₦airaland Forum

Afrojuju2017:
Go find out about average and typical household debt in America. The fact is most normal families have debt in the west, most families mortgage their homes, have a PCP/HP on several motor vehicles. Fund property renovations and upgrades on property.

The fact that you said all with confidence from your previous post is baffling. Myself for example and many others don’t live on credit card debts, mortgages are normal in any developed country.

Gerrard59:
What kind of job do these people do for a living? What was their initial mode of entry into the country? What about marriage? How come 17 years and not even permanent residency?

25yrs in South Africa won’t give u a paper go and find out yourself.some countries want foreigners others don’t.

highchief1:
25yrs in South Africa won’t give u a paper go and find out yourself. some countries want foreigners others don’t.

Lol

See here: https://www.gov.za/services/services-foreign-nationals/permanent-residence/apply-permanent-residency-permit

Simply say those set of Nigerians entered South Africa illegally, must have committed crimes and are therefore unqualified to become permanent residents. In the same South Africa, there are Nigerians who are professors, skilled professionals and legit business people who have become permanent residents. Anyone who enters another country illegally has no right to seek permanent residency.

KLEINBASS:
Selling drugs and crime , you can’t get papers when you’re staying with expired visa.most Nigerians in South Africa don’t have valid visas.

I see and no wonder. They entered illegally, committed crimes yet seek permanent residency?

C for Cognitive Dissonance!

Gerrard59:
Lol

See here: https://www.gov.za/services/services-foreign-nationals/permanent-residence/apply-permanent-residency-permit

Simply say those set of Nigerians entered South Africa illegally, must have committed crimes and are therefore unqualified to become permanent residents. In the same South Africa, there are Nigerians who are professors, skilled professionals and legit business people who have become permanent residents. Anyone who enters another country illegally has no right to seek permanent residency.

u no no wetin u Dey talk.my guys wey enter Canada and yankee tru visit visa converted it u can’t do that in SA.My guys wey go Europe by road don get papers.u don’t understand SA,they don’t want u to stay.In every normal country once u marry their citizen it’s almost automatic for u.but Southy,if u like marry ramaphosa only child no way.

highchief1:
u no no wetin u Dey talk.my guys wey enter Canada and yankee tru visit visa converted it u can’t do that in SA.My guys wey go Europe by road don get papers.u don’t understand SA,they don’t want u to stay.In every normal country once u marry their citizen it’s almost automatic for u.but Southy,if u like marry ramaphosa only child no way.

Interesting. I'm ignorant of the entire issue, so I rather not oppose your opinion. So, who are the people who eventually get permanent residency in South Africa?

Gerrard59:
Interesting. I'm ignorant of the entire issue, so I rather not oppose your opinion. So, who are the people who eventually get permanent residency in South Africa?

very few they feel they need.maybe doctors and lecturers like u said.those that are contributing immensely to their country.Country wey before u go get license to do business as a foreigner na war.If Southy Dey give papers nobody go Dey go Uk and Europe or Canada dem.theres Nthg in America that’s not in SA.dem package that country well well.

highchief1:
very few they feel they need.maybe doctors and lecturers like u said.those that are contributing immensely to their country.Country wey before u go get license to do business as a foreigner na war.If Southy Dey give papers nobody go Dey go Uk and Europe or Canada dem.theres Nthg in America that’s not in SA.dem package that country well well.

Thanks for your insights about South Africa.

Much appreciation.

abbyyzino:
The fact that you said all with confidence from your previous post is baffling. Myself for example and many others don’t live on credit card debts, mortgages are normal in any developed country.

Is a mortgage not a debt, I'd even say its the most consequential debt, which can only be equalled by student loans.

Afrojuju2017:
Is a mortgage not a debt, I'd even say its the most consequential debt, which can only be equalled by student loans.

Did you know mortgages are not bad, take first instance I can take mortgage to buy a house not that I can’t pay cash but I need that to build my equity. I can own several properties that are generating good income through the help of mortgages.

MT:
This thread clearly shows there are lot of ignoranuses in this country.

Name of a country does not determine how rich or poor anyone will be but rather the quality of skill sets you have.

See many people here hyping US and Canada, countries they have never been. Too much Hollywood movies.

Go to the US and you will see lot of people whic can’t afford three square meals. Go to Canada, you will see people who can’t pay bills, who have become homeless. Go to Togo and you will see a billionaire in pounds sterling.


Your skill set, not the country!

This isn't true. Yes, the country matters, some countries make it MORE LIKELY that a person with ZERO skills can live a life with access to middle class amenities. Starting with the basics, one has to define POOR and RICH and middle class using a world standard.

Applying that to Nigeria, USA, Canada, South Africa and UK, the appropriate questions would be -

1) What percentage of the population are poor in each country?

2) What population are wealthy in each country?

For example, having a working indoor toilet with running water in a home is considered a mark of middle class all over the world. Lagos is the most developed city in Nigeria and only 7% of residents have access to that standard.

In the USA over 97% of the population live in homes with such a toilet facility. Some attempt to negate that statistic with an argument that government provides or subsidizes water supply in the USA.

So I went and looked up the data, to my surprise 20% of homes in the USA use wells and cisterns which are then powered and piped into the home. So in the USA even the PRIVATELY PROVIDED water supply for standard toilets and home water systems is three times higher than the TOTAL access in Lagos State. That surely tells a story. No matter the skill level or social status, one is more likely to have access to a world standard toilet in the UK/USA than in Nigeria. That's a simple way to understand it all.

The next argument to muddy the waters is PPP with regard to currency. Well, whatever PPP tells us, everyone knows that ₦500K per month is a good salary in Nigeria. It was in the news recently that bank ABO's - hires that have worked circa 2 years is my understanding of it - now earn ₦700 to 800K per month due to a massive raise to compensate for inflation, which equates to $500. Just about any Nigerian living in USA for 2 years, even illegal immigrants working as cooks & taxi drivers, nursing aides and security guards - can live a life with access to lower middle class amenities and still afford to send $250 to Nigeria every month.

So it's not about skills, it's about the investment needed to earn access to middle class amenities. In Nigeria an average person needs 4 years of university education plus 2 years working experience to earn about ₦700 to 800K, whereas a secondary school dropout in the USA can SAVE and remit ₦350K or $200 per month to Nigeria after all expenses and still have access to better general living conditions. It has more to do with the way society is organized to create and distribute wealth. Nigeria and Nigerians are basically more socialist and thus generate much less wealth to distribute, which directly refutes the notion that country doesn't matter, only personal skills.

Yes, Dangote made his money in Nigeria....everyone knows. Sorry.

Good Luck to Nigeria.

abbyyzino:
Did you know mortgages are not bad, take first instance I can take mortgage to buy a house not that I can’t pay cash but I need that to build my equity. I can own several properties that are generating good income through the help of mortgages.

I have several mortgages, I know how it works

Afrojuju2017:
I have several mortgages, I know how it works

If you have several, that means it’s generating incomes for you. Would you consider that a bad debt?

IbeOkehie:
This isn't true. Yes, the country matters, some countries make it MORE LIKELY that a person with ZERO skills can live a life with access to middle class amenities. Starting with the basics, one has to define POOR and RICH and middle class using a world standard.

Applying that to Nigeria, USA, Canada, South Africa and UK, the appropriate questions would be -

1) What percentage of the population are poor in each country?

2) What population are wealthy in each country?

For example, having a working indoor toilet with running water in a home is considered a mark of middle class all over the world. Lagos is the most developed city in Nigeria and only 7% of residents have access to that standard.

In the USA over 97% of the population live in homes with such a toilet facility. Some attempt to negate that statistic with an argument that government provides or subsidizes water supply in the USA.

So I went and looked up the data, to my surprise 20% of homes in the USA use wells and cisterns which are then powered and piped into the home. So in the USA even the PRIVATELY PROVIDED water supply for standard toilets and home water systems is three times higher than the TOTAL access in Lagos State. That surely tells a story. No matter the skill level or social status, one is more likely to have access to a world standard toilet in the UK/USA than in Nigeria. That's a simple way to understand it all.

The next argument to muddy the waters is PPP with regard to currency. Well, whatever PPP tells us, everyone knows that ₦500K per month is a good salary in Nigeria. It was in the news recently that bank ABO's - hires that have worked circa 2 years is my understanding of it - now earn ₦700 to 800K per month due to a massive raise to compensate for inflation, which equates to $500. Just about any Nigerian living in USA for 2 years, even illegal immigrants working as cooks & taxi drivers, nursing aides and security guards - can live a life with access to lower middle class amenities and still afford to send $250 to Nigeria every month.

So it's not about skills, it's about the investment needed to earn access to middle class amenities. In Nigeria an average person needs 4 years of university education plus 2 years working experience to earn about ₦700 to 800K, whereas a secondary school dropout in the USA can SAVE and remit ₦350K or $200 per month to Nigeria after all expenses and still have access to better general living conditions. It has more to do with the way society is organized to create and distribute wealth. Nigeria and Nigerians are basically more socialist and thus generate much less wealth to distribute, which directly refutes the notion that country doesn't matter, only personal skills.

Yes, Dangote made his money in Nigeria....everyone knows. Sorry.

Good Luck to Nigeria.

I didn’t know how I missed your rebuttal. You and I are always at the opposite side of the stick due to our perspective, and it’s okay anyway.

Firstly, I do not understand why you always choose to convert dollars to naira. Someone earning dollars in the US won’t spent naira there and while u r talking about the income, don’t forget to tell us about the expenditure over there.

Each country pays according to their inflationary rate . Someone earning 800k per month In Nigeria will live a better life than someone earning 2k USD gross. Western world is more expensive than Nigeria. Every assets you are buying abroad, you have to keep running to repay with interests. Western world is designed to make you appear rich - i am not faulting it as it has its pros and cons like any economic model system in the world.

Sending 250 USD monthly to Nigeria does not mean a person is rich abroad. Most are barely surviving over there while squeezing blood and water to have a saving to fall back to in Nigeria. With such low quality of life, he will age badly with potential to be sick or die prematurely.

The statistics that show only 7% of Lagos has access to functional toilet is pathetically flawed and I was shocked you could rely on that to take potshot at Nigeria.

I live in the western world, I live in Nigeria and I have a balanced worldview of the two. Western world is not paradise you always paint it to be and Nigeria is not a horrible place like you always make it.

There is no way you pad it, a person with zero will always be at the lower rung of the ladder, and his credit rating will be worthless to access anything abroad.

Do whatever floats your boat, the end will always justify the means.

MT:
I didn’t know how I missed your rebuttal. You and I are always at the opposite side of the stick due to our perspective, and it’s okay anyway.

So, I do not understand why you always choose to convert dollars to naira.

Each country pays according to their inflationary rate . Someone earning 800k per month In Nigeria will live a better than life than someone earning 2k USD gross. Western world is more expensive than Nigeria.

Sending 250 USD monthly to Nigeria does not mean a person is rich abroad. Most are barely surviving over there while squeezing blood and water to have a saving to fall back to. With such low quality of life, he will age badly with potential to be sick or die prematurely.


The statistics that show only 7% of Lagos has access to functional toilet is pathetically flawed and I was shocked you could rely on that to take potshot at Nigeria.

I live in the western world, I live in Nigeria and I have a balanced worldview of the two. Western world is not paradise you always paint it to be and Nigeria is not a horrible place like you always view it.

Do whatever floats your boat, the end will always justify the means.

The point on remittances is well taken...sending money to Nigeria is the greatest impediment to long term success for Nigerian immigrants.

The data is the data. The World Bank or IMF measured that Nigeria as the Poverty Capital of the World in 2018, taking over from India. Nigeria's own government statistics show a high level of poverty and at a personal level anyone living in Nigeria can see it first hand....the terrible roads, lack of stable electricity, high cost of food and so on. The data is a reflection of real life.

A Nigerian fast food cook with a high school education can live at a good standard in the USA/UK and still SAVE and remit ₦350K or $200 per month to Nigeria after paying all their expenses. This is a very telling reality. I did the equivalent of that in the 1990's with unskilled labor.

The important thing is that a Nigeria-based bank ABO with skills earned in University earns ₦800K and lives in worse conditions. How will they live, what kind of housing will an ABO live in to be able to save ₦350K? Banking is one of the major employers of Nigerians graduates. Comparing them to equivalent banking officers in the USA will make Nigeria look even worse. So the point again is that THE COUNTRY MATTERS. It's about socialist vs capitalist systems.

Another example is telecoms. When I left Nigeria the country operated a socialist telecoms sector and less than 0.1% of Nigerians had access to phone service, my first personal use of phone was when I relocated to the USA, I was a fast food cook and had a phone line in my apartment and a car too. At that time even rich people in Nigeria couldn't get phone service, no matter how skilled they were. Think about that.

The claim that skill matters most is FALSE....compare the pay of doctors, mechanics, IT data analysts in UK and Nigeria and it's clear that LOCATION matters more. That's why the vast majority of Nigerians would leave their country and go to UK if they could.

Good Luck to Nigerians.

IbeOkehie:
The point on remittances is well taken...sending money to Nigeria is the greatest impediment to long term success for Nigerian immigrants.

The data is the data. The World Bank or IMF measured that Nigeria as the Poverty Capital of the World in 2018, taking over from India. Nigeria's own government statistics show a high level of poverty and at a personal level anyone living in Nigeria can see it first hand....the terrible roads, lack of stable electricity, high cost of food and so on. The data is a reflection of real life.

A Nigerian fast food cook with a high school education can live at a good standard in the USA/UK and still SAVE and remit ₦350K or $200 per month to Nigeria after paying all their expenses. This is a very telling reality. I did the equivalent of that in the 1990's with unskilled labor.

The important thing is that a Nigeria-based bank ABO with skills earned in University earns ₦800K and lives in worse conditions. How will they live, what kind of housing will an ABO live in to be able to save ₦350K? Banking is one of the major employers of Nigerians graduates. Comparing them to equivalent banking officers in the USA will make Nigeria look even worse. So the point again is that THE COUNTRY MATTERS. It's about socialist vs capitalist systems.

Another example is telecoms. When I left Nigeria the country operated a socialist telecoms sector and less than 0.1% of Nigerians had access to phone service, my first personal use of phone was when I relocated to the USA, I was a fast food cook and had a phone line in my apartment and a car too. At that time even rich people in Nigeria couldn't get phone service, no matter how skilled they were. Think about that.

The claim that skill matters most is FALSE....compare the pay of doctors, mechanics, IT data analysts in UK and Nigeria and it's clear that LOCATION matters more. That's why the vast majority of Nigerians would leave their country and go to UK if they could.

Good Luck to Nigerians.

You have a pattern of overloading your write up to make facts disappear but not for me.

1. You were using statistics of 2018 for Nigeria in 2025. How does that sound. If you are talking about fact, why did you ignore all the positives that the world bank and IMF are saying about Nigeria in 2025. Why did you ignore the improvements in moody ratings in 2025 for Nigeria. Why do you mostly dwell on the negatives? Even the US, which you painted as paradise, moody downgraded their rating from AAA this year.

2. What you don’t get always is that people get paid based on the inflationary rate in the country they reside. You are looking at the salaries being paid in Nigeria and still doing dollars to naira conversion in your head. No! . 800k In Nigeria is not a bad salary for someone that is modest . How much are people being paid in the US with all the attendant inflation?. Majority belong to the lowest rung of the ladder over there as well, combining jobs to make ends meet. Are you saying bankers in Nigeria , who you always pick on , don’t build beautiful houses, don’t have perks, don’t vacation abroad, don’t have access to loans with low interest rates, don’t send their kids abroad etc ?

3. You are using the word “socialist” loosely on Nigeria. I will suggest you research more on it and for practical application, look towards Canada.

4. I repeat if you lack sought after skills anywhere in the world, you will live like a pauper. It is not about location, it is more about your grey matter!

MT:
You have a pattern of overloading your write up to make facts disappear but not for me.

1. You were using statistics of 2018 for Nigeria in 2025. How does that sound. If you are talking about fact, why did you ignore all the positives that the world bank and IMF are saying about Nigeria in 2025. Why did you ignore the improvements in moody ratings in 2025 for Nigeria. Why do you mostly dwell on the negatives? Even the US, which you painted as paradise, moody downgraded their rating from AAA this year.

2. What you don’t get always is that people get paid based on the inflationary rate in the country they reside. You are looking at the salaries being paid in Nigeria and still doing dollars to naira conversion in your head. No! . 800k In Nigeria is not a bad salary for someone that is modest . How much are people being paid in the US with all the attendant inflation?. Majority belong to the lowest rung of the ladder over there as well, combining jobs to make ends meet. Are you saying bankers in Nigeria , who you always pick on , don’t build beautiful houses, don’t have perks, don’t vacation abroad, don’t have access to loans with low interest rates, don’t send their kids abroad etc ?

3. You are using the word “socialist” loosely on Nigeria. I will suggest you research more on it and for practical application, look towards Canada.

4. I repeat if you lack sought after skills anywhere in the world, you will live like a pauper. It is not about location, it is more about your grey matter!

Point #4 is the main thing we're arguing about....a person with zero skills in the USA will NOT live as a pauper. The lowest entry level job in the USA is fast food cook. Anyone can literally walk down the street and get the job. A fast food cook with the same 2 years experience as a Nigeria-based bank ABO will be able to afford -

1) A fully paid off car. I did this myself as a fast food cook in the 1990's after working for 6 months. I also lived with a roommate in a very nice 2bd 2bath apartment that only upper middle class could afford in Nigeria, I've posted the photos on Nairaland. I had phone and satellite/cable TV when those amenities were available to less than 0.1% of Nigerians in Nigeria.

I have one employee of 3 years that just bought a used Kia for $3K cash. Maybe I'll post the picture.

2) Same employee also lives alone in a one bedroom apartment that's walking distance from our facility. Entry level employees in our company don't need any experience, we're legally allowed to train high school graduates on the job, like an apprenticeship after which they take an exam to become certified Pharmacy Technicians.

Are you saying bankers in Nigeria , who you always pick on , don’t build beautiful houses, don’t have perks, don’t vacation abroad, don’t have access to loans with low interest rates, don’t send their kids abroad etc ?

What level of experience are you talking about? How many years? I bet you the majority of bank ABO's at 3 years experience or less don't own cars or live in housing that's better than I did as a fast food cook with less than 1 year experience. In fact I know that is true. I'm not picking on bankers. Banks are probably the top employers of Nigerian graduates in the formal economy in Nigeria....I compare them to USA fast food workers because that's the only job that Nigerian immigrants can achieve here. Or you want me to compare the same jobs in both countries?

Both the fast food cook and pharmacy technician cited above live better than most new banking ABO's in Nigeria...remember, my understanding is that people are PROMOTED to become an ABO after 2 years working experience in a bank. In addition to that, whatever the argument about PPP they can save ₦350K or $200 monthly and remit to Nigeria, I did much more than that in my time as a fast food cook. Commentators like @Gerrard and @tshtsh continually cite PPP as a Nigerian advantage. The whole reason for migration is the currency conversion as an advantage. Less than 5% of Nigerian adults earn more than ₦350K per month. Seriously, how many graduates can get a job paying 350K in Nigeria today? How many businesses can earn that and what is the capital investment needed?

A person with ZERO skills can live at the world accepted middle class standard in the USA, in a much better environment and better amenities. Such a standard of living is only attainable for less than 0.5% of Nigerians, no matter their skills. A person with ZERO SKILLS in Nigeria can NEVER afford to live in a home with standard toilet and running water. Those are the FACTS and they're indisputable.

At every skill level, the average person will earn more and live at a better standard in the US & UK.

And yes Nigeria has made a lot of improvements since the 1990's. To repeat, back then less than 0.1% of Nigerians had access to phone service, an essential middle class standard anywhere in the world. Telecom availability has improved since then and I'm personally very happy about that.

Good Luck to Nigeria.

abbyyzino:
If you have several, that means it’s generating incomes for you. Would you consider that a bad debt?

It's debt non the less, an investment that can go very bad very quickly if the market turns and there is a fall . Plus when you look at tax, interest rates, repairs and maintenance it's not making me any money rather it's worth it because of rapid value increase towards the future.