₦airaland Forum

Since having discussions on the issue of the canon of the bible and who decided it can be very problematic with some people being incapable to be fair about the issue, I have decided to have this discussion with an AI bot to see how it goes.

Below are screenshots of the conversation.

continued.

To be continued

MiddleDimension:
➜Since having discussions on the issue of the canon of the bible and who decided it can be very problematic with some people being incapable to be fair about the issue, I have decided to have this discussion with an AI bot to see how it goes. Below are screenshots of the conversation.

Huh? 😏😏😏

Kobojunkie:
Huh? 😏😏😏

Yes, the AI bot can considerably less bias than humans who have got an agenda and will think admitting the other person's position, is would mean losing face.

So, see the reply it gave for the question ''did humans decide which book should and sblhould not be in the bible.

It asnwered in one word ''yes''!

MiddleDimension:
➜Yes, the AI bot can considerably less bias than humans who have got an agenda and will think admitting the other person's position, is would mean losing face. So, see the reply it gave for the question ''did humans decide which book should and sblhould not be in the bible. It asnwered in one word ''yes''!

But before AI technology, the world has always known that the decisions were made by humans. So, why did the need for an AI guarantee? 🤔

By the way, did you equally consider here that AI was built by humans, implying that the responses it fed you were likely based on preprogrammed ideas fed to it? 🤔

Kobojunkie:
But before AI technology, the world has always known that the decisions were made by humans. So, why did the need for an AI guarantee? 🤔

By the way, did you equally consider here that AI was built by humans, implying that the responses it fed you were likely based on preprogrammed ideas fed to it? 🤔

No, before AI and even after AI, many christians especially pentecostals and protestants never believed and infact, many of them will be shocked when you tell them that men in the catholic church decided the canon, which book should make up the bible, and which book should not be included in the bible. I have had many experience with such people. Infact, when you search this thread, especially the older ones, you will confirm what I just said.

The second point you raised, is a vary fair point. But having used Meta AI and Chat GPT for a while, I can tell you that ita flaw is not very much in the knowledge it can provide (although, there are mistakes there, but as soon as it points it out especialluly with evidence, it quickly admits its miatake) but it is in how politically correct it can be.

Also, the machine is not a storage device, so it is not giving you garbage in garbage out. It is trained on how to have a conversation like humans would, as can be seen in how our discussion went.

So, yes, it is not flawless, but to a great extent, you can have a discussion with it, and in many casses and on many topics, it is far more objective than most people.

MiddleDimension:
➜No, before AI and even after AI, many christians especially pentecostals and protestants never believed and infact, many of them will be shocked when you tell them that men in the catholic church decided the canon, which book should make up the bible, and which book should not be included in the bible. I have had many experience with such people. Infact, when you search this thread, especially the older ones, you will confirm what I just said.
➜ The second point you raised, is a vary fair point. But having used Meta AI and Chat GPT for a while, I can tell you that ita flaw is not very much in the knowledge it can provide (although, there are mistakes there, but as soon as it points it out especialluly with evidence, it quickly admits its miatake) but it is in how politically correct it can be.
➜ Also, the machine is not a storage device, so it is not giving you garbage in garbage out. It is trained on how to have a conversation like humans would, as can be seen in how our discussion went. So, yes, it is not flawless, but to a great extent, you can have a discussion with it, and in many casses and on many topics, it is far more objective than most people.

1. Ah! Your goal has been to convince a gullible, blind individual of their gullibility? For what purpose exactly?

2. If asked your AI tool whether fallen angels are demons, what response would it give you?

3. I am thinking it is a great tool for people like having discussions with AI...not my thing, really.

Kobojunkie:
1. Ah! Your goal has been to convince a gullible, blind individual of their gullibility? For what purpose exactly?

2. If asked your AI tool whether fallen angels are demons, what response would it give you?

3. I am thinking it is a great tool for people like having discussions with AI...not my thing, really.

When I asked it that question, this is what it says: ''In many religious traditions, including Christianity, fallen angels are often associated with demons. According to some interpretations, fallen angels are heavenly beings who rebelled against God's will and were cast out of heaven. These fallen angels are then seen as demons or unclean spirits that roam the world, often seeking to lead humans astray or cause harm.

In biblical accounts, figures like Satan or Lucifer are sometimes described as a fallen angel, and his followers are referred to as demons or unclean spirits. However, different traditions and interpretations may have varying understandings of the nature and role of fallen angels and demons.''

Kobojunkie:
1. Ah! Your goal has been to convince a gullible, blind individual of their gullibility? For what purpose exactly?

2. If asked your AI tool whether fallen angels are demons, what response would it give you?

3. I am thinking it is a great tool for people like having discussions with AI...not my thing, really.

Have you always agreed the catholics gave the world the bible?

MiddleDimension:
➜When I asked it that question, this is what it says: ''In many religious traditions, including Christianity, fallen angels are often associated with demons. According to some interpretations, fallen angels are heavenly beings who rebelled against God's will and were cast out of heaven. These fallen angels are then seen as demons or unclean spirits that roam the world, often seeking to lead humans astray or cause harm.
➜ In biblical accounts, figures like Satan or Lucifer are sometimes described as a fallen angel,
➜ and his followers are referred to as demons or unclean spirits.
➜ However, different traditions and interpretations may have varying understandings of the nature and role of fallen angels and demons.''

1. These ideas have no Scriptural—Biblical—roots to them, though.

2. Where in Scripture did you draw this conclusion of yours from?

3. Wrong! This is not at all Biblical.

4. Fallen angels are not demons and demons are not fallen angels. This is the stance of Scripture.

MiddleDimension:
✓ Have you always agreed the catholics gave the world the bible?

The Catholic Church courtesy of Rome, attempted a hijacking of a movement that began in Judah, before its destruction, for political and material gain. The Catholics did not give the world the books contained in the collection referred to as the Bible since the books were originally written by Israelites. Rather, the Catholics attempted to colonize the noise created around the movement, to make it all their own.

Kobojunkie:
1. These ideas have no Scriptural—Biblical—roots to them, though.

2. Where in Scripture did you draw this conclusion of yours from?

3. Wrong! This is not at all Biblical.

4. Fallen angels are not demons and demons are not fallen angels. This is the stance of Scripture.

That's not my opinion, but the opinion of Meta AI. You asked me to help you ask that question. I did, and that is the result I got.

MiddleDimension:
➜That's not my opinion, but the opinion of Meta AI. You asked me to help you ask that question. I did, and that is the result I got.

OK, then! I am telling you that your Meta AI pal is wrong! Where it pertains to the Bible and Religion — Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc— as a whole, these AI tools seem to spew opinions fed directly to them by humans.

[quote author=Kobojunkie post=135383118]

The Catholic Church courtesy of Rome, attempted a hijacking of a movement that began in Judah, before its destruction, for political and material gain.

This is a claim you are making. What evidence doy you have to back it up?

Also, explain to us how the Catholic Church, you rightly called it a church, predates christianity.

The Catholics did not give the world the books contained in the collection referred to as the Bible since the books were originally written by Israelites. Rather, the Catholics attempted to colonize the noise created around the movement, to make it all their own.

The new testament was written by Israelites means the church did not decide which books should or should not make it in? Also, not all the books of the New Testament were written by Hebrews. At least one, was written by a 'gentile'. So, that fact has blown a hole in your position, correct?

...

Kobojunkie:
The Catholic Church courtesy of Rome, attempted a hijacking of a movement that began in Judah, before its destruction, for political and material gain. The Catholics did not give the world the books contained in the collection referred to as the Bible since the books were originally written by Israelites. Rather, the Catholics attempted to colonize the noise created around the movement, to make it all their own.

where is this separate movement you refer to? Who decided which books made it into the bible and why? There were many books written by the Israelites, some even read in sone churches, why didn't they all end up in the bible e.g. shepherd of hermas?

MiddleDimension:
➜This is a claim you are making. What evidence doy you have to back it up?
➜ Also, explain to us how the Catholic Church, you rightly called it a church, predates Christianity.
➜The new testament was written by Israelites means the church did not decide which books should or should not make it in?
➜ Also, not all the books of the New Testament were written by Hebrews.
➜ At least one, was written by a 'gentile'. So, that fact has blown a hole in your position, correct?

The contents of the books of Israelite Scripture stand as evidence to this.

2. The Catholic church— an assembly of people — predates Christianity? I am not certain what you are asking here. Christianity was established as the official religion of the Roman Empire around 320 AD. However, the group of non-Israelite men who set themselves up as bishops began their efforts long before this eventual event.

3. The Books that are contained today in your New Testament were written before 70 AD. The decision made by the churches afterwards did not affect the writing of the content of the books themselves.

4. All Israelites are Hebrews. All Jews and Gentiles— the non-Jewish subset of the Israelite population —, in the context of the books of the Bible, are Israelites. So, what do you mean?

5. At least one? 😁Many of the disciples were likely Gentiles — non-Jewish Israelites. Why? Well, according to John the Baptist, He came to His own — the Jews(of Judah)— but His own received Him not.

P.S. The word [i]Gentile is a term introduced first in Genesis 10 as describing members of the same family or claim living far from their homeland. [/i]. Throughout the Old Testament, non-Israelite foreigners were never regarded as gentiles for good reason. For instance, Nebuchadnezzar, Naaman, etc., were never regarded as gentiles in relation to the Israelites, for good reason, because they were not gentiles but simply non-Israelites.

btoks:
➜Where is this separate movement you refer to?
➜Who decided which books made it into the bible and why?
➜ There were many books written by the Israelites,
➜ some even read in sone churches, why didn't they all end up in the bible e.g. shepherd of hermas?

The movement that was Jesus Christ of Israel and His disciples — an Israelites-only movement which predated the destruction of Jerusalem and the nation of Judah, along with the eventual exile of over a 3rd of those who survived the desolation of the land. After the destruction, many groups attempted to hijack the original movement, spinning various propaganda in attempts to draw a connection to that which existed before the destruction of Jerusalem. As we all know, the group that won in the end—stolen by way of vicious campaigns— is the one that was led by Bishops who later cited Rome as their capital.

2. The books of Israelite Scripture were not written by non-Israelites, and they were all written before the destruction of Jerusalem and Judah. The books were in existence before the Bishops, most of them of Roman origins,— a wholly non-Israelite church/assembly—eventually decided to compile their chosen collection into what you call the bible today.

3. Indeed, the Israelites were not against writing books, so yes, lots of them did write, including Josephus, and some others during the first century before Jerusalem was destroyed.

4. I have read most of the books not included in your Bible, though. I think a better question should be Why should anyone interested in knowledge themselves to just the books that are contained in your Bible? Isn't that an admission that one is not wise enough, or one does not in fact believe he/she is guided by this deity that is supposed to be in charge of it all —the claim your churches make?

P.S. The Shepherd of Hermas was likely not written by an Israelite. Why? The promise of prophetic visions to the people of Israel by YHWH of Israel came to an end right as the walls of Jerusalem were brought down, stone by stone, and His End time was ushered in. Jesus Christ of Israel hinted at this when He declared that the end that was to come— that generation, the wicked people— would be much worse than their beginning.

MiddleDimension:
When I asked it that question, this is what it says: ''In many religious traditions, including Christianity, fallen angels are often associated with demons. According to some interpretations, fallen angels are heavenly beings who rebelled against God's will and were cast out of heaven. These fallen angels are then seen as demons or unclean spirits that roam the world, often seeking to lead humans astray or cause harm.

In biblical accounts, figures like Satan or Lucifer are sometimes described as a fallen angel, and his followers are referred to as demons or unclean spirits. However, different traditions and interpretations may have varying understandings of the nature and role of fallen angels and demons.''

Is the new Google called a.i not giving you the very same opinion which someone somewhere has said and would have said?

The bottom line is that people do as they please and can accept a view even if it is wrong and not reasonable same way they reject a view even though it is right and on- reasonable

Kobojunkie:
The movement that was Jesus Christ of Israel and His disciples — an Israelites-only movement which predated the destruction of Jerusalem and the nation of Judah, along with the eventual exile of over a 3rd of those who survived the desolation of the land. After the destruction, many groups attempted to hijack the original movement, spinning various propaganda in attempts to draw a connection to that which existed before the destruction of Jerusalem. As we all know, the group that won in the end—stolen by way of vicious campaigns— is the one that was led by Bishops who later cited Rome as their capital.

2. The books of Israelite Scripture were not written by non-Israelites, and they were all written before the destruction of Jerusalem and Judah. The books were in existence before the Bishops, most of them of Roman origins,— a wholly non-Israelite church/assembly—eventually decided to compile their chosen collection into what you call the bible today.

3. Indeed, the Israelites were not against writing books, so yes, lots of them did write, including Josephus, and some others during the first century before Jerusalem was destroyed.

4. I have read most of the books not included in your Bible, though. I think a better question should be Why should anyone interested in knowledge themselves to just the books that are contained in your Bible? Isn't that an admission that one is not wise enough, or one does not in fact believe he/she is guided by this deity that is supposed to be in charge of it all —the claim your churches make?

P.S. The Shepherd of Hermas was likely not written by an Israelite. Why? The promise of prophetic visions to the people of Israel by YHWH of Israel came to an end right as the walls of Jerusalem were brought down, stone by stone, and His End time was ushered in. Jesus Christ of Israel hinted at this when He declared that the end that was to come— that generation, the wicked people— would be much worse than their beginning.

While the movement began in israel, the message was also taken over into gentile lands especially by Paul in the beginning. Jesus himself interacted with gentiles. So where is the movement gone, surely the gates of hell didn't prevail against it.

The Catholic church follows scripture, sacred tradition & magisterium. The canonised scripture is interpreted with the context of sacred tradition. Some non scriptural books may or may not have valid sacred tradition.


PS- might be worth removing the dashes not to come across as too chatgpt ish.

According to Jesus after establishing the Christian faith something will follow.

What is that?

He presented another illustration to them, saying: “The Kingdom of the heavens may be likened to a man who sowed fine seed in his field. While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat and left. When the stalk sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds also appeared. So the slaves of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it have weeds?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ He said, ‘No, for fear that while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest season, I will tell the reapers: First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up; then gather the wheat into my storehouse.’” Matthew 13:24-30

Note verse 25 where Jesus said "when men were sleeping an enemy came to sow weeds among the fine seeds" this means after the death of Jesus' Apostles Satan initiated evil men and handed Christianity to them then began persecuting whoever chooses to support what the Apostles laid down. This continued for centuries so Satan's agents arranged the books and added other books to it just to complicate issues for whoever wants to know the message in God's word.
This triggered the anger of angels because it will lead to a great confusion so they asked Jesus for permission to intervene but Jesus told them to let both fine seeds and weeds continue to grow together {Matthew 13:30} so the angels should maintain their peace until the time of the harvest when both have grown tall this will allow for everyone to see clearly the fine seeds and the weeds.
The harvest time began in the year 1914 when Jesus was crowned in heaven as king of God's Kingdom and right from that time research began to find out which books, chapters and verses were added to God's word by the AntiChrist.
So just as Jesus foretold in the first century even though it's difficult for us to figure out which religion has the truth what we need to do is observe their FRUITS {Matthew 7:15-20} you can't do this if you don't know the exact fruit the first century Jewish disciples of Christ produced, it's when you know that fruit that you can start examining the fruit of each religion to ascertain which one matches that of Christ's first century disciples.

After knowing the fruit and that group producing the same fruit the rest lies with you because you may choose to ignore the fruit and continue arguing aimlessly but one thing is sure:

Only the religion producing that same fruit got the accurate knowledge of God's word otherwise they can't if they don't have the accurate knowledge of truth! Matthew 7:16-18

God bless you and may you have peace!

Dtruthspeaker:
Is the new Google called a.i not giving you the very same opinion which someone somewhere has said and would have said?

The bottom line is that people do as they please and can accept a view even if it is wrong and not reasonable same way they reject a view even though it is right and on- reasonable

So sad

Hippo and Carthage were not councils. They were synold. For it to be a council, all the four partrichs and the bishop of Jerusalem MUST be represented.
The synold of Hippo discussed the canon of the Bible..

They just put all the books on the table and locked the door. The once remaining on the table where canonized the next day...

No holy Spirit

btoks:
➜While the movement began in israel, the message was also taken over into gentile lands especially by Paul in the beginning. Jesus himself interacted with gentiles. So where is the movement gone, surely the gates of hell didn't prevail against it.
➜The Catholic church follows scripture, sacred tradition & magisterium. The canonised scripture is interpreted with the context of sacred tradition.
➜ Some non scriptural books may or may not have valid sacred tradition.
➜ PS- might be worth removing the dashes not to come across as too chatgpt ish.

This is a wrong conclusion on your part, given that Jesus Christ of Israel made it abundantly clear to His disciples that He was sent to the Lost Sheep of Israel — the bloodline of Jacob— and not to any country or nation in particular. At the time of Jesus Christ of Israel, the bloodline of Jacob had been mostly dispersed across many nations. (The nation of Israel was destroyed in 720 BC; its sister nation of Judah was captured around 587 BC, with most of the people taken as captives to other lands.) The 10 tribes which occupied the later nation of Israel formed after the death of Solomon were expelled from their country, some as slaves, others as refugees in other lands, any land where they could find a place for themselves. Of course, we know from accounts that many of those who belonged to the Levite clan took their place back in Jerusalem, in the sister nation of Judah.

It is for this reason that Jesus Christ of Israel, after instructing His followers not to give that which is holy to the dogs — non-Israelites — then proceeded to send them out to all the nations. (Jesus Christ of Israel made it abundantly clear to His followers that only those of Israelite descent could handle that which is holy, and this fact had no bearing on which nation they resided in.) It is not for the reasons you assume.

2. These are all lies fed to you by your catholic overlords. There is nothing biblical about your catholic traditions and ideas. They are all traditions of men — ideas of religion formulated by these men whom you worship to deceive you with.

3. Even Jesus Christ of Israel, who read from the Septuagint in His time, did not care to suggest to His followers which books they could or could not read. Then by whose authority did any man or woman have to decide these things for other men/women? The long and short of this is that your catholic interpretations are merely the suggestions of men for gullible men to follow.

4. I am not Chatgpt abeg!

MiddleDimension:
So sad

Really, it's sad if you do not see that.

Dtruthspeaker:
Really, it's sad if you do not see that.

So, what do we do?

Do we just not even have discussions on issues anymore? If so, how then does the society improve?

MiddleDimension:
So, what do we do?

Do we just not even have discussions on issues anymore? If so, how then does the society improve?

Can you stop governors and rulers from being pompous, arrogant and unjust?

No.

So also can we not change the society. People are just moving from one evil to a worse one. Eg being shot to death because you drove one way.

The world has only been getting worse and worse and for me it is better to die and port out than to be here seeing how things are getting worse and worse, with people encouraging it to continue in that direction