₦airaland Forum

Steep:
So do you now agree that John said Jesus was God?

gohf:
Even the person that wrote ho theos phos estin didn't declare that Jesus is God, you obviously don't and refuse to know nor learn the difference between theon and theos

Of course I knew you would leave everything I wrote and mention 1 John 1:5 even without looking at the context of what John was writing but he isn't the first person to refer to God has light
Ps.84.11 - For the LORD God is our light and protector. He gives us grace and glory. No good thing will the LORD withhold from those who do what is right.
Note that other versions may use God is a sun and shield and maybe people like you then would read that and start bowing to the sun. Forgetting the very commandments of God.

Do you understand this verse in Revelations
Rev.21.23 - And the city has no need of sun or moon, for the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its light.

2Cor.4.6 - For God, who said, "Let there be light in the darkness," has made us understand that this light is the brightness of the glory of God that is seen in the face of Jesus Christ.

Now this is where you shot yourself in the foot, because you imagined to yourself that I didn't know 1 John 1:5, you are talking about traps and reflectors when you are this blind

Listen, did you forget Jesus said in Matt.5.14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.

so there isn't just three gods but at least more than four, well if we count the seven spirits of God plus at least 144,000 Hebrews there's at least according to your logic 144,009 God's 😀😁

gohf:
Even the person that wrote ho theos phos estin didn't declare that Jesus is God, you obviously don't and refuse to know nor learn the difference between theon and theos

Of course I knew you would leave everything I wrote and mention 1 John 1:5 even without looking at the context of what John was writing but he isn't the first person to refer to God has light
Ps.84.11 - For the LORD God is our light and protector. He gives us grace and glory. No good thing will the LORD withhold from those who do what is right.
Note that other versions may use God is a sun and shield and maybe people like you then would read that and start bowing to the sun. Forgetting the very commandments of God.

Do you understand this verse in Revelations
Rev.21.23 - And the city has no need of sun or moon, for the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its light.

2Cor.4.6 - For God, who said, "Let there be light in the darkness," has made us understand that this light is the brightness of the glory of God that is seen in the face of Jesus Christ.

Now this is where you shot yourself in the foot, because you imagined to yourself that I didn't know 1 John 1:5, you are talking about traps and reflectors when you are this blind

Listen, did you forget Jesus said in Matt.5.14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.

so there isn't just three gods but at least more than four, well if we count the seven spirits of God plus at least 144,000 Hebrews there's at least according to your logic 144,009 God's 😀😁

LordReed:
Produce the evidence then.

Steep:
John said God is light, that is he describing who God is, meaning whoever can be described as light is God.

Nachmonides:
Lol, evidence again.

You seem to love science so much.
Science is stupid in many regards.

What do I mean?:

The perceived "stupidity" of science when it comes to abstract concepts like faith often lies in the misapplication of scientific tools to phenomena they are not designed to measure. Science relies on empirical evidence, repeatability, and measurable data, whereas faith often deals with personal experience, spirituality, and beliefs beyond material evidence.

Example: Using a Thermometer to Measure Love

Imagine trying to use a thermometer to measure someone's love for their partner. The thermometer might give you the room temperature or body heat, but it tells you nothing about the depth of their feelings. The problem isn’t with the thermometer—it’s excellent at what it was designed to do. The issue is the mismatch between the tool and the concept being examined.

Similarly, when science tries to evaluate faith using empirical methods, it risks overlooking the subjective and transcendent aspects that define faith, just as the thermometer misses the essence of love.


Same thing with the demand for evidence on religious texts like the Bible which don't seek to be scientific, but theological passing across a message and may include things science may be able to confirm, where the Bible seems to say something (a scenario, event) to be literal, we are to analyse and see if it's something scientific tools can analyse and produce evidence for. If it's not, then either we have misinterpreted the text or science is limited in what it can currently analyse and produce evidence for.




I am an ardent supporter of science, however there are certain points science diverges with the Bible, and THAT IS FINE , it doesn't mean either must be wrong.

MaxInDHouse:
A composite sign is what Jesus gave and surely you can't say earthquakes or food shortages or wars and rumors of war or any of the signs should not have happened before to convince a right thinking person rather what we need is a time all these things will occur simultaneously to prove that the time Jesus talked about is here!

DaddyCoool:
Are you a small child that everything has to be spelt out for you or are you just being ridiculous?? Same John states in Chapter 14, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father." Unless you're saying John was drunk and knowingly contradicting himself.

Look, you can’t ordinarily see spirit because it's a different dimension. It has to manifest into something you can see. You already instinctively know this. Cut the dumb questions.

Sun: the analogy is of course approximate as nothing in our existence can exactly analogize it.
But even then you'er wrong. The Father doesn't have the same identity as "the Sun" because "the sun" encompasses EVERYTHING about the sun (including rays, heat, etc), while the Father is only the sun itself. In other words ray that hits the earth is the sun but not the father, just as Christ is God but not the Father

DaddyCoool:
Can you please explain "rumors of wars" in today's context.

Steep:
you should go back to my previous reply and then read slowly.

MaxInDHouse:
You are the LIGHT! Matthew 5:14

Are Jesus' disciples Gods?

Steep:
Jesus is the true light. Jesus' disciples reflect the light of christ.

Truthseeker10:
There is nothing to read slowly about.
Below in the screenshot is the diagram of the Trinity.
You can clearly see that three separate persons(The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit) Have one essence (God) in the middle of the diagram.

So how can John 1:1 tell you that GOD(essence) in the middle of the diagram is with THE GOD(essence) also in the middle of the diagram. Does that not Show that the essence Of GOD is separate from the ESSENCE of THE GOD? So why are you arguing that GOD and THE GOD have the same essence or nature?

MaxInDHouse:
Didn't Jesus also say he REFLECTS the light of his father? John 5:30

MaxInDHouse:
Politics cause WAR so when a politician found out that with all he has the people refused to accept him as ruler they create confusion among the people which leads to fear and such fears leads to RUMORS OF WAR.

For instance when Jonathan discovered that his opponents are ready to bring war to Nigeria if he didn't leave the office he said:

"I am not desperate to rule and my stay in the office of Mr President doesn't worth the lives of Nigerians"

Why did he make this statement?

Because he heard RUMORS OF IMPENDING WAR if he insisted to remain in the office of Mr President.

DaddyCoool:
The statement is "wars and rumors of wars" meaning "wars going on and rumors of wars going on" Clearly not what you described. Thanks for your effort anyway, I'm just tired of that anachronistic phrase

DaddyCoool:
Can you please explain "rumors of wars" in today's context. It seems to me anachronistic - those days it was hard and took time to verify information. Not so today. Either there is a war or there is not. So out with the annoying "rumors of wars" stuff

Steep:
In that diagram you are seeing one God at the middle are you not?
So where does the three God essences come from?
God is one but shared by three persons, so each person could properly be called God.
The father is God, The Son is God and The Holy Spirit is God all have same essence, they are same being buy different persons.

Truthseeker10:
So Jesus as a seperate person from the Father in heaven was not a spirit before he came to earth?
Are you saying that there was nothing like ,The Father, The son, The Holy Spirit before Jesus earthly mission?
So who exactly came as the human Jesus? Was it The Father that was not seen directly or it was The Son that was seen directly according to your explanation?


You are a fraud fron the statement you wrote above about the Sun analogy. The water analogy was a perfect analogy of how three persons have seperate identities(liquid, steam, block) with one essence (water).

"The Father(Sun) is only the sun(GOD) itself".....( in other words, The Son(Ray) and The Holy Spirit(heat) are not the sun(GOD) itself). Can you see how dumb your sun analogy is?

Truthseeker10:
The diagram clearly shows the meaning of the word GOD. The word GOD cannot exist without the combination of three persons(father, son, holy spirit).

DaddyCoool:
You are really begining to make me question having this discussion with you.
Jesus was man AND God! The eternal Spirit of God occupied a human body!!

The water analogy is not perfect at all because the three (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) exist simultaneously and distinctly, unlike water which cannot be ice, liquid, and steam all at once!

The Father is that thing you point to when asked to point to the sun (doesn't include sunrays, etc). God ("the sun"} includes all of them and all of them are the sun

Steep:
Nope it says no such thing.

Truthseeker10:
You are confused. Go back to the diagram of the Trinity that I sent you earlier. The diagram clearly shows the meaning of the word 'GOD'. the word GOD cannot exist without the three personhood. Anytime you call the word GOD, you are actually calling three persons(The Father, the son, the holy spirit) in the Trinity. You cannot call the father 'GOD' in Isolation of the son and the holy spirit because they are partakers of that word 'GOD'.

Your SUN(GOD) analogy is flawed because you are trying to play smart. If the identity of THE Father is (sun) then the identity of the The Son must be (SUN and not ray) and the identity of The Holy Spirit must be (SUN and not heat) they are all SUN itself except you have a different identity name for THE FATHER.

DaddyCoool:
I don't want to call you ignoramus. How many times have you been told the Father/God terms are used INTERCHANGEABLY??! You've already been told to memorize that word!

Am I not the one who showed you that all the analogies are flawed?? But not in the dumb way you say. The sun analogy is actually better than the water analogy that you said was perfect!
The sun remains in its place and we can't really see the sun whereas the light travels to us and transfers the heat of the sun to us. We could say that the unseeable Father sends His Holy Spirit to us through the Son to give us the gifts of His Holy Spirit. No such analogy with water/ice/steam

Truthseeker10:
You are confused with the whole God, Father, Son and holy spirit concept.

Below in the screenshot is the diagram of the Trinity doctrine.

What is the meaning of the word 'GOD' in the diagram below, and how many persons make up that one word 'GOD'?

DaddyCoool:
The diagram is flawed because the father sends the son and spirit while remaining in its place. Thus conveys non of that. The sun analogy does

Truthseeker10:
Ah🤣🤣🤣....a whole TRINITY diagram is flawed? Na wa oo🤣🤣🤣 steep and Nachmonides come and see something oo from your fellow trinity member.

So water Analogy is flawed.
Sun analogy is flawed.
Trinity diagram is flawed.

Kindly provide a diagram of GOD, The FATHER, THE SON AND HOLY SPIRIT that is not flawed for the sake of sustaining your sanity of the Trinity doctrine.

DaddyCoool:
I have to assume you are NOT really dumb but only acting dumb.
I already told you there is nothing in our reality that can analogize God and his manifestations.

I'm sure you instinctively know that God is unknowable to us. He is a capital MYSTERY that we only vaguely sense through his effects. God is pure spirit, totally immaterial, and if we only knew how laughable are our feeble attempts to represent Him in illustration!
Does the above statement in bold mean that your diagram below is also flawed? If yes, get me a diagram that is without flaw to explain your flawless trinity doctrine?

This diagram below is as good as any we can come up with

DaddyCoool:
I have to assume you are NOT really dumb but only acting dumb.
I already told you there is nothing in our reality that can analogize God and his manifestations.

I'm sure you instinctively know that God is unknowable to us. He is a capital MYSTERY that we only vaguely sense through his effects. God is pure spirit, totally immaterial, and if we only knew how laughable are our feeble attempts to represent Him in illustration!

This diagram below is as good as any we can come up with

Truthseeker10:
Does the above statement in bold mean that your diagram below is also flawed? If yes, get me a diagram that is without flaw to explain your flawless trinity doctrine.

DaddyCoool:
OF COURSE my diagram is flawed! Any diagram you can IMAGINE coming up with necessarily has to be flawed. That's the point! How can you draw something that is outside this dimension?? It is like asking someone in a two-dimensional world (with no concept of up or down) to draw a 3-dimensional object!

LordReed:
I am seeing the composite and it is not special. Just show me any period of history in which any of these things didn't occur.