₦airaland Forum

Gabrielshow24:
why then did you say Jesus is not God!

Also What is the definition of Father? 🤨

Maybe your misquoting me. I have maintained that Jesus is god all through my write-ups. So that's settle.
Secondly, Jesus is not the Father. Jesus himself and the apostles made that clear. The Father is greater than Jesus and he has put everything under his son Jesus. 1 Corinthians 15:27-28. Or are you claiming that Jesus is the son and also the Father? I don't get it. The word of Jesus after his resurrection made it clear in John 20:17.
John 20:17
[17]“Don’t cling to me,” Jesus said, “for I haven’t yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

There is no where in the scriptures where Jesus or any of his apostle taught us that Jesus is the Father, but they taught us that the Father sent his son to be in charge of all his creation through salvation.
Do u have any contrary view to this?

Gabrielshow24:
This same old circular reasoning!!!

Exposing all the son's of disobedience! Ephesians 2:2

immaculatesense:
Do u have any contrary view to this?

The funny thing about you is expecting a son of disobedience to agree with you on the same line of thought regarding the identity of Jesus.
No matter what you say as long as you refuse to accept what Jehovah's Witnesses teach you can never ever find a single church where their teaching will suit you to join them and WORK together with them as disciples who will preach and teach to make disciples!

That is what i tried to find for more than two decades and i discovered that there is none.

immaculatesense:
Maybe your misquoting me. I have maintained that Jesus is god all through my write-ups. So that's settle.
Secondly, Jesus is not the Father. Jesus himself and the apostles made that clear. The Father is greater than Jesus and he has put everything under his son Jesus. 1 Corinthians 15:27-28. Or are you claiming that Jesus is the son and also the Father? I don't get it. The word of Jesus after his resurrection made it clear in John 20:17.
John 20:17
[17]“Don’t cling to me,” Jesus said, “for I haven’t yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

There is no where in the scriptures where Jesus or any of his apostle taught us that Jesus is the Father, but they taught us that the Father sent his son to be in charge of all his creation through salvation.
Do u have any contrary view to this?

What's the definition of "Father"?
I will like to know your definition 🙃

MaxInDHouse:
The funny thing about you is expecting a son of disobedience to agree with you on the same line of thought regarding the identity of Jesus.
No matter what you say as long as you refuse to accept what Jehovah's Witnesses teach you can never ever find a single church where their teaching will suit you to join them and WORK together with them as disciples who will preach and teach to make disciples!

Indeed 🙃.
Coming from the worshipper of a non-transcendental God🥲.

The irony of it all, "Energy is everywhere" but God of JW is not!!!! 😂😂😂

Your entire premise is always centered around appeal to people - argumentum ad populum!!!

It doesn't matter whether what you say is false or true as long as you have your "brothers" it's right🤕.

MaxInDHouse:
The funny thing about you is expecting a son of disobedience to agree with you on the same line of thought regarding the identity of Jesus.
No matter what you say as long as you refuse to accept what Jehovah's Witnesses teach you can never ever find a single church where their teaching will suit you to join them and WORK together with them as disciples who will preach and teach to make disciples!

Am sorry, but I will like to be polite to him. I have also held his views before when I was loyal to Denominationalism. But when I grew in the word I learnt from the spirit himself. I have always proposed the best way the Trinity message can be taught in a more scriptural and uncomplicated way. Jesus is only god in his divinity, he is not the Father and the Father is superior to him. Jesus himself made that clear severally. I don't know why people just want to stick to something that is not scriptural.

Gabrielshow24:
What's the definition of "Father"?
I will like to know your definition 🙃

Father is the progenitor of a child. The Father in this case is the progenitor or bearer of his son Jesus.
Wait. Are you saying Jesus is the Father, cos Jesus never said he is the Father, not once, not ever? I guess your not trying to imply that. Because I would have asked you to explain 1 Corinthians 15:28 and it will be impossible for you to explain. Because that verse alone out of other related verses show a VERY CLEAR distinction between Jesus (the son) and his Father.
Note: Jesus was (begotten) of the Father, but the Father was (unbegotten). Jesus has his authority and sufficiency from the Father, the Father has his authority and sufficiency from none.

immaculatesense:
Father is the progenitor of a child. The Father in this case is the progenitor or bearer of his son Jesus.
Wait. Are you saying Jesus is the Father, cos Jesus never said he is the Father, not once, not ever? I guess your not trying to imply that. Because I would have asked you to explain 1 Corinthians 15:28 and it will be impossible for you to explain. Because that verse alone out of other related verses show a VERY CLEAR distinction between Jesus (the son) and his Father.
Note: Jesus was (begotten) of the Father, but the Father was (unbegotten). Jesus has his authority and sufficiency from the Father, the Father has his authority and sufficiency from none.

I never said anything, it's you trying to infer my standpoint 😁.
Part of the characteristic of God is what? 🙃
Or better put is Fatherhood part of the characteristic of God?

Gabrielshow24:
It doesn't matter whether what you say is false or true as long as you have your "brothers" it's right🤕.

Do you think Judaists believe that Jesus and his disciples are teaching the truth yet the Jewish nation in general rejected Jesus?

Gabrielshow24:
I never said anything, it's you trying to infer my standpoint 😁.
Part of the characteristic of God is what? 🙃
Or better put is Fatherhood part of the characteristic of God?

Sir, I think I need to know your standpoint before we move forward. What exactly is ur standpoint on this issue so at least I can know exactly what you want from me and not just answering your questions vaguely.

immaculatesense:
But when I grew in the word I learnt from the spirit himself.

Exactly the same thing all of you claims rendering you unproductive!

Jesus formed a group (disciples) that he sent out in pairs {Luke 10:1} to preach and teach what he taught them {Matthew 10:11-13} so that the system will continues until they cover the planet with the teaching of Jesus {Matthew 28:19-20; Act 1:8} that is what will make them One with Jesus and his father {John 17:20-23} but contradicting teachings are the works of Satan the rebel so that you people will never come to an agreement on how to do the work Jesus assigned to his faithful disciples instead you will continue arguing against one another each claiming he is been taught by the Holy Spirit!

MaxInDHouse:
Do you think Judaists believe that Jesus and his disciples are teaching the truth yet the Jewish nation in general rejected Jesus?

You drawing parallels between you and The circumstances of Jesus with the Jews doesn't make your statements any wise True!!!

MaxInDHouse:
Exactly the same thing all of you claims rendering you unproductive!

Jesus formed a group (disciples) that he sent out in pairs {Luke 10:1} to preach and teach what he taught them {Matthew 10:11-13} so that the system will continues until they cover the planet with the teaching of Jesus {Matthew 28:19-20; Act 1:8} that is what will make them One with Jesus and his father {John 17:20-23} but contradicting teachings are the works of Satan the rebel so that you people will never come to an agreement on how to do the work Jesus assigned to his faithful disciples instead you will continue arguing against one another each claiming he is been taught by the Holy Spirit!

This is why a sane person will say you have comprehension problems!!!

What you allude to is totally different from the problem statement!!!

Your straw man fallacies are just too glaring and it's become rather pathetic!!!

immaculatesense:
Maybe your misquoting me. I have maintained that Jesus is god all through my write-ups. So that's settle.
Secondly, Jesus is not the Father. Jesus himself and the apostles made that clear. The Father is greater than Jesus and he has put everything under his son Jesus. 1 Corinthians 15:27-28. Or are you claiming that Jesus is the son and also the Father? I don't get it. The word of Jesus after his resurrection made it clear in John 20:17.
John 20:17
[17]“Don’t cling to me,” Jesus said, “for I haven’t yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

There is no where in the scriptures where Jesus or any of his apostle taught us that Jesus is the Father, but they taught us that the Father sent his son to be in charge of all his creation through salvation.
Do u have any contrary view to this?

Ever heard of the Everlasting Father?

immaculatesense:
Sir, I think I need to know your standpoint before we move forward. What exactly is ur standpoint on this issue so at least I can know exactly what you want from me and not just answering your questions vaguely.

Is it a vague question?
That fatherhood is part of the characteristics of God? 🤔

Or is it because of the false projections which you have formed, based on the chimes of Max, that's why you assume I believe Jesus is the same as the Father?

What you discuss and what will be discussed is always about identity !!!

Nothing more.
No one disputes that the two identities are different!!!

I just wanted to show you that Jesus is both God and Lord.

And these two: God and Lord are nothing more but concepts construed and anything can fit in; if it matches the boundaries of such conceptual definitions!!!

Gabrielshow24:
You drawing parallels between you and The circumstances of Jesus with the Jews doesn't make your statements any wise True!!!

Well the same spirit (Satan) who blinded the minds of Jews back then so that the salvation plan to unite all faithful people throughout the earth will never work with them! 2Corinthians 4:4

So my guy this is how you will continue to argue from place to place with people of different religions claiming you people are DENOMINATIONS of the same religion!

MaxInDHouse:
Well the same spirit (Satan) who blinded the minds of Jews back then so that the salvation plan to unite all faithful people throughout the earth will never work with them! 2Corinthians 4:4

So my guy this is how you will continue to argue from place to place with people of different religions claiming you people are DENOMINATIONS of the same religion!

🤤 Argumentum ad populum 🥂.

The more you quote your townsmen, the more I refer you to cipolla🧐.

MaxInDHouse:
Exactly the same thing all of you claims rendering you unproductive!

Jesus formed a group (disciples) that he sent out in pairs {Luke 10:1} to preach and teach what he taught them {Matthew 10:11-13} so that the system will continues until they cover the planet with the teaching of Jesus {Matthew 28:19-20; Act 1:8} that is what will make them One with Jesus and his father {John 17:20-23} but contradicting teachings are the works of Satan the rebel so that you people will never come to an agreement on how to do the work Jesus assigned to his faithful disciples instead you will continue arguing against one another each claiming he is been taught by the Holy Spirit!

You can't make me speak against the JW. I have them as friends and benefactors. I respect them a lot. I know your organization and other denomination history and doctrine like the back of my hands. Every denomination has its flaw. No one should prove holier than thou mentality. The perfect teacher is the spirit and he teaches people with time as they grow in him. Even at a point, the disciples you refer who were all Jews thought the salvation message was only for the Jews and they preached only to Jews living within and outside Jerusalem unlike the Cornelius story in Act 10. But with time they grew in the spirit and into their mission.
That is why I always tell people that to grow, you must not be faithful to your organization or your denomination but the word and the spirit. Maxim, you have a lot in stock, but you need to be broad minded and circumspect.
Thanks.

Gabrielshow24:
This is why a sane person will say you have a comprehension problems!!!
What you allude to is totally different from the problem statement!!!
Your straw man fallacies are just too glaring and it's become rather pathetic!!!

Of course a true believer who perfectly agrees with his fellow believers {Matthew 12:46-50} will be viewed as having comprehension problem nah! Mark 3:21; John 10:20; Act 26:24

Gabrielshow24:
🤤 Argumentum ad populum 🥂.

The more you quote your townsmen, the more I refer you to cipolla🧐.

YES o!

I will continue to quote what my people penned down as examples for faithful people in my time! 1Corinthans 10:11

Gabrielshow24:
Is it a vague question?
That fatherhood is part of the characteristics of God? 🤔

Or is it because of the false projections which you have formed, based on the chimes of Max, that's why you assume I believe Jesus is the same as the Father?

What you discuss and what will be discussed is always about identity !!!

Nothing more.
No one disputes that the two identities are different!!!

I just wanted to show you that Jesus is both God and Lord.

And these two: God and Lord are nothing more but concepts construed and anything can fit in; if it matches the boundaries of such conceptual definitions!!!

Sir, i didn't even pay attention to your conversation with Max. If I had, maybe I would have known ur opinion. Your view is beautiful and true.
1. Jesus is Lord and God. The statement of Thomas proves that the disciples believed that Jesus is Lord and God.
John 20:28-29
[28]“My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.
[29]Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”

2. The son, Jesus, is subject to the Father in all things and even in the Future, the Father will be all in all. 1 Corinthians 15:28 also proves that.
1 Corinthians 15:28
[28]Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

If we both agree on these two grounds. Then I don't think there is a problem. Do you?

MaxInDHouse:
Of course a true believer who perfectly agrees with his fellow believers {Matthew 12:46-50} will be viewed as having comprehension problem nah! Mark 3:21; John 10:20; Act 26:24

We have been down this road, after this

I won't dignify your stupidity with a response🧐.

Even fools can see you are talking off point🤨.

And it's become rather uncanny that a purported Christian brother lacks basic understanding 🥲.

immaculatesense:
Sir, i didn't even pay attention to your conversation with Max. If I had, maybe I would have known ur opinion. Your view is beautiful and true.
1. Jesus is Lord and God. The statement of Thomas proves that the disciples believed that Jesus is Lord and God.
John 20:28-29
[28]“My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.
[29]Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”

2. The son, Jesus, is subject to the Father in all things and even in the Future, the Father will be all in all. 1 Corinthians 15:28 also proves that.
1 Corinthians 15:28
[28]Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

If we both agree on these two grounds. Then I don't think there is a problem. Do you?

Of course, I do.
Now do you allude to the JW 'fact' that Jesus is Michael 🤨?

immaculatesense:
The perfect teacher is the spirit and he teaches people with time as they grow in him.

OK, so it's the Holy Spirit that's teaching you shey?
Well i will be here when your friends who are taught by the same spirit disagree to WORK together as one inspite of your so called FAITH! John 2:18

As for Jehovah's Witnesses please don't hate them for what i'm saying o but be rest assured that none of them see you as his or her fellow believer in Christ Jesus because we must WORK together if truly we are One in Christ to the glory of our heavenly Father! John 17:20-23

So if that's not possible then you aren't worshiping our God.

You can ask any of them to expatiate on what i just told you.

Peace!

Gabrielshow24:
We have been down this road, after this

I won't dignify your stupidity with a response🧐.

Even fools can see you are talking off point🤨.

And it's become rather uncanny that a purported brother neighbour lacks basic understanding 🥲.

I have told you countless times that you can never ever be my BROTHER the only room open for people like you is being my NEIGHBOUR!

Gabrielshow24:
Of course, I do.
Now do you allude to the JW 'fact' that Jesus is Michael 🤨?

Our teachings is not like what you people like as you pick what suits you from different religions and later start claiming a spirit is teaching you.

You will pick little from Deeperlife, little from Winners, little from Cele so that you won't be submissive to any of them.

NO!

Only our Governing Body is the group our God is using to dispense spiritual food to us so we don't subscribe to interfaith {Matthew 16:6, 12} so failure to accept everything we teach means it's not the spirit of our God that's teaching you!

cornelboy:
I'm okay with the title

Explain how a man and a woman become one when they got married, yet they are two different person? Matt 19:5

Jesus is a God (he's divine and all) of course and he is one with the father just like a man is one with his wife (read John 17, see how jesus prayed that his disciples should be one just like he's one with the Father.), but not same person with Father obviously

I want to give you an answer that I believe will finally help you understand that Jesus Christ and his Father are one God.
Let's begin with your very own beliefs. You believe that the Father of Jesus Christ is the God in the Old Testament right?
If so, Let's build this discussion from there.

Before then, remember we read in John 17 that the Father is the only one true God right? Keep that in mind as we go on.

How many Saviors do we have? One or two?

Isaiah 43:11I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me, there is no Saviour.

Jude 25
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

1 John 4:14
14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Acts 4:10-12
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

From reading these verses, how many Saviors do we have? If you say one, but then we see that in different instances, both the Father and the Son have been called our Saviour yet we believe that there is only one Saviour as the scripture teaches. We see both the Son and Father addressed by the Same title but the name or title is one.

Let's take another example.
Who is the First and the Last? Or do we have two First and the Last
Isaiah 44:6:
"Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.
Isaiah 41:4:
"Who has performed and done this, calling the generations from the beginning? I, the Lord, the first, and with the last;
Revelation 1:17-18

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 21
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Again do we have 2 Firsts and Lasts, or 2 beginings? No, we don't. But we can see that everything the Father is, the Son becomes yet they remain one.
Their name and Title are not split. Everything the Father has he gave to his Son and the Son will give to us

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Now we learn that the Father is God, and the Son is also God and they are one.
Just like both Father and Son are the Saviour yet we have only one Saviour, both are the First and the Last, Both are Everlasting Father yet we have but one Saviour, So are both of them the one true God yet we worship and know one God.

This is the message from the bible

Here are other references to the Son taking up the Father's position/title and yet they remain one not two.

Lord:
Father: Deuteronomy 10:17 ("For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords..."
Son: Philippians 2:11 ("and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

God:
Father: John 17:3 ("And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."
Son: John 1:1 ("In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
King:
Father: 1 Timothy 1:17 ("To the King of ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen."
Son: Revelation 19:16 ("On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords."

Judge:
Father: Psalm 94:2 ("Rise up, O Judge of the earth; repay to the proud what they deserve!"
Son: John 5:22 ("For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son..."

Shepherd:
Father: Psalm 23:1 ("The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want."
Son: John 10:11 ("I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep."

The Alpha and Omega/The beginning and the end:
Father: Revelation 21:6 ("And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment."

Son: Revelation 22:13 ("I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

So how come you don't see that both are the one true God? how come yu don't see that everything the father is the Son has become?

I pasted every scriptural verse so you can understand it as you read. Ask questions If you have any.

MaxInDHouse:
OK, so it's the Holy Spirit that's teaching you shey?
Well i will be here when your friends who are taught by the same spirit disagree to WORK together as one inspite of your so called FAITH! John 2:18

As for Jehovah's Witnesses please don't hate them for what i'm saying o but be rest assured that none of them see you as his or her fellow believer in Christ Jesus because we must WORK together if truly we are One in Christ to the glory of our heavenly Father! John 17:20-23

So if that's not possible then you aren't worshiping our God.

You can ask any of them to expatiate on what i just told you.

Peace!

Smile. My JW friends and benefactors see me more like family and trust me with their secrets and children.
The holy Spirit is my teacher and a trustworthy one at that. Imagine his role in teaching the first Apostles even when there was no new testament scriptures or antecedents. The holy was all they needed to guide them into all truth.
John 16:13
[13]When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.

Thank you.

Gabrielshow24:
Of course, I do.
Now do you allude to the JW 'fact' that Jesus is Michael 🤨?

No. That's not evident in the scriptures. If Jesus is Michael as they claimed, the John of Patmos in his revelation would have clearly stated that, and also Jude in Jude 1:9, but he distinctly mention Michael as an angel.
They may have their reasons based on their interpretation of Daniel 12:1, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and Revelation 12:7.
Thanks.

immaculatesense:
Smile. My JW friends and benefactors see me more like family and trust me with their secrets and children.
The holy Spirit is my teacher and a trustworthy one at that. Imagine his role in teaching the first Apostles even when there was no new testament scriptures or antecedents. The holy was all they needed to guide them into all truth.
John 16:13
[13]When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.
Thank you.

What you failed to understand is that the Holy Spirit only teaches where Jesus is the invisible chairman and Jesus only attends such meeting where two or three are GATHERED TOGETHER {Matthew 18:20} not just one person imagining things alone!

For the sake of innocent readers, what Max commits here is slothful induction fallacy!!!

Where against overwhelming evidence that Jesus is not Michael, he still insists for the furtherance of his own personal or denominational beliefs that Jesus is.

Also what he also commits is the famous correlation means causation fallacy!!!

Apart from this, he is also heavily involved in hasty generalization, false equivocations, appeal to population, appeal to hypocrisy, appeal to authority (posting one actor's statement), motte and Bailey(attack his posits then he retreats to drawing comparisons with Jesus or mentioning things like true believers showing works) and straw God/man fallacy which are direct consequents of his false antecedents!!!

A sane person won't take you serious!!!
You're intellectually dishonest and incoherent!!!

At best your comprehension is that of a five year old!!!

And I have told you before that if you continue this way, I will expose you for the liar you're.

All the times we had an discussion, you saw how you were vanquished!!!

You were mocking StillDtruth of not being at your intellectual level, now here is one with a baby's🙃 intellectual level and yet you're scrambling! Can't seem to face the problem topic at hand, always eluding🥲.

This is just the beginning!!!

immaculatesense:
No. That's not evident in the scriptures. If Jesus is Michael as they claimed, the John of Patmos in his revelation would have clearly stated that, and also Jude in Jude 1:9, but he distinctly mention Michael as an angel.
They may have their reasons based on their interpretation of Daniel 12:1, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and Revelation 12:7.
Thanks.

I applaud you for your sincerity!!!

You're different from him🥲.
Even the verses they allude to condemns them!!!

I remember when I asked your friend, Max, how he would reconcile the phrase "one of the chief princes" with other characteristics of Jesus, you should have seen the way he reinvented set theory🤣🤣🤣.

Coining the term "First set" 🙃.
It's nice having a logical discourse with you.

It's shows you are indeed harmless as a dove and wise as a serpent🙃.