₦airaland Forum

FreeIgboho:
Point is, it is predestined, and everyone MUST do what they're meant to do to have it come true. So where's the free will?

Which predestined? Who cannot predict that a woman who loves money and enjoyment too much will not be in the sex for pay business?

Is it not her freewill that took her there?

But funny how freewill disappears when it's time to pay the price eg when you are caught cheating

There's too much tendency to attribute to God the evils that man does of his own free will.
Agatha Christie

Dtruthspeaker:
You have to ask the seer not me!

Things unfold exactly the way they are meant to unfold, though it seems to us 100% it'd have happened a different way but for us!

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ human life starts with Adam and Eve before Adam and Eve there was no human or life existing in any form that later became Adam.

That's what the Bible teaches!

So how does this your view fit in below:

Isaiah 64:
"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee"
And
Ephesians 1:4, "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world"

FreeIgboho:
Poor guy. Still trying to fight a fought and won battle. I guess no one ever told you of
Ephesians 2:
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

The highlighted shows you what Paul is saying!

We must be saved through WORKS but is it the works of self righteousness or that of the Mosaic laws?

The answer is "NO"

So through which works are we to be saved?

By the WORKS Jesus commissioned due to the undeserved kindness of God who gave us His only begotten Son to lay his life down for us to learn from him. John 3:16

This means if Jesus never engaged in the preaching and teaching that could save humans from our sins Satan won't gather enemies from among his own people against him. So it's the teachings that Jesus laid down that's going to save us and it's only those exercising faith in that teaching that will be saved.

So it's not just by saying "I believe in God or Jesus" that will save anyone {James 2:19-20} rather it's by WORKING in line with Jesus' teachings with faith that you are on the path that leads to everlasting life! Matthew 7:21-23

Dtruthspeaker:
Which predestined? Who cannot predict that a woman who loves money and enjoyment too much will not be in the sex for pay business?

Is it not her freewill that took her there?

But funny how freewill disappears when it's time to pay the price eg when you are caught cheating

There's too much tendency to attribute to God the evils that man does of his own free will.
Agatha Christie

Of course I don't know, but it'd SEEM to me human free will is an illusion though we'd swear we have free will - same way AI will swear it has free will yet we know AI is not even alive!

FreeIgboho:
Still using the mistaken name which is meant to mean "I Am".
You say Jesus is sinless. So you don’t believe he's good?
Use your head sometimes my GOOD man!

Who taught him how to be sinless among humans?

Come on man, if Jesus didn't follow strict guidance from his father surely Satan is ready to make him sin.
So Jesus is giving the credit to the one who taught him!

FreeIgboho:
So how does this your view fit in below:

Isaiah 64:
"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee"
And
Ephesians 1:4, "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world"

Knew the person as what?
Chosen in this context means those who falls in the category of faith in Christ Jesus that's what God foreordained before this world of evildoers exist not before creation.

Note that Satan is the God of this world {2Corinthians 4:4} doesn't mean he is the Creator rather the world of wicked people and unbelievers! John 17:14-16

FreeIgboho:
Of course I don't know, but it'd SEEM to me human free will is an illusion though we'd swear we have free will - same way AI will swear it has free will yet we know AI is not even alive!

Are you not typing out of your freewill? No one forces you to type and that is why you say whatever you want to say in your freewill. But A.I is just an a seemingly better Google library search robot. A robotic slave created to serve human beings and that is why it must answer you whenever you call. But you Mr freewill have often exercise your freewill to be disobedient.

So, please stop all these rubbish talks

FreeIgboho:
We don't have "a god" in Christianity. We only have one God and Jesus is an incarnation of that one God.
Use your head sometimes. This is someone they just accused of claiming to be God

Don't change the subject with inanities. Is the Jesus dishonest because he purportedly said nobody is good except the god?

Maximus692:
The highlighted shows you what Paul is saying!

We must be saved through WORKS but is it the works of self righteousness or that of the Mosaic laws?

The answer is "NO"

So through which works are we to be saved?

By the WORKS Jesus commissioned due to the undeserved kindness of God who gave us His only begotten Son to lay his life down for us to learn from him. John 3:16

This means if Jesus never engaged in the preaching and teaching that could save humans from our sins Satan won't gather enemies from among his own people against him. So it's the teachings that Jesus laid down that's going to save us and it's only those exercising faith in that teaching that will be saved.

So it's not just by saying "I believe in God or Jesus" that will save anyone {James 2:19-20} rather it's by WORKING in line with Jesus' teachings with faith that you are on the path that leads to everlasting life! Matthew 7:21-23

Did you actually read the quotation? How does it agree with what you wrote above? And how about the robber at the cross.
See, just because it makes sense to you that things be a certain way doesn't mean they are that way. God is NOT man!

Maximus692:
Who taught him how to be sinless among humans?

Come on man, if Jesus didn't follow strict guidance from his father surely Satan is ready to make him sin.
So Jesus is giving the credit to the one who taught him!

You were asked a simple question. Is Jesus good or not?

Maximus692:
Knew the person as what?
Chosen in this context means those who falls in the category of faith in Christ Jesus that's what God foreordained before this world of evildoers exist not before creation.

Note that Satan is the God of this world {2Corinthians 4:4} doesn't mean he is the Creator rather the world of wicked people and unbelievers! John 17:14-16

Meaning life doesn't begin here. Which will explain a lot of things. I mean, how can God hate Esau from birth unless something happened before birth. Same way, that you were born in Nigeria is not happenstance!

FreeIgboho:
And how about the robber at the cross.

Two criminals impaled beside Jesus, one was desperate to escape from punishment while the other was honestly considering what brought Jesus to this same condition with them.

So by the end the day the one thinking about what brought Jesus there remember what they have been taught by their religious leaders that the Christ will be executed along with criminals! Isaiah 53:12

With that he told Jesus:

“Jesus, remember me when you get into your Kingdom.” Luke 23:42

What this means is that this dying man is willing to accept Jesus as King over him despite the condition Jesus is at the moment.

Ọmọ that's a great faith people like you can never ever have!

FreeIgboho:
You were asked a simple question. Is Jesus good or not?

Do you believe Jesus?
Why ask me if Jesus has answered?

Ọmọ Jesus said it's his teacher that is good which means anyone could do the same if they are willing to be taught by the same teacher.

So it's the teacher that's GOOD not His student!

FreeIgboho:
Meaning life doesn't begin here. Which will explain a lot of things. I mean, how can God hate Esau from birth unless something happened before birth. Same way, that you were born in Nigeria is not happenstance!

God hates Esau because he will not be loyal to the spiritual heritage of the family.

I was the chosen one out of six children because my own father was a politician so whenever a child is born their group used to call a sorcerer who will look into the child's future to know if the child will be loyal and as a child i was chosen to continue with my father's political career. I'm telling you this to know what is happening in the world of politics.

Though i grew up to be what the sorcerer saw about baby Max but when i grew older i chose to be loyal to the true God and not Satan the god of politics, this made my father cry bitterly because he felt his journey as a politician has ended because the child chosen by their Oracle refused to be a politician rather he is loyally preaching and teaching about God's Kingdom!

So i know exactly what you are trying to say but it's not what you think even Satan knows what a child will become when he grows up as both God and Satan are interested in anyone who will be 100% loyal to them. It's the loyalty aspect that God knows perfectly but as for to whom the child will be loyal depends on the child that's where FREEWILL plays it's role!

FreeIgboho:
Actually you THINK you have freedom of choice but it has been scientifically proven you don’t!

Scientific?

I don't understand. I can choose to do what I want to do. Who is stopping me?

sonmvayina:
Scientific?

I don't understand. I can choose to do what I want to do. Who is stopping me?

1. Genetics. 2. Circumstances. 3. Causal chains. 4. Capacity.

LordReed:
Don't change the subject with inanities. Is the Jesus dishonest because he purportedly said nobody is good except the god?

I answer you with a question, was he lying when he said he and the Father are one, and when you see him you've seen the Father?

And is he lying here?

John 10
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

sonmvayina:
Scientific?

I don't understand. I can choose to do what I want to do. Who is stopping me?

AI can also be designed to be sure 100% it has free will. But there'd be all sorts of evidence it doesn't. My take is, the mere fact humans can suspect freewill is an illusion likely means free will is an illusion, because they'd have been designed to never, never suspect they don't have freewill.

FreeIgboho:
I answer you with a question, was he lying when he said he and the Father are one, and when you see him you've seen the Father?

And is he lying here?

John 10
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

Oga answer my question stop trying to change the subject.

Dtruthspeaker:
Are you not typing out of your freewill? No one forces you to type and that is why you say whatever you want to say in your freewill. But A.I is just an a seemingly better Google library search robot. A robotic slave created to serve human beings and that is why it must answer you whenever you call. But you Mr freewill have often exercise your freewill to be disobedient.

So, please stop all these rubbish talks

But that's from your perspective not from the AI's perspective. AI can also be designed to be 100% sure it has free will. But if it pays close attention there'd be subtle signs it doesn't. My take is, the fact humans can suspect their freewill is an illusion likely means it is, because they must have been designed to never, never suspect they actually don't have freewill.

FreeIgboho:
But that's from your perspective not from the AI's perspective. AI can also be designed to be 100% sure it has free will. ..

Stop making St**** arguments a 4yr old would say and adults would hiss and nearly insult the child because of his apparent intelligence deficiency. And I do not have patience for adults who argue like toddlers.

A robot does not have perspective because we created it as your statement in bold clearly shows. And we are talking about things that we did not create.

So if you do not have any intelligent thing to say, then it is good you keep quiet

LordReed:
Oga answer my question stop trying to change the subject.

I'm just trying to show you that "good" is NOT what you think it means. Besides, where does it say that "good" precludes one from being God. God Son of God is an incarnation of the Father, but is not the Father!

Dtruthspeaker:
Stop making St**** arguments a 4yr old would say and adults would hiss and nearly insult the child because of his apparent intelligence deficiency. And I do not have patience for adults who argue like toddlers.

A robot does not have perspective because we created it as your statement in bold clearly shows. And we are talking about things that we did not create.

So if you do not have any intelligent thing to say, then it is good you keep quiet

So nobody created you?
The same way you can create AI and make it think it has free will, who creates you can also make you think you have free will, and in such a way you'd never, ever suspect you don't!
I'd give example with simulation theory. If this our reality were a simulation whoever designed it would make sure we'd never suspect it is a simulation. Infact it'd seem so absurd. But the telltale sign is that nothing can go faster than the speed of light - likely the speed of the "processor". Same also with freewill, one telltale sign is that things can be prophesied and foretold! Another is addictions!

FreeIgboho:
So nobody created you?
The same way you can create AI and make it think it has free will, who creates you can also make you think you have free will, and in such a way you'd never, ever suspect you don't!...

And this is where you see that if you refer to you and I as A.i, then it is we A.Is who are talking. And not God our Creator.

So, let if the robot A.I can speak, let it speak it's fellow robot.

And if you human choose to exercise your freewill and stoop so low to start speaking to your paper, shoes mannequins, it's your business. However, we humans know that that means you are going ma* and you deserve to be dropped to the level of your shoes and stuff.

FreeIgboho:
I answer you with a question, was he lying when he said he and the Father are one, and when you see him you've seen the Father?

And is he lying here?

John 10
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

The highlighted proves that Jesus existed in heaven before his earthly life as one of the spirit sons of God under the control of God in heaven these ones are also Gods because they can't grow old or die that's exactly what the Jews are saying if Jesus claim to exist before Abraham then he must be one of those Gods! Psalms 82:1, 6

Those rebellious Jews actually wanted him killed but Jesus' statement here shows his origin as one of those called Gods (angels)

FreeIgboho:
I'm just trying to show you that "good" is NOT what you think it means. Besides, where does it say that "good" precludes one from being God. God Son of God is an incarnation of the Father, but is not the Father!

Oga you can keep trying to dodge while I wait for you to answer the question.

Maximus692:
Jesus is not God incarnate rather he was given orders on what to do that's why he said:

“Why do you call me good? Nobody is good except one, God" Luke 18:19

His thoughts, words and actions were like SCRIPTED as given to him by his SUPERIOR whom he doesn't want to displease! John 5:30

I told you Jesus in his prehuman existence wasn't such a gentleman he acted just as his father taught him in his real self none of those rubbish they did to him could have gone without those people paying dearly for their errors but because he was given a role to play that's why he told that man:

"I'm not good o, it's my father's attributes you are seeing in me not my very self" Luke 18:19

Now you are just blatantly putting words into Jesus' mouth👀 to fit your narratives.

Have you not considered that Jesus referencing that only God is good is because the men called him good and for him to be good then he must be God? Likewise he tested their faith in him by making them realize he is God!

Stop with all this cheap scripts, you will do better selling mango than deceiving anyone with this!

Gabrielshow24:
You will do better selling mango than deceiving anyone with this!

I have many Bible students in my neighbourhood longing to see me knock on their door for a Bible study with me.

But that's audio because you can't see them here yet there is evidence on this very forum:

Nnamdipapa:
Max, do not descend to the levels of these people, and never let them get to you. I have noticed your interactions on NL for years and I see emotional maturity and the way you carry yourself, I have yet to see in the average Pentecostal Christian.

Sirmwill:
I am not a Jehovah Witness person
I am not even a church person
But
I can tell you ,you are saying a lot of truth but
Most people would not accept
So
Don't bother yourself much with arguments 😇

DoctorAyukebot:
You know your scriptures

Mayflowa:
Wow! See Bible scholars! So impressive!

SeniorMan715:
The way you explain and answer questions, sometimes i wonder if truly you are a human or an angel. You know everything.

IykeSent:
This is a deep and insightful explanation of Hebrews 1:5, showing how Jesus is uniquely God's Son not just another angel. I especially liked the connection to the temple and the idea of spiritual sonship through being “born again.God bless you for this

Questionnaires:
You Are One of The Smartest Christians on Nairaland and in Nigeria At Large.

Tayorshd87:
Awesome input 💯
That's true logically

Kingsempires:
I know you and I don't agree on the same christain doctrine but I grab point in some of your preaching
I learned something on this your comment

Questionnaires:
MAXINDHOUSE is The Only Reasonable Christian That I've Come Across On This Forum That Creates Discourse And Debates Without Trying To Hurt The Emotions of Others No Matter How They Don't Agree With His Philosophy.

CJStarz:
Guy, I just dey reason your talks.
U dey make sense shaaa.
But ur oda brethren wey dey yarn opata here, I go soon reason im matter.
You're trying to prove me wrong in my assertion which I'm beginning to see but that guy is a complete wacko.
Wetin be im name here sef.
Let me check

CJStarz:
Na you wey just convert from Islam be d correct Witness.
Achorlady just dey yarn off point

naturefellow:
Amazing! Thanks for the input. Knowledge added reading it.

Treborblue:
Wow insightful thanks very much

shinaola21:
Perfectly said bro 💯

Sojourner2000:
For real... It's hard answering this when I know for sure that the God we are referring to is just an illusion that most humans chose to accept as a reality.
Anyways I wanted to commend you for the hard facts you have been dropping and how you have been tackling responses. I need people like this in real life. Everyone around me is just dumbed down

Go and convince all these people that Max shouldn't be discussing God's word!

Dtruthspeaker:
And this is where you see that if you refer to you and I as A.i, then it is we A.Is who are talking. And not God our Creator.

So, let if the robot A.I can speak, let it speak it's fellow robot.

And if you human choose to exercise your freewill and stoop so low to start speaking to your paper, shoes mannequins, it's your business. However, we humans know that that means you are going ma* and you deserve to be dropped to the level of your shoes and stuff.

My friend, you don't know what this our reality is, where it is, or if it even exists as you perceive it. All you know is you find yourself here and all of a sudden you're an expert on consciousness. Do you know it has been determined that AI will one day develop consciousness, which is why there is fear it will one day get rid of man as a very antiquated and inefficient system, which could happen within the next 30 years! See it below.
A telltale sign that free will is an illusion is - how can freewill coexist with being able to prophesy or foretell the future with accuracy? I don't know, but that's a question that needs answer, just like why must nothing go faster than the speed of light?

LordReed:
Oga you can keep trying to dodge while I wait for you to answer the question.

I've already answered your question. Geez!
Just because only the Father is "good" does not mean only the Father is God. Jesus was an incarnation of God on earth, and the type of "good" we're talking about is attributable only to the Father

FreeIgboho:
I've already answered your question. Geez!
Just because only the Father is "good" does not mean only the Father is God. Jesus was an incarnation of God on earth, and the type of "good" we're talking about is attributable only to the Father

That does not answer the question I asked you. The question again: Is the Jesus dishonest because he purportedly said nobody is good except the god?