₦airaland Forum

Acidosis:
The only way out is to keep churning out more doctors until the international market becomes over-saturated and extremely competitive for newbies. You can ask India what they did to tech sector. Too many people are now applying to jobs that don't exist.

You people should stop hoarding medical knowledge at the detriment of people's health. People want to be doctor, you failed to admit them, failed to build new training grounds, yet complain every four market days about shortage of doctors.

They can't take too many docs cos you they don't have the manpower, equipments and housing to manage it. I remember those days of med school. During our obstetric posting, we took deliveries. You can imagine up to 20 med students, 10 nursing students, 2 residents and 1 consultant attending to a birth. I felt for the woman. It looked like giving birth in a stadium with the whole world gawking at her privates

jaephoenix:
They can't take too many docs cos you they don't have the manpower, equipments and housing to manage it. I remember those days of med school. During our obstetric posting, we took deliveries. You can imagine up to 20 med students, 10 nursing students, 2 residents and 1 consultant attending to a birth. I felt for the woman. It looked like giving birth in a stadium with the whole world gawking at her privates

...which is why we need to invest more in expanding and building new tertiary hospitals. It's a demand and supply issue.

Tell the stupid man to pay the doctors and other health care workers their 25% Arears increment and produce a minimum wage consequential adjustment for them first.

Ha ba!


Wale Edun and this Ali Pate are wicked set of people!

Nigeria medical professionals will still move abroad for greeners pastures in as much fg in Nigeria isn’t ready to pay them well

Our newspapers should stop all these kind reports. You loose 366m but gets almost 20bn.
When we hear or diaspora returns is it ghosts that are sending the money home?
Can Nigeria survive without the contribution of the diaspora?

You don't want them to go to countries where their services are appreciated, valued and where their lives are safe?

And shame no catch your association

Let's be clear. It's not a problem of the fg or government. It's just the difference in the economy. There's nothing on earth that would make Nigeria what we earn in USA, Europe. So as long as the difference is there, people will still move. Our focus should be on training more personnel. Not every one will be moved to migrate

press9jatv:
Nigeria medical professionals will still move abroad for greeners pastures in as much fg in Nigeria isn’t ready to pay them well

The issue is multifaceted, and not simply cheap politics of Tinubu, Atiku or Obi.

Nigeria is a low income economy and will certainly still struggle to keep the doctors. U.K a more advanced economy is still struggling to keep its medical doctors as many of the doctors are also fleeing to Australia, Canada and U.S for better pay.

There is no magic bullet approach, but the closest is to admit more medical students, graduate more medical students and "improve" the wages, irrespective of that wage increase, it is almost impossible to pay competitively with the poaching countries. The medium and long term approach is to build more medical schools.

bareal:
And to achieve this, they must make the medical schools readily affordable for an average home. We are in for a long ride!

to be sincere, medical schools are heavily subsidised. There are also student loans now. Government can also provide grants to students, especially from the core North.

DataDoc:
According to MDCN CEO, Dr. Fatima Kyari, Nigeria currently has capacity to produce 7,000+ doctors annually, up from 5,000+ as at last year. Same last year, 4,000 doctors left.

So, increase capacity to produce more and then motivate those that have not left so they won't leave.

For now, the part of "motivation" is just talk and no action.

So, people will still leave .

The country needs to keep expanding that capacity. If it produces 5000 graduates and 4000 left, it may imply a net addition of 1,000 doctors.

unfortunately may also explore the international angle to combat the mass exodus with the enforcement of UNited Nations/WHO expectations of certain countries not recruiting medical doctors graduates from challenged countries like Nigeria

Manchi25:
Let's be clear. It's not a problem of the fg or government. It's just the difference in the economy. There's nothing on earth that would make Nigeria what we earn in USA, Europe. So as long as the difference is there, people will still move. Our focus should be on training more personnel. Not every one will be moved to migrate

naira has been devalued and it will continue to fall apart

BlueStripper:
Some of these people just talk without reasoning. I agree that you hate this government, but why publicizing stupid information to incite the people against the Government or make them feel worse about their country?

Why didn't you bother to research on how much Nigeria has made from diaspora remittance?

There are countries in South America where DR amounts to %37 of their GDP. Chinese doctors are everywhere in the world, same with American Doctors, so stop this nonsense please.

Thank you for saying what needs to be said. Given how much all of those diaspora doctors must be sending back in remittances, their educations must be returning by far the highest yields on any investment ever made by a Nigerian government.

If anything, Nigeria should be training and exporting many times more doctors, as foreign remittances from such highly educated professionals already represents the 2nd biggest source of export income after oil - about $20 billion in the last year alone.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/BX.TRF.PWKR.DT.GD.ZS?locations=NG
https://african.business/2024/08/african-banker/nigeria-relies-on-diaspora-remittances-for-economic-recovery

We still have many doctors in Nigeria... Atleast, Dr Sid and Small Doctor are part of those still in Nigeria

This is just medicine, what about other profession?

BlueStripper:
Some of these people just talk without reasoning. I agree that you hate this government, but why publicizing stupid information to incite the people against the Government or make them feel worse about their country?

Why didn't you bother to research on how much Nigeria has made from diaspora remittance?

There are countries in South America where DR amounts to %37 of their GDP. Chinese doctors are everywhere in the world, same with American Doctors, so stop this nonsense please.

Are you really normal or what?
Why are you focusing on the person who published the news instead of the crazy man that said that rubbish?
This madness about gagging people/the media needs to stop.

chinchum:
The country needs to keep expanding that capacity. If it produces 5000 graduates and 4000 left, it may imply a net addition of 1,000 doctors.

unfortunately may also explore the international angle to combat the mass exodus with the enforcement of UNited Nations/WHO expectations of certain countries not recruiting medical doctors graduates from challenged countries like Nigeria

And how would such protectionist thinking help either the doctors themselves, their many dependents whose lives could be improved through foreign remittances, or the rest of the Nigerian economy which benefits when all of those dependents spend that foreign income domestically?

This attitude is just as wrong-headed as the one we're currently seeing in the USA with Trump. No country ever made its way to a high standard of living by raising barriers to the flow of capital (including human capital).

omohayek:
And how would such protectionist thinking help either the doctors themselves, their many dependents whose lives could be improved through foreign remittances, or the rest of the Nigerian economy which benefits when all of those dependents spend that foreign income domestically?

This attitude is just as wrong-headed as the one we're currently seeing in the USA with Trump. No country ever made its way to a high standard of living by raising barriers to the flow of capital (including human capital).

it is a double edged sword. Foreign remittances are not only made by Nigerian medical doctors or nurses diasporans. A bond payment or about a minimum pegged amount of service period could be required. I suggest government making tuition almost free as well. their foreign counterparts in countries they are moving to will have high student loan debt.

CodeTemplarr:
$21,000 to train a doctor? How?

I'm wondering the same thing

Acidosis:
The only way out is to keep churning out more doctors until the international market becomes over-saturated and extremely competitive for newbies. You can ask India what they did to tech sector. Too many people are now applying to jobs that don't exist.

You people should stop hoarding medical knowledge at the detriment of people's health. People want to be doctor, you failed to admit them, failed to build new training grounds, yet complain every four market days about shortage of doctors.

unfortunately, standards to admit medical courses must remain high. If you lower standards, just anybody anyhow will become a just anyhow doctor, nurse, pharmacist , lab scientists, physiotherapist etc. Do you want to put your life or the lives of your I'll relatives and loved ones in the hands of these kind of people?

chinchum:
it is a double edged sword. Foreign remittances are not only made by Nigerian medical doctors or nurses diasporans.

Yes, I know that quite well from personal experience as someone outside those professions who was regularly sending USD back home.

A bond payment or about a minimum pegged amount of service period could be required. I suggest government making tuition almost free as well. their foreign counterparts in countries they are moving to will have high student loan debt.

Instead of directly subsiding the fees of medical students, a better system would be for the government to extend them student loans, which could be gradually forgiven after graduation based on a set term of public service (e.g. 7 years at teaching hospitals). That would

1. Deal with all the complaints about doctors taking advantage of FG generousity.
2. Provide incentives for at least a few to stick around after graduating.
3. Still leave the way clear for those who want to go abroad to do so.

The fact that medical students could now be charged for their education would also provide domestic universities with the funds to expand the number of students they can admit into their medical schools. With a big enough expansion, the pools of domestic and expatriate doctors could expand simultaneously.

TLDR: There are sensible ways to deal with Nigeria's medical professional issues without resorting to travel bans or endlessly criticising diasporean professionals.

Our President, ministers and other goes abroad for medical treatment. Nigerian doctors want to share in the medical bills being paid abroad, that is why they are moving abroad.

Let our officials starts using the local hospital to know what are lacking in these hospitals then our doctors will be will to stay.

DrFunmisticGlow:
unfortunately, standards to admit medical courses must remain high. If you lower standards, just anybody anyhow will become a just anyhow doctor, nurse, pharmacist , lab scientists, physiotherapist etc. Do you want to put your life or the lives of your I'll relatives and loved ones in the hands of these kind of people?

This "standards" talk is the same line of argument that is always used by any group looking to restrict competition in their line of business. Isn't that what bodies like medical boards are for?

Just graduating from a school with "medical" in its name doesn't grant anyone license to practice medicine, and for most Nigerians, at present the alternative to your favored few "high standards" doctors are roadside peddlers of "patent" medicine quackery, native "doctors", religious conmen masquerading as "prophets", etc. Even medical school dropouts would be preferable to all of these.

omohayek:
Yes, I know that quite well from personal experience as someone outside those professions who was regularly sending USD back home.


Instead of directly subsiding the fees of medical students, a better system would be for the government to extend them student loans, which could be gradually forgiven after graduation based on a set term of public service (e.g. 7 years at teaching hospitals). That would

1. Deal with all the complaints about doctors taking advantage of FG generousity.
2. Provide incentives for at least a few to stick around after graduating.
3. Still leave the way clear for those who want to go abroad to do so.

The fact that medical students could now be charged for their education would also provide domestic universities with the funds to expand the number of students they can admit into their medical schools. With a big enough expansion, the pools of domestic and expatriate doctors could expand simultaneously.

TLDR: There are sensible ways to deal with Nigeria's medical professional issues without resorting to travel bans or endlessly criticising diasporean professionals.

There is an active student loan by the current government. Heavy medical school fees has a tendency to be counter productive when we need to produce more graduates. The barriers to entrant must be lifted not added.

chinchum:
At least 5,000 new doctors may have to be produced yearly to manage the tide.

It is crazy, because i doubt Nigeria has more than 50 medical schools. Each medical school need to churn out average of 100 graduates yearly.

Manage which tide

The most experienced/Brilliant doctors have left so nobody is actually training all the new doctors you churn out.
So, your quantity jump is without quality.

Also, also, half of the new doctors you're producing have written or about to write their ielts before they even go for service. They are barely paying attention to whatever they're doing cos they have important exams to focus on

omohayek:
This "standards" talk is the same line of argument that is always used by any group looking to restrict competition in their line of business. Isn't that what bodies like medical boards are for?

Just graduating from a school with "medical" in its name doesn't grant anyone license to practice medicine, and for most Nigerians, at present the alternative to your favored few "high standards" doctors are roadside peddlers of "patent" medicine quackery, native "doctors", religious conmen masquerading as "prophets", etc. Even medical school dropouts would be preferable to all of these.

But med school dropouts can still do a lot of damage.

They need to train more medical students, I agree, but those that want to be train must work hard to prove themselves. SIMPLE!!

chinchum:
At least 5,000 new doctors may have to be produced yearly to manage the tide.

It is crazy, because i doubt Nigeria has more than 50 medical schools. Each medical school need to churn out average of 100 graduates yearly.

How many leave to be trained overseas and come back?

abdsamad:

Manage which tide

The most experienced/Brilliant doctors have left so nobody is actually training all the new doctors you churn out.
So, your quantity jump is without quality.

Also, also, half of the new doctors you're producing have written or about to write their ielts before they even go for service. They are barely paying attention to whatever they're doing cos they have important exams to focus on

Exactly. Many of my med school teachers have gone abroad, mostly only those who are trapped by family or responsibilities that stay here.

Lie, 16,000 hard currency earning individuals that will be send FX back home to not only support friends and family but also the Nigerian economy.

Pronto

DrFunmisticGlow:
unfortunately, standards to admit medical courses must remain high. If you lower standards, just anybody anyhow will become a just anyhow doctor, nurse, pharmacist , lab scientists, physiotherapist etc. Do you want to put your life or the lives of your I'll relatives and loved ones in the hands of these kind of people?

I understand your view. Standards must be high, but I’d like to believe there are many people who could easily meet these standards yet still didn’t gain admission. Also, while I get your position, it could easily come across as ‘blaming’ the learners rather than the teachers. I think the teaching side has failed more people than their own intellect ever did.

A bad doctor puts lives at risk, sure, but we also have engineers building bridges that carry tens of thousands daily. We have pilots and others in high-stakes jobs, yet they manage to contribute to society without much fuss about shortage. It all boils down to training and retraining.

In many Western countries, nurses are already being trained to take on more tasking roles like prescription. Nurses prescribe medications, not just OTC, but the whole. They are starting to realise that hoarding certain knowledge for a select group, who are never enough to go around, is actually killing more people than it’s saving. We just have to really up our game tbh.

Acidosis:
Here’s a polished and grammatically correct version of your thoughts, completed with a natural flow:
I understand your view. Standards must be high, but I’d like to believe there are many people who could easily meet these standards yet still didn’t gain admission. Also, while I get your position, it could easily come across as ‘blaming’ the learners rather than the teachers. I think the teaching side has failed more people than their own intellect ever did.

A bad doctor puts lives at risk, sure, but we also have engineers building bridges that carry tens of thousands daily. We have pilots and others in high-stakes jobs, yet they manage to contribute to society without much fuss about shortage. It all boils down to training and retraining.

In many Western countries, nurses are already being trained to take on more tasking roles like prescription. Nurses prescribe medications, not just OTC, but the whole. They are starting to realise that hoarding certain knowledge for a select group, who are never enough to go around, is actually killing more people than it’s saving.

I like your salient points, and agree. I've never agreed with hoarding information to an elite few. However, brain drain is not limited to medicals alone, engineers and techs are still leaving. The brightest of the brightest as you all like to say.

NickHoward:
How many leave to be trained overseas and come back?

Show me where i mentioned that

abdsamad:

Manage which tide

The most experienced/Brilliant doctors have left so nobody is actually training all the new doctors you churn out.
So, your quantity jump is without quality.

Also, also, half of the new doctors you're producing have written or about to write their ielts before they even go for service. They are barely paying attention to whatever they're doing cos they have important exams to focus on

As much as are leaving, some are staying. While quality is debatable, quantity is needed at this point