₦airaland Forum

delkuf:
how do you mean that faith is God given

When I say "Faith is God-given," I mean that true, saving faith is not something we generate on our own but is enabled by God's grace.

Let me buttress this biblically;

1. Faith Comes from Hearing God’s Word

“Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.” (Romans 10:17)

This means faith is initiated by God’s revelation—we believe because God has spoken.

2. Faith Is a Gift from God

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is the gift of God.” (Ephesians 2:

The entire process of salvation, including the faith to believe, comes from God, not human effort.

Thankgod89:
The terms eternal life and everlasting life mean the same thing in biblical context. However, some distinctions can be noted:

[
Eternal life Focuses more on the quality of life—a life that comes from God, beginning at salvation and continuing forever (John 17:3: "Now this is eternal life: that they know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.".
While Everlasting life – emphasize the duration—life that never ends.

But since the original Greek uses the same phrase for both, the meaning remains the same.

you are wrong sir. Everlasting life and eternal life are not the same biblical. The English dictionary can define them to have the same meaning but in the Bible they are two very different thing. Am not talking about Greek here. Is like saying because In English it is define the same so they are the same. I will just give you two clue. I don't want to go too deep in this.
No 1 clue is that dont you think that the Bible will not intentionally use the same words one verses apart. Why will the Bible say eternal life in verse 15 and say everlasting life in verse 16. If you are a good student of the Bible, you will know that it is strange for it to be written like that. There is something God want us to know and is our duty to find out.
2 clue is in verse 14. If you want to know the difference between everlasting life and eternal life, understand what the Bible is saying in verse 14. The beauty of us as a Christian is what is understanding what verse 14 says and the difference between everlasting life and eternal life.
Like I said I don't want to go too deep into this. It is a journey of our Christian life. Not some things I can just be explaining to in few line here.

delkuf:
Everlasting life and eternal life are not the same biblical.

Na wah o!

MaxInDHouse:
Na wah o!

I wasn't talking to you

delkuf:
I wasn't talking to you

Olódo!
Was i talking to you when you were quoting and mentioning me up and down the forum?

delkuf:
stop bringing all nonsense jw doctrine here. It wrong for to say that the Lord Jesus is angel Micheal. Very wrong. You guys have twisted the Bible to suit your doctrine.

See your life!

delkuf:
Everlasting life and eternal life are not the same biblical.

You know nothing other than running up and down with the crowds against the JWs!

delkuf:
you are wrong sir. Everlasting life and eternal life are not the same biblical. The English dictionary can define them to have the same meaning but in the Bible they are two very different thing. Am not talking about Greek here. Is like saying because In English it is define the same so they are the same. I will just give you two clue. I don't want to go too deep in this.
No 1 clue is that dont you think that the Bible will not intentionally use the same words one verses apart. Why will the Bible say eternal life in verse 15 and say everlasting life in verse 16. If you are a good student of the Bible, you will know that it is strange for it to be written like that. There is something God want us to know and is our duty to find out.
2 clue is in verse 14. If you want to know the difference between everlasting life and eternal life, understand what the Bible is saying in verse 14. The beauty of us as a Christian is what is understanding what verse 14 says and the difference between everlasting life and eternal life.
Like I said I don't want to go too deep into this. It is a journey of our Christian life. Not some things I can just be explaining to in few line here.

It seems like you want to emphasize your point even when the Bible itself is silent on the matter. You can’t expect me to ignore the original language of the Bible and still accept your interpretation.

I have six different Bible translations, and only the KJV uses "everlasting life" in John 3:16, while the others say "eternal life." Are you suggesting that the translators who used "eternal life" got it wrong or weren’t good students of the Bible?

My brother, there is no hidden meaning in Scripture—"eternal life" and "everlasting life" mean the same thing.

Thankgod89:
I'm not mixing faith and salvation but emphasizing that faith leads to salvation.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)

Faith is God-given, not something we generate on our own. We believe in what God has done through Christ, and that faith leads to salvation.

Meanwhile James does not contradict Paul but highlights that true faith produces works as evidence of salvation:

you agree that faith leads to salvation
so which is the gift faith or salvation

gohf:
you agree that faith leads to salvation
so which is the gift faith or salvation

The entire process of salvation is God’s gift, which includes grace, faith, and being saved. Both salvation and faith are gifts from God.

malvisguy212:
very good. Bless you. James complement Paul work. Paul teaches that Abraham believe and James complement the teaching by saying Abraham don't just seat down and claim he believed, he show the evidence of his faith by taken a bold step to sacrifice his son Isaac.

James clearly writes that the works are an evidence of faith not an evidence that a man is saved.

Infact when James writes about faith, he like Paul and Peter say faith leads to salvation, James specifies the kind of faith

Jas.2.14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?

Except you are saying faith is salvation instead of faith leads to salvation.

Look the question is, "if salvation is a gift like some teach it, how can one work it out like Paul writes in Philippians 2:12.

Ephesians 2 mentions through faith not by works, and obviously Paul writes what he refers to as works as he usually does, circumcision and laws of Moses, of which our faith isn't based on. James clearly states the works that are a result of our faith that leads to salvation.

What did Jesus teach gives a man eternal life, that he believes hears and disobeys or that he hears and obeys doing God's will

Thankgod89:
The entire process of salvation is God’s gift, which includes grace, faith, and being saved. Both salvation and faith are gifts from God.

true it is God's gift, well you have gone from saying salvation is 100% a free gift to saying salvation is attainable.
I can understand us seeing salvation as a gift from God but God doesn't go about dashing salvation.

The rich man asked Jesus how to receive eternal life, Jesus told him to obey God's commands. When Zacchaues repented, offered restitution and obeyed Jesus teaching to give to the poor, that's when Jesus declared that salvation has come to him. Zacchaues didn't do those things for Jesus to come to his house, you can say Jesus accepting his invitation or going to his house was a gift but his decision to submit and obey brought salvation to him.

It is better to call salvation a reward, for the grace of God through Jesus gives us eternal life. While the reward for sin is death. But then we are rewarded only because God is merciful and forgives all our sins and doesn't count any of them but counts only our obedience to him. That is salvation as a result of God's gift

CodeTemplarr:
If your neighbour dash you free chicken, swallow it alive.

Lol

gohf:
It is better to call salvation a reward, for the grace of God through Jesus gives us eternal life. While the reward for sin is death. But then we are rewarded only because God is merciful and forgives all our sins and doesn't count any of them but counts only our obedience to him. That is salvation as a result of God's gift

No sir,salvation is not a reward,

Salvation in the Bible is consistently presented as a gift rather than a reward. A reward is something earned through effort, while a gift is given freely, often without merit. However, the response to that gift—faith, repentance, and obedience—demonstrates that a person has truly received it.

In the case of the rich young ruler (Mark 10:17-27), Jesus told him to obey God's commands, but when the man claimed to have done so, Jesus exposed his heart by asking him to sell everything and follow Him. The man walked away sorrowful, showing that his attachment to wealth was greater than his desire for eternal life. This highlights that salvation isn’t merely about external obedience but about surrender to Christ.

With Zacchaeus (Luke 19:1-10), his repentance and restitution were signs of his changed heart. But Jesus didn't say, "Today you have earned salvation." Instead, He declared, "Today salvation has come to this house." Zacchaeus' actions were the evidence of a transformed heart, not the means by which he achieved salvation.

Paul makes it clear in Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." Salvation is God's gift, but genuine faith will always produce obedience and good works (Ephesians 2:10, James 2:17).

So, while obedience is crucial, salvation itself is not a reward for obedience—it is a gift that leads to obedience.

Thankgod89:
No sir,salvation is not a reward,

Salvation in the Bible is consistently presented as a gift rather than a reward. A reward is something earned through effort, while a gift is given freely, often without merit. However, the response to that gift—faith, repentance, and obedience—demonstrates that a person has truly received it.

In the case of the rich young ruler (Mark 10:17-27), Jesus told him to obey God's commands, but when the man claimed to have done so, Jesus exposed his heart by asking him to sell everything and follow Him. The man walked away sorrowful, showing that his attachment to wealth was greater than his desire for eternal life. This highlights that salvation isn’t merely about external obedience but about surrender to Christ.

With Zacchaeus (Luke 19:1-10), his repentance and restitution were signs of his changed heart. But Jesus didn't say, "Today you have earned salvation." Instead, He declared, "Today salvation has come to this house." Zacchaeus' actions were the evidence of a transformed heart, not the means by which he achieved salvation.

Paul makes it clear in Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." Salvation is God's gift, but genuine faith will always produce obedience and good works (Ephesians 2:10, James 2:17).

So, while obedience is crucial, salvation itself is not a reward for obedience—it is a gift that leads to obedience.

now you believe that salvation is consistently presented as a gift but apart from your misunderstanding of Ephesians 2:8 you can't show anywhere where one is thought to be given salvation for doing nothing

Thankgod89:
No sir,salvation is not a reward,

Salvation in the Bible is consistently presented as a gift rather than a reward. A reward is something earned through effort, while a gift is given freely, often without merit. However, the response to that gift—faith, repentance, and obedience—demonstrates that a person has truly received it.

In the case of the rich young ruler (Mark 10:17-27), Jesus told him to obey God's commands, but when the man claimed to have done so, Jesus exposed his heart by asking him to sell everything and follow Him. The man walked away sorrowful, showing that his attachment to wealth was greater than his desire for eternal life. This highlights that salvation isn’t merely about external obedience but about surrender to Christ.

With Zacchaeus (Luke 19:1-10), his repentance and restitution were signs of his changed heart. But Jesus didn't say, "Today you have earned salvation." Instead, He declared, "Today salvation has come to this house." Zacchaeus' actions were the evidence of a transformed heart, not the means by which he achieved salvation.

Paul makes it clear in Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." Salvation is God's gift, but genuine faith will always produce obedience and good works (Ephesians 2:10, James 2:17).

So, while obedience is crucial, salvation itself is not a reward for obedience—it is a gift that leads to obedience.

you quoted Mark 10:17-27 and say that Jesus was exposing his heart by telling him the truth, it is either you didn't read the text and study it with the Holy Spirit and you are writing out what men have taught you. Is the purpose of telling us the truth to expose us or to save us?

What is written in Mark is that Jesus loved him and revealed more to him
Mark.10.21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Infact in other gospel accounts it was stated that it was the man who asked Jesus if there was anything he lacked.

This account wasn't the only time Jesus answered a question concerning eternal life and obedience to God. In Matthew 25 when Jesus speaks about the righteous going to eternal life he mentions the good works they did. In Matthew 7 when he rejects those who claim to know him, it is because they did not do the will of God. In that Mark 10 and Matthew 19, Jesus had to answer Peter concerning those of them that gave it all to follow Jesus and Jesus spike about their reward in heaven. Yes the giving wasn't for salvation and for eternal life, it was so the man would have a great reward in heaven seeing as he is going there having obeyed God. It is hard for the rich to enter the kingdom of God because it is hard for them to obey Jesus who teaches us to give, to forsake all.

But then you claim, "salvation isn’t merely about external obedience but about surrender to Christ." Please surrender is obedience, you can't surrender and live life how ever way you want, your surrender is shown by your obedience there is nothing like internal obedience that's a lie of the devil. Jesus said one said he will go but didn't external do anything but one refused but external went and Jesus asked which of the two obeyed, that's in Matt 21. I can still bring out more verses that debunk your believe that salvation is a free gift.

But for now, you quoted Luke 19:1-10
Then you wrote, "But Jesus didn't say, "Today you have earned salvation." Instead, He declared, "Today salvation has come to this house."

Luke.19.9 Jesus responded, "Salvation has come to this home today, for this man has shown himself to be a son of Abraham.

Look the fact that you say because it wasn't written earned can be thrown back at you, did Paul wrote salvation is a free gift?....

gohf:
you quoted Mark 10:17-27 and say that Jesus was exposing his heart by telling him the truth, it is either you didn't read the text and study it with the Holy Spirit and you are writing out what men have taught you. Is the purpose of telling us the truth to expose us or to save us?

What is written in Mark is that Jesus loved him and revealed more to him
Mark.10.21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Infact in other gospel accounts it was stated that it was the man who asked Jesus if there was anything he lacked.

This account wasn't the only time Jesus answered a question concerning eternal life and obedience to God. In Matthew 25 when Jesus speaks about the righteous going to eternal life he mentions the good works they did. In Matthew 7 when he rejects those who claim to know him, it is because they did not do the will of God. In that Mark 10 and Matthew 19, Jesus had to answer Peter concerning those of them that gave it all to follow Jesus and Jesus spike about their reward in heaven. Yes the giving wasn't for salvation and for eternal life, it was so the man would have a great reward in heaven seeing as he is going there having obeyed God. It is hard for the rich to enter the kingdom of God because it is hard for them to obey Jesus who teaches us to give, to forsake all.

But then you claim, "salvation isn’t merely about external obedience but about surrender to Christ." Please surrender is obedience, you can't surrender and live life how ever way you want, your surrender is shown by your obedience there is nothing like internal obedience that's a lie of the devil. Jesus said one said he will go but didn't external do anything but one refused but external went and Jesus asked which of the two obeyed, that's in Matt 21. I can still bring out more verses that debunk your believe that salvation is a free gift.

But for now, you quoted Luke 19:1-10
Then you wrote, "But Jesus didn't say, "Today you have earned salvation." Instead, He declared, "Today salvation has come to this house."

Luke.19.9 Jesus responded, "Salvation has come to this home today, for this man has shown himself to be a son of Abraham.

Look the fact that you say because it wasn't written earned can be thrown back at you, did Paul wrote salvation is a free gift?....

If the Holy Spirit has revealed to you that salvation is a reward, who am I to question your claim? However, the Scriptures are clear, and I believe there is no hidden interpretation. One principle I always uphold in biblical discussions is to never say what the Bible does not say.

Your explanation is incorrect, yet you continue to insist that you are right.

Here are my points from Mark 10:17-27: The man walked away sorrowful, revealing that his attachment to wealth was greater than his desire for eternal life. This emphasizes that salvation is not merely about external obedience but about full surrender to Christ.

Now, consider the disciples’ reaction and Jesus’ response in verses 26-27:

"[26] And they were astonished beyond measure, saying among themselves, ‘Who then can be saved?’ [27] But Jesus, looking at them, said, ‘With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.’"

If salvation were simply a reward for good works or obedience, why didn’t Jesus say so? Instead, He declared that salvation is impossible for man to attain on his own. This proves that salvation is not something we earn—it is only possible with God’s help because it is a free gift.

Thankgod89:
It seems like you want to emphasize your point even when the Bible itself is silent on the matter. You can’t expect me to ignore the original language of the Bible and still accept your interpretation.

I have six different Bible translations, and only the KJV uses "everlasting life" in John 3:16, while the others say "eternal life." Are you suggesting that the translators who used "eternal life" got it wrong or weren’t good students of the Bible?

My brother, there is no hidden meaning in Scripture—"eternal life" and "everlasting life" mean the same thing.

well like I said I don't want to go deep into it. Thanks

delkuf:
well like I said I don't want to go deep into it. Thanks

Go deep if you're sure of what you said.
You know nothing yet you want to argue!

delkuf:
well like I said I don't want to go deep into it. Thanks

I’d appreciate it if you could dive deeper so others can learn—especially if you have solid points to share.

Thankgod89:
I’d appreciate it if you could dive deeper so others can learn—especially if you have solid points to share.

you just said you have six translator of the Bible, won't it be waste of time

MaxInDHouse:
Go deep if you're sure of what you said.
You know nothing yet you want to argue!

am not in competition with anyone to prove anything. So all this your agitation will not work with me oooooo

@gohf salvation is not a reward oooooo. Did you worked for it. It is a gift. Something we did not work for. We are not rewarded with salvation.

delkuf:
you just said you have six translator of the Bible, won't it be waste of time

When I first saw your comment about everlasting life being different from eternal life, I was surprised and thought, "Wow! This is something new to learn." But after checking all the translations I have at home, I realized both terms are used interchangeably. What concerns me, though, is when you told me to disregard the Greek interpretation.

My brother, if you're confident in your understanding, please explain it to us here. But if not, kindly acknowledge that your initial perspective on the subject was mistaken.

Thankgod89:
When I first saw your comment about everlasting life being different from eternal life, I was surprised and thought, "Wow! This is something new to learn." But after checking all the translations I have at home, I realized both terms are used interchangeably. What concerns me, though, is when you told me to disregard the Greek interpretation.

My brother, if you're confident in your understanding, please explain it to us here. But if not, kindly acknowledge that your initial perspective on the subject was mistaken.

ok open another thread. You know brother gohf open with a different message so that we won't look derailing this thread, open another thread tag me and I will explain more there.

Thankgod89:
When I first saw your comment about everlasting life being different from eternal life, I was surprised and thought, "Wow! This is something new to learn." But after checking all the translations I have at home, I realized both terms are used interchangeably. What concerns me, though, is when you told me to disregard the Greek interpretation.

My brother, if you're confident in your understanding, please explain it to us here. But if not, kindly acknowledge that your initial perspective on the subject was mistaken.

are you going to open another thread. Let me know

delkuf:
are you going to open another thread. Let me know

Kindly open it sir

Thankgod89:
Kindly open it sir

have the thread. Kindly go through it and ask any questions

delkuf:
am not in competition with anyone to prove anything. So all this your agitation will not work with me oooooo

You're not in competition yet you keep quoting and trying to correct people!

Thankgod89:
No sir,salvation is not a reward.

People gets paid for a job well done so if you do a good job and your employer is happy he rewards you handsomely so let's say we served God throughout our life for 100 years if He is to reward us regarding the service rendered it should be 100-500 years reward but God doesn't reward people who served Him that is for those who showed love or care for His servants (worshipers) He can make such ones super rich or live longer than expected as a pay back for the favour they showed to his servants! Matthew 10:40-42
For His worshipers God GIVES them an award which nobody can get from Him except His loyal worshipers that's why Paul said:

For the WAGES sin PAYS is death, but the GIFT God gives is EVERLASTING LIFE by Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

This means all evildoers will be paid what they deserves which is DEATH but as for God's own worshipers He doesn't pay them but awards them.

Many unbelievers and evildoers have done good to God's people one way or another in the past so they will surely be rewarded for any good they do to God's people no matter how small it is but for being unbelievers or evildoers they will get what they deserves which is death!

MaxInDHouse:
You're not in competition yet you keep quoting and trying to correct people!

we are correct you, we destroying your works because you work for your master the devil

delkuf:
we are correct you, we destroying your works because you work for your master the devil

Yet you are not in a competition.

MaxInDHouse:
Yet you are not in a competition.

is it a competition to you

delkuf:
is it a competition to you

If it's not a competition you supposed to face your God while i face mine after all my God differ from yours and there is freedom of speech, expression and worship so instead of quoting each other we can easily go our separate ways but if you continue quoting me then don't tell me not to quote you o!