₦airaland Forum

Antichristian2:
➜What do you think about these instances compared to the Christian's vicarious atonement where God himself or his son or angel according to JW had to come and die for humans to be saved?

Contrary to the claims of religions, Jesus Christ of Israel never said He was a sin offering. Neither does the book which you quote from suggest that He was any such.

Kobojunkie:
Contrary to the claims of religions, Jesus Christ of Israel never said He was a sin offering. Neither does the book which you quote from suggest that He was any such.

So what does being "a ransome for many" mean?

Antichristian2:
➜So what does being "a ransome for many" mean?

He came to give His life in order that many may be saved.

Kobojunkie:
He came to give His life in order that many may be saved.

So how many was saved with his life?

Were people not saved before he died?

Even John the baptist was beheaded as a birthday gift, he no die for anyone!

Antichristian2:
⚉ So how many was saved with his life?
⚉ Were people not saved before he died?
⚉ Even John the baptist was beheaded as a birthday gift, he no die for anyone!

Are you and I the ones doing the tabulating for the Kingdom of God or something?

2. Saved as in?

3. I am not sure I follow at all. What has his death to do with anything?

Kobojunkie:
Are you and I the ones doing the tabulating for the Kingdom of God or something?

2. Saved as in?

3. I am not sure I follow at all. What has his death to do with anything?

If sins can be forgiven without blood sacrifice as in the OP why didn't YHWH just thread that path?

Must He kill Jesus?

After Jonah warning and the children of Nineveh repent, if they sinned again will God send Jonah or another prophet to preach to them again. What about after many years they sinned again and Jonah is dead, God will raise the dead body of jonah to go and preach again so that they will repent.
Do you know how many times people in the old rend the cloth and wear sack cloth to show that they are sorry and to repent?
Do you know how many times the Israelite build statues and memorials that they will only serve God and not serve another God. And after those memorials and statues they builds to remind them, they still sin and forget those statues.
God is not looking to forgive us one time, he want to forgive for eternity. God want to save through the precious blood of his beloved son Jesus and after watching us and making us pure, he now send his Spirit to become our life through Jesus that lives in us. With this we live over sin and the devil. This is what God did for us through the death and resurrection of his son Jesus. So Jesus has paid for sin with his body for eternity. We don't just sin and God send his prophet to preach to us and we repent, and after some time we sin again and repent. With Jesus we have eternal forgiveness and the power to live above sin

Antichristian2:
➜If sins can be forgiven without blood sacrifice as in the OP why didn't YHWH just thread that path?
➜Must He kill Jesus?

Again, if you studied the Old Law of Moses, you would note that in Exodus 12, YHWH instituted the Passover Feast, an everlasting feast agreement that marked His agreement with His people, Israel. During that feast, a lamb without blemish is sacrificed, not as a sin offering but as a seal or sign of the covenant between YHWH and His people. The lamb is referred to as the Passover Lamb.

Later on, we find out that YHWH also instituted the offering of what is referred to as a Sin Offering once a year — on the 10th day of the 10th month of each year in the land of Canaan—, and this offering was meant to clear the people of their sins each year. There were other sin offerings stipulated on the individual level as well. This detail can be found in the books of the Law of Moses e.g. Leviticus 4

Given these details and the fact that all those you mentioned have had their sins forgiven them by YHWH— excluding the Ninevites who had no sins mentioned to be saved from by YHWH —, do you think your question is truly a valid one?

2. Jesus Christ of Israel clearly explained to you in John 10 that He willingly gave up His life in order that He could reap for Himself the people that were to be redeemed by Him as a result. YHWH did not kill Jesus Christ. Rather, Jesus Christ, the Eternal Life of YHWH Himself, chose to give up His temporary life on earth, to resume His place as Eternal King over the Kingdom of God which He, during His brief time on death, served as herald for the coming of.

Antichristian2:
What do you think about these instances compared to the Christian's vicarious atonement where God himself or his son or angel according to JW had to come and die for humans to be saved?

Were the Ninevites SAVED?

You don't understand something instead of humbly learning you want to argue.

Ninevites were supposed to be destroyed but God changed that and left them to continue living that doesn't translate to salvation o!

What did YHWH— God of Israel — send Jonah to do in Nineveh?

1. Then the Lord spoke to Jonah again and said,
2 “Go to that big city Nineveh, and say what I tell you.”
3 So Jonah obeyed the Lord and went to Nineveh. It was a very large city. A person had to walk for three days to travel through it.
4 Jonah went to the center of the city and began speaking to the people. He said, “After 40 days, Nineveh will be destroyed!”
5 The people of Nineveh believed God. They decided to stop eating for a time to think about their sins. They put on special clothes to show they were sorry. All the people in the city did this, from the most important to the least important.
6 When the king of Nineveh heard about this, he left his throne, removed his robe, put on special clothes to show that he was sorry, and sat in ashes.
7 The king wrote a special message and sent it throughout the city: A command from the king and his great rulers: For a short time no person or animal should eat anything. No herd or flock will be allowed in the fields. Nothing living in Nineveh will eat or drink water.
8 But every person and every animal must be covered with a special cloth to show they are sad. People must cry loudly to God. Everyone must change their life and stop doing bad things.
9 Who knows? Maybe God will stop being angry and change his mind, and we will not be punished.
10 God saw what the people did. He saw that they stopped doing evil. So God changed his mind and did not do what he planned. He did not punish the people. - John 3 vs 1 - 10

According to the passage above, God's intention was to destroy the city of Nineveh, if the people continued to do evil in His sight. God is recorded to have done similar in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah. There is no mention that the intention was to save the souls or judge the souls of the individual inhabitants of the city but the entire people of the city instead.

While Nineveh was spared at that time, it was eventually destroyed by YHWH—God of Israel —as prophesied through His Prophet - Nahum Chapter 1 - 3.

MaxInDHouse:
Were the Ninevites SAVED?

You don't understand something instead of humbly learning you want to argue.

Ninevites were supposed to be destroyed but God changed that and left them to continue living that doesn't translate to salvation o!

Salvation from their sins!

They were saved from their sins at that instant. If not they would have perished like Sodom!

Kobojunkie:
Again, if you studied the Old Law of Moses, you would note that in Exodus 12, YHWH instituted the Passover Feast, an everlasting feast agreement that marked His agreement with His people, Israel. During that feast, a lamb without blemish is sacrificed, not as a sin offering but as a seal or sign of the covenant between YHWH and His people. The lamb is referred to as the Passover Lamb.

Later on, we find out that YHWH also instituted the offering of what is referred to as a Sin Offering once a year — on the 10th day of the 10th month of each year in the land of Canaan—, and this offering was meant to clear the people of their sins each year. There were other sin offerings stipulated on the individual level as well. This detail can be found in the books of the Law of Moses e.g. Leviticus 4

Given these details and the fact that all those you mentioned have had their sins forgiven them by YHWH— excluding the Ninevites who had no sins mentioned to be saved from by YHWH —, do you think your question is truly a valid one?

The Ninevites were about to be destroyed like Sodom but they were forgiven due to their repentance! No one died for them! And they killed no animal.
The soul who sins is the one who will die. A son will not bear the iniquity of his father, and a father will not bear the iniquity of his son. The righteousness of the righteous man will fall upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked man will fall upon him. But if the wicked man turns from all the sins he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. None of the transgressions he has committed will be held against him. Because of the righteousness he has practiced, he will live. Ezekiel 18:20-22

2. Jesus Christ of Israel clearly explained to you in John 10 that He willingly gave up His life in order that He could reap for Himself the people that were to be redeemed by Him as a result. YHWH did not kill Jesus Christ. Rather, Jesus Christ, the Eternal Life of YHWH Himself, chose to give up His temporary life on earth, to resume His place as Eternal King over the Kingdom of God which He, during His brief time on death, served as herald for the coming of.

Which should we believe, Jesus willingly came to die. Or that Jesus does not have a will of his own but does only the will of his father? He does what he sees the father doing! So when the father dies Jesus too died on the cross!

Antichristian2:
Salvation from their sins!
They were saved from their sins at that instant. If not they would have perished like Sodom!

NO!
They were pardoned so they can continue living has nothing to do with salvation.
Salvation is approval to live forever!

MaxInDHouse:
NO!
They were pardoned so they can continue living has nothing to do with salvation.
Salvation is approval to live forever!

Is this what is recorded in the Bible? Please show us?

Antichristian2:
Is this what is recorded in the Bible? Please show us?

Did those Ninevites live forever?
If not they are not yet saved.
Salvation is everlasting life!

MaxInDHouse:
Did those Ninevites live forever?
If not they are not yet saved.
Salvation is everlasting life!

That's the JW theory from NY city!

They don't believe in Hell or Paradise as a separate creation in existence now!

Antichristian2:
That's the JW theory from NY city!
They don't believe in Hell or Paradise as a separate creation in existence now!

You can continue running away from JWs it's OK but you just have to know how far away the truth is from falsehood.
So enjoy your argument with your friends!

MaxInDHouse:
You can continue running away from JWs it's OK but you just have to know how far the truth is to falsehood.
So enjoy your argument with your friends!

this just nor won gree for maxi

delkuf:
this just nor won gree for maxi

For your information he fears me even much more than his teachers in Islam if you don't know!

MaxInDHouse:
You can continue running away from JWs it's OK but you just have to know how far the truth is to falsehood.
So enjoy your argument with your friends!

Who is running from you a JW?

Jesus is Angel.

So Jehovah sent Angel to come die for his People.

No hell and no Paradise!

And this is your truth?

Jesus came in 1914 to kickstart Christianity in the name of JW with the headquarters in Broklyn later NY!
Jesus became an English man!

Antichristian2:
➜The Ninevites were about to be destroyed like Sodom but they were forgiven due to their repentance! No one died for them! And they killed no animal.
The soul who sins is the one who will die. A son will not bear the iniquity of his father, and a father will not bear the iniquity of his son. The righteousness of the righteous man will fall upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked man will fall upon him. But if the wicked man turns from all the sins he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. None of the transgressions he has committed will be held against him. Because of the righteousness he has practiced, he will live. Ezekiel 18:20-22
➜ Which should we believe, Jesus willingly came to die. Or that Jesus does not have a will of his own but does only the will of his father? He does what he sees the father doing! So when the father dies Jesus too died on the cross!

1. You quoted from a passage clearly directed at the individual descendants of Jacob/Israel which states that the soul(individual)— not nation —which sins will die. So, what exactly did you intend to have that passage do in this case for this discourse?

2. Well, if you read the book for yourself you would see that He did not act of His Will alone.

17 The Father loves me because I give my life. I give my life so that I can get it back again.
18 No one takes my life away from me. I give my own life freely. I have the right to give my life, and I have the right to get it back again. This is what the Father told me.” - John 10 vs 17 - 18

This act of His was sanctioned by YHWH — God of Israel —, His Father hence His Father's Will.

Kobojunkie:
1. You quoted from a passage clearly directed at the individual descendants of Jacob/Israel which states that the soul(individual)— not nation —which sins will die. So, what exactly did you intend to have that passage do in this case for this discourse?

What's the sin of the said nation? Is it not individuals that compose of a nation? Aren't individual souls a subset of a nation's?

2. Well, if you read the book for yourself you would see that He did not act of His Will alone.
This act of His was sanctioned by YHWH — God of Israel —, His Father hence His Father's Will.

So Jesus had his will yet he claim he's not acting on his will but the will of his father!

He said many contradictory things! He said he does what he sees his father doing! Did he see the father dying for him to also die?

I wonder how you guys sleep with that book!

Antichristian2:
➜What's the sin of the said nation?
➜ Is it not individuals that compose of a nation? Aren't individual souls a subset of a nation's?
➜ So Jesus had his will yet he claim he's not acting on his will but the will of his father! He said many contradictory things! He said he does what he sees his father doing! Did he see the father dying for him to also die? I wonder how you guys sleep with that book!

1. What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?

2. Again, the passage you quote specifically states that it only applies as far as the descendants of Jacob are concerned. So, you would need to find laws that apply to foreigners not living in the Land of Israel for that logic of yours to fly.

3. You can play all the semantic games you like, after all I have shown you what Jesus Christ of Israel Himself said of the matter.

Kobojunkie:
1. What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?

Homosexuality, pride and arrogance, cruelty and exploitation and most importantly the rejection of God!

2. Again, the passage you quote specifically states that it only applies as far as the descendants of Jacob are concerned. So, you would need to find laws that apply to foreigners not living in the Land of Israel for that logic of yours to fly.

YHWH has no concern for foreigners! They are already doomed! You said he is only the God of Israel. Others apart from Israel are not for him.

3. You can play all the semantic games you like, after all I have shown you what Jesus Christ of Israel Himself said of the matter.

And i have responded well.

Antichristian2:
➜Homosexuality, pride and arrogance, cruelty and exploitation and most importantly the rejection of God!
➜ YHWH has no concern for foreigners! They are already doomed! You said he is only the God of Israel. Others apart from Israel are not for him. And i have responded well.

1. Where did you read this list of yours from?

2. Since YHWH gave Himself the title of God of Israel alone, you concluded that means that every other nation out there is doomed by Him? Yet, here we are many thousands of years afterward and they are still thriving, how come? 🙄🙄🙄

Antichristian2:
Who is running from you a JW?
Jesus is Angel.
So Jehovah sent Angel to come die for his People.
No hell and no Paradise!
And this is your truth?
Jesus came in 1914 to kickstart Christianity in the name of JW with the headquarters in Broklyn later NY!
Jesus became an English man!

No matter what a religion says about their beliefs since you and i never seen any God or prophet with our eyes there is only one way to confirm the truth:
Practical application and benefits of what the religion teaches.
Only Jehovah's Witnesses organization has this all others are just telling stories about what you have never seen before and they don't have anything tangible to show for their beliefs.
Borrow a leaf from that!

MaxInDHouse:
No matter what a religion says about their beliefs since you and i never seen any God or prophet with our eyes there is only one way to confirm the truth:
Practical application and benefits of what the religion teaches.
Only Jehovah's Witnesses organization has this all others are just telling stories about what you have never seen before and they don't have anything tangible to show for their beliefs.
Borrow a leaf from that!

So if the Church of Mormon has it better in practicality than the JW.org you'd gladly join them? I still can't figure out how your brain thinks!

Antichristian2:
So if the Church of Mormon has it better in practicality than the JW.org you'd gladly join them? I still can't figure out how your brain thinks!

So what are you doing in Islam and why worrying yourself if what you are saying isn't PRACTICAL?
Obviously you are just sticking to your parents religion you are not interested in the truth.
As for me no religion holds me if what they're teaching isn't PRACTICAL!

MaxInDHouse:
So what are you doing in Islam and why worrying yourself if what you are saying isn't PRACTICAL?
Obviously you are just sticking to your parents religion you are not interested in the truth.
As for me no religion holds me if what they're teaching isn't PRACTICAL!

Practicality is subjective! If Mormon is more practical you can join them since practicality is your watchword!

Who specifies that anything be practical? Did your Jesus or Jehovah mention practicality in your Bible?

You just like to run from pillar to post!

Antichristian2:
Practicality is subjective! If Mormon is more practical you can join them since practicality is your watchword!
Who specifies that anything be practical? Did your Jesus or Jehovah mention practicality in your Bible? You just like to run from pillar to post!

Definitely Islam is confirm brainwashing!

So if what the book Arabians brought to your ancestors has no practical benefits you will just swallow what is inside hook line and sinker!

Well this is what Jesus have to say about PRACTICALITY:

“Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men. Matthew 7:15-20

Here Jesus likens whatever your religion teaches to planting of seeds and used its practical benefits as FRUITS. So if your religion doesn't bear good fruit it simply means your religion is from Satan whether you claim it's from Almighty or Greatest or Most merciful Creator as long as it's not yielding positive results it is from Satan.
That's PRACTICALITY from Jesus' perspective!

MaxInDHouse:
Definitely Islam is confirm brainwashing!

So if what the book Arabians brought to your ancestors has no practical benefits you will just swallow what is inside hook line and sinker!

Well this is what Jesus have to say about PRACTICALITY:

“Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men. Matthew 7:15-20

Here Jesus likens whatever your religion teaches to planting of seeds and used its practical benefits as FRUITS. So if your religion doesn't bear good fruit it simply means your religion is from Satan whether you claim it's from Almighty or Greatest or Most merciful Creator as long as it's not yielding positive results it is from Satan.
That's PRACTICALITY from Jesus' perspective!

Same Jesus was equally yoking with sinners about but Paul said:
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership can righteousness have with wickedness? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 2 Crionthians 6:14-15

That's the hypocrisy of your practicality!
No wonder Jehovah witness has always in the bad books of some countries. Why is your major crimes sexual in nature like child sexual abuse?