₦airaland Forum

honesttalk21:
I will appreciate the you inform what the relevance of this to your title/original post about the preservation of the Quran.

I have dismantled all your views against it and correctly explained what you misunderstand.

You however refuse to accept being undone and only seem to be needlessly prolonging your thread.

Open another with this question if there is really something you intend to understand or show about it.

Otherwise it has been proven that the revelation for recitation through prophet Muhammad pbuh has been preserved and remains useful in that light.

That every claim of Mohammed about Jibril was a fraud! Didn't Jibril dictate the Qur'an to Mohammed?

The hadith Sahih al-Bukhari 3938 proves it!

Sahih al-Bukhari 3938
Narrated Anas:
When the news of the arrival of the Prophet (ﷺ) at Medina reached `Abdullah bin Salam, he went to him to ask him about certain things, He said, "I am going to ask you about three things which only a Prophet can answer: What is the first sign of The Hour? What is the first food which the people of Paradise will eat? Why does a child attract the similarity to his father or to his mother?" The Prophet (ﷺ) replied, "Gabriel has just now informed me of that." Ibn Salam said, "He (i.e. Gabriel) is the enemy of the Jews amongst the angels. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "As for the first sign of The Hour, it will be a fire that will collect the people from the East to the West. As for the first meal which the people of Paradise will eat, it will be the caudate (extra) lobe of the fish-liver. As for the child, if the man's discharge proceeds the woman's discharge, the child attracts the similarity to the man, and if the woman's discharge proceeds the man's, then the child attracts the similarity to the woman." On this, `Abdullah bin Salam said, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, and that you are the Messenger of Allah." and added, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Jews invent such lies as make one astonished, so please ask them about me before they know about my conversion to I slam . " The Jews came, and the Prophet (ﷺ)said, "What kind of man is `Abdullah bin Salam among you?" They replied, "The best of us and the son of the best of us and the most superior among us, and the son of the most superior among us. "The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "What would you think if `Abdullah bin Salam should embrace Islam?" They said, "May Allah protect him from that." The Prophet (ﷺ) repeated his question and they gave the same answer. Then `Abdullah came out to them and said, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah!" On this, the Jews said, "He is the most wicked among us and the son of the most wicked among us." So they degraded him. On this, he (i.e. `Abdullah bin Salam) said, "It is this that I was afraid of, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ).


Tell me honesttalk21,
What is wrong with this hadith and how can we know if Mohammed was speaking the truth about Jibril or not?

TenQ:
That every claim of Mohammed about Jibril was a fraud! Didn't Jibril dictate the Qur'an to Mohammed?

The hadith Sahih al-Bukhari 3938 proves it!

Sahih al-Bukhari 3938
Narrated Anas:
When the news of the arrival of the Prophet (ﷺ) at Medina reached `Abdullah bin Salam, he went to him to ask him about certain things, He said, "I am going to ask you about three things which only a Prophet can answer: What is the first sign of The Hour? What is the first food which the people of Paradise will eat? Why does a child attract the similarity to his father or to his mother?" The Prophet (ﷺ) replied, "Gabriel has just now informed me of that." Ibn Salam said, "He (i.e. Gabriel) is the enemy of the Jews amongst the angels. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "As for the first sign of The Hour, it will be a fire that will collect the people from the East to the West. As for the first meal which the people of Paradise will eat, it will be the caudate (extra) lobe of the fish-liver. As for the child, if the man's discharge proceeds the woman's discharge, the child attracts the similarity to the man, and if the woman's discharge proceeds the man's, then the child attracts the similarity to the woman." On this, `Abdullah bin Salam said, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, and that you are the Messenger of Allah." and added, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Jews invent such lies as make one astonished, so please ask them about me before they know about my conversion to I slam . " The Jews came, and the Prophet (ﷺ)said, "What kind of man is `Abdullah bin Salam among you?" They replied, "The best of us and the son of the best of us and the most superior among us, and the son of the most superior among us. "The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "What would you think if `Abdullah bin Salam should embrace Islam?" They said, "May Allah protect him from that." The Prophet (ﷺ) repeated his question and they gave the same answer. Then `Abdullah came out to them and said, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah!" On this, the Jews said, "He is the most wicked among us and the son of the most wicked among us." So they degraded him. On this, he (i.e. `Abdullah bin Salam) said, "It is this that I was afraid of, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ).


Tell me honesttalk21,
What is wrong with this hadith and how can we know if Mohammed was speaking the truth about Jibril or not?

You should open a new thread to question if truly Jibril r.a revealed the Quran.

I BELIEVE YOU HAVE NOW EXHAUSTED YOUR ARGUMENT THAT WHAT PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH TRANSMITTED IS NOT WHAT WE HAVE.

AND SEE INDEED THE QURAN IS PRESERVED 9

honesttalk21:
You should open a new thread to question if truly Jibril r.a revealed the Quran.

I BELIEVE YOU HAVE NOW EXHAUSTED YOUR ARGUMENT THAT WHAT PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH TRANSMITTED IS NOT WHAT WE HAVE.

AND SEE INDEED THE QURAN IS PRESERVED 9

If it UNTRUE that Jibril revealed the Qur'an to Mohammed based on this hadith, woe betide you Muslims.

Is this hadith another fabrication of Islam?

TenQ:
If it UNTRUE that Jibril revealed the Qur'an to Mohammed based on this hadith, woe betide you Muslims.
Now
Is this hadith another fabrication of Islam?

Accept the truth of the Quran's preservation which I feel you passively express.

If you now wish to shifting the question to another open a new thread.

Mr honesttalk21,
I don't know why an Admin is deleting my posts.
If indeed Mohammed is not cooking up conjectures about Jibril , explain why this hadith doesn't show Mohammed to be doing exactly that


Sahih al-Bukhari 3938
Narrated Anas:
When the news of the arrival of the Prophet (ﷺ) at Medina reached `Abdullah bin Salam, he went to him to ask him about certain things, He said, "I am going to ask you about three things which only a Prophet can answer: What is the first sign of The Hour? What is the first food which the people of Paradise will eat? Why does a child attract the similarity to his father or to his mother?" The Prophet (ﷺ) replied, "Gabriel has just now informed me of that." Ibn Salam said, "He (i.e. Gabriel) is the enemy of the Jews amongst the angels. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "As for the first sign of The Hour, it will be a fire that will collect the people from the East to the West. As for the first meal which the people of Paradise will eat, it will be the caudate (extra) lobe of the fish-liver. As for the child, if the man's discharge proceeds the woman's discharge, the child attracts the similarity to the man, and if the woman's discharge proceeds the man's, then the child attracts the similarity to the woman." On this, `Abdullah bin Salam said, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, and that you are the Messenger of Allah." and added, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Jews invent such lies as make one astonished, so please ask them about me before they know about my conversion to I slam . " The Jews came, and the Prophet (ﷺ)said, "What kind of man is `Abdullah bin Salam among you?" They replied, "The best of us and the son of the best of us and the most superior among us, and the son of the most superior among us. "The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "What would you think if `Abdullah bin Salam should embrace Islam?" They said, "May Allah protect him from that." The Prophet (ﷺ) repeated his question and they gave the same answer. Then `Abdullah came out to them and said, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah!" On this, the Jews said, "He is the most wicked among us and the son of the most wicked among us." So they degraded him. On this, he (i.e. `Abdullah bin Salam) said, "It is this that I was afraid of, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ).


Tell me honesttalk21,
What is wrong with this hadith and how can we know if Mohammed was speaking the truth about Jibril or not?

TenQ:
Mr honesttalk21,
I don't know why an Admin is deleting my posts.
If indeed Mohammed is not cooking up conjectures about Jibril , explain why this hadith doesn't show Mohammed to be doing exactly that


Sahih al-Bukhari 3938
Narrated Anas:
When the news of the arrival of the Prophet (ﷺ) at Medina reached `Abdullah bin Salam, he went to him to ask him about certain things, He said, "I am going to ask you about three things which only a Prophet can answer: What is the first sign of The Hour? What is the first food which the people of Paradise will eat? Why does a child attract the similarity to his father or to his mother?" The Prophet (ﷺ) replied, "Gabriel has just now informed me of that." Ibn Salam said, "He (i.e. Gabriel) is the enemy of the Jews amongst the angels. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "As for the first sign of The Hour, it will be a fire that will collect the people from the East to the West. As for the first meal which the people of Paradise will eat, it will be the caudate (extra) lobe of the fish-liver. As for the child, if the man's discharge proceeds the woman's discharge, the child attracts the similarity to the man, and if the woman's discharge proceeds the man's, then the child attracts the similarity to the woman." On this, `Abdullah bin Salam said, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, and that you are the Messenger of Allah." and added, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Jews invent such lies as make one astonished, so please ask them about me before they know about my conversion to I slam . " The Jews came, and the Prophet (ﷺ)said, "What kind of man is `Abdullah bin Salam among you?" They replied, "The best of us and the son of the best of us and the most superior among us, and the son of the most superior among us. "The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "What would you think if `Abdullah bin Salam should embrace Islam?" They said, "May Allah protect him from that." The Prophet (ﷺ) repeated his question and they gave the same answer. Then `Abdullah came out to them and said, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah!" On this, the Jews said, "He is the most wicked among us and the son of the most wicked among us." So they degraded him. On this, he (i.e. `Abdullah bin Salam) said, "It is this that I was afraid of, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ).


Tell me honesttalk21,
What is wrong with this hadith and how can we know if Mohammed was speaking the truth about Jibril or not?

You had unsuccessfully used hadiths including those of Bukhari in your failed attempt to claim the Quran is not preserved. Why do you now disagree with the hadith?


Accept the truth of the Quran's preservation which I feel you passively express.

If you now wish to shifting the question to another that Questions the mode of receiving revelation? open a new thread.

honesttalk21:
You had unsuccessfully used hadiths including those of Bukhari in your failed attempt to claim the Quran is not preserved. Why do you now disagree with the hadith?


Accept the truth of the Quran's preservation which I feel you passively express.

If you now wish to shifting the question to another that Questions the mode of receiving revelation? open a new thread.

I never disagreed with any of your Hadiths. I only used them to prove the lies of your Islamic scholars whose consensus you accept above both Allah and Mohammed.

This hadith was to show you that even the claim of Mohammed recieving information from Jibril is a FRAUD!

It is amazing that as a Muslim, you did NOT see the problem with the hadith. The question was a trick question that both Mohammed and your Islamic scholars and then you have fallen for

TenQ:
I never disagreed with any of your Hadiths. I only used them to prove the lies of your Islamic scholars whose consensus you accept above both Allah and Mohammed.

This hadith was to show you that even the claim of Mohammed recieving information from Jibril is a FRAUD!

It is amazing that as a Muslim, you did NOT see the problem with the hadith. The question was a trick question that both Mohammed and your Islamic scholars and then you have fallen for

The alleged lies that have been squarely debunked?

You recently spoke on how Ibn Mas'ud pronounced a word in a verse of Surah Yusuf and this was debunked based on dialect difference of Hudhayl and Quraysh dialect?

honesttalk21:
One man heard someone recite the phrase "عَتَّى حِينٍ" (‘Attā Hīn) instead of the more common "حَتَّى حِينٍ" (Ḥattā Hīn) during a recitation from Surah Yūsuf (12:35).

This was traced back to Ibn Masʿūd, who belonged to the Hudhayl tribe, a group whose dialect included this different way of pronouncing things. When ‘Umar heard about it, he wrote a reminder: "Allah revealed the Qur’an in the clear Arabic of Quraysh, so teach people in their dialect and not in that of Hudhayl."

Since the Prophet pbuh was from Quraysh, the main dialect of the revelation was Qurayshī. ʿ

Abdullāh ibn Masʿūd came from Hudhayl, a well-known Arab tribe, and his native dialect reflected Hudhayl’s way of speaking — with some unique sounds and words that set it apart from Qurayshī Arabic. Some Yoruba pronounce 8 as hate instead of eight.

Later, the most official copy of the Mushaf was read to the Companions in front of ʿUthmān, and no one objected. Muṣʿab ibn Saʿd said people were actually happy about it. ʿAlī ibn Abī Ṭālib mentioned that everything was done openly, so everyone could see.

From The Study Quran.

Though there was some hesitation, but Ibn Masʿūd never doubted that the Qur’an was safely preserved. He didn’t accuse the Uthmānic committee of messing up or leaving things out. In the end, he accepted the consensus of the community, joining the Quraysh-style recitation and the standard Mushaf that was agreed upon.

You don't disagree with the hadith but label them as lies?

Please what are you stating?

honesttalk21:
The alleged lies that have been squarely debunked?

You recently spoke on how Ibn Mas'ud pronounced a word in a verse of Surah Yusuf and this was debunked based on dialect difference of Hudhayl and Quraysh dialect?



You don't disagree with the hadith but label them as lies?

Please what are you stating?

I do not label your Hadiths as LIES, in fact they help expose the LIES of your Islamic Scholars from Mohammed down to the modern Muslim claims about Islam!

This is what I am stating!

It is amazing that as a Muslim, you did NOT see the problem with the hadith. The question was a trick question that both Mohammed and your Islamic scholars and then you have fallen for

Sahih al-Bukhari 3938
Narrated Anas:
When the news of the arrival of the Prophet (ﷺ) at Medina reached `Abdullah bin Salam, he went to him to ask him about certain things, He said, "I am going to ask you about three things which only a Prophet can answer: What is the first sign of The Hour? What is the first food which the people of Paradise will eat? Why does a child attract the similarity to his father or to his mother?" The Prophet (ﷺ) replied, "Gabriel has just now informed me of that." Ibn Salam said,........

Tell me honesttalk21,
What is wrong with this hadith and was Mohammed was speaking the truth about Jibril or not?

TenQ:
This is what I am stating!

It is amazing that as a Muslim, you did NOT see the problem with the hadith. The question was a trick question that both Mohammed and your Islamic scholars and then you have fallen for

Long time troublesome Tenq.

What is the trick?

Explore2xmore:
Long time troublesome Tenq.

What is the trick?

Hello my friend.
It's a long time.

You are wondering that what is the trick in the hadith I just posted!? `Abdullah bin Salam gave the trick question not me!

My claim with the hadith is that there is no Jibril anywhere and every claim about Jibril is certainly fraudulent!


Sahih al-Bukhari 3938
Narrated Anas:
When the news of the arrival of the Prophet (ﷺ) at Medina reached `Abdullah bin Salam, he went to him to ask him about certain things, He said, "I am going to ask you about three things which only a Prophet can answer: What is the first sign of The Hour? What is the first food which the people of Paradise will eat? Why does a child attract the similarity to his father or to his mother?" The Prophet (ﷺ) replied, "Gabriel has just now informed me of that." Ibn Salam said, "He (i.e. Gabriel) is the enemy of the Jews amongst the angels. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "As for the first sign of The Hour, it will be a fire that will collect the people from the East to the West. As for the first meal which the people of Paradise will eat, it will be the caudate (extra) lobe of the fish-liver. As for the child, if the man's discharge proceeds the woman's discharge, the child attracts the similarity to the man, and if the woman's discharge proceeds the man's, then the child attracts the similarity to the woman." On this, `Abdullah bin Salam said, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, and that you are the Messenger of Allah." and added, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Jews invent such lies as make one astonished, so please ask them about me before they know about my conversion to I slam . " The Jews came, and the Prophet (ﷺ)said, "What kind of man is `Abdullah bin Salam among you?" They replied, "The best of us and the son of the best of us and the most superior among us, and the son of the most superior among us. "The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "What would you think if `Abdullah bin Salam should embrace Islam?" They said, "May Allah protect him from that." The Prophet (ﷺ) repeated his question and they gave the same answer. Then `Abdullah came out to them and said, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah!" On this, the Jews said, "He is the most wicked among us and the son of the most wicked among us." So they degraded him. On this, he (i.e. `Abdullah bin Salam) said, "It is this that I was afraid of, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ).


Tell me sir,
What is wrong IN this hadith about Mohammed's answer and can this hadith show that Mohammed was speaking the truth about Jibril or not?

TenQ:
Hello my friend.
It's a long time.

You are wondering that what is the trick in the hadith I just posted!? `Abdullah bin Salam gave the trick question not me!

My claim with the hadith is that there is no Jibril anywhere and every claim about Jibril is certainly fraudulent!

Very well and not unexpected from you.

Whoever is an enemy to Allah, His angels, His messengers, and Jibrīl and Mīkāl, then verily, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers."
Surah al-Baqarah 2:98


You know Abdullah bin Salam accepted Islam

Explore2xmore:
Very well and not unexpected from you.

Whoever is an enemy to Allah, His angels, His messengers, and Jibrīl and Mīkāl, then verily, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers."
Surah al-Baqarah 2:98


You know Abdullah bin Salam accepted Islam

According to him and the hadith, `Abdullah bin Salam accepted Islam.

Has it come to your view that `Abdullah bin Salam could be the greatest liar amongst to Jews?
I believe you've heard of deep cover spies before!
LOL!

He said: ask them about me before they know about my conversion to Islam!

Even though, this is not the issue at stake, Can you please answer this YES or NO question
When`Abdullah bin Salam became a Muslim, did he cease being a Jew?


Then we can go back to the hadith

So, Tell me sir,
What is wrong IN this hadith about Mohammed's answer and can this hadith show that Mohammed was speaking the truth about Jibril or not?

TenQ:
According to him and the hadith, `Abdullah bin Salam accepted Islam.

Has it come to your view that `Abdullah bin Salam could be the greatest liar amongst to Jews?
I believe you've heard of deep cover spies before!
LOL!

He said: ask them about me before they know about my conversion to Islam!

Even though, this is not the issue at stake, Can you please answer this YES or NO question
When`Abdullah bin Salam became a Muslim, did he cease being a Jew?


Then we can go back to the hadith

So, Tell me sir,
What is wrong IN this hadith about Mohammed's answer and can this hadith show that Mohammed was speaking the truth about Jibril or not?

The statement about Jews that they are a people of falsehood, is more about a specific situation than a blanket statement about all Jews in Islam.
In Islamic teachings, there’s a deeper understanding that recognizes the diversity among Jewish communities. Some individuals who betrayed the trust during the time of the Prophet Muhammad in Medina were rightly criticized for their actions, while others were acknowledged for their honesty and integrity

Explore2xmore:
The statement about Jews that they are a people of falsehood, is more about a specific situation than a blanket statement about all Jews in Islam.
In Islamic teachings, there’s a deeper understanding that recognizes the diversity among Jewish communities. Some individuals who betrayed the trust during the time of the Prophet Muhammad in Medina were rightly criticized for their actions, while others were acknowledged for their honesty and integrity

We can come back to this later.

So, Tell me sir,
What is wrong IN this hadith about Mohammed's answer and can this hadith show that Mohammed was speaking the truth about Jibril or not?

TenQ:
We can come back to this later.

So, Tell me sir,
What is wrong IN this hadith about Mohammed's answer and can this hadith show that Mohammed was speaking the truth about Jibril or not?

I don't see anything wrong with the hadith.

The truth was spoken about Jibril

Explore2xmore:
I don't see anything wrong with the hadith.

The truth was spoken about Jibril

TWO Questions:
1. So, is Abdullah bin Salam a prophet of Allah or Mohammed?

It seems every prophet before Mohammed knew the answer except Mohammed until Jibril told him!
2. How come Mohammed was a prophet but he didn't know the answer till Abdullah bin Salam asked him?

Explore2xmore:
The statement about Jews that they are a people of falsehood, is more about a specific situation than a blanket statement about all Jews in Islam.
In Islamic teachings, there’s a deeper understanding that recognizes the diversity among Jewish communities. Some individuals who betrayed the trust during the time of the Prophet Muhammad in Medina were rightly criticized for their actions, while others were acknowledged for their honesty and integrity

Why bother with this guy. I have addressed his incorrect perception and misconceptions of evidence for. The Quran is well preserved as it was initially transmitted.

He is trying to water down the reality of his error

honesttalk21:
Why bother with this guy. I have addressed his incorrect perception and misconceptions of evidence for. The Quran is well preserved as it was initially transmitted.

He is trying to water down the reality of his errot

Evidence of FEAR catching you!?

Your problem with me is that you have no answers for my Quizzes based on your Qur'an, Hadiths and Sira. The best you can do is to REPEAT the Standard Islamic Narrative as if it is a fact that erases the problems presented by your Islamic Sources.

So, you may help him to answer my questions
TWO Questions:
1. So, is Abdullah bin Salam a prophet of Allah or Mohammed?

It seems every prophet before Mohammed knew the answer except Mohammed until Jibril told him!
2. How come Mohammed was a prophet but he didn't know the answer till Abdullah bin Salam asked him?


Sahih al-Bukhari 3938 is the hadith we are looking at now. Muslims dislike scrutiny of their sources because their lies collapse like a pack of cards when they do

Are you afraid?

TenQ:
Evidence of FEAR catching you!?

Your problem with me is that you have no answers for my Quizzes based on your Qur'an, Hadiths and Sira. The best you can do is to REPEAT the Standard Islamic Narrative as if it is a fact that erases the problems presented by your Islamic Sources.

So, you may help him to answer my questions
TWO Questions:

1. So, is Abdullah bin Salam a prophet of Allah or Mohammed?

It seems every prophet before Mohammed knew the answer except Mohammed until Jibril told him!
2. How come Mohammed was a prophet but he didn't know the answer till Abdullah bin Salam asked him?


Sahih al-Bukhari 3938 is the hadith we are looking at now. Muslims dislike scrutiny of their sources because their lies collapse like a pack of cards when they do

Are you afraid?

Stop diverting from your failed propaganda that the Quran is not preserved .

It is preserved and all your arguments against that have been dismantled.

honesttalk21:
Stop diverting from your failed propaganda that the Quran is not preserved .

It is preserved and all your arguments against that have been dismantled.

The Truth is Bitting You!?
All I see in YOU is FEAR and DESPERATION nothing else


So, and AGAIN you may help him to answer my questions
TWO Questions:
1. So, is Abdullah bin Salam a prophet of Allah or Mohammed?

It seems every prophet before Mohammed knew the answer except Mohammed until Jibril told him!
2. How come Mohammed was a prophet but he didn't know the answer till Abdullah bin Salam asked him?


Sahih al-Bukhari 3938 is the hadith we are looking at now. Muslims dislike scrutiny of their sources because their lies collapse like a pack of cards when they do

Are you more afraid?

TenQ:
The Truth is Bitting You!?
All I see in YOU is FEAR and DESPERATION nothing else


So, and AGAIN you may help him to answer my questions
TWO Questions:
1. So, is Abdullah bin Salam a prophet of Allah or Mohammed?

It seems every prophet before Mohammed knew the answer except Mohammed until Jibril told him!
2. How come Mohammed was a prophet but he didn't know the answer till Abdullah bin Salam asked him?


Sahih al-Bukhari 3938 is the hadith we are looking at now. Muslims dislike scrutiny of their sources because their lies collapse like a pack of cards when they do

Are you more afraid?

The same eyes you used to misread and understand the hadith you used to wrongly srate the Quran is not preserved?

From challenges of dialect pronounciation, misunderstanding and over simplifying ahruf, Qiraat, initial reluctance, inclusions of explanations and supplications in personal Mushaf?

Sorry your premise of arguments are fallacious and THE QURAN IS PRESERVED.

I end my comments on this thread.

See how you evaded the main question for something else!?
SMH!!

honesttalk21:
The same eyes you used to misread and understand the hadith you used to wrongly srate the Quran is not preserved?

From challenges of dialect pronounciation, misunderstanding and over simplifying ahruf, Qiraat, initial reluctance, inclusions of explanations and supplications in personal Mushaf?

Sorry your premise of arguments are fallacious and THE QURAN IS PRESERVED.

I end my comments on this thread.

Your conscience will continue to prick you as the TRUTH you cannot say you don't know.

Just as JimRohn, who quickly recognised the disaster awaiting him and fled, I am not surprised you have chosen to flee.

I am sure you have seen from my last question how much ignorance you have even about your own religious literatures.

Your Problem:
You don't ask Questions!
If you had asked questions, you wouldn't have remained a Muslim!

Jesus said:
When you know the Truth and adopt it, this Truth will set you free!

John 8:32:
"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

honesttalk21:
Why bother with this guy. I have addressed his incorrect perception and misconceptions of evidence for. The Quran is well preserved as it was initially transmitted.

He is trying to water down the reality of his error

Yes I agree with you.

You clearly showed him that

1. Jam‘ al-Qur’an refers to both the memorization and the written compilation of the Quran.

2. The Prophet pbuh had scribes who recorded verses during his lifetime.

3. Abū Bakr’s team followed strict guidelines, requiring written proof and two witnesses for verification.

4. ʿUthmān focused on standardizing the dialect, not altering the content.

5. The Qur’an has been preserved through widespread memorization and manuscripts, with no changes to its doctrine.

6. There are no lost surahs, no additions, and no editing councils involved.


No other scripture boasts this level of preservation. Let’s be real about the evidence.

TenQ:
TWO Questions:
1. So, is Abdullah bin Salam a prophet of Allah or Mohammed?

It seems every prophet before Mohammed knew the answer except Mohammed until Jibril told him!
2. How come Mohammed was a prophet but he didn't know the answer till Abdullah bin Salam asked him?

Why would you think question 1.

2. Please enlighten me about other prophets being asked this question and their answers

Explore2xmore:
Why would you think question 1.

2. Please enlighten me about other prophets being asked this question and their answers

1. Because he knows the answer Mohammed did not yet know.
2. The set of questions never existed either I. Judaism or Christianity. Only in Islam did we see the question being asked and the answer given.

Again, my TWO Questions:
1. So, is Abdullah bin Salam a prophet of Allah or Mohammed?
It seems every prophet before Mohammed knew the answer except Mohammed until Jibril told him!
2. How come Mohammed was a prophet but he didn't know the answer till Abdullah bin Salam asked him?

Explore2xmore:
Yes I agree with you.
You clearly showed him that

You definitely delight in fooling yourselves as Muslims. The things I firstly showed him are the exact things you said he showed me!?

Explore2xmore:
1. Jam‘ al-Qur’an refers to both the memorization and the written compilation of the Quran.

A. So, where are the SEVEN Ahruf of Mohammed if the Qur'an is perfectly preserved?
B. Of the Qur'an of Mohammed written on pieces of clothes, where were they when Abubakar was collecting his Qur'an?
C. Is the Qur'an of Abubakar (by recitation) IDENTICAL to the Qur'an of Mohammed (according to recitation)?

Explore2xmore:
2. The Prophet pbuh had scribes who recorded verses during his lifetime.

A. Was the Qur'an of Ibn Mas'ud identical to the Qur'an of Abubakar?
B. Was the Qur'an of Ubayy identical to the Qur'an of Abubakar?

But these are the best reciters Mohammed commanded you to take Qur'an from?

Explore2xmore:
3. Abū Bakr’s team followed strict guidelines, requiring written proof and two witnesses for verification.

A. Take the Qur'an from FOUR was the command of your prophet: why did you disobey clear instruction from your prophet.
B. If the Qur'an of Abubakar was perfect, why was the Qur'an of Uthman collected afresh?
C. Since the Qur'an of Abubakar was different from the Qur'an of Uthman, which of the two Qur'an is IDENTICAL by recitation to the Qur'an recited by Mohammed?

Explore2xmore:
4. ʿUthmān focused on standardizing the dialect, not altering the content.

A. So, apart from dialectical differences, was the Qur'an of Abubakar IDENTICAL to the Qur'an of Uthman?

Explore2xmore:
5. The Qur’an has been preserved through widespread memorization and manuscripts, with no changes to its doctrine.

A. If the Qur'an is identical through widespread memorisation, where is the verse of stoning (Rajam) of adulterers in the Qur'an?
B. If the Qur'an is identical through widespread memorisation, where is the verse of breastfeeding an adult man ten times (later abrogated to five times in the Qur'an) in the Qur'an?
C. The recitation of your best reciter was left out, yet your Qur'an is perfectly preserved!?
Sahih al-Bukhari 5005
Narrated Ibn `Abbas:
`Umar said, Ubai was the best of us in the recitation (of the Qur'an) yet we leave some of what he recites.' Ubai says, 'I have taken it from the mouth of Allah's Messenger and will not leave for anything whatever." But Allah said "None of Our Revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten but We substitute something better or similar." Quran 2.106

Explore2xmore:
6. There are no lost surahs, no additions, and no editing councils involved.

A. Until you find for us the verses of Rajam in your Qur'an for us
B. Until you show us the verses of breastfeeding an adult man ten times (later abrogated to five)

Explore2xmore:
No other scripture boasts this level of preservation. Let’s be real about the evidence.

Only in Islam would they tell lies against evidence that their Qur'an is word for word, letter for letter, dot for dot IDENTICAL with the Qur'an of Mohammed, yet what we see is a web of lies and cover-ups.

Explore2xmore, Honesttalk21 and CreativeOrbit
Just to correct you with more EVIDENCES: the admin deleted from my post.
PART ONE:

1. Hadith About Lost Verses (Including the Stoning Verse)

Sahih al-Bukhari 6829, Sahih Muslim 1691
Narrated by 'Umar ibn al-Khattab:
"Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Book to him. Among what Allah revealed was the Verse of the Stoning, so we recited it, understood it, and acted upon it. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) stoned (adulterers), and we stoned after him. I fear that with the passage of time, someone will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of Stoning in the Book of Allah,' thus they will go astray by abandoning an obligation that Allah revealed."

This shows that some verses, like the Rajm (stoning) verse, were once part of the Qur’an but are no longer present in the compiled text.

Yet, your Qur'an is preserved!?

2. Hadith About the "Suckling Verse" (Ayah al-Rada’ah)


Sahih Muslim 1452, Sunan Abu Dawud 2062
Narrated by 'Aisha:
"Among what was revealed of the Qur’an was 'ten known sucklings' (to establish mahram relations), then it was abrogated by 'five known sucklings.' When the Prophet (ﷺ) passed away, this was among what was recited of the Qur’an."


This indicates that some verses related to rulings were later abrogated and removed from the Qur'an after the death of Mohammed.

Before another zealous Muslim admin delete it again. SMH!


Explore2xmore, Honesttalk21 and CreativeOrbit
Just to correct you with more EVIDENCES: the admin deleted from my post.
PART TWO:

3. Ibn Mas’ud’s Statement on Missing Surahs

Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah 7/197-198
Abdullah ibn Mas’ud said:
"What we recite as a single surah (in the Mushaf) would (originally) be as long as Surah al-Baqarah."


This suggests that some parts of the Qur’an were much longer before being reduced or abrogated.

4. Hadith on the "Two Surahs" That Were Lost

Sahih Muslim 2289
Narrated by Abu Musa al-Ash’ari:
"We used to recite a surah similar in length and severity to Surah Bara’ah (At-Tawbah), but I have forgotten it except for a single verse : 'If the son of Adam had two valleys of wealth, he would seek a third, and nothing fills the belly of the son of Adam except dust...'"


This confirms that some surahs or verses were once part of the Qur’an but are no longer preserved in the Mushaf.



5. Zaid ibn Thabit’s Statement on Missing Verses

Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah 10/519
Zaid ibn Thabit said:
"We used to recite a verse that was revealed concerning the struggle in the way of Allah, but it is not found now: 'Strive in the way of Allah with a striving that is due to Him.'"


This further prove that some Qur’anic revelations were lost over time. Yet you claim perfect preservation!

It's sad you are unable to comprehend and accept that:

1. The presence of abrogation and reports of lifted verses does not mean the Qur'an wasn't perfectly preserved. It affirms that the preservation was carried out exactly as Allah intended i.e with divine selection of what should remain recited and recorded, and what should not. The Prophet pbuh himself instructed what verses should go where.

Preservation ≠ (doesn't equal) Inclusion of Every Revelation

Revelation comes in many forms:

Qur’an (mutluww)

Hadith Qudsi

Abrogated verses (once recited, then lifted)

The Prophet pbuh received much revelation, but not all of it was meant for eternal recitation.
Imām al-Qarāfī, al-Furūq

2. 2. Abrogation Was a Part of the Revelation Process
“We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth one better than it or similar to it.”
(Surah al-Baqarah 2:106)

So when Zayd ibn Thābit or Aʾishah mention missing verses, they are not saying “we lost it,” but rather:
“It was once revealed, then Allah lifted it.”

3. 3. The Prophet pbuh personally Supervised What Went into the Qur’an.
He would:
Call scribes to write specific verses,
Arrange them in specific order,
Tell companions not to write or recite some things as Qur’an (because they had been abrogated).

This means that only what the Prophet pbuh confirmed as Qur'an remains. That is preservation.


The mushaf of ʿUthman was compiled with consensus of the Companions.

No companion said: This Qur’an is incomplete.

Even those who reported lifted verses (like Zayd and Abu Musa) were among those who affirmed the authenticity of the final mushaf.

Also;
The suspicion raised about the integrity of the codex of the Qur’an was dropped.”
– Study Quran commentary on Shiʿi exegesis

Imām al-Bāqir: No one can claim he has with him more of the Qur’an than what is in the muṣḥaf.

Imām Jaʿfar al-Ṣādiq: The Qur'an is one, revealed by One, and confirmed by the Prophet

The Qur’an today is complete, not because every revealed word remains, but because:

Everything Allah willed to remain has remained.

The Ahl al-Bayt and Ṣaḥābah never doubted the preserved core.

Scholars from both Sunni and Shi’a traditions Ṭūsī, Ṭabrisī, al-Suyūṭī, Fakhr al-Dīn al-Rāzī affirm the integrity of the Qur’ān’s preservation.

It’s unfortunate that there seems to be a misunderstanding regarding the preservation of the Qur’an. Allow me to clarify the matter:

1. Preservation Does Not Mean Every Revelation Was Included

The presence of abrogation or references to lifted verses does not compromise the perfection of the Quran’s preservation. Rather, it affirms that the Qur’an was preserved exactly as Allah intended through divine selection of what should remain recited and recorded, and what was to be lifted. The Prophet pbuh personally oversaw this process, instructing where each verse belonged.

It’s important to distinguish between different forms of revelation:

Qur’an (recited revelation )– Recited as scripture.
Hadith Qudsi – Sacred but not part of the Qur’an.
Abrogated Verses – Once revealed, then lifted.

The Prophet pbuh received many revelations, but not all were meant for permanent inclusion in the Qur’an. As Imām al-Qarāfī noted in al-Furūq, preservation was never about including every revealed word, but preserving what Allah intended to endure.

2. Abrogation Was Part of the Revelation Process. As Allah says:
We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth one better than it or similar to it.
(Surah al-Baqarah 2:106)

When companions like Zayd ibn Thābit or Aʾishah mention certain verses that were once recited, they are not implying anything was lost rather, they’re affirming that some verses were revealed and then divinely lifted.

3. The Prophet pbuh personally supervised the Compilation as he

* Called scribes to write specific verses,
* Arranged them in precise order,
* Instructed that certain revelations not be recorded as Qur’an due to abrogation.

Thus, what remained in the Qur’an was only what the Prophet pbuh affirmed and this is the essence of true preservation.

Furthermore, the compilation of the Qur’an under Caliph Uthman was done with the full consensus of the companions. None of them, including those who narrated abrogated or lifted verses, ever claimed the Qur’an was incomplete. Even scholars from the Ahl al-Bayt affirmed its authenticity.

Imam al-Baqir: No one can claim he possesses more of the Qur’an than what is in the muṣḥaf.

Imām Jaʿfar al-Ṣādiq: The Qur’an is one, revealed by One, and confirmed by the Prophet.

The Qur’an we have today is complete not because it includes every word ever revealed, but because it includes everything Allah *willed* to remain. This view is upheld by both Sunni and Shi’a scholars, including Tusi, Tabrisi, al-Suyuti, and Fakhr al-Din al-Razi.