₦airaland Forum

delkuf:
though I don't like chatting with you because you keep asking questions but I will reply this. After he showed himself to the disciples and many others for many days he ascended again back to heaven and he his at the right hand of the the throne of God

So What did Jesus do in heaven when he initially went to heaven before he came back according to you?

Truthseeker10:
So What did Jesus do in heaven when he initially went to heaven before he came back according to you?

didn't you read through. That is why I don't chatting with you because of this unnecessary questions

delkuf:
didn't you read through. That is why I don't chatting with you because of this unnecessary questions

But you claim he went to heaven before showing himself to the disciples. What did he go and do in heaven before coming back to show himself to his disciples?

delkuf:
between when Mary wanted yo touch Jesus and when he told Thomas to touch his hand anf side something happened. I like the fact that you said, Jesus told Mary not to embrace him because he has not yet ascended to the Father and release the Holy Ghost. So Jesus ascended to the Father in heaven to bring down the Holy Ghost before he appeared to the disciples because the first he did when he appeared to the disciples was that he breathed on them and said receive the Holy Ghost(John 20:20-23). So because the Lord Jesus ascended to the Father in heaven to bring down the Holy Ghost, he also decended and released the Holy Ghost to the disciples and to those that believe. My brother this is a whole new journey. It is the ascension of the Lord Jesus to the Father in heaven after his resurrection and his descending back to this world that give us eternal life. There are lots of things concerning this.

Sir.
That's not how the story went.
Okay, let's look at it like this.
1. When Jesus breathed on his disciples and said "receive the holy spirit". It was a prophetic statement because Thomas was excluded. Can we say Thomas did not receive the Holy spirit?

2. Why did I say Jesus statement was prophetic?
Just like Jesus said to his disciples in Mark 16:14-20 that the disciples should go around the world and preached the gospel and they went. But truly we know that that was not immediate but prophetic because the same Jesus in Acts 1 and 2 that the disciples tarried in Jerusalem until they received the holy spirit and then they went out to preach.

Sir, one thing we must know is that the account of each scripture writers differ and their timing should be considered.

2. Same with Luke's account and Act and Paul's account in Galatians.
According to Luke in Acts 9:18-20, Paul began to preach after he was converted by Ananias. But according to Paul, in Galatians 1: 16-17, :after his conversation, he went to Arabia and then returned back to Damascus and started ministering.
So, we need to understand each writers angle.

Thanks.

immaculatesense:
Sir.
That's not how the story went.
Okay, let's look at it like this.
1. When Jesus breathed on his disciples and said "receive the holy spirit". It was a prophetic statement because Thomas was excluded. Can we say Thomas did not receive the Holy spirit?

2. Why did I say Jesus statement was prophetic?

let look at John 6:51, " I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which i will give for the life of the world". Jesus said he is the living bread which came down from heaven. You yourself said he ascended to heaven to bring the Holy Spirit. It was part of what you wrote. If he will give the Holy Spirit to the disciples, he must have ascended to heaven and decended back to earth. You said Jesus went to the Father after he resurrected to bring the Holy Spirit, so if he went to the Father in heaven, he will also decend back to earth from heaven.


Thomas not being among the disciples when Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to the disciples, after the Lord Jesus left this world did we really hear of him again. Even the fact that he doubted the Lord Jesus that has render him someone of no importance.

Truthseeker10:
But you claim he went to heaven before showing himself to the disciples. What did he go and do in heaven before coming back to show himself to his disciples?

Abeg allow this man to ROLL with those having the same belief like him in his own Christ nah!

delkuf:
let look at John 6:51, " I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which i will give for the life of the world". Jesus said he is the living bread which came down from heaven. You yourself said he ascended to heaven to bring the Holy Spirit. It was part of what you wrote. If he will give the Holy Spirit to the disciples, he must have ascended to heaven and decended back to earth. You said Jesus went to the Father after he resurrected to bring the Holy Spirit, so if he went to the Father in heaven, he will also decend back to earth from heaven.


Thomas not being among the disciples when Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to the disciples, after the Lord Jesus left this world did we really hear of him again. Even the fact that he doubted the Lord Jesus that has render him someone of no importance.

Sir.
1. Same Jesus said if he did not go to the Father, the holy spirit will not come. Doesn't that mean that Jesus ascended to heaven and then the Holy spirit came? John 16:7

2. Are you saying we didn't hear of Thomas again because he didn't receive the holy spirit or because he doubted Jesus? I don't think that is what you meant sir.
Can you tell me out of the eleven why we didn't hear of Matthias, Bathelomew, Thaddeus, Simon the Zealot and even Andrew the brother of Peter and one of the four closest disciples of Jesus when he was with them. Why didn't we hear of these people again throughout scriptures after Jesus ascension. Is it that they did something wrong just like Thomas?

Thanks

immaculatesense:
Sir.
1. Same Jesus said if he did not go to the Father, the holy spirit will not come. Doesn't that mean that Jesus ascended to heaven and then the Holy spirit came? John 16:7

2. Are you saying we didn't hear of Thomas again because he didn't receive the holy spirit or because he doubted Jesus? I don't think that is what you meant sir.
Can you tell me out of the eleven why we didn't hear of Matthias, Bathelomew, Thaddeus, Simon the Zealot and even Andrew the brother of Peter and one of the four closest disciples of Jesus when he was with them. Why didn't we hear of these people again throughout scriptures after Jesus ascension. Is it that they did something wrong just like Thomas?

Thanks

you are saying what am I am saying. The Lord Jesus went to the Father in heaven after he resurrected from death and he decended from heaven with eternal life. And eternal life comes the Holy Spirit. This is what have been saying.


I can't much about other disciples but Thomas was his own problem because he doubted the Lord Jesus. The fact that he doubted the core foundation of our salvation took him out of the picture. Even if he received the Holy Spirit, he will still not be relevant. You are more important than Thomas. Between you that didn't see the Lord Jesus live and believe him and Thomas that eat with Jesus sleep with him and even hear him teach not reading about him, who do you think God will appreciate more. So don't let focused on Thomas.

If you have more questions to ask about what will are discussing, you can ask.

delkuf:
you are saying what am I am saying. The Lord Jesus went to the Father in heaven after he resurrected from death and he decended from heaven with eternal life. And eternal life comes the Holy Spirit. This is what have been saying.


I can't much about other disciples but Thomas was his own problem because he doubted the Lord Jesus. The fact that he doubted the core foundation of our salvation took him out of the picture. Even if he received the Holy Spirit, he will still not be relevant. You are more important than Thomas. Between you that didn't see the Lord Jesus live and believe him and Thomas that eat with Jesus sleep with him and even hear him teach not reading about him, who do you think God will appreciate more. So don't let focused on Thomas.

If you have more questions to ask about what will are discussing, you can ask.

Since we both agreed that Jesus only ascended once and descended once. There is no longer issues. That was the major discussion and we have both agreed on that.

If you say we are better than Thomas, I do not think that was what Jesus meant. Jesus only said "You saw me and you believe, blessed are those who did not see me but believe". He did not say "more blessed than you (Thomas)".
And whereas Thomas name will be numbered among the foundation of the New Jerusalem not us and also he will sit on one of the twelve thrones with other apostles like Jesus promised, not us.
All the twelve are all fortunate to be pioneers of the gospel of Christ. They were not perfect humans (not even Peter who denied Jesus three times). But they will all be rewarded by Christ at his coming.
Research even shows the Thomas was the first among the Apostles to minister in Africa and the he even died in Africa. (I am not holding it as fact since it is not explicitly in the scriptures about his missionary journey) But I believe none of the apostles were useless even those records may not be kept or seen of them.

Thanks

delkuf:
I would like to ask to ask, after the death of the Lord Jesus when he resurrected, he told Mary mardalene in John 20:17
"Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to your brethren, snd say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God".
Jesus told Mary that he ascend to his Father and our Father, my God and your God. My question now is, WHEN THE LORD JESUS ASCENDED DID HE DECEND TO EARTH AGAIN. Did he came back to earth

maxishouse is correct touch me mean don't cling to me. Jesus does not want anyone to be emotionally attached to his physical presence because his stay on earth would be temporary, Check the Greek word that was used there.
It is only after Jesus return when he recive the church and present them to his Father as his bride would he physically remain with the church forever then we cling to him.

immaculatesense:
Since we both agreed that Jesus only ascended once and descended once. There is no longer issues. That was the major discussion and we have both agreed on that.

If you say we are better than Thomas, I do not think that was what Jesus meant. Jesus only said "You saw me and you believe, blessed are those who did not see me but believe". He did not say "more blessed than you (Thomas)".
And whereas Thomas name will be numbered among the foundation of the New Jerusalem not us and also he will sit on one of the twelve thrones with other apostles like Jesus promised, not us.
All the twelve are all fortunate to be pioneers of the gospel of Christ. They were not perfect humans (not even Peter who denied Jesus three times). But they will all be rewarded by Christ at his coming.
Research even shows the Thomas was the first among the Apostles to minister in Africa and the he even died in Africa. (I am not holding it as fact since it is not explicitly in the scriptures about his missionary journey) But I believe none of the apostles were useless even those records may not be kept or seen of them.

Thanks

I didn't say Jesus said we are more blessed than him. What I said trying to say was that muss it when he doubted the Lord Jesus and he became irrelevant afterwards. He wasn't even there when Jesus appeared to the disciples. So I wanted not to focus too much on him. You were bringing him up frequently. So I trying to tell you that the lack of faith of Thomas took him out of the picture. What is faith. Faith is believing without seeing. But Thomas wanted to see before he believed. Thomas messed up.

delkuf:
I didn't say Jesus said we are more blessed than him. What I said trying to say was that muss it when he doubted the Lord Jesus and he became irrelevant afterwards. He wasn't even there when Jesus appeared to the disciples. So I wanted not to focus too much on him. You were bringing him up frequently. So I trying to tell you that the lack of faith of Thomas took him out of the picture. What is faith. Faith is believing without seeing. But Thomas wanted to see before he believed. Thomas messed up.

Great sir. I understand your point.
My view on that is that we all do mess up sometimes. Sometimes we show a lack of faith when we pass through situations that seems overwhelming to us. It is not an excuse for us or for Thomas. My point is that we are just humans and sometimes we have doubts even now. But thank God who is always patient with us and knows that we are just humans and he treats us with so much love that even when we are in that state of doubt and faithlessness, he shows up in his compassion and built our faith up just like he did to Thomas. Praise God.

Thanks.

immaculatesense:
Great sir. I understand your point.
My view on that is that we all do mess up sometimes. Sometimes we show a lack of faith when we pass through situations that seems overwhelming to us. It is not an excuse for us or for Thomas. My point is that we are just humans and sometimes we have doubts even now. But thank God who is always patient with us and knows that we are just humans and he treats us with so much love that even when we are in that state of doubt and faithlessness, he shows up in his compassion and built our faith up just like he did to Thomas. Praise God.

Thanks.

Good morning, God will help us. Have a good day

delkuf:
Good morning, God will help us. Have a good day

Amen sir.