and One for Ishmael.
✓ We have seen Isaac Convenant in Judeo-Christian Ways, Sir where can I find Ishmael's?

Paul never said any of what you claim. Also, the only two Covenants that the God of Israel made with the people of Israel are

✓ The covenant that is the Nation of Israel which was given to them by Moses
✓ The covenant of Salt promised through David and His bloodline to all of Israel which is Jesus Christ

The selection of Isaac by YHWH was a promise made to Abraham, not a Covenant made to Israel.

Kobojunkie:
Paul never any of what you claim. The only two Covenants that the God of Israel made with the people of Israel are

✓ the Covenant that is the Nation of Israel which was given them by Moses
✓ the Covenant of Salt promised through David and His bloodline to all of Israel is Jesus Christ

The selection of Isaac by YHWH was a promise made to Abraham, not a Covenant made of Israel.

Lol.

Lukuluku69:
Lol

And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.
-- Genesis 16:16
KJV Holy Bible

Would you care to show me the hooliganism in that verse?

It is there.
Sorry, I misquoted.

Gen.16.12 - And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren

.

Lukuluku69:
Padre, Ishmael was casted out because his mother was an house girl but Jehovah made some Tribes out of Rachel and Leah house girls? Abi?

Lol

I don't really blame you since you can't see thru the fact that the Jewish scribes played you but I blame you because you remain blind and deaf to sound reasoning.

Repeating yourself is proof you do not have any counter to give

Lukuluku69:
The Governor analogy is asinine to say the least. Can a One day Governor make political or economic decisions binding on the state?

Aside this "one day" off point and irrelevant counter, is Sanwaolu governor for one day? No.

Please, you really do not have any valid counter to give.

Lukuluku69:
Hagar had a child for Abraham and Yahweh clearly called him Abraham's son!

How blind can you guys be!

Stop changing the argument, no one said Hagar did not have a child from Abraham but the issue is the mother and child were unlawful so and God rejected them

So, again you you are the one being blind and refusing to see what is right in front of you which you are not able to reasonably refute, hence your attempt at changing the argument and repetition.

So you really have nothing to say because, "There is no valid argument against the Truth"!

MightySparrow:
It is there.
Sorry, I misquoted.

Gen.16.12 - And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren

.

Good.

Some Translation used "Wild Ass" to describe Ishmael and ishmaelites which of course is a figurative description.

A wild Ass in Semitic usage simply means unconcurrable, without owners, untainted, on its own etc.

All the above simply describe the Ishmaelites in antiquity. Of all Semites ( Hebrews, Arameans and Arabs) the Ishmaelites Tribes were the only ones with no outside influence. For centuries they remained in their Desert . Their Lands have always been in their possession unlike their other cousins.

So, they remained Wild Ass largely unlike the Israelites who have been influenced in many ways thru exile and many influence from Rome, Greece etc.

Dtruthspeaker:
Repeating yourself is proof you do not have any counter to give



Aside this "one day" off point and irrelevant counter, is Sanwaolu governor for one day? No.

Please, you really do not have any valid counter to give.



Stop changing the argument, no one said Hagar did not have a child from Abraham but the issue is the mother and child were unlawful so and God rejected them

So, again you you are the one being blind and refusing to see what is right in front of you which you are not able to reasonably refute, hence your attempt at changing the argument and repetition.

So you really have nothing to say because, "There is no valid argument against the Truth"!

Mother and Child unlawful?

Lol

Don't you think Jehovah is an Idiote for blessing an unlawful Union while the Legit remained unblessed?

Jehovah even Said He will multiply him.

Lol

Lukuluku69:
Mother and Child unlawful?

Lol

Don't you think Jehovah is an Idiote for blessing an unlawful Union while the Legit remained unblessed?

Jehovah even Said He will multiply him.

Lol

Now you are resorting to blasphemy because you see you still do not have any reasonable counter to give.

I have already pointed out that God blessed even the wicked, so blessing is nothing to God. So, stop repeating yourself, you still have nothing.

Dtruthspeaker:
Now you are resorting to blasphemy because you see you still do not have any reasonable counter to give.

I have already pointed out that God blessed even the wicked, so blessing is nothing to God. So, stop repeating yourself, you still have nothing.

Blasphemy?

Please show me!

Nigerians have no business with Abraham or his god.

Lukuluku69:
Good.

Some Translation used "Wild Ass" to describe Ishmael and ishmaelites which of course is a figurative description.

A wild Ass in Semitic usage simply means unconcurrable, without owners, untainted, on its own etc.

All the above simply describe the Ishmaelites in antiquity. Of all Semites ( Hebrews, Arameans and Arabs) the Ishmaelites Tribes were the only ones with no outside influence. For centuries they remained in their Desert . Their Lands have always been in their possession unlike their other cousins.

So, they remained Wild Ass largely unlike the Israelites who have been influenced in many ways thru exile and many influence from Rome, Greece etc.

What about his hands being against everybody's and vice -versa? A fulfilment of prophecy?

MightySparrow:
What about his hands being against everybody's and vice -versa? A fulfilment of prophecy?

Scribes addition.