₦airaland Forum

When I first read the Book of Job, I rushed to dad and asked why God would be playing bet9ja with satan. It was pools in those days, and it wasn't unusual so see grown men with no teeth crying into a cup of ògógóró as they contemplated their wife throwing them out for loosing a month's wage on a bet on payday, so going to a bookie with satan was just so lowly of an Almighty God, I thought pre-10.

Dad's answer was, perhaps go ask God? So I did by reading Job again and again, and for years, asking all the questions I could think of. God never answered of course, least not how I'd hoped. Probably had planets and stars and cosmoses to be more concerned about than to be answering buda, but in my questioning I got Job woven into my dna somehow to lens my world outlook which is turning out to be a huge answer indeed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQwnH8th_fs?si=ULnaerwuOwQ7acp1

P.s. For the don't knows. buda is atheist.

budaatum:
When I first read the Book of Job, I rushed to dad and asked why God would be playing bet9ja with satan. It was pools in those days
P.s. For the don't knows. buda is atheist.

That is why you are now lying devil.

Ah today devils have made so much noise. It definitely means God is coming closer and He made a big move today.

So soon the devils we see we shall see them burn forever more

Dtruthspeaker:
Ah today devils have made so much noise. It definitely means God is coming closer and He made a big move today.

So soon the devils we see we shall see them burn forever more

Oh yeah!

budaatum:
When I first read the Book of Job, I rushed to dad and asked why God would be playing bet9ja with satan. It was pools in those days, and it wasn't unusual so see grown men with no teeth crying into a cup of ògógóró as they contemplated their wife throwing them out for loosing a month's wage on a bet on payday, so going to a bookie with satan was just so lowly of an Almighty God, I thought pre-10.

Nothing wrong with God having a calculated risk with always a loser Satan

budaatum:
Dad's answer was, perhaps go ask God?

Wise counsel given by your dad because God has all answers

budaatum:
So I did by reading Job again and again, and for years, asking all the questions I could think of ...

Intellectual, and/or even head knowledge reading are not enough to grasp all thats in the book of Job

budaatum:
God never answered of course, least not how I'd hoped. Probably had planets and stars and cosmoses to be more concerned about than to be answering buda[

When the student is ready, the teacher (e.g. God) appears with answers.

budaatum:
but in my questioning I got Job woven into my dna somehow to lens my world outlook which is turning out to be a huge answer indeed.

h ttps://youtu.be/xQwnH8th_fs?si=ULnaerwuOwQ7acp1

P.s. For the don't knows. buda is atheist.

At the end of it all Job's overall strength was put to test and his Achille's heel (i.e. his fear) got sorted out. God most gladly boasted all the more about Job's weakness(es), so for the grace & power of God to work through him.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
Nothing wrong with God having a calculated risk with always a loser Satan

Really? At the expense of Job? I'm certain it's me, I just prefer my Gods not to be making me suffer just because it wants to prove a point. Life is hard enough as it is I think, for my life to be kalokaloed by some god with nothing better to be doing. If a thread were to be created about a parent testing their child like that, most will call social services on that parent's ass.

NNTR:
Wise counsel given by your dad because God has all answers

Wise indeed. We did agree it was a made up story that didn't actually happen, like a lot of made up stories in the Bible.

NNTR:
Intellectual, and/or even head knowledge reading are not enough to grasp all thats in the book of Job

This is so school na scammick. I'm not buying. People say that you say here and then regurgitate what they grasped intellectually with their own head, if they bothered, or they come up with some unreasoning they been told to believe, or worse, they claim their own understanding is not from their head by straight from God. To wit, pull the other one. Mohammed pulled that last one and Christians would never accept it so I wonder why they think it would work on non-Christians.

NNTR:
At the end of it all Job's overall strength was put to test ...

Why was Job's overall strength put to test? Did God not know Job's strength already it had to test Job?

budaatum:
Really? At the expense of Job? I'm certain it's me, I just prefer my Gods not to be making me suffer just because it wants to prove a point. Life is hard enough as it is I think, for my life to be kalokaloed by some god with nothing better to be doing.

God is the Point. Doesn't need to prove any point. Would interest you you to know that, Job came out of it all, a better version of himself and even a recompensed man

budaatum:
If a thread were to be created about a parent testing their child like that, most will call social services on that parent's ass.

Parents arent God. Parents dont have all the answers as God has. Parents arent in the same league as God. Parents arent in any position to test their child(ren) like that because they'll be gravely betrayed by their human frailties

budaatum:
Wise indeed. We did agree it was a made up story that didn't actually happen, like a lot of made up stories in the Bible.

Hear, hear.
God is abstract, so goes that, made up stories and all, they all are God-breathed (i.e. meaning, ruach given by spiritual divine inspiration)

They are useful for instruction, for conviction (i.e. of wrongdoing], for correction (i.e. of errors, delusions, misinterpretation, misreading, and restoration to obedience), for training in righteousness (i.e. learning to live in conformity to God’s will, both publicly and privately & behaving honourably with personal integrity and moral courage)

budaatum:
This is so school na scammick. I'm not buying. People say that you say here and then regurgitate what they grasped intellectually with their own head, if they bothered, or they come up with some unreasoning they been told to believe, or worse, they claim their own understanding is not from their head by straight from God. To wit, pull the other one.

God is not the author of confusion nor of contradictions, unlike your Mohammed that you mentioned immediately below

budaatum:
Mohammed pulled that last one and Christians would never accept it so I wonder why they think it would work on non-Christians.

Mohammed and Christians though off-topic, are chalk and cheese

budaatum:
Why was Job's overall strength put to test? Did God not know Job's strength already it had to test Job?

An opportunity to have his Achilles' heel (i.e. his fear) get sorted out

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
God is not the author of confusion nor of contradictions, un like your Mohammed that you mentioned immediately below

I was not comparing Mohammed to God, but to those who claim their knowledge was not learnt and was instead brought to them by divine means.

And I wouldn't agree that God (or more accurately the writers of the God stories), did not contradict in this story (and many others in fact). Job was obviously confused.

NNTR:
An opportunity to have his Achilles' heel (i.e. his fear) get sorted out

Job was not described to have had an achilles heel as far as I know. He was in fact described as "perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil", so what heel was God testing when the narrative actually describes God being tested by satan?

budaatum:
I was not comparing Mohammed to God

Never said you were comparing Mohammed to God

budaatum:
but to those who claim their knowledge was not learnt and was instead brought to them by divine means

I reiterate, God is not the author of confusion nor of contradictions, unlike your Mohammed that you keep bringing into mention, who claim that he had an visit fro angel Gabriel, who told him that he was God's chosen messenger and recited the first revelations of the Quran but Mohammed's message contradicts the Bible in a multitude of passages, hence the 'God is not the author of confusion nor of contradictions, unlike your Mohammed that you mentioned immediately below' comment

budaatum:
And I wouldn't agree that God (or more accurately the writers of the God stories), did not contradict in this story (and many others in fact).

There are no contradictions to a well trained eyes and ardent stickler of 2 Timothy 2:15

budaatum:
Job was obviously confused.

Despite any confusion, he didnt curse God, didnt badmouth God, didnt disparage God ...

budaatum:
Job was not described to have had an achilles heel as far as I know.

Well, always a first time, to know. We learn new things everyday. In fact, education is, until 6 foot under.

budaatum:
He was in fact described as "perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil", so what heel was God testing when the narrative actually describes God being tested by satan?

Ordinarily, one has lessons, then test, next, but here, test comes first, then lessons to learn, next. Reiterating, a welcomed opportunity, to purge him of his unwise fear Achilles' heel

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
There are no contradictions to a well trained eyes and ardent stickler of 2 Timothy 2:15

I'd say, a blinded eye, but I know we'd disagree so I'd leave it at that

Enish?

budaatum:
I'd say, a blinded eye, but I know we'd disagree so I'd leave it at that

2 timothy 2:15
Study and do your best to present yourself to God approved,
a workman [tested by trial] who has no reason to be ashamed,
accurately handling and skillfully teaching the word of truth.

Isaiah 28:9-10
9Whom shall he teach knowledge?
and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?
them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Isaiah 29:13
Wherefore the Lord said,
Forasmuch as this people draw near Me with their mouth,
and with their lips do honour me,
but have removed their heart far from Me,
and their fear toward Me is taught by the precept of men:

OR

Isaiah 29:1
Then the Lord said,
“Because this nation approaches [Me only] with their words
And honors Me [only] with their lip service,
But they remove their hearts far from Me,
And their reverence for Me is a tradition that is learned by rote [without any regard for its meaning],

Blinded eyes can be reversed

budaatum:
Enish?

Maybe last week this month, albeit doubt play chess

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
"Whom shall he teach knowledge?" and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?

Doctrine,
a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group.

"We", as in some of us, do not have any interest whatsoever in doctrines and beliefs. We abhor brainwashing in ourselves and others.

Even when we teach the laws of physics, we do not teach them as doctrine to be believed, but as propositions to be tested, understood and utilised or debunked. That, is how learning and understanding occurs, and not just by mere believing doctrines.

[If] you live in UK, you'd see the effect of the above. The British do not believe. They instead test every thing with their own god given senses, while Nigerians believe and test nothing. And the consequence of doing either is very clear to see.

budaatum:
Doctrine,
a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group.

"We", as in some of us, do not have any interest whatsoever in doctrines and beliefs.

Thats a banana peel you slipped on there.
Isaiah 28:9 that you latched on, contextually speaking, actually isnt talking of doctrine. That particular bible translation fell short in interpreting correctly the original word

budaatum:
We abhor brainwashing in ourselves and others.

Brain washing is the least of your concern, its heart washing and spirit regeneration (i.e. create inside a clean heart and put a new and right spirit within) that rules and matters

budaatum:
Even when we teach the laws of physics, we do not teach them as doctrine to be believed, but as propositions to be tested, understood and utilised or debunked. That, is how learning and understanding occurs, and not just by mere believing doctrines.

Testing is part of the universal laws. Beloved, testing is not illegal.

budaatum:
[If] you live in UK, you'd see the effect of the above. The British do not believe. They instead test every thing with their own god given senses, while Nigerians believe and test nothing. And the consequence of doing either is very clear to see.

O taste and see that the LORD (i.e. our God) is good. How blessed, fortunate, prosperous and favoured by God is the man who takes refuge & trusts in Him.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
Thats a banana peel you slipped on there.
Isaiah 28:9 that you latched on, contextually speaking, actually isnt talking of doctrine. That particular bible translation fell short in interpreting correctly the original word

The beauty of the text is clear in any version. Two separate questions are asked:

Whom shall he teach knowledge?

Whom shall he make to understand doctrine?

Neither actually implies the teaching of belief nor doctrine per se, but knowledge (what I'd call the inverse of belief), and the understanding of doctrine (and what is believed).

And those it shall be 'teached' to are:

them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

The words "wean" and "drawn", both imply those who have matured enough not to need being fed beliefs because their mind is developed enough to understand and reason.

Hear Paul saying the exact same thing:

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

When he was a child he was unweaned and breast fed doctrines and beliefs he could not understand, which is likely why he rejected them, but when he matured in his ability to understand, he saw clearly.

Unfortunately, everyone thinks they alone see clearly, but they also think everyone else doesn't see at all. Thankfully, fruits don't lie.

P.s. I am intentionally limiting myself to only parts of your response in order to focus. I do read it all, and may address other parts in other posts at a later time.

budaatum:
The beauty of the text is clear in any version. Two separate questions are asked:

Whom shall he teach knowledge?

Whom shall he make to understand doctrine?

Neither actually implies the teaching of belief nor doctrine per se, but knowledge (what I'd call the inverse of belief), and the understanding of doctrine (and what is believed).

And those it shall be 'teached' to are:

them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

The words "wean" and "drawn", both imply those who have matured enough not to need being fed beliefs because their mind is developed enough to understand and reason.

Hear Paul saying the exact same thing:

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

When he was a child he was unweaned and breast fed doctrines and beliefs he could not understand, which is likely why he rejected them, but when he matured in his ability to understand, he saw clearly.

Unfortunately, everyone thinks they alone see clearly, but they also think everyone else doesn't see at all. Thankfully, fruits don't lie.

P.s. I am intentionally limiting myself to only parts of your response in order to focus. I do read it all, and may address other parts in other posts at a later time.

That's exactly the point, bible translations are not necessarily God inspired, and that contextually speaking, that word translated as doctrine in Isaiah 28:9 that you latched on to, isnt at all referring to doctrine.

Prophet Isaiah using rhetorical questions, (i.e. a style that Apostle Paul in NT, often adopts) made a statement in Isaiah 28:9, about knowledge & message(s), suggesting that its for the consumption of the spiritually mature, willing to listen, and with the capacity of understanding God's answers and what they make known.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}