₦airaland Forum

FreeIgboho:
Know the difference between mere translation and a whole new version

LoLz. Gosh you are terrible at this. So you don't know that each version is a fresh translation of whatever manuscripts (especially if they just found previously undiscovered manuscripts) that are available for the books? Dude, I beg you go read up on this and stop embarrassing yourself with this display of ignorance.

MaxInDHouse:
YES!
The prophecy says someone very close to the Christ will betray him {Psalms 41:9} and Judah loves money to the extent of STEALING from whatever is given to the group {John 12:6} Jesus purposely chose Judas so that as the treasurer of the group he could always have money in his possession and Jesus never queried him even though he knew that Judas always steals what is kept in his care.
So Judas has the freewill to be loyal but he allowed the love of money to destroy him! 1Timothy 6:9-10

So you really think there is a chance God would leave such a monumental and momentous part of his plan to the whims of the fickle mind if a man??

sonmvayina:
What I know about is freedom of choice. We make our own choices and live with the consequences.
The story says Judas betrayed Jesus. It's a story. Nothing more.
Does okonkwo have the slightest chance of sparing Ikemefuna's life?

Actually you THINK you have freedom of choice but it has been scientifically proven you don’t!

LordReed:
LoLz. Gosh you are terrible at this. So you don't know that each version is a fresh translation of whatever manuscripts (especially if they just found previously undiscovered manuscripts) that are available for the books? Dude, I beg you go read up on this and stop embarrassing yourself with this display of ignorance.

Do you know the practice of taking a person to a river to have his head washed in order to re-route hs destiny or remove cobwebs from his brain?

That may be the sort of thing FreeIgboho requires.

FreeIgboho:
So you really think there is a chance God would leave such a monumental and momentous part of his plan to the whims of the fickle mind if a man??

Someone will fill in the gap and such a person will be greedy so it's among those who are close to Jesus that one will choose not to put Jesus' words to good use! Matthew 7:24-27

Where Judas made himself vulnerable to Satan is failure to keep Jesus' teachings and doing it, that prophecy is for Satan who must use someone close to Jesus not Judas but the greedy guy fell for the bait!

FreeIgboho:
I asked you to give examples

Examples of what again?
Jesus told them to shun any rebellious one in their midst {Matthew 18:15-17} and the apostles taught other disciples the same thing! Romans 16:17; 2John 1:10-11

What example are you asking for?

Everyday247:
That depends on what you define as freewill

Simple: we know Judas probably tossed and turned all night b4 finally deciding to betray Jesus.
Free will is: could he have chosen not to betray Jesus?

FreeIgboho:
We're talking about people who's entire job is to document the past. They all say the same thing about the name "Jehovah". What has that to do with Israel??

You keep falling my hand!

How many historians penned down any event about Jesus (Truth) àbí there were no historians in Jesus' time?

Ọmọ God's people are no part of the world {John 17:14-16} that's under Satan's control {1John 5:19} so learn from that!

DeepSight:
It feels like we do, but I have absolutely no idea.

I have three reasons for this.

1. Spiritual. This I cannot prove. However I have from childhood experienced predictive dreams of such detail and accuracy that I cannot deny that some things about the future are set in stone already. As I said, I can't prove this to anyone. But it gives me reason to doubt our freewill.

2. Genetic. As long as it is true that we inherit certain traits, that already limits our freewill because it means that there are certain proclivities and predispositions we are born with. Like a program.

3. Cause and Effect. If the law of cause and Effect holds true, there is an unbroken line of cause and effect from the dawn of time till this very second. And that again limits what may be thought of as freewill.

Not only that, your "choice" is determined by where you were born, to whom, and circumstances you grew up in, plus the kind of brain and personality you were given - none of which was chosen by you!

FreeIgboho:
Simple: we know Judas probably tossed and turned all night b4 finally deciding to betray Jesus.
Free will is: could he have chosen not to betray Jesus?

you're asking me a religious question?

I think yes from my perspective.

FreeIgboho:
Simple: we know Judas probably tossed and turned all night b4 finally deciding to betray Jesus.
Free will is: could he have chosen not to betray Jesus?

Stop asking this faithless question!

If nobody has control over choice to do God's will then God is to blame not those who chose to be evil!

FreeIgboho:
So what is your own take? Do we have free will?
Let's also hear the take of our other discussants:
Maxindhouse, Janosky, Lordreed, DeepSight,
tctrills, Dtruthspeaker, Everyday247, Ruke1990, sonmvayina

If they don't have freewill then why are you expecting people to choose faith in what the Bible teaches?

LordReed:
If by free will you mean completely free from any influence or causal determinants then no we do not have free will. We have wills that influenced by causal determinants. This doesn't mean all our choices are predetermined but that there's a certain chance they will follow a predetermined outcome.

So how come a seer sees you standing up in a room. You go into the room and agonize whether to sit or stand but always end up standing?

FreeIgboho:
Not only that, your "choice" is determined by where you were born, to whom, and circumstances you grew up in, plus the kind of brain and personality you were given - none of which was chosen by you!

True!
That's why we have PREACHING and TEACHING to help us choose wisely.

FreeIgboho:
Not only that, your "choice" is determined by where you were born, to whom, and circumstances you grew up in, plus the kind of brain and personality you were given - none of which was chosen by you!

Doesnt this destroy your entire biblical worldview - if we have no freewill no one can be judged.

FreeIgboho:
Nope. Higher in the sense one peak of same mountain is higher than another

So stop deceiving yourself Jesus said there are TWO persons not ONE! John 17:3

DeepSight:
Doesnt this destroy your entire biblical worldview - if we have no freewill no one can be judged.

That's your I AM worshiper!

Everyday247:
I've already given my answer

It depends on what you define as freewill
Maxindhouse, Janosky, tctrills, Dtruthspeaker, Ruke1990

Not that. Here's what is being refered to:

So as not to derail the other thread from discussing its specific issue - to wit - the deliberate disemination of falsehood by Yahweh, I am interested in looking also at some of the other interesting attributes of this deity.

A key one is extreme brutality.

Genocide, and brutal injunctions to stoning to death in odd circumstances.

Start with Genocidal Commands -

Wikipedia -

Deuteronomy 7 is notable because it contains one of the most overt instances of God ordering the Israelites to commit genocide against neighboring societies.

1. When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations -- the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you --

2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons,

4 for they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods, and the LORD's anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you.

5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire. (Deut 7.1-5)

However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy them -- the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites -- as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God. (Deut 20.16ff)

Later Yahweh admonishes the Israelites for not killing each and every inhabitant in these lands.

MaxInDHouse:
You keep falling my hand!

How many historians penned down any event about Jesus (Truth) àbí there were no historians in Jesus' time?

Ọmọ God's people are no part of the world {John 17:14-16} that's under Satan's control {1John 5:19} so learn from that!

What do you call the Bible then?
What you're being told by ALL historians is that there was no Jehovah in the original manuscript. That it is a mistake added durring Mediaval times

Everyday247:
you're asking me a religious question?

I think yes from my perspective.

You really think there is a chance God would leave such a monumental and momentous part of his plan to the whims of the fickle mind of a man?

FreeIgboho:
So how come a seer sees you standing up in a room. You go into the room and agonize whether to sit or stand but always end up standing?

LoLz. What is this? This doesn't make sense to me. Is me sitting in a room supposed to be remarkable?

MaxInDHouse:
Stop asking this faithless question!

If nobody has control over choice to do God's will then God is to blame not those who chose to be evil!

There's no blame. God's plan is simply unfolding.
Once you know this you'd stop worrying, or regretting, or working too hard. You'd not be in extreme of things because there's a lot you don't know and a lot you'll never know that you never knew

LordReed:
LoLz. What is this? This doesn't make sense to me. Is me sitting in a room supposed to be remarkable?

- - -- - - - - - - - - - - >

DeepSight:
Do you know the practice of taking a person to a river to have his head washed in order to re-route hs destiny or remove cobwebs from his brain?

That may be the sort of thing FreeIgboho requires.

MaxInDHouse:
If they don't have freewill then why are you expecting people to choose faith in what the Bible teaches?

How can someone born in Saudi Arabia choose faith in what the Bible teaches?
Same way, how can you choose to be a Muslim?

FreeIgboho:
Those of you who fervently believe in FREE WILL, please educate me, was there ever the slightest chance that Judas would not betray Jesus?

old testament prophecy did not name the actor. But it states what must happen. Satan entered the fittest person. And amongst the disciples Judas was the greediest and fittest for the task. There is a bible prophecy about Cyrus a persian king who freed Israelites from slavery in Babylon. The prophesy mentioned his name clearly before he was born and the action he will carry out which is rebuilding the temple in Jerusalem. The spiritual determines the physical. But there are times, God steps in just out of mercy to deliver us from going wrong way. For example, Jesus told Peter, Satan desired you that he might sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you. That tells you satan could have liked to use Peter instead of Judas or maybe desired him to play some other bad roles but the mercy of God helped him overcome. As a person, be steadfast in loving God just like Peter physically was. That can help because God knows your heart and knows if you are sincere. Your sincerity is one thing that draws God's merciful hands to you. David killed Uriah, committed adultery but admitted his sin, cried sincerely when he was approached by the prophet and that brought mercy
Of God. God called him a man after his heart. Saul sinned against God, prophet Samuel rebuked him but he showed no remorse. Rather he rebuked the prophet for not honoring him in front of the people. That man lost it and died with out mercy. Do you know jesus warned Judas hours before the betrayal, Judas was stubborn and went ahead and that was the end. Whether there is a negative or positive prophesy or predestination, God always gives us a chance to change that negative prophecy. Everyone does get a warning before they are damned. Like you right now you have been warned about the existence of hell by countless believers but you fit harden your heart right now and still land in hell. Do you call that predestination? No. You had a chance to change the course of destiny but you did not. The bible predestination is actually about the fact that we have all been chosen destined to partake in the divine / godly nature from the foundation of the world (before Satan came). Though Adam destroyed that. But Jesus came to restore us back to this foreordained destiny that God had in mind for us all at the creation. However, only those who believes in Jesus will eventually partake of that divine nature

MaxInDHouse:
True!
That's why we have PREACHING and TEACHING to help us choose wisely.

Did you read? The type of brain and personality and all those things listed will 100% determine your choice - none of which you chose!

DeepSight:
Doesnt this destroy your entire biblical worldview - if we have no freewill no one can be judged.

Wrong. I'll give you the correct answer in due time

LordReed:
LoLz. What is this? This doesn't make sense to me. Is me sitting in a room supposed to be remarkable?

Things always end up happening how they were meant to happen.
Example, God would never have left such a momentous part of his plan to the fickle mind of Judas. Yet Judas must have tossed and turned all night trying to make a decision!

Ruke1990:
old testament prophecy did not name the actor. But it states what must happen. Satan entered the fittest person. And amongst the disciples Judas was the greediest and fittest for the task. There is a bible prophecy about Cyrus a persian king who freed Israelites from slavery in Babylon. The prophesy mentioned his name clearly before he was born and the action he will carry out which is rebuilding the temple in Jerusalem. The spiritual determines the physical. But there are times, God steps in just out of mercy to deliver us from going wrong way. For example, Jesus told Peter, Satan desired you that he might sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you. That tells you satan could have liked to use Peter instead of Judas or maybe desired him to play some other bad roles but the mercy of God helped him overcome. As a person, be steadfast in loving God just like Peter physically was. That can help because God knows your heart and knows if you are sincere. Your sincerity is one thing that draws God's merciful hands to you. David killed Uriah, committed adultery but admitted his sin, cried sincerely when he was approached by the prophet and that brought mercy
Of God. God called him a man after his heart. Saul sinned against God, prophet Samuel rebuked him but he showed no remorse. Rather he rebuked the prophet for not honoring him in front of the people. That man lost it and died with out mercy. Do you know jesus warned Judas hours before the betrayal, Judas was stubborn and went ahead and that was the end. Whether there is a negative or positive prophesy or predestination, God always gives us a chance to change that negative prophecy. Everyone does get a warning before they are damned. Like you right now you have been warned about the existence of hell by countless believers but you fit harden your heart right now and still land in hell. Do you call that predestination? No. You had a chance to change the course of destiny but you did not. The bible predestination is actually about the fact that we have all been chosen destined to partake in the divine / godly nature from the foundation of the world (before Satan came). Though Adam destroyed that. But Jesus came to restore us back to this foreordained destiny that God had in mind for us all at the creation. However, only those who believes in Jesus will eventually partake of that divine nature

And what made him the greediest person? Where he was born, to whom, circumstances he grew up in, plus the kind of brain and personality he was given - none of which was chosen by him!

FreeIgboho:
What do you call the Bible then?
What you're being told by ALL historians is that there was no Jehovah in the original manuscript. That it is a mistake added durring Mediaval times

The world doesn't support truth from time immemorial so faithful people don't follow aimless croud! Exodus 23:1-2
Those telling you that are they believers in God?
What do they conclude is God's name?
Are they organized to preach about God's Kingdom as Jesus commanded his disciples?

Ọmọ you are following a faithless croud that has evil intentions!

FreeIgboho:
There's no blame. God's plan is simply unfolding.
Once you know this you'd stop worrying, or regretting, or working too hard. You'd not be in extreme of things because there's a lot you don't know and a lot you'll never know that you never knew

So why arguing since saying people don't accept what you are saying?
Why not give up since God has destined everything?

Walahi talahi Satan nah deceiver!