₦airaland Forum

Truthseeker10:
Oga what exactly is your identity? Is 'God' no longer the identity?

If identity encompasses essence and persons, why did you say that Jesus(person) does not have the identity(God) of God(identity) the father(person) but the essence.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

But if the essence of different from identity and person then what is the essence of essence? Hmmm 🤔

Probably the essence is what makes up the person but not the identity but makes two identities of one person. Do you understand now sir 😋

You have two Gods. Your God is one the absolute, He is eternal, He was not created and has no son and none is partner in His kingdom. All praise is to God, the lord of the worlds.

Nachmonides:
Essence has its own meaning, Person (s) has its own meaning.

Identity has its own meaning.

Yes, that's what I mean.

so what you mean is what person identity and essence mean, so the three are what you mean, has they all have meaning. 🤔

gohf:
it's only you that understands what you are saying and maybe those like you, if not well even a madman understands him right?

Don't say if he disagrees, he clearly has disagreed with you and still does because what you say is confusion

The truth is there is no sense in arguing without having anything to do with a team of evangelizers the word "CHRISTIANS" written in the Bible connotes an organized people who were unitedly doing what Jesus (Christ) commanded them {Matthew 28:19-20} no church on this planet has just two members zealously doing this except Jehovah's Witnesses.
Because the scriptures is not for each person to prove a point but for two or three to agree in doing the assignment Jesus gave his disciples that's what makes them his friends! Matthew 18:20

sonmvayina:
Bring it on...I will only accept if in the Hebrew scriptures it says the logos will come as a man in the future to die for the sins of the world..

This is a straw man argument.
The debate here is about validity of trinity.

If I show U from the ancient Jewish scriptures that the logos is a person and created the universe, would U accept it?

That's my question.

DaddyCoool:
They just can't wrap their heads around the fact that Christ is God, though not the Father

If Christ is God and not the father, explain John 1:18. Which 'God' has no man seen at anytime?

gohf:
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

But if the essence of different from identity and person then what is the essence of essence? Hmmm 🤔

Probably the essence is what makes up the person but not the identity but makes two identities of one person. Do you understand now sir 😋

The guy is confused.

gohf:
When I told you this
"The devil is author of confusion and the father of lies, but from God comes wisdom and understanding and revelation."

See where the confusion that came from the devil that you believe has brought you to. Something simple and wonderful revealed by the word of God.

You turn it to a question and answer section where you can't even answer

"If it was neither the Father nor the son that died on the cross, do you mean the figure that died on the cross was just like an empty shell?"

"God created an empty shell with no essence, inhabit this empty shell at some point, then depart the body at the point of crucifixion?"

You can't even answer but start claiming it is obvious Qasim doesn't understand who a man is. Please tell us how he obviously doesn't know who a man is?

And how that relates to you avoiding shamefully the result of you believing the confusions of darkness?

You want to confuse him more by mentioning christology and creation of men.

I think some of you think, either a person has to be a complete fool or exceptional diabolical wise if not they can't be saved.


Asking you who died on the cross was it a man or God? You can't answer directly after proclaiming a lie that suggests God is man and man is God. Instead of believing that Jesus is the son of God, the son of man and he is and was and will never be God

copy Qasim


The biggest confusion with the crucifixion amongst it's antagonist is asking if God died on the cross.

This question is poor understanding of basic metaphysical concept.

A God cannot die, it's impossible for a God to die. God is not bound by the human characteristics of MR NIGER D. God doesn't physically exist in this physical world, he's not bound by time, space or matter. Therefore, there's no reason for him to stop existing in it. Such concept do not arise at all.

Now what is death?
Death is separation of the body from the soul and spirit. The dynamic process of such separation is called death.
When a man's soul and spirit exits his body, we say the man is dead. He no longer exist in this physical world.
That doesn't mean his spirit and soul died.

We have said it thousands of times, Jesus Christ while on earth isn't physically God. He had a human soul and dwelt in a mortal body. It's his spirit that his divine. That's why the correct nominal term for him is the Son of God.

The spirit of Jesus isn't made in the image of God like the rest of humanity. The spirit of Jesus is the exact divine substance of the Father!!!. He is the Son of God.

At the cross, that spirit separated from the mortal body of Christ, that is death. It doesn't mean the spirit died or any God died.

Why this is so hard for people to comprehend is beyond me.
Jesus himself said at the cross, 'Father, my spirit (the God in him) I return you'

God didn't die on the cross, it's ignorance to say such.

Nachmonides:
The Bible has external confirmation with hard evidence.

I have talked about the global catastrophic event and the idea of repeatability of miracles. How that some things are not verifiable through scientific means, how that science is limited.

And that is fine, but that doesn't make what is true not true because science disagrees, or hasn't discovered, or evolved to understanding.

There is no evidence of a global catastrophic flood so that already means the Bible is false, at least on that singular point. And in all likelihood all other ancillary stories to the flood are also false. So for instance there never was a boat made of wood big enough to carry 2 of every land animal on earth. It is physically impossible.

These are very physical things that no amount of religious mental gymnastics will get around.

SIRTee15:
copy Qasim


The biggest confusion with the crucifixion amongst it's antagonist is asking if God died on the cross.

This question is poor understanding of basic metaphysical concept.

A God cannot die, it's impossible for a God to die. God is not bound by the human characteristics of MR NIGER D. God doesn't physically exist in this physical world, he's not bound by time, space or matter. Therefore, there's no reason for him to stop existing in it. Such concept do not arise at all.

Now what is death?
Death is separation of the body from the soul and spirit. The dynamic process of such separation is called death.
When a man's soul and spirit exits his body, we say the man is dead. He no longer exist in this physical world.
That doesn't mean his spirit and soul died.

We have said it thousands of times, Jesus Christ while on earth isn't physically God. He had a human soul and dwelt in a mortal body. It's his spirit that his divine. That's why the correct nominal term for him is the Son of God.

The spirit of Jesus isn't made in the image of God like the rest of humanity. The spirit of Jesus is the exact divine substance of the Father!!!. He is the Son of God.

At the cross, that spirit separated from the mortal body of Christ, that is death. It doesn't mean the spirit died or any God died.

Why this is so hard for people to comprehend is beyond me.
Jesus himself said at the cross, 'Father, my spirit (the God in him) I return you'

God didn't die on the cross, it's ignorance to say such.

According to Genesis 2:7, was Adam given a soul?

According to Genesis 3:19. Did God say that Adam was a 'spirit' and that he would exit the physical realm?

SIRTee15:
copy Qasim


The biggest confusion with the crucifixion amongst it's antagonist is asking if God died on the cross.

This question is poor understanding of basic metaphysical concept.

A God cannot die, it's impossible for a God to die. God is not bound by the human characteristics of MR NIGER D. God doesn't physically exist in this physical world, he's not bound by time, space or matter. Therefore, there's no reason for him to stop existing in it. Such concept do not arise at all.

Now what is death?
Death is separation of the body from the soul and spirit. The dynamic process of such separation is called death.
When a man's soul and spirit exits his body, we say the man is dead. He no longer exist in this physical world.
That doesn't mean his spirit and soul died.

We have said it thousands of times, Jesus Christ while on earth isn't physically God. He had a human soul and dwelt in a mortal body. It's his spirit that his divine. That's why the correct nominal term for him is the Son of God.

The spirit of Jesus isn't made in the image of God like the rest of humanity. The spirit of Jesus is the exact divine substance of the Father!!!. He is the Son of God.

At the cross, that spirit separated from the mortal body of Christ, that is death. It doesn't mean the spirit died or any God died.

Why this is so hard for people to comprehend is beyond me.
Jesus himself said at the cross, 'Father, my spirit (the God in him) I return you'

God didn't die on the cross, it's ignorance to say such.

You have come with that metaphysical believe that originates from hell, what benefit is there from anyone having a proper understanding of the metaphysical concept, ah is that not the depths of Satan Jesus warned about in Revelations.

God didn't die on the cross, Jesus did and Jesus is not God. That should be simple

Now you say, "The spirit of Jesus is the exact divine substance of the Father!!!. He is the Son of God."

But because you believe a lie that Jesus is God you say
"Jesus himself said at the cross, 'Father, my spirit (the God in him) I return you'"


The question is is Jesus God?
Is the spirit of Jesus, Jesus?
If the spirit of Jesus is Jesus then who died on the cross?
If the spirit of Jesus is not Jesus but God, so then when God left him, it means that Jesus is not God. Because according to you Jesus returned God to God.


Is not just that you don't see that you are confused but you also don't realize how you are confused.

You say and you think it makes sense, when it doesn't does it become metaphysical beyong human reasoning then, then how are men supposed to know what has been revealed to them if it is beyond them.

That is why Jesus said God has hidden it from those who think they are wise and revealed it to children.

You say why people don't comprehend, you don't realize you don't even comprehend it.

If Jesus is God and left his body to die, it means it is not Jesus that died. So you are saying that the body of Christ is not Jesus

Then this would make nosense
John.6.54 - But those who eat my flesh and drink my blood have eternal life, and I will raise them at the last day.
John.6.56 He who feeds on My flesh and drinks My blood dwells continually in Me, and I [in like manner dwell continually] in him.

I know we don't eat his physical body but here he refers to his flesh as him.

Truthseeker10:
If Christ is God and not the father, explain John 1:18. Which 'God' has no man seen at anytime?

See below

DaddyCoool:
See below

The screenshot does not explain who the 'God' that man has not seen at anytime is? Kindly explain who that 'God' is.

Truthseeker10:
The screenshot does not explain who the 'God' that man has not seen at anytime is? Kindly explain who that 'God' is.

Are you ok? The Father of course. It states so right on the verse

DaddyCoool:
Are you ok? The Father of course. It states so right on the verse

So the Godship of the father is seperate from the Godship of the son since no one has seen 'God' whichrefers to the father according to John 1:18?

gohf:
always together? Yet the Holy Spirit was sent to us?

Do you understand that when John wrote they are one, he didn't mean in the same place nor did he mean they are one person, he was referring to being witnesses that agree together and testify about the same thing without disagreement but in agreement.

My sister, they're the manifestation of the same Person, God. You can't say God knows and Jesus does not know. They're not independent of each other. Just imagine it in the line of your spirit and soul and body.

gohf:
but it is you that refused to answer my questions and it is you that assumed that because Jesus came from everlasting that he is God, so answer are all things that come from everlasting gods?

It's a simple question, or are you saying nothing else came from everlasting

Because we know that God created the heavens and the earth and let me give you a hand 😊, God called forth light from where?

I didn't see any question that I've not answered. Your question was premises on the devil coming from everlasting which I already debunked.

God is the only person who has no beginning in the entire universe. So what are you questioning again?

DaddyCoool:
You quite welcome. And I appreciate your Christ-like-ness about it. That's what Christianity is all about. NOT some arcane debate as to whether He knew everything. What the heck do we know about the true characteristics of God? Is it not US that decided what should be the qualities of God??

No, we didn't decide what should be the qualities of God. We know of God's qualities from reading about Him in the Scriptures.

Truthseeker10:
So the Godship of the father is seperate from the Godship of the son since no one has seen 'God' whichrefers to the father according to John 1:18?

"Godship"?? THE SON IS GOD!!!! But is NOT the Father. It is like asking me if steam has the same "Watership" as water!

gohf:
🤣🤣
Don't try and comfort yourself take correction and let the Holy Spirit comfort you

No matter how you want to deceive yourself it is written

Mic.5.4 And he will stand to lead his flock with the LORD's strength, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God. Then his people will live there undisturbed, for he will be highly honored all around the world. (NLT)
Mic.5.4 And He shall stand and feed His flock In the strength of the LORD, In the majesty of the name of the LORD His God; And they shall abide, For now He shall be great To the ends of the earth; (NKJV)


The scripture was written for even the simple to gain understanding from and for the humble to become wise with.

Why are you confusing yourself? What exactly are you hitting at using this scripture?

GothamCities:
No, we didn't decide what should be the qualities of God. We know of God's qualities from reading about Him in the Scriptures.

Where in the Bible does it say God must know absolutely everything every moment?

DaddyCoool:
"Godship"?? THE SON IS GOD!!!! But is NOT the Father. It is like asking me if steam has the same "Watership" as water!

So is Jesus seperate from the Father since he is not the Father?

gohf:
you have the nation Israel, get a visa, buy a ticket go there or better still read your history or listen to those who may not lie to you.

Do you know anyone's certification here that you would say yes I believe evidence provided by you.

You can either believe humans are self existing as they are not created or that God who is self existing formed adam and eve and we were born from them

You have New York, get a visa, buy a ticket go there, therefore Thor the god of thunder exists.

DaddyCoool:
Where in the Bible does it say God must know absolutely everything every moment?

As I said, my sister, we know God's qualities from studying the scriptures. Most times, not by direct quotes. You know, it's a kind of knowledge that comes through relationship. Studying the scriptures is one way of relating with God.

Here are some scriptures that suggest God's omniscience.

Psalm 139:1-6 (NIV)
1. You have searched me, Lord, and you know me.
2. You know when I sit and when I rise; you perceive my thoughts from afar.
3. You discern my going out and my lying down; you are familiar with all my ways.
4. Before a word is on my tongue you, Lord, know it completely.
5. You hem me in behind and before, and you lay your hand upon me.
6. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me, too lofty for me to attain.

Isaiah 46:9-10 (NIV)
9. Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.
10. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’

1 John 3:20 (NIV)
20. For whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.

MaxInDHouse:
Great!
Now you're getting closer to the truth.

Remember that Jesus didn't just say wars and rumors of war rather he mentioned several events we can sum up as COMPOSITE SIGN:

In answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you, 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. 9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name. 10 Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. 13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved. 14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:4-14

Verse 5: Some politicians will rise and claim they are the savior of the world.
Verse 6: Wars and rumors of war.
Verse 7: Nations will rise against nations and earthquakes in many places.
Verse 8: These are just the tips of the iceberg.
Verse 9: Jesus' true disciples will be arrested and many of them killed.
Verse 10: Many disciples will give up and begin to hate those sticking to the faith.
Verse 11: Lots of people will be led into false religions claiming Christians.
Verse 12: Because of so much irregularities many will turn to atheism as their love for God cools off.
Verse 13: But few will not give up rather they will stick to what they know is fine in the faith.
Verse 14: The GOOD NEWS of God's Kingdom will be preached in all the nations and disciples of the Prince of Peace will prove to be in all the nations as a witness that he is working and gathering his subjects globally, then the end of badness will come.

Now kindly tell me what period of history has these simultaneously occurred just as it's happening today?

Aside from before Christianity practically every period of written human history had these. Look up the late Bronze age collapse for example. As for since the establishment of Christianity as a religion the only thing missing is the "preached in all the nations" which is even still not completely true because of people like the Sentinelese who have been prohibited from being contacted or the Amazonian tribes that have not been reached at all.

gohf:
but which of the two do you believe big bang of no origin or the flood

WTH is "big bang of no origin"?

GothamCities:
As I said, my sister, we know God's qualities from studying the scriptures. Most times, not by direct quotes. You know, it's a kind of knowledge that comes through relationship. Studying the scriptures is one way of relating with God.

Here are some scriptures that suggest God's omniscience.

Psalm 139:1-6 (NIV)
1. You have searched me, Lord, and you know me.
2. You know when I sit and when I rise; you perceive my thoughts from afar.
3. You discern my going out and my lying down; you are familiar with all my ways.
4. Before a word is on my tongue you, Lord, know it completely.
5. You hem me in behind and before, and you lay your hand upon me.
6. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me, too lofty for me to attain.

Isaiah 46:9-10 (NIV)
9. Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.
10. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’

1 John 3:20 (NIV)
20. For whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.

But nowhere does it say it. God is God because He is eternal and everything is from Him. His Godship is NOT dependent on his knowing everything every moment or his knowing time of second coming!

gohf:
You have come with that metaphysical believe that originates from hell, what benefit is there from anyone having a proper understanding of the metaphysical concept, ah is that not the depths of Satan Jesus warned about in Revelations.

God didn't die on the cross, Jesus did and Jesus is not God. That should be simple

Now you say, "The spirit of Jesus is the exact divine substance of the Father!!!. He is the Son of God."

But because you believe a lie that Jesus is God you say
"Jesus himself said at the cross, 'Father, my spirit (the God in him) I return you'"


The question is is Jesus God?
Is the spirit of Jesus, Jesus?
If the spirit of Jesus is Jesus then who died on the cross?
If the spirit of Jesus is not Jesus but God, so then when God left him, it means that Jesus is not God. Because according to you Jesus returned God to God.


Is not just that you don't see that you are confused but you also don't realize how you are confused.

You say and you think it makes sense, when it doesn't does it become metaphysical beyong human reasoning then, then how are men supposed to know what has been revealed to them if it is beyond them.

That is why Jesus said God has hidden it from those who think they are wise and revealed it to children.

You say why people don't comprehend, you don't realize you don't even comprehend it.

If Jesus is God and left his body to die, it means it is not Jesus that died. So you are saying that the body of Christ is not Jesus

Then this would make nosense
John.6.54 - But those who eat my flesh and drink my blood have eternal life, and I will raise them at the last day.
John.6.56 He who feeds on My flesh and drinks My blood dwells continually in Me, and I [in like manner dwell continually] in him.

I know we don't eat his physical body but here he refers to his flesh as him.

Your theology illiteracy is beyond ordinary?
And U call yourself a Christian and bible believer is what amaze me.

Let me ask U a question.

Why did the bible calls human Elohim- the exact same word for God.
Yes bible said humans are Gods.

Why did the bible call mortal men Gods?

LordReed:
Aside from before Christianity practically every period of written human history had these. Look up the late Bronze age collapse for example. As for since the establishment of Christianity as a religion the only thing missing is the "preached in all the nations" which is even still not completely true because of people like the Sentinelese who have been prohibited from being contacted or the Amazonian tribes that have not been reached at all.

Well i have Good News for you that apart from North Korea there is no country where Jehovah's Witnesses haven't reached with the Good News of PEACE!

Truthseeker10:
So is Jesus seperate from the Father since he is not the Father?

You are just trying to be smart instead of being honest. You already instinctively know what it is.
Christ can't be anything but God (God doesn'thave sons - otherwise you'd have to talk of mother, uncle, etc), but a manifestation that's different from the Father. They share the same divine nature and are considered one God, but with distinct "personhoods"

DaddyCoool:
"Godship"?? THE SON IS GOD!!!! But is NOT the Father. It is like asking me if steam has the same "Watership" as water!

I love your water analogy.

If water=God
Liquid=water.
Steam=water.
Block=water.

Let's say liquid = father, steam= Son, block= Holy spirit.

If I see Jesus(steam), can I say that I have not seen water(God) just because I did not see liquid(father)?

That is exactly what John 1:18 is saying. The verse says no man has seen God(water) at anytime not liquid(father). So how can that verse ever be correct when it says that no one has seen water(God) at anytime when people actually saw steam(Jesus) which is also water(God)?

DaddyCoool:
You are just trying to be smart instead of being honest. You already instinctively know what it is.
Christ can't be anything but God (God doesn'thave sons - otherwise you'd have to talk of mother, uncle, etc), but a manifestation that's different from the Father. They share the same divine nature and are considered one God, but with distinct "personhoods"

So the personhoods are not the same right? If yes, it clearly means that they are separate because when people saw Jesus, they were not seeing the Father. Do you agree?