₦airaland Forum

Please answer this questions with love and understanding towards those who have little to no knowledge of your Quran and possibly hadiths


1. I have heard some Muslims say they believe Jesus is the Messiah and that Muhammad spoke about Jesus Christ, but that he taught about Jesus Christ nor preached his message the gospel. True Muslims in the house care to share what you have been taught was the message of Jesus the Messiah.

2. Do you honor Muhammad more than Jesus

3. Adam was forgiven of his sins but was still cast out of Eden. What then was the result of his forgiveness

4. Why do some believe Aisha was 9 but some believe she was older, a teenager possibly 19. (Personally I think she may have been way older from the little I read but people use the she's 9 to attack Muhammad)

5. I have heard some Muslims say, the assignment of Jesus failed so therefore God had to send Muhammad. If you believe this, explain how it failed or clarify why some say this.

6. There are more but let's start with these five, maybe one more, because I get different answers to this from Muslims. Why did God create man according to the Quran.

7. Oh what does the Quran teach is the reason God sent Jesus?

gohf:
Please answer this questions with love and understanding towards those who have little to no knowledge of your Quran and possibly hadiths

1. I have heard some Muslims say they believe Jesus is the Messiah and that Muhammad spoke about Jesus Christ, but that he taught about Jesus Christ nor preached his message the gospel. True Muslims in the house care to share what you have been taught was the message of Jesus the Messiah.

In Summary Jesus Christ son of Mary is a messenger of Allah to the children of Israel. He was inspired with the scripture we call "Injeel" which many translated as Gospel or Good news! And it is believed the Injeel contains a call on the children of Israel to worship one God (Allah) alone and to follow him (Jesus) as God's messenger. Just as other prophets came before him. He also told them about the last Prophet coming after him by the name Ahmad. Some things forbidden before in the past for the Israelites were also made lawful to them through Jesus.

2. Do you honor Muhammad more than Jesus

Yes, Muslims honor Muhammad more than Jesus. This is because though we believe in Jesus as one of the eminent Prophet and revered messenger of Allah, he was still not sent to us. Muhammad is the last messenger sent to us from his time till the world ends. Those who followed Jesus in truth during his time are also Muslims like us.

3. Adam was forgiven of his sins but was still cast out of Eden. What then was the result of his forgiveness

The result of the forgiveness is that Adam won't be punished for that sin in the afterlife. The initial plan of Allah creating man was to make them be on earth!

4. Why do some believe Aisha was 9 but some believe she was older, a teenager possibly 19. (Personally I think she may have been way older from the little I read but people use the she's 9 to attack Muhammad)

Aisha was 6 when she was engaged and 9 when the marriage was consumated. She stayed with the Prophet for 9 years.

5. I have heard some Muslims say, the assignment of Jesus failed so therefore God had to send Muhammad. If you believe this, explain how it failed or clarify why some say this.

If this were to be true then Moses, Noah and other should be termed failures! But no! None of them is a failure. All of them were sent to a demography of people! And they fulfilled their mission as Allah willed them to. Jesus fulfilled his mission and will still complete it when Allah wills.

6. There are more but let's start with these five, maybe one more, because I get different answers to this from Muslims. Why did God create man according to the Quran.

Mankind (as well as the Jinn) is created to worship Allah alone!

7. Oh what does the Quran teach is the reason God sent Jesus?

Allah sent Jesus with the main reason of calling people back to the sole worship of Allah! He confirmed the Torah, did miracles and as said up there gave prophecy of the final Prophet by the name Ahmad!
Jesus was the last prophet sent to the Israelites.

AntiChristian:
In Summary Jesus Christ son of Mary is a messenger of Allah to the children of Israel. He was inspired with the scripture we call "Injeel" which many translated as Gospel or Good news! And it is believed the Injeel contains a call on the children of Israel to worship one God (Allah) alone and to follow him (Jesus) as God's messenger. Just as other prophets came before him. He also told them about the last Prophet coming after him by the name Ahmad. Some things forbidden before in the past for the Israelites were also made lawful to them through Jesus.

so according to your Quran the gospel is to call Israel to worship God, how is that different from what the other prophets. How is that "good news"? Is that even a news to the people of Israel? When you say others before him, are you saying the gospel was given through all other prophets as well before Jesus, or are trying to make Jesus equal to other prophets?

So what things that were forbidden were made lawful by Jesus according to your teaching from your Quran?

Why did Jesus according to you suggest that Ahmed would be the last prophet?

Now you write it is believed, is it not directly stated nor taught by Muhammad in the Quran what God's good news is?

Yes, Muslims honor Muhammad more than Jesus. This is because though we believe in Jesus as one of the eminent Prophet and revered messenger of Allah, he was still not sent to us. Muhammad is the last messenger sent to us from his time till the world ends. Those who followed Jesus in truth during his time are also Muslims like us.

now you agree but not some other Muslims agree to this. But it's obviously majority of you honor Muhammad more, I won't question if he wasn't sent to you but to claim that those who followed Jesus in truth during his time are also Muslims, you should state what they believed and followed or are you making an assumption that they followed Muhammad.

Look this is what I see, an attempt to associate with the scriptures while undermining it at the same time to give room for self promotion and exaltation.

You claim Jesus is honored less because he wasn't sent to you. It doesn't matter if Jesus is God's anointed king for his kingdom does it because those who know Quran say that to be true and even said that Muhammad wasn't a replacement for Jesus and believe that God will send Jesus again. The question now is when that happens would Muhammed be under Jesus's kingship or not?

The result of the forgiveness is that Adam won't be punished for that sin in the afterlife. The initial plan of Allah creating man was to make them be on earth!

so Adam being removed from the garden wasn't a punishment to you? So Adam didn't have to perform religious deeds to be forgiven he just had to believe in God's mercy and seek God's forgiveness right? And is this the process of obtaining God's mercy that the Quran teaches? That all you need is to ask God for mercy and believe in God's mercy.

Now first off, why do you all believe in this "last prophet" message? Do you understand the meaning of a prophet is one that is God's mouthpiece and speaks God's word. So to say last prophet isn't that also saying God won't speak to the people anymore no matter what.

It's silly to believe such nonsense, if there's a last prophet then it means the world is ending and God doesn't need to raise a people or call them to repentance. In fact it shows a lack of understanding of the term prophet.

Except you can give a different or specific definition of the term prophet. For instance why do you believe that Jesus is the last prophet to Israel or that Muhammad is your last prophet?

gohf:
so according to your Quran the gospel is to call Israel to worship God, how is that different from what the other prophets. How is that "good news"? Is that even a news to the people of Israel? When you say others before him, are you saying the gospel was given through all other prophets as well before Jesus, or are trying to make Jesus equal to other prophets?

So what things that were forbidden were made lawful by Jesus according to your teaching from your Quran?

Why did Jesus according to you suggest that Ahmed would be the last prophet?

Now you write it is believed, is it not directly stated nor taught by Muhammad in the Quran what God's good news is?

It is Injeel because that is the scripture given to the Israelites at the time of Jesus! The difference is that it relaxes some of the earlier laws for the israelites! And And all Prophets essentially preached the same core message i.e. to worship Allah alone without partners! All Prophet have their levels. In Islam, the category is divided into Prophets and Messengers! A messenger by virtue of the message sent to be delivered is superior to a Prophet! All messengers are also Prophets but not all Prophets are messengers! Adam was the first Prophet, while Noah was the first messenger. All Prophets are like brothers of the same fathers with different mothers! Each have the demography he was sent to! The foremeost of them are Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad! May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all! When i say something is believed, it means that makes one who refuses to believe such is a disbeliever in Islam!

now you agree but not some other Muslims agree to this. But it's obviously majority of you honor Muhammad more, I won't question if he wasn't sent to you but to claim that those who followed Jesus in truth during his time are also Muslims, you should state what they believed and followed or are you making an assumption that they followed Muhammad.

Look this is what I see, an attempt to associate with the scriptures while undermining it at the same time to give room for self promotion and exaltation.

You claim Jesus is honored less because he wasn't sent to you. It doesn't matter if Jesus is God's anointed king for his kingdom does it because those who know Quran say that to be true and even said that Muhammad wasn't a replacement for Jesus and believe that God will send Jesus again. The question now is when that happens would Muhammed be under Jesus's kingship or not?

We honor Muhammad and pray for him to earn more rewards from Allah! We honor Jesus and other Prophets too! But they were not sent to us. If Jesus were to come back today, we'll follow him as he would be using the Shariah of Islam to rule and judge! When Jesus comes back he will destroy Christianity as well as the antichrist! He will live his life fully and die a natural death as Muslim.

All Prophets and messengers were Muslims. And all those who follow them were Muslims too. Allah mentions the disciples of Jesus in the Qur'an and they were Muslims. Only those from the time of Muhammad need to follow him to be Muslims! Those who followed Jesus during his time were Muslims! Those who followed Moses during his time were Muslims!

so Adam being removed from the garden wasn't a punishment to you? So Adam didn't have to perform religious deeds to be forgiven he just had to believe in God's mercy and seek God's forgiveness right? And is this the process of obtaining God's mercy that the Quran teaches? That all you need is to ask God for mercy and believe in God's mercy.

Now first off, why do you all believe in this "last prophet" message? Do you understand the meaning of a prophet is one that is God's mouthpiece and speaks God's word. So to say last prophet isn't that also saying God won't speak to the people anymore no matter what.

It's silly to believe such nonsense, if there's a last prophet then it means the world is ending and God doesn't need to raise a people or call them to repentance. In fact it shows a lack of understanding of the term prophet.

Except you can give a different or specific definition of the term prophet. For instance why do you believe that Jesus is the last prophet to Israel or that Muhammad is your last prophet?

Adam being removed from garden can be said to be God fulfilling His intention of creating a vicegerent on earth! And if you regard it as a punishment then it's a lesser punishment. For example, when a man steal he is punished in Islamic law. After that punishment the culprit still needs to seek forgiveness from Allah for the sin commited or else he'll be punished again in the afterlife. Adam was forgiven so he inherited no sins and won't be punished for the sin in the afterlife!

We believe in the torah revealed to Moses, the Zabur revealed to David, the Injeel revealed to Jesus, the scrolls revealed to Abraham and the Qur'an revealed to Muhammad. All these scriptures are the word of Allah for the people at the respective times of the Prophets. Only Muhammad was sent to the world of mankind and unseen Jinn!

A Prophet is sent to a believing people by Allah!
A messenger is sent to a disbelieving people by Allah!
If God were to be speaking to every Tomiwa, Dike and Haruna, then what's the essense of the scripture in the Qur'an.

Muhammad is the last Prophet of Allah! There are no more Prophets nor scriptures to be revealed till the world ends!

May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon all of them from Adam to Muhammad!

So AntiChristian

It is Injeel because that is the scripture given to the Israelites at the time of Jesus! The difference is that it relaxes some of the earlier laws for the israelites! And And all Prophets essentially preached the same core message i.e. to worship Allah alone without partners! All Prophet have their levels. In Islam, the category is divided into Prophets and Messengers! A messenger by virtue of the message sent to be delivered is superior to a Prophet! All messengers are also Prophets but not all Prophets are messengers! Adam was the first Prophet, while Noah was the first messenger. All Prophets are like brothers of the same fathers with different mothers! Each have the demography he was sent to! The foremeost of them are Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad! May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all! When i say something is believed, it means that makes one who refuses to believe such is a disbeliever in Islam!

This question, "Why did Jesus according to you suggest that Ahmed would be the last prophet?" Wasn't answered.

Now I asked you what the message contains, and not to whom the message was given. What is the good news. Now you are saying well Jesus is a prophet and a messenger, my question remains what was his message. You can't keep saying all prophets were told to tell people that they should believe in one God, of messengers are superior like you wrote then what made Jesus superior, what was his specific message.

Now I have asked you what Muhammad taught, or are you saying that two messengers from God cannot teach the same message or that Muhammad did not know the message given through Jesus?

We honor Muhammad and pray for him to earn more rewards from Allah! We honor Jesus and other Prophets too! But they were not sent to us. If Jesus were to come back today, we'll follow him as he would be using the Shariah of Islam to rule and judge! When Jesus comes back he will destroy Christianity as well as the antichrist! He will live his life fully and die a natural death as Muslim.

All Prophets and messengers were Muslims. And all those who follow them were Muslims too. Allah mentions the disciples of Jesus in the Qur'an and they were Muslims. Only those from the time of Muhammad need to follow him to be Muslims! Those who followed Jesus during his time were Muslims! Those who followed Moses during his time were Muslims! so when Muslim Jesus comes back with his rule and destroys Christianity and antichrist, will Muhammad follow him? It's a simple question yes or no.

AntiChristian:
Adam being removed from garden can be said to be God fulfilling His intention of creating a vicegerent on earth! And if you regard it as a punishment then it's a lesser punishment. For example, when a man steal he is punished in Islamic law. After that punishment the culprit still needs to seek forgiveness from Allah for the sin commited or else he'll be punished again in the afterlife. Adam was forgiven so he inherited no sins and won't be punished for the sin in the afterlife!

We believe in the torah revealed to Moses, the Zabur revealed to David, the Injeel revealed to Jesus, the scrolls revealed to Abraham and the Qur'an revealed to Muhammad. All these scriptures are the word of Allah for the people at the respective times of the Prophets. Only Muhammad was sent to the world of mankind and unseen Jinn!

A Prophet is sent to a believing people by Allah!
A messenger is sent to a disbelieving people by Allah!
If God were to be speaking to every Tomiwa, Dike and Haruna, then what's the essense of the scripture in the Qur'an.

Muhammad is the last Prophet of Allah! There are no more Prophets nor scriptures to be revealed till the world ends!

May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon all of them from Adam to Muhammad!

now I didn't say Adam inherited any sin, except you are saying Adam didn't have a sinful nature and didn't pass such nature to his children then you would have to explain how Adam sinned and why his descendants also sin if they don't have a sinful nature in them?


Now you didn't not answer nor affirm this question

So Adam didn't have to perform religious deeds to be forgiven he just had to believe in God's mercy and seek God's forgiveness right? And is this the process of obtaining God's mercy that the Quran teaches? That all you need is to ask God for mercy and believe in God's mercy.



You explaining what a messenger is and a prophet is, didn't answer the question or are you saying there are no more believing people and there are no more unbelieving people. Well you didn't say last messenger, so Muhammad was according to you God's last prophet to his believing people?


Like help others understand why you say and believe he is the last.

gohf:
now I didn't say Adam inherited any sin, except you are saying Adam didn't have a sinful nature and didn't pass such nature to his children then you would have to explain how Adam sinned and why his descendants also sin if they don't have a sinful nature in them?

Adam had a sinful nature as well as a tendency to do good! Just as his generations too. Why do you guys emphasize only on sinful nature; is there no "good deed" nature in your dictionary? I thought everything your God created was God! How come Adam became bad if he was created good! Adam was created with freewill. Just like Satan and his Jinn-kind.

Now you didn't not answer nor affirm this question

So Adam didn't have to perform religious deeds to be forgiven he just had to believe in God's mercy and seek God's forgiveness right? And is this the process of obtaining God's mercy that the Quran teaches? That all you need is to ask God for mercy and believe in God's mercy.

Adam sincerely asked for forgiveness and Allah forgave him. Any Muslim could do same and repent sincerely and Allah forgives whoever He wills.

You explaining what a messenger is and a prophet is, didn't answer the question or are you saying there are no more believing people and there are no more unbelieving people. Well you didn't say last messenger, so Muhammad was according to you God's last prophet to his believing people?

The essence of having a revealed scripture is to be guided. So believers now have the Qur'an and the traditions of the Prophet salallahu alayhi wasalam. These scriptures will always be in vogue till the day of resurrection for all mankind and Jinn. And Muhammad is the last Prophet of Allah in fact he's the seal of all Prophets. The last Prophet also means the last messenger since a messenger is a subset of a Prophet. So all believing people will have to follow the Qur'an and the traditions of the last Prophet till the world ends!

Like help others understand why you say and believe he is the last.

All is understandable here!

gohf:
This question, "Why did Jesus according to you suggest that Ahmed would be the last prophet?" Wasn't answered.

It was revealed to Jesus by Allah that Prophet Ahmad will come after him. Jesus had nothing to suggest![/quote]Now I asked you what the message contains, and not to whom the message was given. What is the good news. Now you are saying well Jesus is a prophet and a messenger, my question remains what was his message. You can't keep saying all prophets were told to tell people that they should believe in one God, of messengers are superior like you wrote then what made Jesus superior, what was his specific message.[/quote]All Prophets are superior people of their respective time. As for the message the Injeel contains, that's not our business to know since we already said the message was particularly for the children of Israel which Jesus was sent to! It wasn't sent to us. The core message is that it brings people back to the sole worship of Allah and relaxed the otherwise harsh commandments from the earlier scriptures.

Now I have asked you what Muhammad taught, or are you saying that two messengers from God cannot teach the same message or that Muhammad did not know the message given through Jesus?

What Muhammad taught is the Qur'an and his tradition. What Jesus taught was the Injeel. Allah did not include the Injeel in the Qur'an for us. Injeel is for the children of Israel and is what Jesus preached and taught while on earth. It was never in a book form.

so when Muslim Jesus comes back with his rule and destroys Christianity and antichrist, will Muhammad follow him? It's a simple question yes or no.

I already answered this. Our believe about Jesus the son of Mary is that he never died at all and will come back shortly before the world ends. He will destroy Christianity and the antichrist and judge with the Shari'ah of Islam.

He will be using the Qur'an the ultimate scripture that remains till the end of time.

So he follows the final revelation of Allah to Muhammad.

May the peace and blessings of Allah be on all Prophets!

AntiChristian:
Adam had a sinful nature as well as a tendency to do good! Just as his generations too. Why do you guys emphasize only on sinful nature; is there no "good deed" nature in your dictionary? I thought everything your God created was God! How come Adam became bad if he was created good! Adam was created with freewill. Just like Satan and his Jinn-kind.

don't know why you seeing my mentioning a sinful nature which you seem to also agree to, as emphasizing but the reason isn't as you assume, it is not because there is no good nature okay. If any reason it explains why men go against God and you agree we all have a sinful nature

Adam sincerely asked for forgiveness and Allah forgave him. Any Muslim could do same and repent sincerely and Allah forgives whoever He wills.

so God can forgive anyone as long as they sincerely repent or they have to first convert to your religion before they can ask for forgiveness and be forgiven?

The essence of having a revealed scripture is to be guided. So believers now have the Qur'an and the traditions of the Prophet salallahu alayhi wasalam. These scriptures will always be in vogue till the day of resurrection for all mankind and Jinn. And Muhammad is the last Prophet of Allah in fact he's the seal of all Prophets. The last Prophet also means the last messenger since a messenger is a subset of a Prophet. So all believing people will have to follow the Qur'an and the traditions of the last Prophet till the world ends!

All is understandable here!

now when you mention revealed scripture and is purpose is to guide. First issue is compared to the commandments that was publicly revealed to the people of Israel and the Torah that in the sight of Israel Moses had to ascend and receive to confirm that it was inspired by God. Muhammad is said to have had a private encounter and though some mention 2 witnesses or so. How valid is the Quran which contradicts somethings mentioned in the Torah which was given publicly followed by acts of God. One has to be wrong when both contradict each other, don't you agree.

When you call Muhammed the last prophet, is it a claim he made or a public declaration by God. Is that what Islam teaches.

Now comparing your response to why Muhammad is the last prophet to the reason why Jesus is the only Messiah, it is more reasonable to believe that Jesus is the only way to God. You are making claims with no clear explanation as to why Muhammad is the last prophet, it's either you don't know why or you there is no why because he isn't.

All believers now have the Quran, all of them have to follow it, it's like a programmed reason which doesn't answer the question why is Muhammad the last prophet.

Muhammad can't be the last prophet to unbelievers because his message and outreach didn't reach unbelievers, especially some of the Islam doctrines or practices towards said unbelievers.

Muhammad can't be the last prophet to Israel because he was never sent to Israel.

Muhammad wasn't even an Israelite yet he associates himself with israelite prophets and claims to be the last of them, so he can't even say he was the last israelite prophet.

What is the basis for this claim

AntiChristian:
It was revealed to Jesus by Allah that Prophet Ahmad will come after him. Jesus had nothing to suggest!

okay if it was not a suggestion then you have empirical evidence or book chapter verse that shows that Jesus actually said so and it is recorded and written down. If not, shouldn't we all see it as a false claim?

All Prophets are superior people of their respective time. As for the message the Injeel contains, that's not our business to know since we already said the message was particularly for the children of Israel which Jesus was sent to! It wasn't sent to us. The core message is that it brings people back to the sole worship of Allah and relaxed the otherwise harsh commandments from the earlier scriptures.

so a message which is none of your business is one in which you can infer the core message of it. Isn't that a contradiction? A false statement isn't only an assumption but also manipulation, you first wrote that messengers are superior to prophets but you have changed the basis of your comparison to being that prophets are superior to people which wasn't the basis of the enquiry, this isn't the first time you have done so. So it is deliberate or you don't understand the question? Repeating harsh commandments without specifying or giving one example of one harsh commandment. But would you be able to do so when you have said you do not know what the gospel says.

Let me strongman your point by assuming you mean that the good news to Israel is that they no longer has to follow certain laws of moses and freeing them from . But the question is how can you come to such a knowledge without knowing what the gospel says?

Now note that Jesus didn't preach against the commandments of God like you seem to suggest was the good news, but the answer I am getting from you is that MUHAMMAD DID NOT KNOW WHAT THE GOSPEL IS YET HE MENTIONED IT.

What Muhammad taught is the Qur'an and his tradition. What Jesus taught was the Injeel. Allah did not include the Injeel in the Qur'an for us. Injeel is for the children of Israel and is what Jesus preached and taught while on earth. It was never in a book form.

so what you are saying is that God did not give you guys the good news that He promised in the Tanakh is for all nations, Israel and others?

I can't even ask you what you think is the purpose of the good news, seeing as you said Muslims don't know.

Now the gospel not being in book form is obvious, seeing as it announces that the kingdom of God is here, a part fulfillment of God's promise in the Tanakh that a written proof of the said promise. It's one thing to say you don't know what the igneel is, but then all prophets that Muhammad claims to associate with knew the promise. Now does Muhammad know the promise, or did he teach God's promise.

Now if the Tanakh and new testament teachers both speak of this promise, does Muhammad teach concerning it as well and what does he teach concerning it. Look out discuss concerns the salvation of souls right, so this answers can save a soul

This was my question "so when Muslim Jesus comes back with his rule and destroys Christianity and antichrist, will Muhammad follow him? It's a simple question yes or no."

I already answered this. Our believe about Jesus the son of Mary is that he never died at all and will come back shortly before the world ends. He will destroy Christianity and the antichrist and judge with the Shari'ah of Islam.

you claiming you have already answered it doesn't stop you from writing yes or no. Neither did I ask you if you believe the resurrection of Jesus, I didn't disagree with what you wrote, Now this antichrist and Christianity destroy Jesus who comes to judge with shariah of Islam will Muhammad follow his judgement and submit to it? Yes or no. Or is Muhammad going to rebel against Jesus the just judge?

NairaLTQ:
Qur'an 9:31
They (Jews and Christians) have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah and the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.

Questions:
1. Knowing that the Qur'an is clear and simple to understand, is Allah associating the Messiah as partners with him?
2. Is this Quranic verse an error or mistake OR is it exactly what Allah intend to say?
3. Does Allah truly want us to make the Messiah LORD with him?

OR
Do we need to twist Arabic Grammar to make the verse consistent with what Allah says?


Quran 19:71
There is not one of you who will not go down to it (the Fire), that is a fixed Decree of your Lord

Meaning that ALL Muslims will at least first be in Hell Fire.

Quran 19:72
Then, We will save those who were cautious of Us, but the harmdoers shall be left there hobbling on their knees

After ALL you Muslims enter the Fire, THEN Allah will THEREAFTER remove the good Muslims and leave other people in the Fire

1. I am sure the first thing you will say is that, "the verse doesn't say that" . So, strictly from the Arabic , what does it say?
2. Why do you think you will first have to go into hell fire before you are freed by Allah?
3. How long do you think you will be in the fire before Allah comes to free you: 1000 years!?





I am not even making any arguments: I am presenting may case based on reasons.
What you seem to want to do is to give me your own views without answering for my reasons AND you want me to take it as the final testament.
I am not here to provoke you o!
You will note that anything I say, I justify it from your own books: Is my offence is selective cherry-picking!?

so antichristian your Quran calls the Messiah lord? But you can't call the Christ Lord but honor him lesser than Muhammad?

This is confusing, and you said Adam was forgiven from going to hell yet it says they will all go to hell?

gohf:
so antichristian your Quran calls the Messiah lord? But you can't call the Christ Lord but honor him lesser than Muhammad?

This is confusing, and you said Adam was forgiven from going to hell yet it says they will all go to hell?

Don't mind muslims. Check all their deliberate mistranslations of Quran 9:31 . They cannot admit whether it is an error or a deep theological discuss from Allah

Qur'an 9:31
They (Jews and Christians) have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah and the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.

The Questions still waitng for Muslims to answer:
1. Knowing that the Qur'an is clear and simple to understand, is Allah associating the Messiah as partners with him?
2. Is this Quranic verse an error or mistake OR is it exactly what Allah intend to say?
3. Does Allah truly want us to make the Messiah LORD with him?

TenQ:
Don't mind muslims. Check all their deliberate mistranslations of Quran 9:31 . They cannot admit whether it is an error or a deep theological discuss from Allah

Qur'an 9:31
They (Jews and Christians) have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah and the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.

The Questions still waitng for Muslims to answer:
1. Knowing that the Qur'an is clear and simple to understand, is Allah associating the Messiah as partners with him?
2. Is this Quranic verse an error or mistake OR is it exactly what Allah intend to say?
3. Does Allah truly want us to make the Messiah LORD with him?

people like creativeorbit and Antichristian, they are selective in their choice of texts and their interpretation of it is eisegesis, while the former has an intellectual base for diverting and strawmaning logical reasoning, the later is just, the less said the better.

gohf:
people like creativeorbit and Antichristian, they are selective in their choice of texts and their interpretation of it is eisegesis, while the former has an intellectual base for diverting and strawmaning logical reasoning, the later is just, the less said the better.

You for talk am!

Even the person wey bombard you with knowledge you accept hin argument?

Sheer waste of time typing!

gohf:
people like creativeorbit and Antichristian, they are selective in their choice of texts and their interpretation of it is eisegesis, while the former has an intellectual base for diverting and strawmaning logical reasoning, the later is just, the less said the better.

Muslims would rather tell outright lie, feign ignorance or just repeat what they hope will get you off their backs rather than face the truth.

Qur'an 9:31
They (Jews and Christians) have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah and the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.

Here is a classic example of a quran verse that they just must lie to themselves and to others about

If you’re genuinely seeking truth, then start by respecting the subject you’re asking about. Don’t come cloaked in fake humility asking for “love and understanding” while repeating overused polemics and ignorant misrepresentations. Let’s tear through your list with logic and without fluff.

1. “What was the message of Jesus the Messiah?”

Let’s correct this from the jump: Yes, Muslims believe Jesus (`Isa), peace be upon him, is the Messiah. But not the messiah in the distorted, church-invented version you were spoon-fed.

His real message was the same as every prophet before and after him: pure monotheism — worship one God and obey His commands. The Injil (Gospel) that was revealed to him was a divine scripture, not the four gospels written decades after him. His mission was not to be worshipped, but to call people back to the Law of God (Matthew 5:17 echoes that, ironically).

So no — Muhammad didn't “preach Jesus’ gospel” because Jesus’ original gospel was the same essence as the Qur’an: La ilaha illa Allah (There is no god but Allah).

2. “Do you honor Muhammad more than Jesus?”

We honor both, but we worship neither — that’s the difference between Islam and Christianity.

Jesus is one of the five greatest prophets in Islam. But Muhammad ﷺ is the final messenger — the one through whom the last and complete revelation was delivered. That doesn’t reduce the honor of Jesus — it clarifies the hierarchy of prophethood based on their roles. If you think honor equals divinity, that’s a problem with your theology, not ours.

3. “Adam was forgiven but cast out — so what was the point of forgiveness?”

Your confusion comes from treating God's forgiveness like a “reset button.” Being forgiven doesn’t erase all consequences — it removes the spiritual penalty, not the worldly effect.

Adam was forgiven — yes — but paradise was never meant to be his eternal home at that point. Earth was always the plan. His fall was not “original sin,” it was a mistake followed by repentance and elevation. Islam rejects the idea that all of mankind is born sinful because of Adam’s mistake — a toxic doctrine that paints God as unjust and man as inherently damned.

4. “Aisha’s age: 9 or older?”

Aisha's age is used obsessively by Islamophobes who don’t care about context, history, or scholarship. Yes, some hadith report she was 9 at consummation — and these are found in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim, considered strong sources. However, classical and modern scholars have pointed to other evidence (like her involvement in battles, historical gaps, or statements by her relatives) that suggest a higher age.

But let’s get brutally honest: None of this was controversial until Western morality began to falsely universalize modern standards. In her society, this was normal, dignified, and unchallenged. You don’t get to retroactively impose your lens on 7th century Arabia while ignoring far worse age gaps in Christian Europe’s royal marriages.

And unless you’re ready to apply that same outrage to Solomon, David, or even Mary’s “engagement” to Joseph in your own religious texts, maybe sit this one out.

5. “Did Jesus fail his assignment?”

This is pure ignorance — and no, Muslims do not believe Jesus failed. We believe his mission was interrupted, not failed. His return is part of completing that mission — not bringing new revelation, but affirming Islam, breaking the cross, and killing the false messiah (Dajjal).

Anyone who says “Jesus failed” is either misrepresenting Islam, or parroting half-baked statements. The failure lies in what people did with his message, not the message itself.

6. “Why did God create man according to the Qur’an?”

This one’s easy. Qur’an 51:56 —

> “And I did not create jinn and mankind except to worship Me.”

We were created for submission, worship, and moral responsibility — not to “fall” and then beg for salvation based on inherited sin. We’re here to prove ourselves, to be tested, and to return to our Creator.

You want a purpose? That’s it: Know God, submit to Him, live morally, die with faith.

7. “Why did God send Jesus?”

Because God sent prophets to every nation (Qur’an 16:36). Jesus was sent to the Children of Israel, as a reformer and a prophet, confirming the Torah and bringing the Injil. That’s Qur’an 3:49 and 61:6.

He was never sent to be crucified for sins he didn’t commit. He wasn’t sent to change God's law or start a new religion. He came to call his people to repentance and monotheism. Period.

Closing Note:

You claim to be asking out of ignorance, but the way your questions are framed shows loaded assumptions, subtle insults, and cherry-picked controversies. If you're sincere, fix your tone, read a Qur’an for once, and stop relying on internet polemics.

If you want truth, seek it. If you want to argue, be ready for the weight of a 1400-year-old religion with answers sharper than your questions.

CreativeOrbit AntiChristian TenQ gohf

JimRohn:
If you’re genuinely seeking truth, then start by respecting the subject you’re asking about. Don’t come cloaked in fake humility asking for “love and understanding” while repeating overused polemics and ignorant misrepresentations. Let’s tear through your list with logic and without fluff.

but you here clearly come with accusations and strife in other not to explain and build up but to tear down. I would say it's good you are stating you intent early but you could do without the bias justification for it

1. “What was the message of Jesus the Messiah?”

Let’s correct this from the jump: Yes, Muslims believe Jesus (`Isa), peace be upon him, is the Messiah. But not the messiah in the distorted, church-invented version you were spoon-fed.

there was no need for correction the basis of the question focusing on the Islamic Jesus which has you have clearly put is different from the distorted version so I believe it's either like others you claim there are some truths in their version as it is distorted and you are aware of the what exactly was distorted for you to make such claims against them.

His real message was the same as every prophet before and after him: pure monotheism — worship one God and obey His commands. The Injil (Gospel) that was revealed to him was a divine scripture, not the four gospels written decades after him. His mission was not to be worshipped, but to call people back to the Law of God (Matthew 5:17 echoes that, ironically).

now if as you claim this prophet Jesus gave the same message as every other prophets, then that means Muhammed gave the same message as well, or is Muhammeds message different from every other prophet?
If yes, then is it possible a lie or are you saying that prophets get different messages then therefore the injil has more messages other than the simplified, there is only one God.

If no, Muhammad did bring a different message, then the question still is, what message of the gospel did Muhammad teach?

Now when you speak about obeying his commands, what did Jesus reveal are the commands of God and what did Muhammad reveal are the commands of God.

I see that you have quoted from a distorted text which you said isn't the gospel given to Jesus, the truly ironic thing, with proof, is that you have clearly distorted the verse you quoted. Without adding any other verse nor explaining it, this is what Matt.5.17 says "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Can you explain your intention in distorting this verse and clearly tell us how you came about that Jesus was telling people to go back to the laws of Moses. Also explain to us what it means by Jesus fulfilling the said laws.

So no — Muhammad didn't “preach Jesus’ gospel” because Jesus’ original gospel was the same essence as the Qur’an: La ilaha illa Allah (There is no god but Allah).
CreativeOrbit AntiChristian TenQ gohf

please explain how the gospel and Quran are the same essence but different as you are saying Muhammad didn't preach Jesus's original gospel which is the same essence as the Quran that he preach? Same essence but he preached something different, explain?

2. “Do you honor Muhammad more than Jesus?”

We honor both, but we worship neither — that’s the difference between Islam and Christianity.

jimrohn a university graduate who faced exams would realize that you failed this question. The question isn't if you honor them or not, but if you honor one more than the other. Jimrohn, do you realize how you have failed here. No one is asking you about Christianity, but you can't answer an Islamic question without referencing another religion. Is the basis of Islam Christianity? You would say no, but it shows you can't address a question without making such references even while not even understanding the question in the first place.

Jesus is one of the five greatest prophets in Islam. But Muhammad ﷺ is the final messenger — the one through whom the last and complete revelation was delivered. That doesn’t reduce the honor of Jesus — it clarifies the hierarchy of prophethood based on their roles. If you think honor equals divinity, that’s a problem with your theology, not ours.

now if it's a revelation to complete what God has been revealing, surely you should know the revelations from the beginning as well as the gospel and the final revelation, can you claim to be ignorant of other parts and still claim to have the whole because you have the final piece.

Now you look at yourself saying it clarifies the hierarchy of prophethood, which means one is greater than the other if you indeed were genuinely saying that it wasn't to reduce the honor of Jesus it's either you are stating he never had such honor or that hierarchy is just a mere number to how they came and not how they should be evaluated and honored. So your simple answer should have been yes we honor Muhammad above Jesus then followed by this explanation as to why that this. Franky it's your own problem if you assume someone's else makes a fallacy of claiming honor equals divinity. You are addressing someone without respectfully first enquiring of their theological believes. You can't answer questions properly because you are treating it like warfare which is sad and appalling.

3. “Adam was forgiven but cast out — so what was the point of forgiveness?”

Your confusion comes from treating God's forgiveness like a “reset button.” Being forgiven doesn’t erase all consequences — it removes the spiritual penalty, not the worldly effect.

Adam was forgiven — yes — but paradise was never meant to be his eternal home at that point. Earth was always the plan. His fall was not “original sin,” it was a mistake followed by repentance and elevation. Islam rejects the idea that all of mankind is born sinful because of Adam’s mistake — a toxic doctrine that paints God as unjust and man as inherently damned.

okay so if Adam's sin was not the first and original sin, who or what was the first sin based on Islam and the Quran?

I understand what you have written that Islam rejects the idea that all mankind is born sinful, but can you tell us why sins and falls into temptations if according to you man lacks a sinful nature?

Okay, you said elevation, so tell us elevation in what sense?

And another question which you can ignore since it wasn't you who said it, but apparently the Quran or Islam says Allah will throw all into hell, that should include Adam whom he has forgiven right?

4. “Aisha’s age: 9 or older?”

Aisha's age is used obsessively by Islamophobes who don’t care about context, history, or scholarship. Yes, some hadith report she was 9 at consummation — and these are found in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim, considered strong sources. However, classical and modern scholars have pointed to other evidence (like her involvement in battles, historical gaps, or statements by her relatives) that suggest a higher age.

But let’s get brutally honest: None of this was controversial until Western morality began to falsely universalize modern standards. In her society, this was normal, dignified, and unchallenged. You don’t get to retroactively impose your lens on 7th century Arabia while ignoring far worse age gaps in Christian Europe’s royal marriages.

And unless you’re ready to apply that same outrage to Solomon, David, or even Mary’s “engagement” to Joseph in your own religious texts, maybe sit this one out.

telling me to sit it out is pathetic. I personally do not care how old she was. Our Nigerian great grandfather's may have done same, but you had to pathetically do the same thing hypothetices do to Aisha to Mary as well just o justify what exactly. A level headed person would choose to understand how she could have been way older than some claim, it's funny that the Bible doesn't even mention the ages of women or wives but no way you calculate it and claim Mary was preteen.

5. “Did Jesus fail his assignment?”

This is pure ignorance — and no, Muslims do not believe Jesus failed. We believe his mission was interrupted, not failed. His return is part of completing that mission — not bringing new revelation, but affirming Islam, breaking the cross, and killing the false messiah (Dajjal).

Anyone who says “Jesus failed” is either misrepresenting Islam, or parroting half-baked statements. The failure lies in what people did with his message, not the message itself.

speak for yourself as you claimed some of you are purely ignorant, which I agree. Now based on your own view of his mission being interrupted clear to clarify how you came about that understanding? Is it because he left and is coming back?
So can we say that he succeeded his mission before he left, and you could also tell us what his mission from God was?

6. “Why did God create man according to the Qur’an?”

This one’s easy. Qur’an 51:56 —

> “And I did not create jinn and mankind except to worship Me.”

We were created for submission, worship, and moral responsibility — not to “fall” and then beg for salvation based on inherited sin. We’re here to prove ourselves, to be tested, and to return to our Creator.

You want a purpose? That’s it: Know God, submit to Him, live morally, die with faith.

lol you could have simply answered to worship God. But seeing how enthusiastic you are, why not tell us how God revealed that purpose to the first man, through Jesus and through Muhammad and tell us what does worship God mean, what does it mean to worship God.

7. “Why did God send Jesus?”

Because God sent prophets to every nation (Qur’an 16:36). Jesus was sent to the Children of Israel, as a reformer and a prophet, confirming the Torah and bringing the Injil. That’s Qur’an 3:49 and 61:6.

He was never sent to be crucified for sins he didn’t commit. He wasn’t sent to change God's law or start a new religion. He came to call his people to repentance and monotheism. Period.

Closing Note:

You claim to be asking out of ignorance, but the way your questions are framed shows loaded assumptions, subtle insults, and cherry-picked controversies. If you're sincere, fix your tone, read a Qur’an for once, and stop relying on internet polemics.

If you want truth, seek it. If you want to argue, be ready for the weight of a 1400-year-old religion with answers sharper than your questions.
CreativeOrbit AntiChristian TenQ gohf

You could have focused on the Quran and even quote the verses you mentioned. Anyway
Quran 16:36
For We assuredly sent amongst every People a messenger, (with the Command), “Serve Allah, and eschew Evil”: of the People were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth).

So this verse is saying a messenger, are you saying this messenger is Jesus based on the context of your answer? Yes or no?
If you say no, then does it mean messengers are sent from every nation, how does this line up with the final messenger when well there are new nations and no more messengers?

Quran 3:49
And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah . And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah . And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.

Now this verse doesn't state that he is only a messenger to the children of Israel.

Can we say that Muhammad was only a messenger to the middle east and people he spoke to?


Pardon me to add verse 50
And [I have come] confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear Allah and obey me.

Here isa, Jesus, clearly obey me. The question now is, the Muslims the disciples obeyed him, do you Muslims obey Jesus?

I don't see where it is written that you should disobey Jesus or that he is sent only to Israel or that because he is sent to Israel you should disobey him.

Quite frankly, if Allah could teach Jesus the Torah, there is no excuse for Muhammad not knowing the Torah and the gospel which are supposedly before the Quran.

Okay, the next verse you quoted Quran 61:6
And call to mind when Jesus, son of Mary, said: “O Children of Israel, I am Allah’s Messenger to you, I verify the Torah which has come before me, and I give you the glad tiding of a Messenger who shall come after me, his name being Ahmad.” Yet when he came to them with Clear Signs they said: “This is sheer trickery.”

This is amazing. Jesus says I give you the gospel of a messenger to come, his name is Ahmad.

Now if I am to assume the Ahmad is Muhammad and that Jesus is either calling him the gospel that is to come or that he is given them the glad tidings that Muhammad would also bring.

It still begs to be answer, the question what is the gospel preached and taught by Muhammad, what is the good news from the Quran?

gohf:
jimrohn a university graduate who faced exams would realize that you failed this question. The question isn't if you honor them or not, but if you honor one more than the other. Jimrohn, do you realize how you have failed here. No one is asking you about Christianity, but you can't answer an Islamic question without referencing another religion. Is the basis of Islam Christianity? You would say no, but it shows you can't address a question without making such references even while not even understanding the question in the first place.

now if it's a revelation to complete what God has been revealing, surely you should know the revelations from the beginning as well as the gospel and the final revelation, can you claim to be ignorant of other parts and still claim to have the whole because you have the final piece.

Now you look at yourself saying it clarifies the hierarchy of prophethood, which means one is greater than the other if you indeed were genuinely saying that it wasn't to reduce the honor of Jesus it's either you are stating he never had such honor or that hierarchy is just a mere number to how they came and not how they should be evaluated and honored. So your simple answer should have been yes we honor Muhammad above Jesus then followed by this explanation as to why that this. Franky it's your own problem if you assume someone's else makes a fallacy of claiming honor equals divinity. You are addressing someone without respectfully first enquiring of their theological believes. You can't answer questions properly because you are treating it like warfare which is sad and appalling.

okay so if Adam's sin was not the first and original sin, who or what was the first sin based on Islam and the Quran?

I understand what you have written that Islam rejects the idea that all mankind is born sinful, but can you tell us why sins and falls into temptations if according to you man lacks a sinful nature?

Okay, you said elevation, so tell us elevation in what sense?

And another question which you can ignore since it wasn't you who said it, but apparently the Quran or Islam says Allah will throw all into hell, that should include Adam whom he has forgiven right?

telling me to sit it out is pathetic. I personally do not care how old she was. Our Nigerian great grandfather's may have done same, but you had to pathetically do the same thing hypothetices do to Aisha to Mary as well just o justify what exactly. A level headed person would choose to understand how she could have been way older than some claim, it's funny that the Bible doesn't even mention the ages of women or wives but no way you calculate it and claim Mary was preteen.

speak for yourself as you claimed some of you are purely ignorant, which I agree. Now based on your own view of his mission being interrupted clear to clarify how you came about that understanding? Is it because he left and is coming back?
So can we say that he succeeded his mission before he left, and you could also tell us what his mission from God was?

lol you could have simply answered to worship God. But seeing how enthusiastic you are, why not tell us how God revealed that purpose to the first man, through Jesus and through Muhammad and tell us what does worship God mean, what does it mean to worship God.


You could have focused on the Quran and even quote the verses you mentioned. Anyway
Quran 16:36
For We assuredly sent amongst every People a messenger, (with the Command), “Serve Allah, and eschew Evil”: of the People were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth).

So this verse is saying a messenger, are you saying this messenger is Jesus based on the context of your answer? Yes or no?
If you say no, then does it mean messengers are sent from every nation, how does this line up with the final messenger when well there are new nations and no more messengers?

Quran 3:49
And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah . And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah . And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.

Now this verse doesn't state that he is only a messenger to the children of Israel.

Can we say that Muhammad was only a messenger to the middle east and people he spoke to?


Pardon me to add verse 50
And [I have come] confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear Allah and obey me.

Here isa, Jesus, clearly obey me. The question now is, the Muslims the disciples obeyed him, do you Muslims obey Jesus?

I don't see where it is written that you should disobey Jesus or that he is sent only to Israel or that because he is sent to Israel you should disobey him.

Quite frankly, if Allah could teach Jesus the Torah, there is no excuse for Muhammad not knowing the Torah and the gospel which are supposedly before the Quran.

Okay, the next verse you quoted Quran 61:6
And call to mind when Jesus, son of Mary, said: “O Children of Israel, I am Allah’s Messenger to you, I verify the Torah which has come before me, and I give you the glad tiding of a Messenger who shall come after me, his name being Ahmad.” Yet when he came to them with Clear Signs they said: “This is sheer trickery.”

This is amazing. Jesus says I give you the gospel of a messenger to come, his name is Ahmad.

Now if I am to assume the Ahmad is Muhammad and that Jesus is either calling him the gospel that is to come or that he is given them the glad tidings that Muhammad would also bring.

It still begs to be answer, the question what is the gospel preached and taught by Muhammad, what is the good news from the Quran?

Your barrage of rhetorical accusations and theological missteps betrays more heat than light. While you posture as if delivering a cross-examination, your actual argumentation reveals a profound misunderstanding of Islam, its epistemology, and its principles. So let me respond point by point—with clarity, directness, and without the diplomatic softening you clearly neither respect nor understand.

1. “You failed the question”—False Premise

You claim the question was whether we honor one prophet more than another. Islam is not Christianity, and unlike your framework where Christ’s elevation necessitates a demotion of others, Islam teaches prophetic hierarchy within the bounds of respect, not at the expense of any prophet's honor. Allah says:

> "These are the messengers; We have made some exceed others. Among them are those to whom Allah spoke, and He raised some of them in rank." (Qur’an 2:253)

Yes, Muhammad ﷺ is the final and greatest Prophet, but that does not entail a dishonor to Jesus, peace be upon him. Your assumption that hierarchy equals dishonor is your theological baggage, not ours. And if you are incapable of distinguishing between reverence and worship, that is your own confusion—not ours to bear.

2. “You can’t answer without referencing Christianity” — Misguided Critique

You brought up theological comparisons, so don’t recoil when we answer on those terms. Islam is the final revelation, and by definition, it clarifies and corrects what came before. That necessitates engaging with prior scriptures. Islam doesn't emerge in a vacuum—it refines and seals the Abrahamic message. Qur'an 5:48 makes this clear:

> "To you We revealed the Scripture in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and as a criterion over it...
If you bring Christianity into the room, don't complain when it's critically addressed.

3. “You can’t claim completeness without knowing the former books” — Strawman

You confuse the completeness of revelation with the memorization of past texts. The Qur’an affirms that the final revelation is self-contained and self-sufficient:

> "This day I have perfected for you your religion..." (Qur’an 5:3)

The Prophet ﷺ did not need to study corrupted scriptures to bring the truth. Revelation comes from the Source, not from books edited by human hands.

4. Original Sin & Human Nature in Islam — Distorted Understanding

Islam categorically rejects the doctrine of inherited sin. Every soul is born pure (fitrah) and accountable only for their own actions:

> "No bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another." (Qur’an 6:164)

We sin not because we are born evil, but because we are given free will and a lower self (nafs) to struggle against. Unlike Christian doctrine, we don’t see sin as a genetic curse but as a test.

As for the first sin—it was Iblis, not Adam. He disobeyed Allah by refusing to bow. Read Qur’an 2:34. Your question is answered by the very book you’re trying to challenge.

5. Elevation of Prophets — Clarified

Prophets are elevated in responsibility and rank, not in worship or honor that breaches the bounds of monotheism. Muhammad ﷺ is the seal of the prophets (Qur’an 33:40), but we do not set up competitions of divinity like the Trinity doctrines you are clearly more familiar with.

6. “All will be thrown into Hell” — Misquoted and Misunderstood

You are referring to a hadith or interpretation you have not understood. Yes, people will pass over Hell (Qur’an 19:71), but the righteous will be saved. Adam was forgiven. Your question about him being in Hell shows blatant ignorance of basic Qur'anic theology. Again, if you want to quote, do your homework.

7. Mary, Aisha, and Historical Honesty

You accuse Muslims of projecting modern morality into the past, but you did it first with your ridicule of Aisha’s age. The reality is, both Islamic and Christian history contain cultural norms you would never accept today. Don’t weaponize historical context when it suits you, and then call others pathetic for pointing out yours.

Also, your Bible is silent on Mary’s age, and ancient Jewish culture married young. If it troubles you now, that’s a modern problem—not a scriptural one.

8. Did Jesus Complete His Mission?

You said: “Was his mission interrupted?” Then answer this: If he was crucified (as you believe) and will return again (as Christians also believe), was the first visit sufficient or not? Islam holds he will return—not to "complete a failed mission," but to fulfill divine decree. That’s a very different paradigm. If your Christ succeeded, why is he coming back? Be consistent.

9. Do Muslims Obey Jesus?

Yes—we obey Jesus as a prophet of God, not as divine. His original message (Tawheed – worship God alone) is the same message as all prophets, including Muhammad ﷺ. The Qur’an states:

> “Say, [O Muhammad], ‘We believe in Allah and what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob… and what was given to Moses and Jesus...’” (Qur’an 2:136)

But we don’t obey later theological innovations falsely attributed to him by later councils and scribes. That is not "disobedience to Jesus," but obedience to the truth of Jesus.

10. Finality of Prophethood and New Nations

You cited Qur’an 16:36: "We sent a messenger to every nation..." Yes, and Muhammad ﷺ was sent to all mankind—hence, the need for no more messengers. Qur’an 34:28:

> “We have not sent you except to all of mankind, as a bringer of glad tidings and a warner.”

Islam is not limited to Arabs or the Middle East. It is global, universal, final.

11. “What is the Gospel Muhammad taught?”

Excellent question. The Arabic word Injeel (Gospel) refers to the original revelation given to Jesus—not the later texts compiled by anonymous authors. The “good news” Muhammad ﷺ brought is the final call to monotheism and mercy. It is this:

> “Say, Indeed, my Lord has guided me to a straight path—a correct religion, the way of Abraham, inclining toward truth. And he was not of the polytheists.” (Qur’an 6:161)

And that:

> “And We have not sent you [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds.” (Qur’an 21:107)

That is the good news: that guidance has come. Final, preserved, and universal.

Final Thought:

You have misrepresented Islam, misunderstood its message, and mishandled its scriptures. If you wish to debate, bring arguments—not arrogant diatribes. We don’t need to appeal to emotional manipulation or vague allegories. Islam is clear. Its message is clear. And our response to hostility is, as always, truth spoken with strength and clarity.

> “Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best…” (Qur’an 16:125)

But if your way is aggression and contempt, then don’t be surprised when we respond not with silence, but with knowledge, clarity, and strength.

CreativeOrbit AntiChristian TenQ gohf

JimRohn:
Your barrage of rhetorical accusations and theological missteps betrays more heat than light. While you posture as if delivering a cross-examination, your actual argumentation reveals a profound misunderstanding of Islam, its epistemology, and its principles. So let me respond point by point—with clarity, directness, and without the diplomatic softening you clearly neither respect nor understand.

1. “You failed the question”—False Premise

You claim the question was whether we honor one prophet more than another. Islam is not Christianity, and unlike your framework where Christ’s elevation necessitates a demotion of others, Islam teaches prophetic hierarchy within the bounds of respect, not at the expense of any prophet's honor. Allah says:

> "These are the messengers; We have made some exceed others. Among them are those to whom Allah spoke, and He raised some of them in rank." (Qur’an 2:253)

Yes, Muhammad ﷺ is the final and greatest Prophet, but that does not entail a dishonor to Jesus, peace be upon him. Your assumption that hierarchy equals dishonor is your theological baggage, not ours. And if you are incapable of distinguishing between reverence and worship, that is your own confusion—not ours to bear.

2. “You can’t answer without referencing Christianity” — Misguided Critique

You brought up theological comparisons, so don’t recoil when we answer on those terms. Islam is the final revelation, and by definition, it clarifies and corrects what came before. That necessitates engaging with prior scriptures. Islam doesn't emerge in a vacuum—it refines and seals the Abrahamic message. Qur'an 5:48 makes this clear:

> "To you We revealed the Scripture in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and as a criterion over it...
If you bring Christianity into the room, don't complain when it's critically addressed.

3. “You can’t claim completeness without knowing the former books” — Strawman

You confuse the completeness of revelation with the memorization of past texts. The Qur’an affirms that the final revelation is self-contained and self-sufficient:

> "This day I have perfected for you your religion..." (Qur’an 5:3)

The Prophet ﷺ did not need to study corrupted scriptures to bring the truth. Revelation comes from the Source, not from books edited by human hands.

4. Original Sin & Human Nature in Islam — Distorted Understanding

Islam categorically rejects the doctrine of inherited sin. Every soul is born pure (fitrah) and accountable only for their own actions:

> "No bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another." (Qur’an 6:164)

We sin not because we are born evil, but because we are given free will and a lower self (nafs) to struggle against. Unlike Christian doctrine, we don’t see sin as a genetic curse but as a test.

As for the first sin—it was Iblis, not Adam. He disobeyed Allah by refusing to bow. Read Qur’an 2:34. Your question is answered by the very book you’re trying to challenge.

5. Elevation of Prophets — Clarified

Prophets are elevated in responsibility and rank, not in worship or honor that breaches the bounds of monotheism. Muhammad ﷺ is the seal of the prophets (Qur’an 33:40), but we do not set up competitions of divinity like the Trinity doctrines you are clearly more familiar with.

6. “All will be thrown into Hell” — Misquoted and Misunderstood

You are referring to a hadith or interpretation you have not understood. Yes, people will pass over Hell (Qur’an 19:71), but the righteous will be saved. Adam was forgiven. Your question about him being in Hell shows blatant ignorance of basic Qur'anic theology. Again, if you want to quote, do your homework.

7. Mary, Aisha, and Historical Honesty

You accuse Muslims of projecting modern morality into the past, but you did it first with your ridicule of Aisha’s age. The reality is, both Islamic and Christian history contain cultural norms you would never accept today. Don’t weaponize historical context when it suits you, and then call others pathetic for pointing out yours.

Also, your Bible is silent on Mary’s age, and ancient Jewish culture married young. If it troubles you now, that’s a modern problem—not a scriptural one.

8. Did Jesus Complete His Mission?

You said: “Was his mission interrupted?” Then answer this: If he was crucified (as you believe) and will return again (as Christians also believe), was the first visit sufficient or not? Islam holds he will return—not to "complete a failed mission," but to fulfill divine decree. That’s a very different paradigm. If your Christ succeeded, why is he coming back? Be consistent.

9. Do Muslims Obey Jesus?

Yes—we obey Jesus as a prophet of God, not as divine. His original message (Tawheed – worship God alone) is the same message as all prophets, including Muhammad ﷺ. The Qur’an states:

> “Say, [O Muhammad], ‘We believe in Allah and what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob… and what was given to Moses and Jesus...’” (Qur’an 2:136)

But we don’t obey later theological innovations falsely attributed to him by later councils and scribes. That is not "disobedience to Jesus," but obedience to the truth of Jesus.

10. Finality of Prophethood and New Nations

You cited Qur’an 16:36: "We sent a messenger to every nation..." Yes, and Muhammad ﷺ was sent to all mankind—hence, the need for no more messengers. Qur’an 34:28:

> “We have not sent you except to all of mankind, as a bringer of glad tidings and a warner.”

Islam is not limited to Arabs or the Middle East. It is global, universal, final.

11. “What is the Gospel Muhammad taught?”

Excellent question. The Arabic word Injeel (Gospel) refers to the original revelation given to Jesus—not the later texts compiled by anonymous authors. The “good news” Muhammad ﷺ brought is the final call to monotheism and mercy. It is this:

> “Say, Indeed, my Lord has guided me to a straight path—a correct religion, the way of Abraham, inclining toward truth. And he was not of the polytheists.” (Qur’an 6:161)

And that:

> “And We have not sent you [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds.” (Qur’an 21:107)

That is the good news: that guidance has come. Final, preserved, and universal.

Final Thought:

You have misrepresented Islam, misunderstood its message, and mishandled its scriptures. If you wish to debate, bring arguments—not arrogant diatribes. We don’t need to appeal to emotional manipulation or vague allegories. Islam is clear. Its message is clear. And our response to hostility is, as always, truth spoken with strength and clarity.

> “Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best…” (Qur’an 16:125)

But if your way is aggression and contempt, then don’t be surprised when we respond not with silence, but with knowledge, clarity, and strength.

CreativeOrbit AntiChristian TenQ gohf

You make some fundamental assumptions
1. Who is ISA? For as Christians and Jews, we don't know him!
2. Who is Allah? We look in the Scriptures used by the Jews and Christians and we don't know him!

You say someone cannot answer your questions without referencing Christianity BUT can you answer yours without referencing Christianity or Judaism?

As an Example:
1. Who is Israel in the Qur'an?
2. What is the meaning of the names Gabriel and Ishmael?

You misquoted
"This day I have perfected for you your religion..." (Qur’an 5:3)
For it is completely untrue!






Please, if you have questions, throw them to me. But also be ready to answer my own questions.

It is glaring to see that it is IMPOSSIBLE that BOTH Christianity and Islam lead to paradise
Do you agree with this statement?


I dislike lies:
According to Qur'an 19:71-72 ALL Muslims will enter the fire at least temporarily . It is a decree of Allah!

TenQ:
You make some fundamental assumptions
1. Who is ISA? For as Christians and Jews, we don't know him!
2. Who is Allah? We look in the Scriptures used by the Jews and Christians and we don't know him!

You say someone cannot answer your questions without referencing Christianity BUT can you answer yours without referencing Christianity or Judaism?

As an Example:
1. Who is Israel in the Qur'an?
2. What is the meaning of the names Gabriel and Ishmael?

You misquoted
"This day I have perfected for you your religion..." (Qur’an 5:3)
For it is completely untrue!






Please, if you have questions, throw them to me. But also be ready to answer my own questions.

It is glaring to see that it is IMPOSSIBLE that BOTH Christianity and Islam lead to paradise
Do you agree with this statement?


I dislike lies:
According to Qur'an 19:71-72 ALL Muslims will enter the fire at least temporarily . It is a decree of Allah!

Your message is filled with assumptions, misinterpretations, and a tone that demands clarity and correction. So allow me to respond directly and systematically, as a Muslim who stands firmly by the truth of the Qur’an and the finality of Islam.

1. "Who is Isa? We don’t know him!"

That is a deficiency in your own theological framework, not in the Qur’an. Isa (peace be upon him) is the Arabic name for Jesus, son of Mary—the same historical figure revered in Christianity. The difference lies in the Islamic understanding: we reject any claim of divinity assigned to him, as it contradicts the absolute oneness of God. If you claim not to "know him," then you deny your own Scriptures that speak of him.

2. "Who is Allah? We don’t know him!"

Again, this reveals a lack of linguistic and historical awareness. "Allah" is the Arabic word for God, used by Arab Christians and Jews centuries before Islam. Even Christian Arabs today refer to God as "Allah." The Qur’an teaches pure monotheism (Tawheed), which is the same message that was originally brought by Abraham, Moses, and Jesus—before it was altered and distorted by men.

3. "Can you answer your questions without referencing Christianity or Judaism?"

Yes. Islam does not depend on the validation of previous scriptures that were tampered with. However, the Qur’an corrects and confirms the parts of the previous revelations that were true. Our sources are independent in authenticity and superior in preservation. The Qur’an challenges mankind to produce anything like it—not one verse has been matched in 1,400 years.

4. "Who is Israel in the Qur’an?"

Israel refers to Ya'qub (Jacob, peace be upon him)—this is well established in Islamic tradition. It is neither mysterious nor ambiguous. This knowledge is from revelation, not speculation.

5. "What is the meaning of the names Gabriel and Ishmael?"

The meanings of names are not religious proofs. Yes, Gabriel (Jibril) means "God is my strength" and Ishmael (Isma'il) means "God will hear." These are Hebrew names, and Islam affirms the lineage of many prophets from the same Semitic background. But meanings of names have zero bearing on the truth or falsehood of belief.

6. "You misquoted Qur'an 5:3..."

No misquote occurred. The verse states:

> "This day I have perfected for you your religion, completed My favor upon you, and have approved for you Islam as your religion." (Qur'an 5:3)

This is clear and direct. If you deny it, then you deny what has been preserved word-for-word for over 14 centuries—unlike the Bible, which has over 30,000 textual variants in the New Testament manuscripts alone.

7. "It is impossible that both Christianity and Islam lead to Paradise. Do you agree?"

Yes, I agree. Truth is not relative. Two contradictory paths cannot both lead to salvation. Islam categorically rejects the divinity of Jesus, the Trinity, and salvation through crucifixion. Christianity affirms those. One must be right; the other must be wrong. Islam is the final and preserved truth, and the Qur’an is its undeniable proof.

8. "According to Qur’an 19:71-72, all Muslims will enter the Fire temporarily."

You deliberately distort the verse. The passage says:

> “And there is none of you except he will pass over it (the Hellfire); this is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed. Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees.” (Qur’an 19:71–72)

Passing over the Fire does not mean entering it and being punished. The verse clearly distinguishes between the righteous who are saved and the wrongdoers who remain. This "crossing over" is part of the Final Judgment. Stop misrepresenting what the verse says—especially without understanding the Arabic or classical exegesis.

Conclusion

If you truly "dislike lies," then start by rejecting misquotations, theological arrogance, and misrepresentations of Islam. I welcome sincere questions, but if your goal is provocation, know that we are not intimidated by hostile rhetoric.

Islam stands on truth, clarity, and preservation—unshaken by the distortions of man-made theology.

honesttalk21 BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh

JimRohn:
1. "Who is Isa? We don’t know him!"

That is a deficiency in your own theological framework, not in the Qur’an. Isa (peace be upon him) is the Arabic name for Jesus, son of Mary—the same historical figure revered in Christianity. The difference lies in the Islamic understanding: we reject any claim of divinity assigned to him, as it contradicts the absolute oneness of God. If you claim not to "know him," then you deny your own Scriptures that speak of him.



honesttalk21 BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh

jimrohn be honest like you assume yourself to be and tell us what does the name Jesus, which is Isa in Arabic, mean?

Just the way you wrote the meaning for Gabriel and Jubril, please tell us truthfully what does Jesus mean?

JimRohn:
Your message is filled with assumptions, misinterpretations, and a tone that demands clarity and correction. So allow me to respond directly and systematically, as a Muslim who stands firmly by the truth of the Qur’an and the finality of Islam.

1. "Who is Isa? We don’t know him!"

That is a deficiency in your own theological framework, not in the Qur’an. Isa (peace be upon him) is the Arabic name for Jesus, son of Mary—the same historical figure revered in Christianity. The difference lies in the Islamic understanding: we reject any claim of divinity assigned to him, as it contradicts the absolute oneness of God. If you claim not to "know him," then you deny your own Scriptures that speak of him.

The Arabic name of Jesus is NOT Isa BUT Yasu'a
Mark 1:1
بِدَايَةُ إِنْجِيلِ يَسُوعَ ٱلْمَسِيحِ ٱبْنِ ٱللّٰهِ

1. Can you explain why the Islam calls Jesus by a strange name Arab Christians do not call their Jesus?
2. So, again, Who is ISA?
3. What is the meaning of His name ISA and His Name Ye'shua?

JimRohn:
2. "Who is Allah? We don’t know him!"

Again, this reveals a lack of linguistic and historical awareness. "Allah" is the Arabic word for God, used by Arab Christians and Jews centuries before Islam. Even Christian Arabs today refer to God as "Allah." The Qur’an teaches pure monotheism (Tawheed), which is the same message that was originally brought by Abraham, Moses, and Jesus—before it was altered and distorted by men.

I am sure you know that Allah is GENERIC for Deity like "God" in English language. The question is which Allah or Illah?

However, the name of your God is Allah it is NOT the title of your God.
The name of the God (Illah) of the Jews is YHWH!
The name of the God (Illah) of the Christians is YHWH!
Is the name of the God (Allah) of the Muslims is YHWH?


If it is NOT, who is your Allah as we don't know him!

JimRohn:
3. "Can you answer your questions without referencing Christianity or Judaism?"

Yes. Islam does not depend on the validation of previous scriptures that were tampered with. However, the Qur’an corrects and confirms the parts of the previous revelations that were true. Our sources are independent in authenticity and superior in preservation. The Qur’an challenges mankind to produce anything like it—not one verse has been matched in 1,400 years.

So, who is Abraham: where did he come from?
Who is Moses?
Who is David?

You don't need to validate anything, you just have to be able to stand alone without referencing the God and prophet of others.

JimRohn:
4. "Who is Israel in the Qur’an?"

Israel refers to Ya'qub (Jacob, peace be upon him)—this is well established in Islamic tradition. It is neither mysterious nor ambiguous. This knowledge is from revelation, not speculation.

I challenge you to give me just one proof from the Qur'an that Israel is Ya'qub and I will recite my shahada.

Allah doesn't even know who Israel is in the Qur'an.
Did Islamic traditions take their history from Allah or from the Jews and Christians?

Shouldn't Allah introduce Isra-el before speaking about his children?

Is it untrue that Allah forgot to say who Israel is in his Qur'an?

JimRohn:
5. "What is the meaning of the names Gabriel and Ishmael?"

The meanings of names are not religious proofs. Yes, Gabriel (Jibril) means "God is my strength" and Ishmael (Isma'il) means "God will hear." These are Hebrew names, and Islam affirms the lineage of many prophets from the same Semitic background. But meanings of names have zero bearing on the truth or falsehood of belief.

I did not ask you for any proof of any thing. I asked you a simple question.

Is this a sufficient proof for you to see that IL- or EL- or AL- in their names is the title "GOD"!?



If this is true, what then would be the meaning of
Al-LAH
Al-Lat
Al-Manat

Can you see how the male of your Deity is LAH!?

JimRohn:
6. "You misquoted Qur'an 5:3..."

No misquote occurred. The verse states:

> "This day I have perfected for you your religion, completed My favor upon you, and have approved for you Islam as your religion." (Qur'an 5:3)

If you are correct, Quran 5:3 should be the last verse according to revelation in your Qur'an but is this true?
According to revelation, was this the last verse of the Qur'an?

If Quran 5:3 is NOT the last verse of the Qur'an, explain why your religion still received lots of Qur'an when it was already perfected as by the revelation of the verse.

JimRohn:
This is clear and direct. If you deny it, then you deny what has been preserved word-for-word for over 14 centuries—unlike the Bible, which has over 30,000 textual variants in the New Testament manuscripts alone.

So, you believe this LIE by Islamic scholars?
Tell me,
Is Hafs Qur'an preserved word for word with the Warsh Qur'an

Are you aware that there are up to 32 different Arabic Qur'ans in existence?

Is the the Quran of Ibn Masud identical to the Uthmanic Quran?

JimRohn:
7. "It is impossible that both Christianity and Islam lead to Paradise. Do you agree?"

Yes, I agree. Truth is not relative. Two contradictory paths cannot both lead to salvation. Islam categorically rejects the divinity of Jesus, the Trinity, and salvation through crucifixion. Christianity affirms those. One must be right; the other must be wrong. Islam is the final and preserved truth, and the Qur’an is its undeniable proof.

I agree with you here. The truth is NOT relative. The fact that a Truth is difficult for you to understand doesn't change its status. A truth is not necessarily simple. But it is NOT relative.

To know the Truth, you may need to search and contrast while asking Questions.

Jn 8:32:
"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
Jesus says He Himself is the WAY and the TRUTH.

John 14:6:
"Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth , and the life : no man comes to the Father, but by me."

Note:
The title deeds to a property may look good on paper, but in questioning and verifying will you find the truth and not be scammed.

Satan goes about deceiving people into falsehood and most are sincerely deceived.

For Islam to be true, it is a must to take your research to the Jewish and Christian scriptures since Allah says that he gave them his scriptures.

JimRohn:
8. "According to Qur’an 19:71-72, all Muslims will enter the Fire temporarily."

You deliberately distort the verse. The passage says:

> “And there is none of you except he will pass over it (the Hellfire); this is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed. Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees.” (Qur’an 19:71–72)

Passing over the Fire does not mean entering it and being punished. The verse clearly distinguishes between the righteous who are saved and the wrongdoers who remain. This "crossing over" is part of the Final Judgment. Stop misrepresenting what the verse says—especially without understanding the Arabic or classical exegesis.

Conclusion

If you truly "dislike lies," then start by rejecting misquotations, theological arrogance, and misrepresentations of Islam. I welcome sincere questions, but if your goal is provocation, know that we are not intimidated by hostile rhetoric.

Islam stands on truth, clarity, and preservation—unshaken by the distortions of man-made theology.

honesttalk21 BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh

I challenge you to give me the Arabic word for "pass over it" and I will convert to Islam today.

Quran 19:71
وَإِن مِّنكُمْ إِلَّا وَارِدُهَا ۚ كَانَ عَلَىٰ رَبِّكَ حَتْمًا مَّقْضِيًّا

What is the meaning of وَارِدُهَا ?


Qur'an 19:71
There is not one of you who will not go down to it (the Fire), that is a fixed Decree of your Lord

Meaning that ALL Muslims will at least first be in Hell Fire.

Quran 19:72
Then, We will save those who were cautious of Us, but the harmdoers shall be left there hobbling on their knees

After ALL you Muslims enter the Fire, THEN Allah will THEREAFTER remove the good Muslims and leave other people in the Fire

JimRohn:
Your barrage of rhetorical accusations and theological missteps betrays more heat than light. While you posture as if delivering a cross-examination, your actual argumentation reveals a profound misunderstanding of Islam, its epistemology, and its principles. So let me respond point by point—with clarity, directness, and without the diplomatic softening you clearly neither respect nor understand.

1. “You failed the question”—False Premise

You claim the question was whether we honor one prophet more than another. Islam is not Christianity, and unlike your framework where Christ’s elevation necessitates a demotion of others, Islam teaches prophetic hierarchy within the bounds of respect, not at the expense of any prophet's honor. Allah says:

> "These are the messengers; We have made some exceed others. Among them are those to whom Allah spoke, and He raised some of them in rank." (Qur’an 2:253)

Yes, Muhammad ﷺ is the final and greatest Prophet, but that does not entail a dishonor to Jesus, peace be upon him. Your assumption that hierarchy equals dishonor is your theological baggage, not ours. And if you are incapable of distinguishing between reverence and worship, that is your own confusion—not ours to bear.

2. “You can’t answer without referencing Christianity” — Misguided Critique

You brought up theological comparisons, so don’t recoil when we answer on those terms. Islam is the final revelation, and by definition, it clarifies and corrects what came before. That necessitates engaging with prior scriptures. Islam doesn't emerge in a vacuum—it refines and seals the Abrahamic message. Qur'an 5:48 makes this clear:

> "To you We revealed the Scripture in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and as a criterion over it...
If you bring Christianity into the room, don't complain when it's critically addressed.






CreativeOrbit AntiChristian

lol 😂 lmao 🤣 "betrays more heat than light" so we are not betraying heat, or is it protray you wanted to use. 😁 You think you are writing poetry right?
If one is feeling hot and can't see the light, it's because blindness has landed that person inside fire 😆

You failed the question the evidence was stated there, calling it a false premise shows you can't even own up to an obvious failure. But it's okay, your point is,

"Islam teaches prophetic hierarchy" So yes you honor Muhammad more than Jesus because you believe "he is the final and greatest prophet.

Yet you are accusing me of, in your words, "your assumption that hierarchy equals dishonor is your theological baggage, not ours."

Like 😂😂😂 guy can you even keep track of your own words and point. It's like you are calling yourself who brought up the hierarchy, dishonorable and I don't disagree with you that you are that though.

Like it's tiring reading all your words, it's like sorting through the bin, to find a pin.. your response to why you can't answer without referencing Christianity is, "You brought up theological comparisons, so don’t recoil when we answer on those terms. Islam is the final revelation"

😂 Please jimrohn bring out where I, golf brought up theological comparison" looking I am not recoiling I am here waiting for you to show us honestly and truthful your claim that I did so 😁😀

This is what I wrote Jim, "No one is asking you about Christianity, but you can't answer an Islamic question without referencing another religion."

And this is what you wrote "“You can’t answer without referencing Christianity” — Misguided Critique"

Who is the misguided one here with evidence Jim Jim. We expect you to at least stay true to the conversation and what you read but even that seems hard so how are we to trust your evaluation?

You want to reveal scriptures in truth when you don't even reveal my posts in truth, that's not fair now. 😀


Lol okay show us the Christianity I brought into the room and how you criticized it and how I complained about it. Or it all you do false accusations like your book🥺

JimRohn:
3. “You can’t claim completeness without knowing the former books” — Strawman

You confuse the completeness of revelation with the memorization of past texts. The Qur’an affirms that the final revelation is self-contained and self-sufficient:

> "This day I have perfected for you your religion..." (Qur’an 5:3)

The Prophet ﷺ did not need to study corrupted scriptures to bring the truth. Revelation comes from the Source, not from books edited by human hands.


CreativeOrbit AntiChristian

so according to you the Torah which the Quran mentions several times and which Jesus confirmed is corrupted... Because it was edited by human hands. Who edited the Quran you are quoting was it angels? 😂

Your answer, explanation and proof is that the Quran it's says so 😆😂😆😂😆😂

Even the Quran 5:3 you cut out off, doesn't support your point that the Quran is self sufficient 🤣🤣

Now you are responding that Muhammad had no knowledge of the previous to even make what he wrote a complete version. So according to you one can claim to be ignorant and still make a complete text.

Does the Quran not refer to the Torah and encourages Muslims to check it for guidance, wisdom, and confirmation, particularly regarding the teachings of prophets and the law. The Quran views the Torah as a previous revelation from God to Moses, containing divine words and teachings.

Several Quran verses direct Muslims to the Torah. One such verse is Surah Al-Ma'idah, verse 44 (5:44), which emphasizes that the Torah is a law from God that should be followed. This verse also mentions that those who do not judge by the law sent down by God are disbelievers, unjust, and transgressors. Another relevant verse is Surah 3:3 (Family of `Imran), which states that God sent down the Torah as a guide to mankind. Additionally, Surah Al-Ma'idah, verse 46 (5:46), discusses Jesus confirming the Torah and the Gospel.

JimRohn:
4. Original Sin & Human Nature in Islam — Distorted Understanding

Islam categorically rejects the doctrine of inherited sin. Every soul is born pure (fitrah) and accountable only for their own actions:

> "No bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another." (Qur’an 6:164)

We sin not because we are born evil, but because we are given free will and a lower self (nafs) to struggle against. Unlike Christian doctrine, we don’t see sin as a genetic curse but as a test.

As for the first sin—it was Iblis, not Adam. He disobeyed Allah by refusing to bow. Read Qur’an 2:34. Your question is answered by the very book you’re trying to challenge.


CreativeOrbit AntiChristian

well who told you Christian doctrine teaches us that sin is a genetic curse, is that what your Muslims tell you that pastors teach?

And I am not asking you about Christianity am I or are you saying you can't teach an Islamic doctrine without making Christian references 😁 😁 😁

You see how you are responding to a question, what was the first sin

And that
I understand what you have written that Islam rejects the idea that all mankind is born sinful, but can you tell us why sins and falls into temptations if according to you man lacks a sinful nature?

So you are saying that every human is born with nafs, as part of their nature.


If sin is the wrong someone does, it's not logical to assume that a person can an inherit actions. But we if are speaking about the consequences of those actions of those sins, then yes, it was a debate that people could inherit the consequences of their parents mistakes. Na in religion, like Islam you teach the nafs, and you are given the opportunity to tells us more about it instead of making references to another religion.


😂
And behold, We said to the angels: “Bow down to Adam” and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith.

This is the verse doesn't state that iblis is the first nor the origin of sin, does it? Did sin come and begin with iblis?

JimRohn:
8. Did Jesus Complete His Mission?

You said: “Was his mission interrupted?” Then answer this: If he was crucified (as you believe) and will return again (as Christians also believe), was the first visit sufficient or not? Islam holds he will return—not to "complete a failed mission," but to fulfill divine decree. That’s a very different paradigm. If your Christ succeeded, why is he coming back? Be consistent.



CreativeOrbit AntiChristian

You asked was the first visit of Jesus sufficient, according to christains? The answer is yes.
Why is he coming back to fulfill God's word and save those who obeyed God.

I answered your questions but these were questions I asked you

"Now based on your own view of his mission being interrupted clear to clarify how you came about that understanding? Is it because he left and is coming back?
So can we say that he succeeded his mission before he left, and you could also tell us what his mission from God was?"

Even though you first claimed he did not fail, but now you call it a failed mission. 😏

JimRohn:
9. Do Muslims Obey Jesus?

Yes—we obey Jesus as a prophet of God, not as divine. His original message (Tawheed – worship God alone) is the same message as all prophets, including Muhammad ﷺ. The Qur’an states:

> “Say, [O Muhammad], ‘We believe in Allah and what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob… and what was given to Moses and Jesus...’” (Qur’an 2:136)

But we don’t obey later theological innovations falsely attributed to him by later councils and scribes. That is not "disobedience to Jesus," but obedience to the truth of Jesus.

you say you obey Jesus, the command of Jesus is this love God and love your neighbor as yourself, love your enemies bless and not curse. And of these or which other ones do you call "later theological innovations falsely attributeed to Jesus"?

By the way you avoid many questions, one of which was, what is worship? What does it mean to worship God?

This was how I put the question
why not tell us how God revealed that purpose to the first man, through Jesus and through Muhammad and tell us what does worship God mean, what does it mean to worship God?


CreativeOrbit AntiChristian TenQ gohf

JimRohn:
10. Finality of Prophethood and New Nations

You cited Qur’an 16:36: "We sent a messenger to every nation..." Yes, and Muhammad ﷺ was sent to all mankind—hence, the need for no more messengers. Qur’an 34:28:

> “We have not sent you except to all of mankind, as a bringer of glad tidings and a warner.”

Islam is not limited to Arabs or the Middle East. It is global, universal, final.

11. “What is the Gospel Muhammad taught?”

Excellent question. The Arabic word Injeel (Gospel) refers to the original revelation given to Jesus—not the later texts compiled by anonymous authors. The “good news” Muhammad ﷺ brought is the final call to monotheism and mercy. It is this:

> “Say, Indeed, my Lord has guided me to a straight path—a correct religion, the way of Abraham, inclining toward truth. And he was not of the polytheists.” (Qur’an 6:161)

And that:

> “And We have not sent you [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds.” (Qur’an 21:107)

That is the good news: that guidance has come. Final, preserved, and universal.

Final Thought:

You have misrepresented Islam, misunderstood its message, and mishandled its scriptures. If you wish to debate, bring arguments—not arrogant diatribes. We don’t need to appeal to emotional manipulation or vague allegories. Islam is clear. Its message is clear. And our response to hostility is, as always, truth spoken with strength and clarity.

> “Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best…” (Qur’an 16:125)

But if your way is aggression and contempt, then don’t be surprised when we respond not with silence, but with knowledge, clarity, and strength.

CreativeOrbit AntiChristian TenQ gohf

Quran 16:35 says messengerS 😂😆😂 you are supposed to be honest and know the Quran more than me right?

But what is the mission of messengers but to preach the Clear Message?

And We certainly sent into every nation a messenger, [saying],.... A messenger not the messenger 😏

This is what I asked you, "does it mean messengers are sent from every nation, how does this line up with the final messenger when well there are new nations and no more messengers?"

But you change the meaning of the text by patching in Quran 34:28 which calls Muhammad the bringer of the gospel to the world, which agrees with a prophecy that Quran states Jesus made. The issue now is what then is the gospel of Muhammad I have asked the question repeatedly.

None of this verses claim not call Muhammed the last and final prophet.

Is there a verse that says Muhammad is the last and final prophet of Allah and is the greatest as you claim?


I will repeat this question again, what is the good news of Muhammad.

The good news that there is one God is not even news.

The good news is that guidance has come, guidance to what? What is the guidance that there is only one God, how is that guidance that's information.

Or you are specifically telling you that Muhammad was sent as the seal of prophets that you claim means final last and greatest prophet, was to tell the world that there is only one God, and that's the gospel.

gohf:
so according to you the Torah which the Quran mentions several times and which Jesus confirmed is corrupted... Because it was edited by human hands. Who edited the Quran you are quoting was it angels? 😂

Your answer, explanation and proof is that the Quran it's says so 😆😂😆😂😆😂

Even the Quran 5:3 you cut out off, doesn't support your point that the Quran is self sufficient 🤣🤣

Now you are responding that Muhammad had no knowledge of the previous to even make what he wrote a complete version. So according to you one can claim to be ignorant and still make a complete text.

Does the Quran not refer to the Torah and encourages Muslims to check it for guidance, wisdom, and confirmation, particularly regarding the teachings of prophets and the law. The Quran views the Torah as a previous revelation from God to Moses, containing divine words and teachings.

Several Quran verses direct Muslims to the Torah. One such verse is Surah Al-Ma'idah, verse 44 (5:44), which emphasizes that the Torah is a law from God that should be followed. This verse also mentions that those who do not judge by the law sent down by God are disbelievers, unjust, and transgressors. Another relevant verse is Surah 3:3 (Family of `Imran), which states that God sent down the Torah as a guide to mankind. Additionally, Surah Al-Ma'idah, verse 46 (5:46), discusses Jesus confirming the Torah and the Gospel.

Your entire argument collapses under the weight of its own contradictions and ignorance. So let me dismantle your claims piece by piece.

> "According to you the Torah which the Quran mentions several times and which Jesus confirmed is corrupted..."

Yes, and not according to me, but according to the Quran itself. Allah says:

> "So woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, then say, 'This is from Allah,' to trade it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn."
[Surah Al-Baqarah 2:79]

This verse directly condemns human tampering of divine scripture. So your attempt to weaponize Quranic references to the Torah against the Quran only exposes your inability to grasp what you're quoting.

Yes, the Torah was originally a divine revelation. But no, the current version held by Jews and Christians is not that same original revelation. That’s why the Quran affirms the Torah in its original form, but also criticizes those who altered it.

> "Who edited the Quran you are quoting? Was it angels? 😂"

No editing needed. Unlike your corrupted scriptures, the Quran was orally revealed, memorized by thousands, and written down meticulously during the lifetime of the Prophet ﷺ — and then compiled by the Companions under the Caliph Abu Bakr and finalized under Uthman (رضي الله عنهم). So yes, angels brought it, and Allah promised to preserve it Himself:

> "Indeed, We sent down the Dhikr (the Quran), and indeed, We will be its Guardian."
[Surah Al-Hijr 15:9]

So laugh all you want — but you're laughing at Allah’s guarantee, not mine. That’s a war you won’t win.

> "Even the Quran 5:3 you cut out off, doesn't support your point that the Quran is self sufficient 🤣🤣"

Clearly you didn’t even read 5:3 properly:

> "This day I have perfected for you your religion, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."
[Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:3]

Perfected. Completed. Chosen.
What part of that don’t you understand? When a system is perfected, you don’t need to go backward to corrupted texts for confirmation or guidance. The Quran supersedes all prior scriptures. That’s not my claim — that’s explicit revelation.

> "Now you're responding that Muhammad had no knowledge of the previous [books]..."

Exactly. And that’s part of the miracle. The Prophet Muhammad ﷺ was unlettered (ummi) — he couldn’t read or write, and he didn’t have access to Jewish or Christian scripture. Yet he brought a book that corrects their errors, exposes their corruptions, and establishes eternal guidance. That’s not “ignorance,” that’s divine revelation.

> "Does the Quran not refer to the Torah and encourages Muslims to check it for guidance..."

No, the Quran refers to the original revelation, not the mutilated versions preserved by priests and rabbis. You're cherry-picking without context. When the Quran speaks about previous scriptures, it is acknowledging their original divine origin — not affirming the distorted versions in your hands today.

In fact, the Quran warns us not to be fooled:

> "And indeed, among them is a party who distort the Book with their tongues so that you may think it is from the Book, but it is not from the Book."
[Surah Aal-Imran 3:78]

So when Jesus is said to “confirm the Torah,” it refers to the original revelation, not your modern redacted editions full of contradictions, incest, anthropomorphism, and tribal bias.

In conclusion:

The Quran is self-sufficient and final. It abrogates prior scriptures.

The Torah and Gospel were divine, but no longer exist in their original form.

You appeal to corrupt texts to attack a book you clearly haven't studied.

The Quran speaks with divine clarity. Your argument speaks with desperation and confusion.

So the next time you try to mock the Quran with memes and emojis, bring something stronger than laughter and misquotations. You’re punching up — and it shows.

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