₦airaland Forum

Did Jesus die for our sins?

1. let's start with the obvious. Who was there? Christians love to say, Jesus died for our sins, but ask yourself, who witnessed this? Nobody alive today existed back then. Everything people believe is based on what someone else said, not what they saw.
And the earliest gospel, Mark, was written 40 plus years after Jesus supposedly died. By people who never met him. So we're not talking about history. We're talking about hearsay, passed off as fact.

2. let's use the Bible against itself. If Jesus died for your sins, then, why do you still suffer? Why do you still get punished? Why do you still need to tithe, pray, obey, and repent? That sounds more like a contract than a sacrifice. And remember this verse, Faith without works is dead, James 2, 17. That means if you don't act, nothing happens. So it's not Jesus making it happen. It's you.

3.That means you're more powerful than Jesus. Think about it. If you have to believe in Jesus to activate what he did, and if nothing works unless you put your faith in it, then that means your belief is what's creating the result, not Jesus. You're the plug. You're the energy source. You're the one making it real. In your mind.

4.You manifested Jesus into existence in your head. We were programmed to believe that God is outside of us. That Jesus is the only path. That our salvation depends on worship, not understanding. But here's the truth. You've never seen Jesus. You've never seen God. You were told about them, and your mind accepted it. That's not truth. That's mental programming. The human mind is so powerful, it can manifest belief into illusion.

5. Imagine you turned that belief toward yourself. If you believed in you, the way you believe in Jesus, you'd heal, you'd grow, you'd transform, you'd unlock your true spiritual power. That's why they gave you a savior. So you'd never realize you already are one.

6.Even the Bible accidentally told you the truth. Jesus said, the kingdom of God is within you. But nobody preaches that part. Because if you found the kingdom inside yourself, you'd stop looking for it in churches, crosses, and colonizer books. Step seven, Christianity is built on blind following. We don't study, we believe. We don't ask, we repeat. We pay pastors to read a book we're too afraid to question. And those pastors, also lost. The blind leading the blind, literally. And we call that faith. And we call that faith. When really, it's mental slavery disguised as salvation.

Final truth, Jesus didn't die for your sins. You were told that story so you'd never question your chains. But once you wake up, you'll realize the power is you. The kingdom is you, The savior is you, Awakening truth. If they need your belief to exist, they're not gods, you are.

Credits-Didyouknow2431-Tiktok

Nnamdipapa:
Did Jesus die for our sins?

The Bible said he did!

But how can a man die for the sin of the whole world?
What effect did his death have on people globally?
Where is the benefit of his death if we are to be fully convinced?

These are the questions we need to find answers to because billions out there already believe Jesus died for their sin!

The concept of sin is nonsense in the first place seeing as morality isn't objective and is highly influenced by socio - cultural factors. Sin is just the typical subjective and religious concept/construct people pretend is some objective thing everyone has to adhere to. No one died for any sins, an apocalyptic prophet was killed like a common criminal, something his followers were not expecting as this didn't resonate with the messiah they looked forward to. So they carried out one of the biggest retcons in history by negotaing and reinterpreting the actual events to somewhat fit the narrative they were expecting.

MaxInDHouse:
The Bible said he did!

But how can a man die for the sin of the whole world?
What effect did his death have on people globally?
Where is the benefit of his death if we are to be fully convinced?

These are the questions we need to find answers to because billions out there already believe Jesus died for their sin!

I do not agree with the Bible which was written by men with limited knowledge. I also do no think the Bible is relevant in 2025 as it is riddled by inconsistencies and have been recycled countless times. This is not a direct attack on Christianity from me as I have the same opinion about organized religion.

Lucifyre:
The concept of sin is nonsense in the first place seeing as morality isn't objective and is highly influenced by socio - cultural factors. Sin is just the typical subjective and religious concept/construct people pretend is some objective thing everyone has to adhere to. No one died for any sins, an apocalyptic prophet was killed like a common criminal, something his followers were not expecting as this didn't resonate with the messiah they looked forward to. So they carried out one of the biggest retcons in history by negotaing and reinterpreting the actual events to somewhat fit the narrative they were expecting.

The concept of sin is to make people feel constantly guilty and easy to control and manipulate therefore creating a need for the product being sold by religion, God!

Nnamdipapa:
✓ The concept of sin is to make people feel constantly guilty and easy to control and manipulate therefore creating a need for the product being sold by religion, God!

You are referring to the concept of sin, according to the religion of Christianity, right? And not necessarily the idea presented in the book of Israelite Scriptures which point out sin as the violation or breaking of legal codes handed down by the God of Israel to His chosen people, the children of Israel?

Nnamdipapa:
Did Jesus die for our sins?

1. let's start with the obvious. Who was there? Christians love to say, Jesus died for our sins, but ask yourself, who witnessed this? Nobody alive today existed back then. Everything people believe is based on what someone else said, not what they saw.
...

After seeing the bold clearly one can understand that these people are on colozonia

Nnamdipapa:
I do not agree with the Bible which was written by men with limited knowledge[b]. I also do no think the Bible is relevant in 2025[/b] as it is riddled by inconsistencies and have been recycled countless times. This is not a direct attack on Christianity from me as I have the same opinion about organized religion.

What is going on today? Is there a disease in the air that is making adults atheists talk like 4yr olds?

After all your years on earth is it not books written by men with limited knowledge that you have been reading and using to grow?

And the both statement are even change of Posts. The topic is not whether you agree with the bible nor whether the bible is relevant.

Nnamdipapa:
I do not agree with the Bible which was written by men with limited knowledge. I also do no think the Bible is relevant in 2025 as it is riddled by inconsistencies and have been recycled countless times. This is not a direct attack on Christianity from me as I have the same opinion about organized religion.

The highlighted shows you have a lot in your mind about the book but it's really hard to convince people against a book that's loved by billions around you.
Well i totally agree with the Bible and i'm convinced that the writers are not the Author rather a person with infinite knowledge and wisdom orchestrated the writing of that book!

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted shows you have a lot in your mind about the book but it's really hard to convince people against a book that's loved by billions around you.
Well i totally agree with the Bible and i'm convinced that the writers are not the Author rather a person with infinite knowledge and wisdom orchestrated the writing of that book!

I read the book for 20 years and a good student of church history.

Nnamdipapa:
I read the book for 20 years and a good student of church history.

The highlighted says it all!

You are a GOOD STUDENT of church history not a student of the Bible.

To illustrate think of someone who goes to a restaurant always to observe how the chef prepare meals, he looks at the way the chef cuts the meat and other ingredients and the way he cooks the meals but never sat down to eat the meal. Then while some customers are discussing about how they enjoy the meals he said:

"There is nothing special in these meals"

Do you think he has any point?

Nnamdipapa:
The concept of sin is to make people feel constantly guilty and easy to control and manipulate therefore creating a need for the product being sold by religion, God!

Apt, though I'd say it didn't start that way. Ignorance breeds fear and fear breeds superstition which some realized they could weaponize for control.

Nnamdipapa:
2. let's use the Bible against itself. If Jesus died for your sins, then, why do you still suffer? Why do you still get punished? Why do you still need to tithe, pray, obey, and repent? That sounds more like a contract than a sacrifice. And remember this verse, Faith without works is dead, James 2, 17. That means if you don't act, nothing happens. So it's not Jesus making it happen. It's you.

This is culled from a religiously f-cked mind and nothing of the Bible, abeg! How can one claim to use the Bible against itself when nothing of what one then proceeds to argue is recorded in the Bible? 🙄🙄🙄

The Bible does not posit any of the following:
1. That Jesus Christ of Israel's sacrifice amounts to the absence of suffering for the people: Jesus Christ of Israel promised His followers at the time that they would suffer tribulation, in addition to that which He did.
2. That Jesus Christ of Israel commanded His followers to pay tithe: Not once did Jesus Christ of Israel command His followers to pay tithe or give offerings to Him or any gods of men. He instead commanded them to give only to the poor.
3. That the need for prayer, obedience, and repentance is taken away the moment one repents — adopts the new legal code offered to Israelites in place of the Old Law of Moses(the former legal code under which all Israelites are born): Obedience, Prayer, and Repentance remain requirements in the New Legal Code that is Jesus Christ of Israel.

Nnamdipapa:
You manifested Jesus into existence in your head. We were programmed to believe that God is outside of us. That Jesus is the only path. That our salvation depends on worship, not understanding. But here's the truth. You've never seen Jesus. You've never seen God. You were told about them, and your mind accepted it. That's not truth. That's mental programming. The human mind is so powerful, it can manifest belief into illusion.

Whoever wrote this is himself struggling with his own set of religious delusions aka mental programming, abeg!

Nnamdipapa:
I do not agree with the Bible which was written by men with limited knowledge. I also do no think the Bible is relevant in 2025 as it is riddled by inconsistencies and have been recycled countless times. This is not a direct attack on Christianity from me as I have the same opinion about organized religion.

So if, different people in different timelines over 2000 years write the same thing about a person, these people never met each other or sometimes didn't even know a out previous revelation.

Yet what they said about this person is constant and non contradictory. Don't U think what they saying has to be the truth

Lucifyre:
The concept of sin is nonsense in the first place seeing as morality isn't objective and is highly influenced by socio - cultural factors.

Sin is simply separation of man from God. All your shalaye is unnecessary. Whatever u do that makes u separate from God is a sin

Lucifyre:
Sin is just the typical subjective and religious concept/construct people pretend is some objective thing everyone has to adhere to. No one died for any sins, an apocalyptic prophet was killed like a common criminal, something his followers[b] were not expecting as this didn't resonate with the messiah they looked forward to. So they carried out one of the biggest retcons in history by negotaing and reinterpreting the actual events to somewhat fit the narrative they were expecting. [/b]

Isaiah 53 SAYS YOU ARE WRONG.

Go and read about Messiah Ben Joseph called suffering Messiah.

There are no moral codes defined in all of the books of Israelite Scripture. Rather, there is sin, which refers to the disobedience of the individual codes contained in the legal code upon which the nations belonging to YHWH, God of Israel(and the Kingdom of God) are established.

A legal code is a comprehensive, systematically arranged collection of laws, rules, or regulations, typically organized by subject matter, that govern a specific jurisdiction or area of law. It serves as the codified body of law for a nation, state, or other legal entity.

His nation of Israel is governed by the Law of Moses, a Legal code which He gave to the children of Israel in the land of Canaan, while the Kingdom of God is governed by the Gospel, the legal code, and truth, which is Jesus Christ of Israel.

SIRTee15:
So if, different people in different timelines over 2000 years write the same thing about a person, these people never met each other or sometimes didn't even know a out previous revelation.

Yet what they said about this person is constant and non contradictory. Don't U think what they saying has to be the truth

It means they were not eye witnesses and merely retelling stories. So we cannot claim any part of the Bible as facts.

Kobojunkieee:
Whoever wrote this is himself struggling with his own set of religious delusions aka mental programming, abeg!

Forget who wrote and lets see your opinion about the article.

Nnamdipapa:
➜Forget who wrote and lets see your opinion about the article.

The entire writeup reads more like a religion-fueled tirade against doctrines connected to the religion of Christianity than it is an actual attack against the Bible or the person of Jesus Christ of Israel and His Father, YHWH of Israel. There really isn't much one can do with that except point out what it, in fact, is.

Nnamdipapa:
It means they were not eye witnesses and merely retelling stories. So we cannot claim any part of the Bible as facts.

The are not repeating same revelation. They are giving different revelation about same person.

Now when we go thru the different revelations revealed over 2 thousand years period, we find no
contradiction or conflicting messages in them.

If this is the case, dont U think the revelations are true?

SIRTee15:
The are not repeating same revelation. They are giving different revelation about same person.

Now when we go thru the different revelations revealed over 2 thousand years period, we find no
contradiction or conflicting messages in them.

If this is the case, dont U think the revelations are true?

Are you kidding me? There are thousands of contradictions in the Bible.

Nnamdipapa:
Are you kidding me? There are thousands of contradictions in the Bible.

That's because you only READ not STUDY the book, there is no contradiction!

SIRTee15:
Sin is simply separation of man from God. All your shalaye is unnecessary. Whatever u do that makes u separate from God is a sin.

Uhmm ok?! 😒 That changes literally nothing I said, this is besides the fact, your bible literally states that nowhere. Basically a new age invented interpretation to combat the ludicrousness and absurdity of the fictional hell. Guess the god who seemingly doesn't change, gave this new pov recently.

SIRTee15:
Isaiah 53 SAYS YOU ARE WRONG.

Go and read about Messiah Ben Joseph called suffering Messiah.

Yeah... No. This is one of xtainity's biggest retcons by renegotiating and reinterpreting the text to fit a narrative thousands of years l8r by non-contemporary sources. Isaiah 53 clearly refers to Isreal as the servant, like all the preceding chapters before it in context. The funny thing is even in the whole book of Isaiah, the only time the hebrew word for messaiah is mentioned, it's referring to the persian king Cyprus. Not only does the servant in Isaiah 53 not die for anyone's sin(he repents of sin), he also dies multiple times and has physical children. Didn't know Jesus had physical children.

MaxInDHouse:
That's because you only READ not STUDY the book, there is no contradiction!

A book written by illiterate goat herders in the middle ages, recycled by Europeans for domination and mind control?

Nnamdipapa:
A book written by illiterate goat herders in the middle ages, recycled by Europeans for domination and mind control?

If a white man comes to your own place, stole some of the items in your ancestral shrine and began using it for his selfish ambitions does that makes your heritage evil or does that makes your ancestors unworthy to emulate?

Come on my guy, the Bible doesn't belong to Europeans neither are those of ancient times unworthy to emulate for wisdom!

Nnamdipapa:
Did Jesus die for our sins?

1. let's start with the obvious. Who was there? Christians love to say, Jesus died for our sins, but ask yourself, who witnessed this? Nobody alive today existed back then. Everything people believe is based on what someone else said, not what they saw.
And the earliest gospel, Mark, was written 40 plus years after Jesus supposedly died. By people who never met him. So we're not talking about history. We're talking about hearsay, passed off as fact.

40 years after Jesus died was well withing or closely after the eyewitness time. Do you even know when John died?
Are you serious in asking for people today to witness what happened over 2000 years ago?

2. let's use the Bible against itself. If Jesus died for your sins, then, why do you still suffer? Why do you still get punished? Why do you still need to tithe, pray, obey, and repent? That sounds more like a contract than a sacrifice. And remember this verse, Faith without works is dead, James 2, 17. That means if you don't act, nothing happens. So it's not Jesus making it happen. It's you.

The purpose of Jesus is not for you to have all you want neither does it mean you don't suffer or have to work again.

3.That means you're more powerful than Jesus. Think about it. If you have to believe in Jesus to activate what he did, and if nothing works unless you put your faith in it, then that means your belief is what's creating the result, not Jesus. You're the plug. You're the energy source. You're the one making it real. In your mind.

faith in Jesus is not to get things working in your life, I don't know where you get that.

4.You manifested Jesus into existence in your head. We were programmed to believe that God is outside of us. That Jesus is the only path. That our salvation depends on worship, not understanding. But here's the truth. You've never seen Jesus. You've never seen God. You were told about them, and your mind accepted it. That's not truth. That's mental programming. The human mind is so powerful, it can manifest belief into illusion.

Did you see the Nigerian Civil War? Yet you believe it happened. You are not making sense

5. Imagine you turned that belief toward yourself. If you believed in you, the way you believe in Jesus, you'd heal, you'd grow, you'd transform, you'd unlock your true spiritual power. That's why they gave you a savior. So you'd never realize you already are one.

Jesus provided evidence that he is the saviour with the way he lived, died and rose from the grave, with don't need to do anything for Jesus to be who he is.
I suspect you think you are god or something like that which is easily dismissed because God is not creation neither can creation be God.

6.Even the Bible accidentally told you the truth. Jesus said, the kingdom of God is within you. But nobody preaches that part. Because if you found the kingdom inside yourself, you'd stop looking for it in churches, crosses, and colonizer books. Step seven, Christianity is built on blind following. We don't study, we believe. We don't ask, we repeat. We pay pastors to read a book we're too afraid to question. And those pastors, also lost. The blind leading the blind, literally. And we call that faith. And we call that faith. When really, it's mental slavery disguised as salvation.

When Jesus said the kingdom of God is withing you Jesus was talking to a group of persons called the pharisee who were still waiting for the kingdom, Jesus told them that kingdom was already in their midst, the kingdom was what Jesus himself was preaching in their midst. Read to context

Final truth, Jesus didn't die for your sins. You were told that story so you'd never question your chains. But once you wake up, you'll realize the power is you. The kingdom is you, The savior is you, Awakening truth. If they need your belief to exist, they're not gods, you are.

Credits-Didyouknow2431-Tiktok

If you need to save yourself, it means you are an imperfect human and hence cannot save himself neither others hence you are contradicting yourself.

Lucifyre:
Uhmm ok?! 😒 That changes literally nothing I said, this is besides the fact, your bible literally states that nowhere. Basically a new age invented interpretation to combat the ludicrousness and absurdity of the fictional hell. Guess the god who seemingly doesn't change, gave this new pov recently.

Isaiah 59

Surely the arm of the Lord is not too short to save,
nor his ear too dull to hear.
2 But your iniquities have separated
you from your God;

Christianity is not a made up religion. We have the scriptures as evidence of our belief.

If I want to define sin as something else, that's up to u.
God makes it clear what sin is.

Lucifyre:
Yeah... No. This is one of xtainity's biggest retcons by renegotiating and reinterpreting the text to fit a narrative thousands of years l8r by non-contemporary sources. Isaiah 53 clearly refers to Isreal as the servant, like all the preceding chapters before it in context. The funny thing is even in the whole book of Isaiah, the only time the hebrew word for messaiah is mentioned, it's referring to the persian king Cyprus. Not only does the servant in Isaiah 53 not die for anyone's sin(he repents of sin), he also dies multiple times and has physical children. Didn't know Jesus had physical children.

Ancient Jewish Rabbi says you are wrong.

None of them believed Isaiah 53 is about Israel until 1000AD. For 1700 years after book of Isaiah was written, Jewish Rabbi and literature believed Isaiah 53 is about the Messiah.

Try harder. U can reject the truth but u can't deny evidence.

[quote author=SIRTee15 post=136068307][/quote]Typical circular reasoning, unverifiable belief, and selective readings which, ironically, all back up my point. Quoting Isaiah 59:2 and then using that to define sin as “separation from God” is laughable. What kind of tautology is that? It’s like saying: “Mosquitoes cause malaria, therefore malaria is a mosquito.” lol! Not that I care anyway, you can define it however you want. It still doesn't change the fact of what I said about what it is, which is why it's applied nowhere else except in religious contexts, thankfully.

Then next, you drop a chart from an unverified, anonymous source (likely lifted from an apologetics site) and call it “evidence,” even though it shows what I’ve said from the start: basically a non-unified, inconsistent, and evolving interpretive tradition — the typical and massive retcon. Even the idea that "no Jew interpreted Isaiah 53 as Israel until 1000 AD" is a popular fat Christian lie that is verifiably false as scholars like John Collins, Mark Smith, Adele Berlin, James Kugel and Fishbane amongst many other scholars - some of which are even xtain - document.

Your source which expectedly shall not be named, shows rabbis as much as xtains disagreeing about whether the servant is Israel, a prophet, the messiah, or someone else entirely, with the dominant view being Israel. So how does that confirm divine clarity? Again tour very own source shows absolutely none of them — zero, zilch, nada — expecting the messiah to be crucified, resurrected, dieing for sins or that it's Jesus. Didn’t your own scriptures say “God is not the author of confusion”? Because what you're citing is pure biblical confusion.

So your weak attempt at a bait-and-switch is a task failed successfully. Even your chart never names Jesus, just like Isaiah 53 doesn’t. But “servant” is clearly and repeatedly named as Israel in Isaiah Ch 41–49: “But you, Israel, my servant.” So for Isaiah 53 to suddenly shift to a Jesus who is named nowhere, not even in the Hebrew Bible as a whole, is the exact type of massive retcon of selectively applying and discarding the text in a subjective manner to renegotiate and reinterpret it only xtainity and its numerous denoms are capable of.

No surprise then that you guys can’t even agree on what you call “truth” or “evidence,” which is quite laughable for something supposedly divinely revealed. Truth must be objective, verifiable, observable, demonstrable, and falsifiable. Truth is truth regardless of belief or acceptance. None of these apply to your joke called “truth,” which is why it’s not widely accepted the world over as the truth and luckily never will be.

There’s only one standard of truth accepted regardless of race, location, belief, acceptance, culture, etc. Christianity will factually never be it, except all xtains can objectively agree which would obviously never happen. So instead of performing mystical dodges, why not show us:

Where Jesus is mentioned by name as the messiah anywhere,

Or Jesus’ children, according to Isaiah 53:10,

Or where he repents of sin,

Or where he dies multiple times?

Or is he scared of dying multiple times to fulfill his other failed prophecy about his return? 😂

Surely, you'd be able to point out these things easily from Isaiah 53 if it’s not the typical Christian selective renegotiating retcon. Typical circus act, Tick tock.

A religion founded on human sacrifice....
An abomination in the sight of the creator of all.
The idea of vicarious atonement is absurd.
Every man must bear his sin and its consequences.
The prophets echoed it....

Why would a God who abhores and forbid murder of any kind, ask for a human sacrifice? Thou shall not kill, he says.
Out of our strong heartedness he approve animal sacrifice....but the animal must be blameless.
What he actually desires is a broken spirit. He would not spurn.

Human sacrifice is a pagan practice. And j.man did not qualify as a kosher animal.


Come to your creator with a contrite heart and a broken spirit....he will forgive.

The idea