₦airaland Forum

mushroomFarm:
They do, they just dont do it openly like us. They keep it between themselves and their God instead of bothering the world with it like we do.

beardedboy:
1. The problem with you is you like God to man. Unlike humans, His power and knowledge are absolute and omnipresent so His physical presence adds nothing to His power and greatness. Afterall, we humans need to be physically present because our knowledge and authority are limited by our physical presence or absence.

beardedboy:
2. As a Muslim, we don't believe Moses or Abraham or Isaac saw God. They only communicated with Him. Even Moses, who spoke directly to God only saw His Light, not His actual essence.

beardedboy:
3. If you think well, you'll see that your claim and understanding of God revealing Himself to those prophet's actually negate your claim of God's physical omnipresence. If He is fully present in one location, then He is not fully present elsewhere. That would limit Him, which contradicts the concept of an infinite God.

beardedboy:
4. If your God is omnipresent, then he's also in cow dung, and pig butt? If He is truly everywhere in a literal sense, then He must be in the lowest and most impure places too. This logic goes against the very concept of divine majesty.

beardedboy:
5. You never answered any of my questions. You only did mental gymnastics that every sensible person knows lacks substance.

SIRTee15:
First and foremost, let's clarify. when we say God is omnipresent, what we are saying is the presence of God is every where.

The omnipresence essence of God is the very reason God created man in the first place. God created Man to have a direct relationship with him. That will not be possible if He's not omnipresent. Right from the garden of Eden, God was seen having 1-1 fellowship with humanity.
That's the core of the biblical theology which is oblivious in Islam.
God himself told the Patriarch He shall be with them and also revealed this thru the prophets.

Genesis 26:24
The Lord appeared to him the same night and said, “I am the God of your father Abraham; Do not fear, for I am with you. I will bless you, and multiply your descendants, For the sake of My servant Abraham.”

Haggai 2:4
But now take courage, Zerubbabel,’ declares the Lord, ‘take courage also, Joshua son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and all you people of the land take courage,’ declares the Lord, ‘and work; for I am with you,’ declares the Lord of hosts.

The Lord's presence also descended upon the tabernacle and was physically present felt by the Israelites.

Exodus 40
34 Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle. 35 Moses could not enter the tent of meeting, because the cloud settled down upon it and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.



well, evidence in the Torah refute this. Moses physically saw God. Not only Moses, but the 70 elders of Israel. They saw God on Mount Sinai.

Exodus 24
9[b] Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up 10 and saw the God of Israel.[/b] Under his feet was something like a pavement made of lapis lazuli, as bright blue as the sky. 11 But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.

Now I know u will say these verses are corrupt or whatever which I can easily refute with your own Islamic faith. But what I want u to ask yourself is why would the ancient Jews who wrote the Torah make up such stories. If God is not omnipresent, why would they write such. What exactly do they want to achieve by claiming God is omnipresent when he's not.

Here is what David and Jeremiah has to say about God's omnipresence.

Psalm 139:7-10
Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?
If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.

Jeremiah 23:24
“Can a man hide himself in hiding places, So I do not see him?” declares the Lord.
“Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?” declares the Lord.

2 prophets of God who lived more than 500 years apart both confirmed the omnipresence essence of God. If God didn't reveal this to them, why would they conjure it. Why would they make such mischievous claim. And how come other Prophets didn't correct such blasphemy by claiming God is in one fixed location.


What you wrote up there is the exact problem with the description of God in the Quran. The book got it wrong right from the word go.
God is a spirit, he's not in any fixed location. God exist outside of time, space and matter; he cannot be defined with any of those spatial orientation.
The Bible makes it clear God can be in inside and outside his creation AT THE SAME TIME. none of them can define him. He can choose to be in gazillion number of places at the same time if he wants to. HE'S A SPIRIT NOT A COMPOSITE BODY. It's only a composite body like humans or Allah that move with his body whenever he's in motion.

Isaiah 66:1
Thus says the Lord, “Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool.
Where then is a house you could build for Me? And where is a place that I may rest?


This is very funny. It's interesting how you Muslims attributes human characteristics to your God but when we say Allah has a composite body made up of parts, u get angry and consider it an insult.
So u telling me Allah can't be in a cow dung or toilet because his eyes will see dirty poo or his nose will perceive bad odour, his brain will then send neural signals to his senses that he shouldn't be in those places because it's not dignifying for his composite body.
My friend your God has a composite body, which is like humans...whether u want to accept it or not.

The true God is a spirit, he's not bound by any human 5 senses or human characteristics of MR NIGER D. God work based on his will not by any human action or activity. He's beyond that. If God wants to be in the lowest of the lowest, he will be there, nothing can stop him, not any cow dung.
Jesus descended into the hades to snatch the key of death from the devil and declare victory over death once and for all. 1000 demons couldn't stop him. HE EMERGED VICTORIOUS.

This is what the ancients prophets has to say about God being in the lowest of places.

Isaiah 57:15
For thus says the high and exalted One, Who lives forever, whose name is Holy, “I dwell on a high and holy place, And also with the contrite and lowly of spirit. In order to revive the spirit of the lowly, And to revive the heart of the contrite.

Psalm 113:4-6
The Lord is high above all nations; His glory is above the heavens. Who is like the Lord our God, Who is enthroned on high, Who humbles Himself to behold the things that are in heaven and in the earth?

Zechariah 9.11
As for you, because of the blood of my covenant with you,
I will free your prisoners from the bottomless pit.

This is the God you should be serving, This is the God worthy of worship. A God ready to go all out for you no matter the circumstances. His presence is sure and ready for you at all time.
Not a god who's irritated by toilet or cow dung because he doesn't want his fine apparel be soiled with poo.

See how David described God- nothing can stop him when he's on the move. absolutely nothing

Psalm 24
Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
8 Who is this King of glory? The Lord strong and mighty, the Lord mighty in battle.



Mr Man I already answered your question. I'm not the one who quoted John 14.6 but if that's what u looking for, let me respond.

Jesus as the Son of God is saying he's the only way to the Father. You cannot get to the Father outside of him.
Now does this make him God?
Yes, because the Son of God is God himself. It's not about what Jesus said or did that made him God, He's God because he's the Son of God.
His personal designation (noun) is The Son of God but can also be called God because he possess the same divinity as his Father who is God.
John 1
18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
I quoted the injeel and u rejected it claiming it was written by John. So what do u want me to do?


Guy sit down and think. As u can see I deliberately didn't quote from the New testament because u will claim it's we Christians that's corrupting the word of God.
I quoted from the TANAKH from ancients Prophets who knew nothing about Christianity. But they believed and confirmed God is omnipresent.
Multiple prophets of God 1000 years apart testified and affirmed God is omnipresent. Only one prophet claimed God is not omnipresent, only one.
If u are not a Muslim, who would u think is right.
The problem is not even that this prophet denied omnipresent essence of God, he simply didn't know God is omnipresent. Muhammed didn't know other prophets said God is omnipresent.
Because he had no such knowledge, he simply fixed God in one position- above a throne.
Na so problem start

Think my friend, think.

beardedboy:
So many inconsistencies in your submissions. But I'll highlight only one for now because I don't have time to type epistle.
You quoted: "The heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool" thinking it buttresses your point but it completely destroys all your arguments.

beardedboy:
You know it's one thing to quote and another thing to understand what you're quoting.

Finally, you're saying things that contradict logic. God exists outside of time and space yet he exists in all places. That implies he also exists in time and place.

Too much inconsistency.

SIRTee15:
What exactly is the inconsistency because don't understand your point. Be clear.
The verse is talking about expanse and vastness of God's presence stretching from the heaven to the earth. It's not literal!!!
No Christian thinks God has a foot. I sincerely hope U know what is anthropomorphism?



God's physicality exist outside of time and space.
God's existence outside of time and space means he's not bound by those dimensions in anyway. He's not subjected to the rules of time and space even if he enters his creation. That's why God can be outside and inside his creation at the same time because those factors doesn't define him.

We as humans are bound by the laws of nature which consist of time and space. because our existence orientation is defined by space, we can only be at one specific location at a time. God is not bound by that rule because he's a spirit- he can be everywhere and anywhere he choose to at the same time. That essence is not lost because he entered his creation.
U dictate the rules for something U create, not the other way round.
That U and I decide to pretend play as animal or a child or a car doesn't make us one. Isn't it?

Look at it this way, I want to assume U watch sci-fi movies.
Now if aliens enter our world today from wherever in the universe. They would not be bound by the laws of nature on earth because their existence is not from here.
Even though they are here on earth, their existence would still be based on the laws governing the nature of their own world not this world.
That's why superheros like superman or
wonder-woman doesn't age even though they live on planet earth because their existence is not from earth.

Do you get it now!!!!

Btw, don't they teach U guys basic metaphysics of theology in your masjid.

Seriously if they do, U would know Quran doesn't make sense.
Do not see this as insult, rather statement of fact.

beardedboy:
1. Anthropomorphism is an actor disbelief.

beardedboy:
2. Aliens would be bounded by the laws of physics.

beardedboy:
3. How can you base your argument on sci-fi?! Sci-fi is a fancy name for "things that never happened".

beardedboy:
4. "The earth is my foot stool" clearly implies that He's above the earth. Think, you'll see.

SIRTee15:
U gotta be kidding me. The description of your Allah falls into pieces and collapse without anthropomorphism.
U Muslims will claim Allah is not like anything of his creation. That the shin of Allah isn't like the shin of humans or anything imagined, the hand of Allah is not like anything imagined, the face of Allah is unlike his creation, If U can conceptualise the shin, then it can't be shin of Allah because the shin of Allah is unlike anything known or imagined.
That's anthropomorphism my friend- ascribing human characteristics to things of alternate reality. We do this in order to conceptualise abstract non human entities.

You Muslims run under anthropomorphism to hide the flawed description of Allah
Yet U claim anthropomorphism is unreal. The joke is on you.


No Christian ever believe God has human parts whether real or imagined.

The bible makes it clear God is invisible. Different persons in the bible assert the invisible nature of God because he's a spirit.



1 John 4:12
No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.

John 6:46
Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.


John 1:18
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

John 4:24
God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

1 Timothy 6:16
Who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.

Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.



Only if that laws of physics is the same in both world. If not, aliens would be bound by the law of science from their own world not that of earth.
If their law of nature is non applicable here, they would either perish or leave.

For example, the concept of time is different in some metaverse- scientist believe time is measured differently in those reality, while some metaverse are believed to be timeless.
Aliens from such extraterrestrial environment cannot be bound by the concept of time here on earth even if they visit.
God created physics, he cannot be bound by laws of physics bocs it doesn't operate in his realm.


U don't get it, do U?
As I said earlier, Aliens that need quasi crystals or metallic hydrogen for life won't suddenly embrace oxygen simply because they now live on earth. Laws of natures governing territorial and celestial bodies are different.

That's the point I'm trying to make with superhero, not telling U they are real. Gosh.

Let me ask U a simple question.
If space travel becomes a possibility tmrw and humans travel to a planet that has inhabitants who communicate naturally via wavelengths. How will humans living on this new planet communicate with each other?



U really don't know how ridiculous your argument sound.
One of the reason I believe the Quran is false is this assertion that Allah is above the earth yet not inside his creation.

If Allah is above the earth, it shows he's in a position determined by space and spatial orientation. He's in a position relative to space. He's inside his creation becos space is created.

Let me ask another question? If I develop the intrinsic ability to look for Allah.
Will I find him under his creation or beside his creation? Or the only place to find Allah is above his creation?
Note I said 'if' so don't bring up mind games.

beardedboy:
Beating your chest will do you no good.
An insect has a head, you have a head, a snake has a head. They're all heads but are they the same? Is saying you have a head tantamount to likening you to an insect or snake?

beardedboy:
God doesn't have human parts, so what's his so-called son? I believe God has no human parts but I'm only mentioning this to show you the contradiction of your claims.

beardedboy:
All these metaverse and alien gymnastics you're doing is baseless. The laws of physics are universal and that's why space shuttles from earth can land on other planets. Stop delving into what you have no knowledge about.

beardedboy:
I don't think you realise how many versions of your God you've mentioned in this thread.

SIRTee15:
Does Your God have head that cannot be compared with the heads in this physical world?
Does Allah have a shin and face that cannot be compared with anything physical known to man.
If the answer is Yes, then U are applying anthropomorphism to description of your God.
Case closed.
Anthropomorphism doesn't belong to Arabic language, U guys cannot steal it in attempt to redefine it.


Oga rest. Son of God is a word the Jews coined for The Messiah. No Christians believe God has a literal Son.
Na Muhammed we should ask how he got the idea Allah must have sex with a goddess to have a son.


Oga rest. My message is clear. Nature is not the same in celestial bodies. Space shuttle that can't even near mercury not to talk of Sun.
Aliens that don't use oxygen for life will not embrace it simple because they arrive on earth.
That God entered his creation doesn't mean he will be bound by time. He's timeless.



Finally we can now diagnose your problem.
Just say U don't know the God of Abraham, Moses and Jesus, them we will teach U.
Your problem was bringing the description of Allah in the Koran and extrapolating it to the bible.

God described himself in the scripture and his self description encompasses the FF qualities

Divine simplicity, immutability, ultimate transcendent reality, aseity, eternality and impassibility.

If your understanding of God is limited to just one of his characteristics. Don't blame me, blame the writers of Quran who did a shoddy job describing Allah and claiming he's the God of the previous scriptures.

beardedboy:
You're a waste of time.

SIRTee15:
I guess as much. When U hit a truck, U go silent.
Next time pick your battle wisely.

beardedboy:
Battle? You are more or less a pesky fly.

beardedboy:
You're a waste of time.

beardedboy:
You're a waste of time.