₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkie:
So books are conscious and hence powerful enough to evoke different meanings from their contents? Or do you instead mean that the minds of men are powerful enough to evoke different meanings from the static contents of books?

illicit:
➜If the books were left alone, it can't do anything to anybody's mind...

Kobojunkie:
So, the minds are not at fault, it is the books to blame here with you?

illicit:
➜Yeah. There's one other christain zealot here, who claims that Christians exist even before Jesus Christ...
He said there were Christians in Genesis I think the guy is really daft

illicit:
➜Exactly. Cos minds wrote it too, whoever wrote it wants you to think in a particular way.
➜Do you think books wrote themselves? They are not that powerful, why we say books are powerful is because they contain another person's thought, history or ideas and you have to adopt them especially when it is termed "holy book"

ahmedio2017:
Learn to read and understand olodo omo

MightySparrow:
Verse 90 from surah Yunus
﴿۞ وَجَاوَزْنَا بِبَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ الْبَحْرَ فَأَتْبَعَهُمْ فِرْعَوْنُ وَجُنُودُهُ بَغْيًا وَعَدْوًا ۖ حَتَّىٰ إِذَا أَدْرَكَهُ الْغَرَقُ قَالَ آمَنتُ أَنَّهُ لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا الَّذِي آمَنَتْ بِهِ بَنُو إِسْرَائِيلَ وَأَنَا مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ﴾
[ يونس: 90]

English - Sahih International
10:90 And We took the Children of Israel across the sea, and Pharaoh and his soldiers pursued them in tyranny and enmity until, when drowning overtook him, he said, "I believe that there is no deity except that in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of the Muslims."
Surah Yunus in Arabic

The reason Allah wants to exterminate the children of Israel is because they were not Muslims and He sent a Muslim king to kill them. The same agenda was passed down to Mohammed and his followers till date.


The question now is: who defended Israelites in the Red Sea against Pharaoh?

Qasim6:
➜The way you guys reason, one can only pity you. Is it that you guys can't comprehend or u just choose to be ignorant deliberately?

Kobojunkie:
Comprehend what exactly? Explain yourself!

Qasim6:
➜The verse he quoted and the verse that follows is self explanatory. Maybe you should check it out yourself then come back if you too don't understand.

90 We brought the Children of Israel across the sea. Then Pharaoh and his soldiers pursued them unjustly and oppressively. But as Pharaoh was drowning, he cried out, “I believe that there is no god except that in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am ˹now˺ one of those who submit.”
91 ˹He was told,˺ “Now ˹you believe˺? But you always disobeyed and were one of the corruptors.
92 Today We will preserve your corpse so that you may become an example for those who come after you. And surely most people are heedless of Our examples!”
93 Indeed, We settled the Children of Israel in a blessed land,1 and granted them good, lawful provisions. They did not differ until knowledge came to them.2 Surely your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Judgment regarding their differences. - Verse 90-93 from surah Yunus

Kobojunkie:
Be specific! Explain yourself by citing the verses and how they are self-explanatory, according to you.
What exactly is one meant to comprehend from reading the above other than what is in fact stated as-is written?

Qasim6:
➜Pharaoh was in the middle of the ocean, he was about to be drowned. Then he was trying to repent thereby making the statement “I believe that there is no god except that in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am one of those who submit.”
The next 2 versesQ10-91 Now ˹you believe˺? But you always disobeyed and were one of the corruptors.Q10-92
Today We will preserve your corpse so that you may become an example for those who come after you. And surely most people are heedless of Our examples!
➜Reading these verses, are the verses pointing to pharaoh being a muslim?

Kobojunkie:
⚈He was trying to repent, or he repented right before taking his last breath? I mean, why would a person make such a statement right before death if he did not in fact mean it?
⚈Also, does repenting just as one is about to die not qualify one to be considered a Muslim? Are deathbed confessions/decisions not considered valid in Islam?

Gabrielshow24:
One asserts that he is Muslim while the other makes a statement based on evidence!

Qasim6:
➜You are a joke! He was trying to repent when he was already facing death after he's been shown signs after signs. That kind of repentance is invalid.

Kobojunkie:
⚈He was trying to repent, or he repented right before taking his last breath? I mean, why would a person make such a statement right before death if he did not in fact mean it?
⚈Also, does repenting just as one is about to die not qualify one to be considered a Muslim? Are deathbed confessions/decisions not considered valid in Islam?

Kobojunkie:
See the texts in bold and color for the difference you seek! Nebuchadnezzar never worshipped the God of Israel, and he never claimed to be one of the Israelites who could.

Kobojunkie:
So what you are saying is that deathbed confessions/attempts at repentance are invalid in Islam?

Curiously, last-minute regrets and attempts at repentance are very commonplace. There were probably many before Pharoah who also attempted to repent before their death. If Islam rejected all of their attempts as you claim, why the mention of this supposed attempt at repentance by Pharoah, then? I mean, this particular claim made in Islam comes well over 2000 years after the actual death of Pharoah. To what end?

IMEI:
1. Nope he wasn't repentant, he was on the verge of drowning and sought to save himself that's why he said what he said. This was after he(pharaoh) was given numerous opportunities to repent
2. Accepting Islam on one's deathbed is valid up until a certain point, that wasn't the case with pharaoh
3. Like was pointed out, the verses are self explanatory...the verse after pharaoh claims to believe, his 'profession of faith' was rejected and he was made an example of for future generations. That's expressly clear
4. The Qur'an makes it abundantly clear that pharaoh stands completely condemned to God's punishment. In fact, no one is more condemned in the Qur'an than the pharaoh, so this extremely stupid attempt at misrepresenting Qur'an is idiotic

IMEI:
➜Qur'an is the direct word of God,
➜ this is God stating that He rejected pharaoh's claim of believing in Him
➜ God being the One who knows all things, knew pharaoh's motivations were phony and He rejected it...only God knows actual intentions and a person who genuinely repents is known by God, vis-a-vis someone who is insincere

Kobojunkie:
1. He sought to save himself, but how? The verse does not imply or say any of that, though. So why conclude this to have been the case?

2. Up until what point? Please, be exact. Can you include a reference to other statements that could support this claim that it was not the case with this Pharaoh dude that was mentioned?

3. My problem so far is not with what is stated in the verse but the assertions that have been made so far regarding what is presented in those verse. Almost seems you two are reading from other sources at this point. So, where is this other source?

4. Where does your Quran make this statement that you claim? Where?

Kobojunkie:
You are allowed to believe what you wish of the book; that is not the concern here at all.

2. The fact that the verses quoted suggest that the Allah of the Muslims answered directly to the Pharaoh character implies that the Pharaoh's last-minute prayer was answered by the Allah of the Muslims. So, your insistence that the Pharoah's claim of believing was rejected by the Allah of the Muslims would require some additional support, should it not?

3. The Allah of the Muslims knew this, yet he chose to directly answer the Pharoah still. Come on now!

IMEI:
This isn't worth responding to

Qasim6:
people that deliberately choose to be ignorant.

IMEI:
➜The verse is contained in a Chapter called Yunus i.e. the 10th Chapter of the Qur'an and it has 109 verses in it. It details the in many verses the story of Moses and Pharaoh and the verse in question is part of a series of verses. If you want the full gist, read the Chapter. The story of Moses and the pharaoh is the most detailed and most mentioned story in the entire Qur'an and it has many verses in many Chapters detailing it. The status of pharaoh and his place with God is clear all across the Qur'an...the OP picked the least ambiguous story in the entire Qur'an to try to misreprent due to his ignorance. Read this below for the full story complete with references:
https://quran.com/en/20:41/tafsirs/en-tafsir-maarif-ul-quran

IMEI:
➜This isn't worth responding to

illicit:
Yes Nigeria did not exist until 1914 when the northern and southern protectorates were almagamated and the name was coined.

illicit:
So who were the Christians in Genesis?

Pls I am waiting...

Kobojunkie:
Is this some sort of attempt to deviate from the main topic or what? 😏

My questions were specific in this case. Where does your Quran make this statement that the Allah of the Muslims rejected Pharoah's request for repentance even though the Allah of the Muslims answered Pharoah during his last hours? Or where is it stated that last-minute requests of the kind offered by the Pharoah are rejected by the Allah of the Muslims? Where?

FuckTheMod:
Lol
Who opened your cage?
Frustrated weyrey

IMEI:
1) You have comprehension issues Read from the link When you actually read up on Qur'an then we can debate, as for now, I can only tutor you since you know nothing
4) On what basis are you questioning my assertions, your poor grasp of a clear English translation? I'm not responsible for you not being able comprehend a straightforwardly worded verse of the Qur'an
5) If you'll not educate yourself from at the very least, the link I provided you, then you have only your time to waste

Qasim6:
The way you guys reason, one can only pity you.

Is it that you guys can't comprehend or u just choose to be ignorant deliberately?

Kobojunkie:
Did you read through the content of the link yourself? If yes, why aren't you able to point me directly to the lines that answer my particular questions to you?

Skimming through the content of the link, I have not been able to find any mentions of the events that took place right as the Pharaoh was dying, so what is it you are afraid of?

2. There is a lack of evidence for the additional claims you have made thus far regarding the information presented in verses 90-93 from Surah Yunus. If you insist that it is a poor grasp of English translation, then you should probably help me by providing me with the source for the additional details you introduced via your interpretation.

3. I see you are quickly turning this into an ego trip instead of responding appropriately to the questions asked.