₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
That's why you can't be my brother in the faith because one must be right while the other must be wrong if we are truthful to ourselves there can't be two contradicting statements and both will be right!

6 will be 6 to me if I am looking north and it will be nine to you if you are looking south. Who is wrong and who is right? The one facing south or the one facing north?
It will be difficult if you are a judge to pass verdict if you don't look at it from both side. People will just claim you are biased as they used to claim that you are biased towards JW doctrine.

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ if it wasn't a problem then why are Jews till today disputing over Jesus being a prophet from their God?
https://premierchristian.news/en/news/article/proposed-bill-to-criminalise-speaking-about-jesus-in-israel-is-just-one-guys-axe-to-grind

There is a lot you're missing walahi talahi!

It's their problem not his.

immaculatesense:
6 will be 6 to me if I am looking north and it will be nine to you if you are looking south. Who is wrong and who is right? The one facing south or the one facing north? It will be difficult if you are a judge to pass verdict if you don't look at it from both side. People will just claim you are biased as they used to claim that you are biased towards JW doctrine.

That's how many rejected Jesus so it's not new!

immaculatesense:
You know the etymology of the name JEHOVAH is controversial. The semitic language at the time and the Canaan people have a god called Yahweh at the time according to the Ugaritic text which predicted the book of Job which is the oldest book of the Bible. Just like Yoruba adopted "Olorun" as the Yoruba translation of the Jewish god during the Crowder's translation.
So, let's take the Fathers name as the Father and the supreme god and Jesus as the son of the supreme god.
Let's just leave the concept of Jehovah for the Father and all that. Cos that will bring a question of is "El" then the Father of Yahweh (Jehovah? Those specific names complicate history and I do my best just to stay away.

If that's your own opinion fine but that's the name uniting millions throughout the world as peace loving worshipers so there is no need disputing over what is YIELDING POSITIVE RESULTS!

MaxInDHouse:
If that's your own opinion fine but that's the name uniting millions throughout the world as peace loving worshipers so there is no need disputing over what is YIELDING POSITIVE RESULTS!

Sir. I am not against that. I called my God "Jehovah" too. I am only saying the difference between the Father and the son has nothing to do with the name.
It is a FACT that The Father is Greater and Superior to The Son.
I am only saying, since a lot have agreed to the above, let's not complicate it with the name again.
Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
That's how many rejected Jesus so it's not new!

Smile. I belyyou already gotten my analogy.

Thanks sir.

immaculatesense:
Sir. I am not against that. I called my God "Jehovah" too. I am only saying the difference between the Father and the son has nothing to do with the name.
It is a FACT that The Father is Greater and Superior to The Son.
I am only saying, since a lot have agreed to the above, let's not complicate it with the name again. Thanks.

Complications results from choice when all of us need to figure out the group God is using to dispense spiritual food.

We Jehovah's Witnesses believe our God is using only the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses so whoever disagree with that can't possibly be a worshiper of our God! Matthew 24:45

immaculatesense:
Smile. I belyyou already gotten my analogy. Thanks sir.

We are not scared to be different! Matthew 10:24-28

MaxInDHouse:
We are not scared to be different! Matthew 10:24-28

You are correct sir. But same Jesus said in
Mark 9:38-40
[38]John said to Jesus, “Teacher, we saw someone using your name to cast out demons, but we told him to stop because he wasn’t in our group.”
[39]“Don’t stop him!” Jesus said. “No one who performs a miracle in my name will soon be able to speak evil of me.
[40]Anyone who is not against us is for us.

Whoever it is that believe that there is a maker of the universe who will judge his work whether good or bad and lived a good life towards his neighbors. Whether or not they are In my group, it doesn't matter, I love them as I would a brother.
Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
Complications results from choice when all of us need to figure out the group God is using to dispense spiritual food.

We Jehovah's Witnesses believe our God is using only the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses so whoever disagree with that can't possibly be a worshiper of our God! Matthew 24:45

What if the person does not disagree but at the same time he is not just a member of your group. Is the person also lost because he is not in your group? He is not JW?
Please, don't tell me yes, please.

immaculatesense:
You are correct sir. But same Jesus said in
Mark 9:38-40
[38]John said to Jesus, “Teacher, we saw someone using your name to cast out demons, but we told him to stop because he wasn’t in our group.”
[39]“Don’t stop him!” Jesus said. “No one who performs a miracle in my name will soon be able to speak evil of me.
[40]Anyone who is not against us is for us.

Whoever it is that believe that there is a maker of the universe who will just his work whether good or bad and lived a good life towards his neighbors. Whether or not they are In my group, it doesn't matter, I love them as I would a brother.
Thanks.

You missed the mark!

That person is facing a community where anyone who profess to believe in Jesus will be castigated so he is already one of Jesus' group but the Apostles thought since he is not with them bodily he can't be a disciple.
That totally differs from what is happening today, different religions claiming Christians yet participating in politics and wars are no part of disciples of the Prince of Peace!

MaxInDHouse:
You missed the mark!

That person is facing a community where anyone who profess to believe in Jesus will be castigated so he is already one of Jesus' group but the Apostles thought since he is not with them bodily he can't be a disciple.
That totally differs from what is happening today, different religions claiming Christians yet participating in politics and wars are no part of disciples of the Prince of Peace!

Max. When the righteous rule, the people rejoice but when the wicked rules the people groan.
Who are the righteous?
Why do you think believers should back out of politics?

immaculatesense:
Max. When the righteous rule, the people rejoice but when the wicked rules the people groan.
Who are the righteous?
Why do you think believers should back out of politics?

Go and ask your JW friends since you're saying they don't see anything evil in the things you do i'm sure they will explain more to you while sitting face to face with them.

One thing i can tell you is that it's a crime against God and humanity to back any human ruler after John the baptist and Jesus of Nazareth has declared saying:

"The Kingdom of heaven is at hand" Matthew 3:2; 4:17

MaxInDHouse:
Go and ask your JW friends since you're saying they don't see anything evil in the things you do i'm sure they will explain more to you while sitting face to face with them.

One thing i can tell you is that it's a crime against God and humanity to back any human ruler after John the baptist and Jesus of Nazareth has declared saying:

"The Kingdom of heaven is at hand" Matthew 3:2; 4:17

Smile. I have had such discussions with them and we have reasoned brother.
I do not think based on your point sir, that we should work for that same government and collect salary from them. Because one of these my friends is a seasoned doctor in the Federal Medical Center here in my state and the Federal government pays him monthly. His wife whom I am also very close to is a seasoned electrical engineer in this same medical center under the pay of the federal government.

WHAT SAY YOU SIR.
WE CANT VOTE THEM BUT WE CAN WORK FOR THEM AND COLLECT OUR EARNINGS FROM THEM?
Which of the disciples worked for the government or herods or pilates or Caesars or make their living by working in their government or regime.

Brother, look at things from different lenses and your knowledge of the scriptures will benefit more lives because I know your intentions are pure.
Thanks.

tctrills:
Again i have provided answers in my first post but more thoughts.

You might wonder, that if the Father has given all power to the Son, how is the Father then glorified?

The answer is in
John 14:13-14

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

The Father is glorified in the Son.
Now, as humans we understand this. Nothing makes a parent more happy than the success of their Children. Parents don't get envious of their kids Success.

Our Father in heaven is not envious of Jesus Christ.
He commanded us to be perfect just like he is. He wants all of us to be like him and will do all it takes to help us reach our God potential.

And he wants us to be one with him just as his son is one with him.

Everything I have written is scriptural so why do you doubt?

Doesn't change the fact that
Jehovah is greater than Jesus and only Jehovah is the one God theres.

cornelboy:
Doesn't change the fact that
Jehovah is greater than Jesus and only Jehovah is the one God theres.

Is easy to say whatever but so far, I have shown you the truth using the bible you believe in.
Everything i have presented is the pure word of God.
Is Jesus Christ greater than his Father? No
Does his authority and power come from his Father? Yes
Did the Father give him all things including all power and titles? Yes.
Then what really is your argument sir.

tctrills:
What you wrote is super correct and it's not in argument. So we both agree that Jesus Christ was given all power and authority right? and he shares all the titles of the Father.
Now, you say that Jesus Christ is to fulfill specific purpose and that my be true but then, he was given all things, all authority. He was not given some specific authority or some specific powers. So why do you have a problem accepting this scriptural truth.
It was never up to you to pick and choose which authority Jesus Christ has. His Father gave him everything so why would you be the one to decide which of his Father's titles he is worthy of?
Or do you have any scriptural evidence to support your claims? You don't. Then why not you just believe the Word of God?

Let me share a verse with you, I hope this will open your eyes to Gods plan for his children.

Revelation 3:12 – "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."

Here, those that overcome will bear the name of God. Think about this for a minute.
Remember we read in John 17 Jesus Christ prayed that those who believe in him become one with him and the Father?
Now you are beginning to see that it means a lot more than husband and wife relationship.

If we may one day bear the name of God, why are you shocked that his Christ is bearing all his titles?

Jesus doesn't have same power with Jehovah, he's not in the same position with Jehovah, and not equal with Jehovah, everything he has if from Father and it can be taken back anytime

Jehovah still remain the most powerful and highest position in heaven. The Almighty

tctrills:
Is easy to say whatever but so far, I have shown you the truth using the bible you believe in.
Everything i have presented is the pure word of God.
Is Jesus Christ greater than his Father? No
Does his authority and power come from his Father? Yes
Did the Father give him all things including all power and titles? Yes.
Then what really is your argument sir.

I can ask you same question what is your argument

Jumping from pillar to post lol

tctrills:
No I never said they are the same person.
I only showed you how 2 people can have the very same Title or position and yet it is seen as one.
Example,
Isaiah says we have only one Savior right?
Now I ask, who is the Savoir Jesus Christ or his Father or both?

Who's the Saviour?

cornelboy:
Jesus doesn't have same power with Jehovah, he's not in the same position with Jehovah, and not equal with Jehovah, everything he has if from Father and it can be taken back anytime

Jehovah still remain the most powerful and highest position in heaven. The Almighty

Sir, you can have your opinion but so far, I have shown you that your opinion does not align with the word of God.
So you either Keep your opinion and receive God's word or go against his word now you have been told.
Point out which of my statements are not supported by the bible you use?

cornelboy:
Who's the Saviour?

Why are you taking us back? We have discussed this already.
Let's do a refresher course.
Old testament
Isaiah 43:11 – "I, even I, am the Lord, and beside me there is no savior."

God declares that He alone is the Savior.
Hosea 13:4 – "Yet I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no savior beside me.

New testament
Titus 2:13-14 – "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works

Jude 1:25 – "To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen

tctrills:
Why are you taking us back? We have discussed this already.
Let's do a refresher course.
Old testament
Isaiah 43:11 – "I, even I, am the Lord, and beside me there is no savior."

God declares that He alone is the Savior.
Hosea 13:4 – "Yet I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no savior beside me.

New testament
Titus 2:13-14 – "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works

Jude 1:25 – "To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen

Who's the Saviour?

cornelboy:
I can ask you same question what is your argument

Jumping from pillar to post lol

Me and you know that you fully understand my argument

But if you have a specific question about anything I have said, ask and I will answer?

tctrills:
Sir, you can have your opinion but so far, I have shown you that your opinion does not align with the word of God.
So you either Keep your opinion and receive God's word or go against his word now you have been told.
Point out which of my statements are not supported by the bible you use?

I don't have that time

Point out which of my statement is not supported by the bible you use? Waiting

tctrills:
Me and you know that you fully understand my argument

But if you have a specific question about anything I have said, ask and I will answer?

Me I don't understand

Oh that Jesus is same person as jehovah?

cornelboy:
Me I don't understand

Oh that Jesus is same person as jehovah?

I didn't even make that argument in this thread.
I simply went down to your level using your own beliefs and your Bible to teach you.
So for the sake of understanding, let Jesus Christ and Jehovah be different people ok. Jehovah being the God of Israel in the old testament and Jesus Christ, the one we know in the new testament.
So you can't claim you don't understand when I am even using the premise of your believes

tctrills:
I didn't even make that argument in this thread.
I simply went down to your level using your own beliefs and your Bible to teach you.
So for the sake of understanding, let Jesus Christ and Jehovah be different people ok. Jehovah being the God of Israel in the old testament and Jesus Christ, the one we know in the new testament.
So you can't claim you don't understand when I am even using the premise of your believes

Jesus Christ is not like any other God, he is the one true God like his Father.

He is the Jehovah of the old testament. David called him his Lord. The men of old had a relationship with him.
He was the God that led the children of Israel across the Red Sea.
And he is the one that has asked us to be his witnesses.

Jesus Christ was sent by jehovah. No disturb me abeg

Jehovah remain the same person

When Jesus resurrected he went back to his God

Jesus is not jehovah

cornelboy:
Jesus Christ was sent by jehovah. No disturb me abeg

Jehovah remain the same person

When Jesus resurrected he went back to his God

Jesus is not jehovah

Ad I stayed early, I never made the argument that Jesus Christ is Jehovah in this thread.
Debate against the things I wrote in this thread.
I have made your work simple enough by begining where you are(that Jesus Christ and Jehovah are not the same person)

tctrills:
Ad I stayed early, I never made the argument that Jesus Christ is Jehovah in this thread.
Debate against the things I wrote in this thread.
I have made your work simple enough by begining where you are(that Jesus Christ and Jehovah are not the same person)

Jesus Christ is not like any other God, he is the one true God like his Father.
He is the Jehovah of the old testament. David called him his Lord. The men of old had a relationship with him.
He was the God that led the children of Israel across the Red Sea.
And he is the one that has asked us to be his witnesses.

Those are you words man

So was Jehovah the one that led the children of Israel or wad it Jesus?

Who's the Saviour?

cornelboy:
Those are you words man

So was Jehovah the one that led the children of Israel or wad it Jesus?

Who's the Saviour?

Yes, they are questions.

You are right but I feel that's beginning from the end.
It will be very hard for you to accept that Jesus Christ is Jehovah so let's start from what you know.

Let's start with the statement that Jesus Christ is not Jehovah ok. Let Jehovah be his Father.
I guess that should make you more comfortable.

tctrills:
Yes, they are questions.

You are right but I feel that's beginning from the end.
It will be very hard for you to accept that Jesus Christ is Jehovah so let's start from what you know.

Let's start with the statement that Jesus Christ is not Jehovah ok. Let Jehovah be his Father.
I guess that should make you more comfortable.

Keep what you know to yourself

I'm not interested
To me Jesus and Jehovah are two distinct persons.

immaculatesense:
Smile. I have had such discussions with them and we have reasoned brother.
I do not think based on your point sir, that we should work for that same government and collect salary from them. Because one of these my friends is a seasoned doctor in the Federal Medical Center here in my state and the Federal government pays him monthly. His wife whom I am also very close to is a seasoned electrical engineer in this same medical center under the pay of the federal government.

WHAT SAY YOU SIR.
WE CANT VOTE THEM BUT WE CAN WORK FOR THEM AND COLLECT OUR EARNINGS FROM THEM?
Which of the disciples worked for the government or herods or pilates or Caesars or make their living by working in their government or regime.

Brother, look at things from different lenses and your knowledge of the scriptures will benefit more lives because I know your intentions are pure.
Thanks.

Ask them why they don't vote first!