₦airaland Forum

gohf:
Simple, those born of women are carnally born
While those in the kingdom of God are all born of the Spirit.

But we can also dig deeper into what Jesus was actually teaching in Matthew 11 that brought about that statement in verse 11 😃

Please can you mention one person who was born of spirit before John the baptist?

MaxInDHouse:
Please can you mention one person who was born of spirit before John the baptist?

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All old testament prophet who testified or prophesied of Christ did that through the Spirit of CHRIST
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That what the scriptures makes me understand. And Peter Said same thing

@ gohf

MaxInDHouse:
Please can you mention one person who was born of spirit before John the baptist?

StillDtruth:
"does Against God's will also mean sin?" Yes

God's Will is expressed via His Laws. So when you see God's Law or Command, you see His Will.

Secondly, the Laws in Leviticus 18 are the Laws of sexual abominations which people do, even today.

So they are only pointing out the sexual abominations a person must not do.

But if you want to see the laws barring polygamy they are contained in several parts of the Bible which I dropped in the threads I showed you. Eg Deuteronomy 17:17 do not multiply wives.

https://www.nairaland.com/8032594/deuteronomy-17-17-shows-god#128966884

Every argument that people like you could make was done there and in the end they did not stand because I showed them the Laws they must break to do polygamy.

Ezra 10:3
[3] Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to
put away all the wives, and such as are born of them (exactly what Abraham did when he made the mistake of taking wives after Sarah's death,) according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law.

🤣🤣🤣🤣 How long did it take you to google out deut. 17:17 you should have ACTUALLY READ the chapter 🤣. Okay only that verse says that the purpose the king should not many so many wives is so that they don't turn his heart away from God.

Infact that's the same reason they were not to marry foreign women. Which by the way Moses married and that was the issue that got Mariam a leper for a week. Anyway. Those who trule know scripture know that Ezra misinterpreted the scripture and misunderstood what God told Jeremiah and took a wrong action in that regard, but neither the less, they didn't divorce their extra wives but their pagan wives.

MaxInDHouse:
@ gohf

have you ever seen anyone born of the spirit 😳😑

FreeSpirited:
All old testament prophet who testified or prophesied of Christ did that through the Spirit of CHRIST
That what the scriptures makes me understand. And Peter Said same thing

Are you saying all prophets who testified or prophesied of Christ were born of the spirit?
If so how come John who prepared the way and also prophesied and testified about Christ is not qualified to be one of them?

FreeSpirited:
1. Everything here is ur own subjective misinterpretation with no authority...imagine using AI to make conclusion....Oga rest..I won't attack all erroneous conclusion cos it's too many

This is what people start saying when they see that can not counter.

For all these while when we were arguing did you not know it is was my own interpretation?

When you started the thread were you not giving it your own subjective interpretation?

So now that you know that you have no reasonable answer, is now that you are claiming subjective interpretation as an excuse.

Sorry, you have no case for you have only experienced what is written in my signature which is that "THERE IS NO VALID ARGUMENT AGAINST THE TRUTH'

So, if you want to marry many wives just go ahead and do it as pagans do but don't call God and the Bible in it.

FreeSpirited:
2You clearly don't even understand the history and context of Ezra and Nehemiah period.... obviously.

Is this the topic? No.

Therefore this is off point. And if indeed it was relevant you would have given us the relevant summary of the history. But, you yourself know that it was not, so you are just annoyed that you do not have any valid argument to make in furtherance of your desire to commit a prohibited sin

.

FreeSpirited:
3. U could not even understand Leviticus 18 that is so straightforward and how u make it a matter that sanctions ONLY ONE WIFE needs to be studied in Harvard and Oxford.

I have pointed out that Leviticus 18 is clearly focusing on all the pagan abominations and so it was not covering your plan of stealing or marriage, or do you want to Lie and say that the Laws against Stealing and marriages are also in the Leviticus 18?

FreeSpirited:
4. You clearly don't even know why God warn Isrealites from marrying strange woman.

Is this the topic? No.

So off point!

FreeSpirited:
But we all know Moses also married a strange woman! The Ethiopian woman was a strange woman yet God dint judge Moses for it, God even fought Mariam and punish elders that complained about it....Why did u think God wasn't bothered by the Ethiopian woman Moses married?

I already answered this in the thread which you saw and could not counter so you changed post and moved to raise Abraham's and others.

So, you have nothing here.

Thus, this is all you, looking for how to commit adultery and escaping God's Punishment. THERE IS NO WAY!

But as Revelation Said if you want to sin, sin on but it is more worse for you to bring God into your sins

FreeSpirited:
In Ezra period there was widespread idolatory and immorality....

This was a trap I laid.

You obviously did not know that in the bible fornication and adulteries are also called 'idolatry".

Desiring God
https://www.desiringgod.org
What Is Idolatry?
19 Aug 2014 — It is the thing loved or the person loved more than God, wanted more than God, desired more than God

Bible.org Blogs
https://blogs.bible.org
Adultery and Idolatry
29 Dec 2012 — It is common in scripture to equate adultery with idolatry.

GotQuestions.org
https://www.gotquestions.org
What is spiritual adultery?
4 Jan 2022 — Spiritual adultery includes any form of idolatry

GotQuestions.org
https://www.gotquestions.org
What does the Bible say about fornication?
5 Dec 2022 — Fornication is also applied symbolically in the Bible to the sins of idolatry.

So you see God don already over catch you even before you bin dey plan all these plans. And you no fit escape.

So just know that God don already catch you!!!

gohf:
have you ever seen anyone born of the spirit 😳😑

Please answer the question after all i've been answering yours!

MaxInDHouse:
Are you saying all prophets who testified or prophesied of Christ were born to the spirit?
If so how come John who prepared the way and also prophesied and testified about Christ is not qualified to be one of them?

John the Baptist will make heaven for sure......that's why Christ Gave us his rank in the kingdom
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My Bible also makes me know Daniel will make heaven, so I don't know what u mean by born of spirit with relation to holy prophet of old testament.

Dan.12.13 - "As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance."

Dan.12.13 - But you [Daniel, who was now over ninety years of age], go your way until the end; for you shall rest and shall stand [fast] in your allotted place at the end of the days.

MaxInDHouse:
All you need is a Bible study!

What God instituted is a man and a woman it's after man's fall that people began doing what they want and God allowed them to learn the hard way from experience.
Well throughout the scriptures there is no peaceful polygamous home it has always been trouble here and there you too can try to mention one polygamist in the Bible who never had troubles due to polygamy.
So when Jesus was talking about a haven where there will no sorrow, no tears, no pain, no enmity he told us that marriage in Paradise we must return to the divine arrangement which is one man one woman.
I know people like you will keep on asking for written code instead of doing what you know (in your heart) is good for everyone but learn today that in the New Covenant Christ wrote his laws in our hearts! Jeremiah 31:31-33

Would you like your dad to marry a second wife in addition to your mum?

Would you like your daughter to marry a polygamist?

Would you like your sister to marry a polygamist?

Of course the simple answer to all these is capital NO!

So if you want what is good for you and members of your own family why would you anticipate something else for others? Matthew 7:12

So was sex before the fall or after the fall? 😏 As a student of the bible you are, this should be easy to answer abi 😁
By the way you assumed all polygamy homes in scripture were not peaceful so were all the monogamy homes peaceful?

Tell us why Cain killed Abel, or why Esau and Jacob had issues, or care to explain the peace you mean and share examples of such mono-homes 🙏

You quoted Jeremiah where God promised to write the law in our hearts, so tell us what are the laws God writes in our hearts😊.... Surely it is not the laws of Moses 👀

Well i hate blind arguments.

John is not yet qualified for everlasting life not until he practice what Jesus taught and that affects all those who lived before him! Matthew 11:12

So they will be resurrected on planet earth to learn from Christians who aren't part of Christ's corulers before they can qualify for everlasting life it's whatever each of them decides to do after learning about Christ that will be the basis for their judgment whether they will be counted worthy of everlasting life or not! Revelations 20:11-13

MaxInDHouse:
All you need is a Bible study!

What God instituted is a man and a woman it's after man's fall that people began doing what they want and God allowed them to learn the hard way from experience.
Well throughout the scriptures there is no peaceful polygamous home it has always been trouble here and there you too can try to mention one polygamist in the Bible who never had troubles due to polygamy.
So when Jesus was talking about a haven where there will no sorrow, no tears, no pain, no enmity he told us that marriage in Paradise we must return to the divine arrangement which is one man one woman.
I know people like you will keep on asking for written code instead of doing what you know (in your heart) is good for everyone but learn today that in the New Covenant Christ wrote his laws in our hearts! Jeremiah 31:31-33

Would you like your dad to marry a second wife in addition to your mum?

Would you like your daughter to marry a polygamist?

Would you like your sister to marry a polygamist?

Of course the simple answer to all these is capital NO!

So if you want what is good for you and members of your own family why would you anticipate something else for others? Matthew 7:12

lol 🤣🤣 you want to use emotions after writing "you need to study your bible"

Just say it is what you want and not what God commanded that you are preaching as God's word. And while you assume God's word it's up to God to handle you, don't assume my own answer o. MY ANSWER IS YES, so rest, and stop assuming no one else reads the bible 😗🤭

FreeSpirited:
I don't know what u mean by born of spirit with relation to holy prophet of old testament.

It's not my statement rather it's Jesus' own words! Matthew 11:11-12

So if you don't know it's OK!

MaxInDHouse:
Well i hate blind arguments.

John is not yet qualified for everlasting life not until he practice what Jesus taught and that affects all those who lived before him! Matthew 11:12

So they will be resurrected on planet earth to learn from Christians who aren't part of Christ's corulers before they can qualify for everlasting life it's whatever each of them decides to do after learning about Christ that will be the basis for their judgment whether they will be counted worthy of everlasting life or not! Revelations 20:11-13

ah you hate the wrong thing, you should first hate been blind maybe then you will see the truth and stop twisting what is written. 😗🤭

StillDtruth:
This is what people start saying when they see that can not counter.

For all these while when we were arguing did you not know it is was my own interpretation?

When you started the thread were you not giving it your own subjective interpretation?

So now that you know that you have no reasonable answer, is now that you are claiming subjective interpretation as an excuse.

Sorry, you have no case for you have only experienced what is written in my signature which is that "THERE IS NO VALID ARGUMENT AGAINST THE TRUTH'

So, if you want to marry many wives just go ahead and do it as pagans do but don't call God and the Bible in it.



Is this the topic? No.

Therefore this is off point. And if indeed it was relevant you would have given us the relevant summary of the history. But, you yourself know that it was not, so you are just annoyed that you do not have any valid argument to make in furtherance of your desire to commit a prohibited sin

.

I have pointed out that Leviticus 18 is clearly focusing on all the pagan abominations and so it was not covering your plan of stealing or marriage, or do you want to Lie and say that the Laws against Stealing and marriages are also in the Leviticus 18?



Is this the topic? No.

So off point!



I already answered this in the thread which you saw and could not counter so you changed post and moved to raise Abraham's and others.

So, you have nothing here.

Thus, this is all you, looking for how to commit adultery and escaping God's Punishment. THERE IS NO WAY!

But as Revelation Said if you want to sin, sin on but it is more worse for you to bring God into your sins




This was a trap I laid.

You obviously did not know that in the bible fornication and adulteries are also called 'idolatry".

Desiring God
https://www.desiringgod.org
What Is Idolatry?
19 Aug 2014 — It is the thing loved or the person loved more than God, wanted more than God, desired more than God

Bible.org Blogs
https://blogs.bible.org
Adultery and Idolatry
29 Dec 2012 — It is common in scripture to equate adultery with idolatry.

GotQuestions.org
https://www.gotquestions.org
What is spiritual adultery?
4 Jan 2022 — Spiritual adultery includes any form of idolatry

GotQuestions.org
https://www.gotquestions.org
What does the Bible say about fornication?
5 Dec 2022 — Fornication is also applied symbolically in the Bible to the sins of idolatry.

So you see God don already over catch you even before you bin dey plan all these plans. And you no fit escape.

So just know that God don already catch you!!!

Those sites u are quoting aren't sites written by alien, they are works of people like you and me, it changes nothing.
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Imagine saying I don't know Bible uses fornication as idolatory......I know I've read Revelation and cases of Oholia and Oholibah in the book of either Isaiah or Jeremiah, I dont have time to confirm....but in those case we will all understand the symbolism and it is most time interpreted.
In the case of Ezra, like I was saying, u don't even understand the historical context of the Period of Ezra..cos if u do, u won't even say the idolatory there is symbolism ....lol

In Leviticus 18 v 8 God said don't sleep with ur papa wife....simple means that paraventure if ur papa has another wife don't sleep with her..... meaning it's not a sin if ur father sleep with that second wife, cos she's a legal wife, but it's a sin for u to go and sleep with ur step mom.....so what other interpretation are u implying....abi ur brain is upside down? Lol

FreeSpirited:
All these ones na self righteouness and story from ur mind......
For this reason a man will cleave with his wife and they will be one was not a saying by Christ
.
It was GOD who instituted that saying......and after that, most men of God who worked with him were never deemed by God to have broken that saying for marrying 2 to 4 wives in the scriptures........And in hundreds of laws given to Moses, never did God for once says 2 wives contradict that saying.....why would u think Jesus would contradict it and make 2 wives Adultery? Jesus never brought any new law, Jesus only judged the intention and motive of men in their observance and judgement of the law. Obviously for the adulterous woman caught, Jesus judged the motive and intent of those Pharisees.....to realize they were also guilty of same sin they wanted to kill the woman for........so that's injustice according to CHRIST.
Oga u people are just self righteous and cherry picking the scriptures
One wife is perfect....but two or 3 wives was never a sin or Adultery...and theres a way u can marry second wife without ur adultery claims.....

you eh, the moment some started preaching against God's word and started preaching equality in marriage, even been married to one unsubmissive and rebellious wife became an issue. Before they would be humble to win their husband's favor but some who are unwise like proverbs said, who pull down their homes and make the saying, it is better to leave in the attic than in a mansion with one quarrelsom wife.

Wait, 🤔 did proverbs advice against marry more than one wife or against marrying one "bad" wife. 😁😁

MaxInDHouse:
It's not my statement rather it's Jesus' own words! Matthew 11:11-12

So if you don't know it's OK!

U obviously think u understand scriptures more scripturally well read than some of us cos u read Jw publications ND attend their programmed meetings..smh....I can tell u I have read from beginning to the end most popular JW books...from cover to cover...and I know the history of the founder of JW , and history of watchtowers most of u guys won't like the public to know .....
So spare me that condescending tone of "if I don't know"
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.was born of the spirit statement a statement inclusive of Old testament prophets ? Of course they aren't part....only for believers ......But hopefully u will twist that again

gohf:
MY ANSWER IS YES.

Are you saying YES to the question the OP raised?
Meanwhile instead of waiting for what i will say why not address the question you were asked?

Mention one person who was born of spirit before John the baptist?

gohf:
you eh, the moment some started preaching against God's word and started preaching equality in marriage, even been married to one unsubmissive and rebellious wife became an issue. Before they would be humble to win their husband's favor but some who are unwise like proverbs said, who pull down their homes and make the saying, it is better to leave in the attic than in a mansion with one quarrelsom wife.

Wait, 🤔 did proverbs advice against marry more than one wife or against marrying one "bad" wife. 😁😁

Lol....I think our friends up there can answer that question better than the writer of Proverbs and all the patriarchs put together

FreeSpirited:
was born of the spirit statement a statement inclusive of Old testament prophets ? Of course they aren't part....only for believers ......But hopefully u will twist that again

OK so nobody before John the baptist is yet qualified for God's Kingdom, right?

MaxInDHouse:
This is what God told the Israelites about Christ:

I will raise up for them from the midst of their brothers a prophet like you, and I will put my words in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him. Indeed, I will require an account from the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name. Deuteronomy 18:18-19

God told His people that someone will later come to TEACH them in His name but the Jews rejected Jesus, do you know why?

Well it's because he said so many things that totally contradicts what they knew before as RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Peter confirmed that Jesus of Nazareth is that promised prophet who is coming to teach them how to get to Paradise {Act 3:22} that's why the Christian congregation will not appoint any polygamist to lead or teach in Christianity:

The overseer should therefore be irreprehensible, a husband of one wife, moderate in habits, sound in mind, orderly, hospitable, qualified to teach. 1Timothy 3:2

If there is any man free from accusation, a husband of one wife, having believing children who are not accused of debauchery or rebelliousness. Titus 1:6

I wouldn't have engage you if you aren't appealing to CHRISTIANS!

now is every believer supposed to be an overseer?

And when did Paul become the "prophet" or is Paul Jesus Christ now?

That reminds me does jw even have "an overseer or a G.O"?

Why scared to answer the simple questions nah?

MaxInDHouse:
OK so nobody before John the baptist is yet qualified for God's Kingdom, right?

Was that what Jesus meant that nobody qualified for God's kingdom.....is that also what u believe that except people like you and ur sect, then nobody is qualified to enter heaven in old testament? Jesus never meant so..okay?
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As a matter of fact when Jesus died/resurrected, many saints who died also resurrected with him..as written in the gospel
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And Daniel was deem worthy to enter heaven in last verse of book of Daniels....so what's ur point

gohf:
now is every believer supposed to be an overseer?
And when did Paul become the "prophet" or is Paul Jesus Christ now?
That reminds me does jw even have "an overseer or a G.O"?

Stop quoting previous comments that is of no relevance to the present situation.

Here is the question don't run/shy away:

MaxInDHouse:
Mention one person who was born of spirit before John the baptist?

FreeSpirited:
Firstly u hve misinterpreted Deuteronomy 18 v 18.....Just as u always do with other scriptures to fit into ur own model of self righteouness.......I won't comment on that but...
Secondly: Oga, thank you for going this path of Titus 1:6....I've been waiting for you to quote that scripture that says ...."must be husband of one wife"..
.
Now what that scripture is saying is directed solely to over seers and shepherd of a church which is understandable......cos more than one wife can present issues at home and distraction for the shepherd whose sole aim is to feed the flock...Does this admonition by Titus mean two wives is a sin? NO! DOES this admonition also mean there are no men with multiple wives in the congregation? No, that admonition actually mean as a matter of fact that some brethren in the church had two wives...which disqualifies them for that leadership post because of it's demand not because of it being sinful..... otherwise Titus would have said brethren with two wives are hell bound and must repent from their sin.....

Also because of God's work....Paul once says he would even prefer we don't even Marry at all.....he once said a married man would worry more about family than God.....So it's therefore clear as to why sheperd should have one wife or even none like Paul.......these admonition is never about a man of two wives being a sinner......... otherwise, those holy apostle would have said it..... which is obvious when Paul was disgusted that men slept with their father's wife and not disgusted that such man had a second wife the way u guys are now disgusted....,,I wonder why u guys now inventing what was never written in the scriptures
.

This is the scriptures I will like u to consider written by Paul is

1Cor.5.1 - I also received a report of scandalous sex within your church family, a kind that wouldn't be tolerated even outside the church: One of YOUR MEN SLEEPING WITH HIS STEP MOTHER....MSB

1Cor.5.1 - It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife.......NIV

1Cor.5.1 - It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.......KJV

I used 3 translations so that we can all understand the context: which clearly means that certain brother was was having affair with his Father's wife or step mother. Of course Paul never was concerned about why a man would have two wives in this context, but he was clearly bitter as to why a brethren would sleep with his step mom, which clearly contradict Leviticus 18 v 8 which says- "Don't have sex with your father's wife. That violates your father"......MSB
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Obviously u guys know more than paul

infact I feel that for Paul to specifically mention must be husband of one wife, it meant there were many believers who had multiple wives.

Well Paul is one to say don't marry so you can focus on ministry and sees marriage can be a distraction, that's why most of what he writes concerning marriage is usually from the scripture (OT) interpretation and Jewish practice

MaxInDHouse:
Stop quoting previous comments that is of no relevance to the present situation.

Here is the question don't run/shy away:

I believe I answered that question, besides you have absolutely no right to tell me not to enjoy reading previous comment. 😑😑 Well you can tell me to stop like you did but I can also ignore you 😁😁😁

FreeSpirited:
Was that what Jesus meant that nobody qualified for God's kingdom.....is that also what u believe that except people like you and ur sect, then nobody is qualified to enter heaven in old testament? Jesus never meant so..okay?
As a matter of fact when Jesus resurrected, many who died also resurrected with him..as written in the gospel
And Daniel was deem worthy to enter heaven in last verse of book of Daniels....so what's ur point

Jesus said:

Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is. Matthew 11:11

So the question is are people before John the baptist qualified for God's Kingdom since Jesus said the least person in there is greater than John?

It's just a YES or NO response then you can explain later!

gohf:
infact I feel that for Paul to specifically mention must be husband of one wife, it meant there were many believers who had multiple wives.

Well Paul is one to say don't marry so you can focus on ministry and sees marriage can be a distraction, that's why most of what he writes concerning marriage is usually from the scripture (OT) interpretation and Jewish practice

It's as clear as day
I dint have to read any publication or listen to any pastor to come to this understanding
It was while reading scriptures by myself that I began to connect the dots myself
But these JW guys can never think beyond what is printed in their publication....they just regurgitate the conclusion of certain Bible scholars who put together the publication on any topic....some times they are right...many times their conclusion is wrong........

gohf:
I believe I answered that question, besides you have absolutely no right to tell me not to enjoy reading previous comment. 😑😑 Well you can tell me to stop like you did but I can also ignore you 😁😁😁

It's obvious you don't know the answer to this question:

Mention one person who was born of spirit before John the baptist?

So i will take my leave!

MaxInDHouse:
To judge?

Please nobody is judging anybody here!

You asked for a Christian view regarding polygamy and i showed you what early Christians practiced in view of Paradise in their hearts.

So this is not about judging because they didn't judge anyone who is already married into polygamous family all they did is to deprive such ones from holding a position in the Christian congregation which no sane individual will like to thread such path after seeing what the Apostles are doing to polygamists.

Please make use of what they practiced back then and decide for yourself what you will do. Galatians 6:5

"what the apostles are doing to polygamists"

Look, you do not judge but I judge you who claim to be in the house of God, the body of Christ for adding laws and commands to God's word, for calling a sin that which God did not call a sin. Yes I judge you with the same standard that I will be judged with. If you claimed to be ignorant and of the world that would he different.

I may laugh but now I am serious. You all have no fear for God but value your own opinions and traditions above God.

MaxInDHouse:
It's obvious you don't know the answer to this question:

Mention one person who was born of spirit before John the baptist?

So i will take my leave!

did I answer you or not, yes or no?

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus said:

Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is. Matthew 11:11

So the question is are people before John the baptist qualified for God's Kingdom since Jesus said the least person in there is greater than John?

It's just a YES or NO response then you can explain later!

From everything I have said about this question... isn't it obvious my stance/position?... isn't it. Please read and comprehend. Cos I already answer it clearly with explanation. So I won't go over it again cos both of us are not babies....